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glenerson
03-29-2013, 10:05 PM
Life is basically the Great Work.

That is if you believe that the state prior to your birth is Singularity with God and the state after your death is Singularity with God

If you believe that this is so, then you've done the Coagula part.

When we're born, we're separated from this singularity. Our spirits are captured by time to be of matter temporarily. So we did the Solve part.

But we're not aware that we did it, for we're trapped within creation. And we're ignorant of the existence of God. Or we deny that God exists. We even equate God with creation and if we do so, we still did not do the Solve part.

But there are people that are aware that God exists outside of them. That God exists outside of creation. That they can see God from a distance.

That the purpose of life is to see God apart from ourselves.

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

See God. You see something if its outside of you.

Purify the Heart. The only thing that an alchemist must do.

This gnosis finishes the Solve part.

So Life, the Ouroboros, is a One cycle process.

Beginning = End

And existence is doing the Solve.

After Solve, then You're back to the Monad. Coagula.

~Fin.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-01-2013, 04:50 AM
Life is basically the Great Work.
Life IS the Great Work, not "Basically."


That is if you believe that the state prior to your birth is Singularity with God and the state after your death is Singularity with God
ALL is singularity, before and after any specific incarnation as well as during because we can never truly separate from the ALL(GOD/Source/Spirit) for to do so would cause one to cease existing in conjunction with never existing to begin with thusly creating a paradox, "That which does not exist cannot have existed and that has existed," will always exist for its vibrational frequency will radiate throughout time and space eternal in harmony with the singularity.


If you believe that this is so, then you've done the Coagula part.
Nope, one completes this part by knowing the truth that you are the ALL and the ALL is you, for nothing can exist outside of the ALL nor can anything exist separated from the ALL therefore we cannot "Coagula" because we already are.


When we're born, we're separated from this singularity. Our spirits are captured by time to be of matter temporarily. So we did the Solve part.
Again nope, we CANNOT separate from the ALL/SINGULARITY... Let me play a little game with you; "SING"ularity= One(1) Song: "Uni"verse= One(1) Song; the Spirit IS the Matter and vice versa.
Watch this Video it may help you understand the way the Singularity/Universe works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss1ajWeY_wc
To Get the illustration skip to 1:55 unless you want a history lesson which is pretty interesting.


But we're not aware that we did it, for we're trapped within creation. And we're ignorant of the existence of God. Or we deny that God exists. We even equate God with creation and if we do so, we still did not do the Solve part.

But there are people that are aware that God exists outside of them. That God exists outside of creation. That they can see God from a distance.

That the purpose of life is to see God apart from ourselves.
I'm sorry but the only way I know to say this is, "You're wrong."


Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

See God. You see something if its outside of you.
No, One can "See Him/Herself." it's called meditation


Purify the Heart. The only thing that an alchemist must do.

This gnosis finishes the Solve part.
I'm sorry but what Gnostic Texts have you been reading because I happen to be a Gnostic and I know for a fact that the Scriptures I read are in direct opposition of your "doctrine"


So Life, the Ouroboros, is a One cycle process.
Ouroboros/Infinity is a repetitive cycle, birth and death. It is a NEVER ENDING cycle.


Beginning = End
END = BEGINNING


And existence is doing the Solve.

After Solve, then You're back to the Monad. Coagula.

~Fin.
No, you never truly separate, only consciousness separates, even your subconsciousness stays "Coagula."

GOD Bless, may he open your eyes,
LGO

glenerson
04-01-2013, 05:47 AM
How Gnostic are you?

I'm a Valentinian Gnostic. (http://gnosis.org/library/valentinus/)

I presume that you're the modern New Age Gnostic based on your retorts.

Sorry, call it ad hominem but i checked your posts and there is no tinge of gnosticism in your posts.



1.) Singularity with God = One with Nothingness
2.) Separated from God = Born and became matter
3.) See God = Gnosis that God exists outside of matter
4.) Fully know God since we know God outside of us. The inward knowledge of God is sufficed by the state prior to birth.
5.) Now fully knowing God, we die to be reunited again with God, to nothingness.

Solve Et Coagula.

glenerson
04-01-2013, 05:54 AM
I'm sorry but the only way I know to say this is, "You're wrong."


What if I'm right? Then you're wrong.

glenerson
04-01-2013, 06:13 AM
Life IS the Great Work, not "Basically."


Basically i said for it is relative. For the Great Work for some is not Life itself. Basically is just to tell or convince one that Life is the Great work



ALL is singularity, before and after any specific incarnation as well as during because we can never truly separate from the ALL(GOD/Source/Spirit) for to do so would cause one to cease existing in conjunction with never existing to begin with thusly creating a paradox, "That which does not exist cannot have existed and that has existed," will always exist for its vibrational frequency will radiate throughout time and space eternal in harmony with the singularity.


I posit that before creation, nothingness is the singularity. then nothingness created creation and is external. then we, from the singularity of nothingness, got separated and went to creation. dot dot dot.



Nope, one completes this part by knowing the truth that you are the ALL and the ALL is you, for nothing can exist outside of the ALL nor can anything exist separated from the ALL therefore we cannot "Coagula" because we already are.

The common misconception is that people assume that they are the all. What is the opposite of ALL? For to be the all, there should be the opposite of all. Or if you wanna blur both definitions, you could exist as the "thing that cannot be put to words or thoughts" and i assure you that that is not the all.



Again nope, we CANNOT separate from the ALL/SINGULARITY... Let me play a little game with you; "SING"ularity= One(1) Song: "Uni"verse= One(1) Song; the Spirit IS the Matter and vice versa.
Watch this Video it may help you understand the way the Singularity/Universe works:

We can. Polyverse, does that ring a tune? Or nothingness, a state that there is no universe?




I'm sorry but the only way I know to say this is, "You're wrong."


all is relative. There is no right or wrong answer.



