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thrival
04-02-2013, 11:46 PM
I know that's a pretty basic question but somehow my mind needs to know, in order to progress to a fuller understanding of what I'm doing. I know heat stirs up electronic energy, and might presume that acid and bases are separated, albeit to a lesser degree than dry distillations; but if someone could comment upon the changes that occur on both sides, with more eagles, etc., would be helpful toward having more faith in one's own actions.

solomon levi
04-03-2013, 01:30 AM
it's spiritualised... with each eagle more earth gets carried over/sublimed. one might consider this sublimated earth potential gold, a little king worth more than gold. perhaps you've read Fulcanelli about St Christopher, which means "christ bearer". this divine child of the sun and moon, the heaven and earth, fixed and volatile... is "our gold", chrysos... at least in some paths it satisfies that archetype. our male and female fight one another due to contrariness, but eventually conquer one another simultaneously, volatilizing the fixed and fixing the volatile. this rebus, androgyne is christ/anointed... the dove appearing after baptism, ready to be joined to silver (for white stone) or gold (for red).

solomon levi
04-03-2013, 01:37 AM
chemically, idk... we can assume the menstruum is dissolving the most subtle earth and making it smaller and breaking it down... maybe colloids or nanoparticles or mono-atomics are being formed.

Crowned Lion 6&4
04-03-2013, 05:43 AM
yes I agree with solomon its spiritualized. I have read in holland's books that the elements are seperating, as water from earth or the volatile liquids which is its spirit.

thrival
04-03-2013, 10:58 AM
OK, but I think it would help to define what "spiritualized" means beyond mere new-age warm & fuzzies. If spirit(s) exist then there must be a physics behind it/them. I agree that heat tends to strip off outer shell electrons and more of the exterior matter might volatilize and carry over with every eagle. Some materials, especially acids and ammoniated salts, do tend to carry over. I was just hoping there might be a deeper body of chemistry knowledge out there somewhere, to shed more light.


yes I agree with solomon its spiritualized. I have read in holland's books that the elements are seperating, as water from earth or the volatile liquids which is its spirit.

solomon levi
04-03-2013, 07:41 PM
Well, as always, it's relative.
Glauber called gold precipitated out of aqua regia by potassium carbonate "spiritual gold", "gold atoms".
Someone else will call it material gold hydroxide.

thrival
04-06-2013, 02:17 PM
Oh! So you think "spiritual gold" and gold hydroxide are the same thing? That would be very useful chemical insight, Sol. And it makes logical sense, because we do know that acids and alkalis are separated via distillation. Thank you, Sol!


Well, as always, it's relative.
Glauber called gold precipitated out of aqua regia by potassium carbonate "spiritual gold", "gold atoms".
Someone else will call it material gold hydroxide.

z0 K
04-06-2013, 09:32 PM
What exactly occurs to matter during (wet) distillation?

thrival:
“I know that's a pretty basic question but somehow my mind needs to know, in order to progress to a fuller understanding of what I'm doing. I know heat stirs up electronic energy, and might presume that acid and bases are separated, albeit to a lesser degree than dry distillations; but if someone could comment upon the changes that occur on both sides, with more eagles, etc., would be helpful toward having more faith in one's own actions. “

During distillation processes heat stirs up thermal energy which causes molecules to vibrate faster and that causes them to bounce into each other and move away accordingly. When the molecules move far enough away from each other they undergo several changes in state which the alchemists called the Elements. First is the lowest state of molecular vibration, earth (alchemy) or solid (chemistry and physics). Next, as the molecules heat up they expand the distance from each other and transmute into water (alchemy) or liquid state. With more heat applied the molecules rarify further and transmute into air (alchemy) or gas (chemistry). If the molecules are prevented from flying off as a gas and a great deal more heat is applied then they will be stirred up electronically as the electrons disassociate from the nucleus. Then you will have the element of fire (alchemy) or plasma (physics).
Once the liquid in your principles under (wet) distillation have been separated then you will be dry distilling. Great diligence is required to isolate the sulfur (alchemical) or tars (chemistry) without burning them. If you apply a great deal of heat quickly to your principles under consideration the valence electrons will take off and the molecules will die. That is destructive distillation.
Philosophically, when you run your principles through the elements successfully they will become more flexible to the idea of transformation. Many of the old sages called this “opening the pores.”

Thrival:
“OK, but I think it would help to define what "spiritualized" means beyond mere new-age warm & fuzzies. If spirit(s) exist then there must be a physics behind it/them. I agree that heat tends to strip off outer shell electrons and more of the exterior matter might volatilize and carry over with every eagle. Some materials, especially acids and ammoniated salts, do tend to carry over. I was just hoping there might be a deeper body of chemistry knowledge out there somewhere, to shed more light.”


Spirit is a Philosophical consideration in alchemy. In contrast chemistry considers only “energy.” Energy is a manifestation of Spirit, and matter is a manifestation of Body. Spirit and Body are Philosophical Principles held together by Soul, the third Philosophical Principle.
The science of chemistry is a vast sea of knowledge. I refer to many of the old books especially from the 1700s and 1800s because the information contains the secrets of alchemy written by the alchemists as they intentionally became chymysts to set themselves apart from the fake alchemists going about conjuring gold from lead using fabulous props to obfusticate the attention of the audience, and from the charlatans selling alchemical elixirs that were just ordinary booz or worse.

Here’s one of my favorite early chemistry books:
http://www.alchemylife.org/arkivs/Hddn/fpucx.pdf

Just my take on things.
z0 K

solomon levi
04-07-2013, 10:54 PM
Oh! So you think "spiritual gold" and gold hydroxide are the same thing? That would be very useful chemical insight, Sol. And it makes logical sense, because we do know that acids and alkalis are separated via distillation. Thank you, Sol!

well, "I" don't think it. that's just from Glauber, one source. I'm not aware of what others considered to be spiritual gold, or who else used that term. one source isn't conclusive and Glauber used lots of spagyrics and archemy as well as alchemy.
but it's a possible definition.
maybe sodium auride could be considered spiritual gold by some.
maybe any form of non-diatomic gold.

thrival
04-08-2013, 12:44 AM
Glauber et al also called it the "Ens" of gold, recoverable from colored sands and fired red clays, via acids, but not manifesting any physical gold until the powder (following removal of the acid via distillation) is joined with another metallic body. The ens are said necessary for making the Stone. But Glauber jumps around, is not easy putting his writings into continuity.