No, One can "See Him/Herself." it's called meditation


assuming that a house is built around you while youre in the inside. would you know what the house looks like from the outside if there are no doors in your house? No.

Seeing involves seeing in third person. External.



I'm sorry but what Gnostic Texts have you been reading because I happen to be a Gnostic and I know for a fact that the Scriptures I read are in direct opposition of your "doctrine"


Valentinian Gnostic here. I checked your posts and there is no tinge of gnosticism in them.



Ouroboros/Infinity is a repetitive cycle, birth and death. It is a NEVER ENDING cycle.


Would you be able to prove it? No because you'll die. You'll cease to exist. You will just undergo the cycle once.



END = BEGINNING


Beginning = End. End = Beginning. The same shit. I don't know why you Capped it.



No, you never truly separate, only consciousness separates, even your subconsciousness stays "Coagula."


Consciousness is you. if the consciousness separates, then something in you separates. Death separates you from the Living too. Death.



GOD Bless, may he open your eyes,
LGO

I always ask for God's help when i wish to see something. Thanks for reminding.

Andro
04-01-2013, 06:35 AM
How Gnostic are you?

Guys, please do not turn this into another 'who's more right/gnostic/whatever' piss-contest :eek:


What if I'm right? Then you're wrong.

We all have (and are entitled to) different views and perspectives. Even a seemingly 'opposing' view isn't necessarily 'wrong'.

What if you're BOTH 'right'? I can see very interesting points in both your angles!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Centuries ago, an old Zen Master traveled a very long distance to give a very short speech to a group of Zen students.

All he said was: "During all my years and many travels, I have never come across anything that wasn't true."

Then he grabbed his walking stick and went back home.

:)
____________________________________
PS: Oops, you already said it before I caught it:


All is relative. There is no right or wrong answer.

Good 'strategy' to stick with, IMO :cool:

lwowl
04-01-2013, 06:26 PM
glenerson:
1.) Singularity with God = One with Nothingness
2.) Separated from God = Born and became matter
3.) See God = Gnosis that God exists outside of matter
4.) Fully know God since we know God outside of us. The inward knowledge of God is sufficed by the state prior to birth.
5.) Now fully knowing God, we die to be reunited again with God, to nothingness.

glenerson:
I posit that before creation, nothingness is the singularity. then nothingness created creation and is external. then we, from the singularity of nothingness, got separated and went to creation. dot dot dot.

I can agree with you somewhat on the above. Only Nothingness had sex with Entropy because she had to be satisfied. She is insatiable. That Mysterium Conjuctionis gave birth to Nature. And the rest is History.
If I were to ask you, “What are you?” what would you say?
I know what I am.
I Am no thing.
lwowl


Solve Et Coagula.

solomon levi
04-02-2013, 07:10 AM
The singularity... how is this defined? For me the singularity is the center of the torus, the dot in the center of the gold glyph. The torus/All is obviously more encompassing than the center/singularity of the torus.
Death is not always ceasing to exist. There's a good deal of proof that we don't cease and no proof at all that we do cease.
To say that seeing equals 3rd person is a subjective/personal definition as the third person doesn't have physical eyes, and if we allow that seeing is not dependant on eyes, then one could see in any 'person'.
There are some things that don't have opposites and there are some minds that don't recognise this. There is more than binary perception.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-02-2013, 07:49 AM
Glenerson, why do you view matter as an imprisonment? Spirit Created matter and because Spirit is PERFECT/FLAWLESS it cannot create anything which is evil or imprisons itself. All things that are created are perfect because they were created by Spirit (oh and you are spirit, I am Spirit, the Earth is Spirit the "Uni"verse is Spirit.) Spirit didn't create something outside of itself, it elaborated on itself, from the way you are looking at things Matter would be trapped within Spirit.

I Rearranged your one post "BEGINNING = END" to "END = BEGINNING" because I wanted to show you that it's not a one way process, Ouroboros is cyclical which means it repeats itself.

Oh and even though I am a gnostic I will say that the "nothingness" never existed and will never exist, because nothing cannot exist because the Spirit would be what you call the Nothing and if it is spirit it is something. Spirit made for itself a body by elaborating on itself (that is internally not externally), it was a single sphere (1=1) and then became an interwoven double sphere (1=2) (this is known as dualistic singularity) then it elaborated further and became an interwoven triple sphere (1=3) (trinitarian singularity) then a fourth (1=4) (polyistic singularity) and so on...

"See God. You see something if its outside of you."
Not Necessarily, can one not "SEE" the error of his/her ways, can s/he not see his/her own soul?

Please open your eye and look WITHIN and ALL will become clear for if you do you will find SPIRIT/TRUTH.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-02-2013, 07:53 AM
Death is not always ceasing to exist. There's a good deal of proof that we don't cease and no proof at all that we do cease.
To say that seeing equals 3rd person is a subjective/personal definition as the third person doesn't have physical eyes, and if we allow that seeing is not dependant on eyes, then one could see in any 'person'.
There are some things that don't have opposites and there are some minds that don't recognise this. There is more than binary perception.

Well said Solomon, well said :cool:

lwowl
04-02-2013, 02:46 PM
LostGnosticOccultum:
Spirit Created matter and because Spirit is PERFECT/FLAWLESS it cannot create anything which is evil or imprisons itself. All things that are created are perfect because they were created by Spirit (oh and you are spirit, I am Spirit, the Earth is Spirit the "Uni"verse is Spirit.) Spirit didn't create something outside of itself, it elaborated on itself, from the way you are looking at things Matter would be trapped within Spirit.

Are you Spirit or do you have spirit?
I am not Spirit but I have spirit.
How did Spirit create Matter?

lwowl

solomon levi
04-02-2013, 09:50 PM
Hi guys. Hope it's cool if i participate.
I think these are two views... spirit CREATING matter and spirit BECOMING matter.
The latter seems the more alchemical of the two and corresponds to my experience.
Creating implies this separateness, but I have seen that no thing exists independent of anything else...
it's all from one root/source, smeared out through time/frequency...
at the faster time the frequency is shorter and finer, more subtle, and we call that spirit...
at the slower speed the frequency is longer and more dense and we call that matter.
But it's Jacob's ladder or whatever, a cascading fountain... same water just different size pools. :)
That's what I've seen.
Due to the "smearing", spirit can remain spirit AND become matter... meet itself.
Everything is self interacting with self. :)

glenerson
04-04-2013, 10:41 PM
spirit CREATING matter and spirit BECOMING matter.

This can be translated to math

lets assume that spirit is 0 and matter is 1.

Creation would be like this: 0 != 1 aka there are 2 elements
Transformation would be like this: 0 = 1 aka there is only 1 element

if zero is not equal to one, that means in the system there are 2 existing elements. if there are 2 existing elements, all that means that the first is not the second. and there is only 1 statement, that is 0 !=1.

if zero is one, that means there is only 1 thing that exist, that zero which is also 1. when Zero is equal to one, there will be a paradoxical equivalence, which will be falsified by doing the next step.

the next step.

first argument of creation is mathematically consistent if zero becomes one, which sadly invalidates the second argument of transformation.

if zero is resolved to one, the equations would be

1 != 2 which is true
1 = 2 which is false

Seth-Ra
04-05-2013, 04:15 AM
This can be translated to math


Indeed:

before the "beginning" (just spirit), 0 = 1 (both something and none).

http://www.edhumphries.com/wp-content/uploads/wyrmsblood_productions_ouroboros_by_awsomem-d4x7zdt-300x272.jpg

Then, it thought/realized some of its potential, and began manifesting its infinite self to reflect this. 0 = 1 = 2

http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/symbols/Duality_Blank.jpeg

From 2, comes 3 with the androgyny and mercury. 0 = 1 = 2 = 3

http://www.tecdallas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Triquetra-200x195.png

Then the 3 act on each other, through adaption and manifestation they beget 4. So 0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4

http://www.touchalchemy.com/images/aristotles-elements.gif

The 4 all cary, a thing that is not bound to either of them, the original Spirit, which is considered the 5th, or quintessence. 0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8247/pentagram2wk.jpg

The 5 then acts birthing the 6th, and balance is again praised within the Divine Expression.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6

http://gosai.com/sites/gosai/files/kt/star-of-david.gif

From the 6th, the Magi reach out and birth their 7th - their Star of Operation within the Expression, thus our Art.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7

http://www.alchemylab.com/images/Azoth.jpg

The Spirit embraces the 7th, and balances with the 8th - revealing its undeniable perfection throughout the infinite expression (infinite even when simplified).
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8

http://pmpaspeakingofprecision.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/8-snake.jpg

Spirit further realizes its Divine 3 (expounds upon it - 3x3), giving the gift of Magick (hence the religious symbols) to the Whole of the Expression, setting the stage for Completion - the magick of 9.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8 = 9

http://www.symbols.net/guide/_images_pub2/bahai9religions1_210w.png

From there, the expression returns to the source, but on a higher level. Back to the 0 (source) and 1 (full expression) simultaneous, the 10.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8 = 9 = 10

http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2008/03/16/126647_10point-Star-of-Energy_400.jpg

http://flywithmeproductions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ouroboros-blue.jpg

http://www.metalprices.com/images/metals/full_screen_bg/gold_solo.jpg

From 0, to 10, and back again - so does the wheel infinitely spin, as we micro-express, the macro-expression, all to start again, even with its never-end. ^.^





~Seth-Ra

Kiorionis
04-05-2013, 04:45 AM
very much enjoyed your post just now Seth-Ra. It made me :)

glenerson
04-05-2013, 04:59 AM
sethra, while i commend your effort to sensationalize illusionary iterations of one, i still maintain my basic cosmology of dualism to account for creation and monism to account for eschatology.

"at first theres nothingness then comes infinity and this infinity will contract to nothingness."

0 creates 1 to define 0 and now that the zero is defined 1 is destroyed and were back to the beginning where only zero exists.

aka solve et coagula, thus the title

Seth-Ra
04-05-2013, 06:01 AM
very much enjoyed your post just now Seth-Ra. It made me :)

Glad you liked it. :)


sethra, while i commend your effort to sensationalize illusionary iterations of one, i still maintain my basic cosmology of dualism to account for creation and monism to account for eschatology.

Im not sensationalizing any such illusionary iterations - im speaking of, and visually illustrating (with the Art's own Art) Alchemical Philosophy/Truth - which is prevalent in our Art, and verifiable in our lab work.

You can believe whatever you wish, but Alchemy is Alchemy - we all observe and operate by the same Principles, even if we express them differently (which my above post says - for the expression is infinite, even when simplified). In the end, what one wishes were so, does not really effect what is so. Those that fight the system (cause they are free too try), create a hell for themselves. Those that harmoniously work with it, realizing it, see only the paradise that is, always. :)


"at first theres nothingness then comes infinity and this infinity will contract to nothingness."

Alchemical "Nothing", as has been stated, is more so "No(one)thing" - Philosophical Antimony - "Not Alone". In the Subtlety (Light), White is All as One, appearing as None. For Density (Matter/Pigment). Black is All as One, appearing as None.

It All has always been, and will be - it is All being realized. :cool:


0 creates 1 to define 0 and now that the zero is defined 1 is destroyed and were back to the beginning where only zero exists.

aka solve et coagula, thus the title

Alchemy 101 - Take a matter, any matter, any one ya choose (or for the savy in such ways, an empty vessel will do ;) ).
Solve - is to open up the substance (empty vessels arent really empty, but you'll need to identify the Energy/Spirit there - either make it dense, or scry into it) - learn all its properties (The Philosophical 2, 3, 4, 5 etc of it - essence and matter, and mercury, and elemental corresponding forms, and quintessence etc etc etc)

Rectify these (usually in the form of the 3, as most books will have it), and then, guess what... :)

Coagula - they get recombined. In the beginning of this, the principles were there, but hidden as one/none (why most people dont see the Philosophy, only the object), then we see them, amplify them by working through them (the expression), then complete it, by making them All into One again. The principles dont vanish, the Life doesnt leave, nor the material destroyed. It merely changes form/vibration as it becomes more realized.

Also, if one wishes to play with words in their vulgar sense, the very idea of "something" - any single thing, "destroys" the idea of "nothing" - unless (we get alchemical/philosophical with it:) you take in All things, as One thing, to make Nothing (Black/White). Its not about destroying/removing, its about accepting, realizing.

Last thing here, why is it so many christians (and glenerson, im not meaning solely you - i see this occurrence quite a lot, so its a blanket/general question...) always want to go back to the garden, or back to the beginning... walking forward is the name of the game. The beginning book speaks of things being "very good" - lots of things are "very good", perfection is a different level, and is the last book.
The only way to get the perfection, is to go forward - to "become like them, knowing (realizing)..." not going backwards/regressing to ignorance (state before the realizing).

Realizing is also more than concept - like All Alchemical Patterns, it is both thought/symbolic, and practical/literal. Make it real - manifest it, thought and tangible, way of life and object.

(Solve) Breakdown - see One as All
(et) And - then we...
(Coagula) Recreate - join back, make whole/manifest.

:cool:




~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-05-2013, 07:28 AM
I'm a Valentinian Gnostic.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I happen to own a copy of the Nag Hammadi and I was pretty sure I saw the Valentinian scriptures in it at one point or another so I went and made sure. Well, I found it and so I did some reading up on it and was astonished by what I found and figured that you, glenerson, could use this because it seems that you don't know your scriptures too well.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8621545976_db529461e7_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8540/8621546796_facdfe0a1d_c.jpg

Notice what the second paragraph says, "The Father, who [is the root] of ALL and the [Ineffable One], exists as ONENESS, [being alone] in silence - "silence" means tranquility - since [he was] in fact ONE and NO(ONE)THING existed before him. He also exists [as] twoness and as a pair - his partner is Silence. Further, he possesses the ALL dwelling [INSIDE] him, together with Will, Being, Love and Permanence. These are unborn."

Your own religious doctrine supports Seth-Ra's claim and denies yours.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 01:53 PM
On a somewhat unrelated note, I happen to own a copy of the Nag Hammadi and I was pretty sure I saw the Valentinian scriptures in it at one point or another so I went and made sure. Well, I found it and so I did some reading up on it and was astonished by what I found and figured that you, glenerson, could use this because it seems that you don't know your scriptures too well.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8621545976_db529461e7_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8540/8621546796_facdfe0a1d_c.jpg

Notice what the second paragraph says, "The Father, who [is the root] of ALL and the [Ineffable One], exists as ONENESS, [being alone] in silence - "silence" means tranquility - since [he was] in fact ONE and NO(ONE)THING existed before him. He also exists [as] twoness and as a pair - his partner is Silence. Further, he possesses the ALL dwelling [INSIDE] him, together with Will, Being, Love and Permanence. These are unborn."

Your own religious doctrine supports Seth-Ra's claim and denies yours.

The passage is telling you that Nothingness(Silence) and The Father(Oneness/Infinity) are separate entities. That Nothingness and Oneness are separate. 0 != 1, which is my unwavering position all throughout.

I resolved it such that I remain a true Valentinian that Nothingness is Singularity, the Monad and Light is created by nothingness and is opposite of singularity aka infinity. Matter is the manifestation of Light.

To be true to Gnosticism, Nothingness/Monad is the True God and the infinite Light is the demiurge that created matter.

Thus 0 != 1

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3400-Valentinian-Gnosticism

To extend my Valentinian view, i also subscribe to the Ophite view

The True and Holy Church

Bythos (Depth):
Father of All (the First Man):
Ennoia, the Son of Man (the Second Man):
The Holy Spirit, the First Woman:
Water
Darkness
The Abyss
Chaos


Ophite is sort of the complete picture than the Valentinian. But they are not contradictory. Ophite just adds the Source of the Father.
I suggest that you read the "Cliff Notes" first http://gnosis.org/library/valentinus/ before you delve into the actual scripture because the scripture requires proper interpretation and blessing of the Holy Spirit to understand. You might be falling to incorrect understanding.



Your own religious doctrine supports Seth-Ra's claim and denies yours.

please pinpoint his claim that you think supports this religious doctrine because all i got from him is that One is the All, which i also get from the others here, also from you.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 02:16 PM
Last thing here, why is it so many christians (and glenerson, im not meaning solely you - i see this occurrence quite a lot, so its a blanket/general question...) always want to go back to the garden, or back to the beginning... walking forward is the name of the game. The beginning book speaks of things being "very good" - lots of things are "very good", perfection is a different level, and is the last book.


Because life is change. Discovery. Perfection. At first We were at Oneness with God. But if that is so, How can we see the outside of His Temple? How can we see that God exists for we only "Feel" God since were inside of Him? For to only know the Temple is not only to know the inside but also see the Temple from the outside.

Thus we were Separated and Born to See God from the Outside. Gnosis. Now that we fully know God from the Outside ("Seeing Him while in Creation") and Inside ("We're a Part of Him"), we will go back to become part of Him again.

Don't you realize this? This story fulfills the Ouroboros and it is only cycled once for once we know of God from the outside, there is no point to be born again.

This is also true to the tenet "Solve et Coagula." That we're One with God in the beginning, and then we're born and separated from God ("Solve") and the gnosis that God exists outside of us will lead us back to God again, death, now fully knowing Him and we're One with God ("Coagula").


I always thought that alchemists tried to put in flask the facts of life. I could try to explain to you alchemically too.

Take for our sample Salt, NaCl. Lets posit that NaCl is the Oneness of God and us. Then we have a glass of water, which symbolize creation. We put NaCl to water and what happens. Na+ ions and Cl- ions separate. Being in Creation separates us from God. And if we use fire (gnosis of God) to evaporate water (death/material destruction), Na+ions and Cl- ions become NaCl again, go back to Oneness.

See, water, fire and Salt is all you need to explain alchemy and life basically.

The true alchemist just needs Water, Fire and Salt (NaCl). Nothing else.

Yes, this could be what my idol alchemist Jabir or Parcelsus is trying to tell you. Water is symbolized by Mercury (Liquid Silver), Fire is symbolized by Sulfur (the alchemical symbol of Sulfur is the alchemical symbol of Fire with the cross) and Salt aka NaCl.

And i believe this is what they were referring to.

Solve Et Coagula

Seth-Ra
04-05-2013, 02:35 PM
Because life is change. Discovery. Perfection. At first We were at Oneness with God. But if that is so, How can we see the outside of His Temple? How can we see that God exists for we only "Feel" God since were inside of Him? For to only know the Temple is not only to know the inside but also see the Temple from the outside.

Thus we were Separated and Born to See God from the Outside. Gnosis. Now that we fully know God from the Outside ("Seeing Him while in Creation") and Inside ("We're a Part of Him"), we will go back to become part of Him again.

Don't you realize this? This story fulfills the Ouroboros and it is only cycled once for once we know of God from the outside, there is no point to be born again.

This is also true to the tenet "Solve et Coagula." That we're One with God in the beginning, and then we're born and separated from God ("Solve") and the gnosis that God exists outside of us will lead us back to God again, death, now fully knowing Him and we're One with God ("Coagula").


I always thought that alchemists tried to put in flask the facts of life. I could try to explain to you alchemically too.

Take for our sample SALT, NaCl. Lets posit that NaCl is the Oneness of God and us. Then we have a glass of water, which symbolize creation. We put NaCl to water and what happens. Na+ ions and Cl- ions separates. Being in Creation separates us from God. And if we use fire (gnosis/death) to evaporate water, Na+ions and Cl- ions become NaCl again, go back to Oneness.

See, water and Salt is all you need to explain alchemy and life basically.

The true alchemist just needs Water, Fire and Salt. Nothing else.

But that isn't a progression - it isn't a rectification of anything - it's just putting it back the way it was. Alchemy is about moving it forward on the evolutionary path. So the question of why everyone (mainstream Christians) wants to go back rather than forward, is unanswered.

Oh, and we were at One with God as potential, now, we are at One with God, realized. Perfection means we perfect that realization, not revert back to only potential, and again, there is no getting outside of God/All/One.




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-05-2013, 02:43 PM
But that isn't a progression - it isn't a rectification of anything - it's just putting it back the way it was. Alchemy is about moving it forward on the evolutionary path. So the question of why everyone (mainstream Christians) wants to go back rather than forward, is unanswered.

Oh, and we were at One with God as potential, now, we are at One with God, realized. Perfection means we perfect that realization, not revert back to only potential, and again, there is no getting outside of God/All/One.




~Seth-Ra


The only thing to rectify is the half ignorance. if we're one with something, there's a possibility that your self is an illusion or doesn't exist. we need to be separated to see the part of us to confirm that we exist. for the half will tell you that you're a part of half, that both of you are part of this single entity.

To put God into the equation, That being born in creation will give us the full knowledge of God. And after that, we go back to the Monad with full knowlege that the Monad exists.

Stability, peace, wholeness, single cycle. That the path is the rectification, the discovery. Once you discover, you don't rediscover or don't do the cycle again for discovery just happens once. Life just happens once. The ouroboros just cycles once.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 02:44 PM
also I don't like the word "progression" for to perpetually progress is not to attain perfection. never satisfied.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-05-2013, 03:33 PM
No it is saying he is both two and nor at the same time, don't you understand that something can be more than one thing at the same time? Look at the Earth, you have the land, the water, and the air, theyare all the same singular body but three different aspects of this singularity. We can study them as individual parts or a whole btw to know them as both at the samettime is true understanding. You are an EXTREMELY left brained person, you see the physical and individual parts but refuse to open your mind and see out of the right brain, this is seeing things as a whole and the individuals as a unified one, but even this is a flawed perception, only when you UNITE both brains will you see things as they are.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 05:22 PM
No it is saying he is both two and nor at the same time, don't you understand that something can be more than one thing at the same time? Look at the Earth, you have the land, the water, and the air, theyare all the same singular body but three different aspects of this singularity. We can study them as individual parts or a whole btw to know them as both at the samettime is true understanding. You are an EXTREMELY left brained person, you see the physical and individual parts but refuse to open your mind and see out of the right brain, this is seeing things as a whole and the individuals as a unified one, but even this is a flawed perception, only when you UNITE both brains will you see things as they are.

No it is saying that "ONENESS THAT EXISTS IN SILENCE" meaning that they are separate and distinct entities. ONENESS and SILENCE. And the passage said it later in explicit form that they exist in Two, thus they are separate.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-05-2013, 05:56 PM
In does not mean WITHIN it means that Spirit made no noise, didn't speak yet

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was Life and that Life was the Light of man." -John 1:1-4 (the Holy Bible)
"God said 'Let there be Light' and there was Light." - Genesis 1:3 (the Holy Bible)

The Word is also Silence. This is why the "Uni"verse is a Song, and is "Sing"ularity. All is One and One is All.
God/Spirit/Oneness is IN (not WITHIN) silence until he spoke, then silence was his partner.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 07:24 PM
In does not mean WITHIN it means that Spirit made no noise, didn't speak yet

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was Life and that Life was the Light of man." -John 1:1-4 (the Holy Bible)
"God said 'Let there be Light' and there was Light." - Genesis 1:3 (the Holy Bible)

The Word is also Silence. This is why the "Uni"verse is a Song, and is "Sing"ularity. All is One and One is All.
God/Spirit/Oneness is IN (not WITHIN) silence until he spoke, then silence was his partner.

Before you cross reference the Naghammadi Text with the Bible you must be sure you have the blessing of the Holy Spirit. Or at least consult the Holy Spirit to be sure if everything falls into place.


Clue: Father begots the Word. This Father and Word exist in ONENESS and still you have SILENCE that is Distinct from ONENESS.

glenerson
04-05-2013, 07:31 PM
And i notice that you keep derailing the thread while the thread made its point already via this post

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3504-Solve-Et-Coagula&p=29155#post29155

LostGnosticOccultum
04-05-2013, 10:05 PM
Before you cross reference the Naghammadi Text with the Bible you must be sure you have the blessing of the Holy Spirit. Or at least consult the Holy Spirit to be sure if everything falls into place.


Clue: Father begots the Word. This Father and Word exist in ONENESS and still you have SILENCE that is Distinct from ONENESS.
The Nag Hammadi is a complementary collection of books that are to work in harmony with the Holy Bible...
You and I exist INSIDE of GOD/SPIRIT/ONENESS/SOURCE not outside.

Oh and I'm not derailing the thread I'm trying to clean up the mess you''ve made so that new comers don't get confused by your lies.

solomon levi
04-05-2013, 10:53 PM
The text speaks for itself. Glenerson should not presume to be the only one capable of translating it,
especially since you already admit you are agreeable only to duality.
The text clearly mentions the All, which Glenerson has argued against and criticised, and it even seems
to be mention the number four at the bottom of the page, which Glenerson doesn't recognise.

I guess it's best if we all just speak for ourselves instead of claiming to represent someone else.
That would be true and accurate. We are influenced by all these various teachings and religions
and prefer some to others, but in the end we are just ourselves. And when we listen to one person's
beliefs or views, it is the individual word of god, if you respect that... and when we listen to everyone it is
the collective word of god.... and when we listen to silence it is...

Seth-Ra
04-05-2013, 10:55 PM
The only thing to rectify is the half ignorance. if we're one with something, there's a possibility that your self is an illusion or doesn't exist. we need to be separated to see the part of us to confirm that we exist. for the half will tell you that you're a part of half, that both of you are part of this single entity.

To put God into the equation, That being born in creation will give us the full knowledge of God. And after that, we go back to the Monad with full knowlege that the Monad exists.

Stability, peace, wholeness, single cycle. That the path is the rectification, the discovery. Once you discover, you don't rediscover or don't do the cycle again for discovery just happens once. Life just happens once. The ouroboros just cycles once.

Im sorry but that doesnt hold up. You obviously have never heard of Multiplication - discoveries happen all the time, the cycle goes again and again - motion never ceases. Ive repeatedly addressed your other logic flaws in the rest of that mess - im not going to do so again.

I will, however, recommend experiencing rather than all this preaching you do, thread after thread.


also I don't like the word "progression" for to perpetually progress is not to attain perfection. never satisfied.

On the surface it may appear so, but perfection is now - always. Life is change, the power of the Stone is change. Wisdom dictates that one is to be at peace/content with the perfection they are at every moment - while always moving forward. Perfection in motion.

It doesnt surprise me though, that you dont like the word "progression". ;)


Before you cross reference the Naghammadi Text with the Bible you must be sure you have the blessing of the Holy Spirit. Or at least consult the Holy Spirit to be sure if everything falls into place.


Clue: Father begots the Word. This Father and Word exist in ONENESS and still you have SILENCE that is Distinct from ONENESS.

I dont know what Spirit youre consulting (though im sure ive read of it before... one that rebels against what Is and seeks to bring everything to an end, thinking its design is better than what Is...)

Also, as soon as any sort of "Word"/"Sound" is uttered through the universe - Silence ceases being. The "Song" keeps playing, the Ouroboros makes more of itself for every bit thats eaten. Call it butterfly-effect, string theory, whatever you want - everything in existence is a harmonious song being played, with no beginning or end - only transitions of the Divine Cycling - changing of octaves.


And i notice that you keep derailing the thread while the thread made its point already via this post

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3504-Solve-Et-Coagula&p=29155#post29155

The thread didnt make its point - and your point doesnt hold up there. For one, if NaCl is the representation of "All/One" - how does it account for the existence of H2O? lol
Evaporation does not destroy water either - you "representation" of creation.

That whole thing twas only a jest at best.



Oh and I'm not derailing the thread I'm trying to clean up the mess you''ve made so that new comers don't get confused by your lies.

Amen.




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-05-2013, 11:46 PM
To explain. The Oneness/Pleroma which is composed of the Father and the Son, since Father begots the Son, rests on Silence or Nothingness which is the Mother of all Material things for it is in Silence/Nothingness/Kenoma the material world was created. The Oneness/Infinity contracted and what arised was the preexisting Silence/Kenoma/Nothingness that surrounds Oneness and Sophia created Matter on this Silence/Kenoma/Nothingness. And the rest is history.

That's what the Gnostics think. And I resolved it that this Nothingness is What Created the Infinite Light which in turn created Matter.

And mind you, The Word is not the verbal word. The Word is the Logos/the Son of God and equating it to the word Silence and attaching it to it is erroneous and faulty.

Call it lies or whatever. Remember, I'm planting seeds. These seeds are obviously on a bad soil but I'm pretty sure that there fall on good soil too. I bet other people have read the thread too.

Regards,

glenerson
04-05-2013, 11:49 PM
The thread didnt make its point - and your point doesnt hold up there. For one, if NaCl is the representation of "All/One" - how does it account for the existence of H2O? lol
Evaporation does not destroy water either - you "representation" of creation.

Just read Paracelsus' Spagyrics (Which incidentally is about Separation and Combination ^_^). Then it will be clear to you. Thanks.

You will remember me when you see Fire, Water and Salt.

Seth-Ra
04-05-2013, 11:59 PM
To explain. The Oneness/Pleroma which is composed of the Father and the Son, since Father begots the Son, rests on Silence or Nothingness which is the Mother of all Material things for it is in Silence/Nothingness/Kenoma the material world was created. The Oneness/Infinity contracted and what arised was the preexisting Silence/Kenoma/Nothingness that surrounds Oneness and Sophia created Matter on this Silence/Kenoma/Nothingness. And the rest is history.

That's what the Gnostics think. And I resolved it that this Nothingness is What Created the Infinite Light which in turn created Matter.

And mind you, The Word is not the verbal word. The Word is the Logos/the Son of God and equating it to the word Silence and attaching it to it is erroneous and faulty.

Call it lies or whatever. Remember, I'm planting seeds. These seeds obviously on bad soil but I'm pretty sure that there fall on good soil too.

Regards,

Sorry, my "soil" is alchemically prepared, so im immune to faulty gospels. :)


Just read Paracelsus' Spagyrics (Which incidentally is about Separation and Combination ^_^). Then it will be clear to you. Thanks.

You will remember me when you see Fire, Water and Salt.

I have seen them, im actually working with them right now, and they are amazing. :)
I wont remember you though - since you did not show them, have not shown them, and all of my work and study predates your preaching on this forum. :)




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-06-2013, 12:03 AM
I wont remember you though - since you did not show them, have not shown them, and all of my work and study predates your preaching on this forum. :)


I don't know if this is a personal remark. For i can sense the hate lol.

If you want it to be personal. so let's be, I'd rather see the disagreements from the TRUE alchemists here like Bel Matina, thrival and Androgynous. I'm sure I'll be happy to see them lambast my work.

Seth-Ra
04-06-2013, 01:23 AM
I don't know if this is a personal remark. For i can sense the hate lol.

If you want it to be personal. so let's be, I'd rather see the disagreements from the TRUE alchemists here like Bel Matina, thrival and Androgynous. I'm sure I'll be happy to see them lambast my work.

There honestly is no hate in my responses. I dont know where youre getting that.

All the one's you've listed are friends of mine, who i have great respect and admiration for. I did notice Solomon Levi was left out of that list of "TRUE alchemists" - is it cause he's been vocal with the same points i have? The ones you name have been relatively quiet, choosing (mostly) only to speak with a "nod" on what they did manage to agree with out of your threads. Id see that as what my brother calls the "Thumper Directive" - they found something "nice", so they said it. Most of the threads you make, however, echo mostly crickets, aside from points made by SL, LGO, and myself.

lol funny ole' world.




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-06-2013, 02:01 AM
There honestly is no hate in my responses. I dont know where youre getting that.

All the one's you've listed are friends of mine, who i have great respect and admiration for. I did notice Solomon Levi was left out of that list of "TRUE alchemists" - is it cause he's been vocal with the same points i have? The ones you name have been relatively quiet, choosing (mostly) only to speak with a "nod" on what they did manage to agree with out of your threads. Id see that as what my brother calls the "Thumper Directive" - they found something "nice", so they said it. Most of the threads you make, however, echo mostly crickets, aside from points made by SL, LGO, and myself.

lol funny ole' world.




~Seth-Ra

Agreement means getting on the same plane.

Obviously we are not on the same plane.

But who is wrong?

Your "friend" LostGnosticOccultum is fervently insisting that I'm wrong.

But all is relative, isn't it?

So all I can say is LOL.

Crickets on my thread are basically You, LGO and sol. Yes. Crickets spewing negativity on my threads indeed.

Seth-Ra
04-06-2013, 02:36 AM
Agreement means getting on the same plane.

Obviously we are not on the same plane.

Obviously.

Mars/Aries sees only dual war, while Sol see's the All as One. (see previous imagery)


But who is wrong?

Your "friend" LostGnosticOccultum is fervently insisting that I'm wrong.

But all is relative, isn't it?

So all I can say is LOL.

All is relative to context. Warring Duality (something/nothing) is not Whole/Unity perception. It has its place, it is not "wrong" within the spectrum of expression. But duality does not take the place/perception of Wholeness/Unity. Just as Wholeness/Unity does not take the place of Duality within the expression. Its a matter of view point. Do you view it from down in the valley, seeing two sides, or up on the mountain, seeing them all together as one flowing movement?

As for LGO - he fervently sees your perception of Duality and Nothingness (non-existence) as wrong in its context/meanings presented, which SL and I have also elaborated on, albeit in calmer form. (LGO is passionate/fiery, i wouldnt be quick to begrudge it. ;) )

Yes, we are all saying "LOL" - cheers. ;)



Crickets on my thread are basically You, LGO and sol. Yes. Crickets spewing negativity on my threads indeed.

Im sorry you view discussion/point-making as "negativity", but that does explain a bit.

Dont worry, i wont take offense at being called a "cricket"/insect either. Im not that petty. :) Besides, they make lovely music and can be great fishing bait - all things have a place. All/One understands this, and doesnt see the Life-Fighting as anything more than energy-exchange. :) Tis quite a peaceful view - no need for things to be destroyed/judged, just put into their places in the picture. :)





~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-06-2013, 03:33 AM
As for LGO - he fervently sees your perception of Duality and Nothingness (non-existence) as wrong in its context/meanings presented, which SL and I have also elaborated on, albeit in calmer form. (LGO is passionate/fiery, i wouldnt be quick to begrudge it. ;) )


Its a matter of view point. Do you view it from down in the valley, seeing two sides, or up on the mountain, seeing them all together as one flowing movement?
This is the Left and Right brained perspective of the universe. Left (Male View); in the valley seeing the pieces as separate. Right (Female View), on the mountain top looking down on it as a whole. Now the trick, the Truth, is to stand on the mountain and understand the parts as from the valley as well.

Thanks for the illustration Seth-Ra, I've heard it before but forgot about it haha :)

GOD Bless, LGO

solomon levi
04-07-2013, 11:26 PM
i don't think i've said Glenerson is wrong... maybe. but what i definitely said, and is my point, is that he is partial, not representing the whole/Infinity, which is my imageless God. he represents a God that is 'this, not that', and a God that excludes something isn't worth contemplating for me. Hitler excluded some... shall we call him God or ego? it is ego that imagines God excludes... or rather creates/images God in its own image. that's an 'error' or premature conclusion in my experience. it's very likely that all conclusions are premature. Infinity does not 'conclude'. only temporal imagined things conclude, or resolve back into their first matter. the dual 'God' will be resolved into unity/Infinity, not non-existence. Infinity encompasses existence and non-existence. for me, by definition, Infinity is the only unity/One. everything else is two... that thing AND Infinity... that thing existing (or not existing) in Infinity.
that's just the simplest way to say it imo.
continued ...

solomon levi
04-07-2013, 11:44 PM
sometimes Glenerson seems to be saying the same thing only to me he makes it more complicated than it need be. sometimes distorted imo. to rest in dualism seems so obviously incomplete... i'm not aware of any system that teaches that two is the source. i am aware of systems that even jump from one to three. Gnosticism recognises dualism, but their God is ineffable, which agrees with what i prefer to call Infinity. it is because the Ineffable is infinite that it cannot have name or form or image. it is the only 'thing' of which that can be said, call it what you will. it is One without opposition. to ascribe opposition to it, as Glenerson does, is misleading/misguided... 'wrong' if you will. even according to Gnosticism one mustn't do that. else you are 'worshipping' the demiurgos in some form.

solomon levi
04-07-2013, 11:54 PM
i just saw/realised that the presence, present, now, is a microcosm of the Infinity, Ineffable, macrocosm.

glenerson
04-08-2013, 08:19 PM
sometimes Glenerson seems to be saying the same thing only to me he makes it more complicated than it need be. sometimes distorted imo. to rest in dualism seems so obviously incomplete... i'm not aware of any system that teaches that two is the source. i am aware of systems that even jump from one to three. Gnosticism recognises dualism, but their God is ineffable, which agrees with what i prefer to call Infinity. it is because the Ineffable is infinite that it cannot have name or form or image. it is the only 'thing' of which that can be said, call it what you will. it is One without opposition. to ascribe opposition to it, as Glenerson does, is misleading/misguided... 'wrong' if you will. even according to Gnosticism one mustn't do that. else you are 'worshipping' the demiurgos in some form.

Consistency. Connections that things that seem to be unrelated are actually related.

Thanks for recognizing this.

And I suggest you check the Ophites, the Gnostics that worship the serpent and the Cainites, the Gnostics that regard the Herbalist son of Eve highly.

HappyPotter
04-11-2013, 09:49 AM
Indeed:

before the "beginning" (just spirit), 0 = 1 (both something and none).

http://www.edhumphries.com/wp-content/uploads/wyrmsblood_productions_ouroboros_by_awsomem-d4x7zdt-300x272.jpg

Then, it thought/realized some of its potential, and began manifesting its infinite self to reflect this. 0 = 1 = 2

http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/symbols/Duality_Blank.jpeg

From 2, comes 3 with the androgyny and mercury. 0 = 1 = 2 = 3

http://www.tecdallas.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Triquetra-200x195.png

Then the 3 act on each other, through adaption and manifestation they beget 4. So 0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4

http://www.touchalchemy.com/images/aristotles-elements.gif

The 4 all cary, a thing that is not bound to either of them, the original Spirit, which is considered the 5th, or quintessence. 0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8247/pentagram2wk.jpg

The 5 then acts birthing the 6th, and balance is again praised within the Divine Expression.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6

http://gosai.com/sites/gosai/files/kt/star-of-david.gif

From the 6th, the Magi reach out and birth their 7th - their Star of Operation within the Expression, thus our Art.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7

http://www.alchemylab.com/images/Azoth.jpg

The Spirit embraces the 7th, and balances with the 8th - revealing its undeniable perfection throughout the infinite expression (infinite even when simplified).
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8

http://pmpaspeakingofprecision.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/8-snake.jpg

Spirit further realizes its Divine 3 (expounds upon it - 3x3), giving the gift of Magick (hence the religious symbols) to the Whole of the Expression, setting the stage for Completion - the magick of 9.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8 = 9

http://www.symbols.net/guide/_images_pub2/bahai9religions1_210w.png

From there, the expression returns to the source, but on a higher level. Back to the 0 (source) and 1 (full expression) simultaneous, the 10.
0 = 1 = 2 = 3 = 4 = 5 = 6 = 7 = 8 = 9 = 10

http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2008/03/16/126647_10point-Star-of-Energy_400.jpg

http://flywithmeproductions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ouroboros-blue.jpg

http://www.metalprices.com/images/metals/full_screen_bg/gold_solo.jpg

From 0, to 10, and back again - so does the wheel infinitely spin, as we micro-express, the macro-expression, all to start again, even with its never-end.


Thanks Seth-Ra, very enlightening, I truly appreciate that post.