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glenerson
04-07-2013, 04:16 PM
"100%, using the 4 elements, my tongue is my instrument, scratch the vinyl for it to be a complete achievement."

So we keep on talking about the 4 elements as if it is like the cryptic words of the Bible, as if they are ethereal or out of this world. We even equate them to chemical elements when if we subject them to proper chemical reactions, all we hear are the laughter because of hilarity from the actual chemists.

So what it is anyway. Earth, wind, fire and water? They say they're slaves to the 5th element. They say that the 5th element is the sky or some parts of the heavens.

As thrival said, modern people here won't get what you're talking about if you constantly refer to the Bible, or do some ancient correlations of the stars, zodiac, months, color and even elements in the periodic table.

So I briefly refrain from doing what i'm doing and give you how these elements work in real life.

I respect the Druids and plant worshippers. The alchemists that delve into herbalism and organic chemistry. I even know now why we Catholics are fixturing a Christmas Tree in December 25. Or the Jews talking about the Tree of Life and the Tree of Good and evil. Or the fabled World Tree.

Even the Revelations (9th to be exact, or the angel who blew the 5th trumpet) say that the locusts(aka the Destroyers) were even told to not to harm the green grass or any green plants or trees. Just the people who don't have the mark of God.

Why? Because vegetation could be the materialization of the 5th Force. The 5th Element.

This is what a plant does,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Photosynthesis.gif

Sunlight is obviously Fire
The respiration from CO2 to O2 is Air
The water that sustains the lustre and liveliness of plants and help to nourish plants is Water
The soil on which the plant stands and help to nourish them is Earth

So all of the 4 classical elements coverge on a single plant. That means that the plant uses all the elements to exist. It could also be said that these 4 elements exist because the plant exists.

Yes, Druidism and Plant Worshipping on my Google Search Keyword list

Your Brother,

Glenerson

Kiorionis
04-07-2013, 05:04 PM
I enjoyed this post glenerson :)
The soil, rainwater, atmosphere and sun (earth, water, air, fire) operate on vegetation, and the vegetable grows. We are what we eat. The plant is then Earth, Water, Air and Fire; does this make the plant itself the '5th element'?
Is the 5th element the Life of the plant?

Such a simple and profound image; the tree of life:
http://www.kabbalah-bracelets.com/images/tree_of_life.png

The Tree of Life is the body of God!
:p

Seth-Ra
04-07-2013, 05:34 PM
I enjoyed this post glenerson :)
The soil, rainwater, atmosphere and sun (earth, water, air, fire) operate on vegetation, and the vegetable grows. We are what we eat. The plant is then Earth, Water, Air and Fire; does this make the plant itself the '5th element'?
Is the 5th element the Life of the plant?


(Boldness added)

Exactly. :) The Quintessence is the Active/Receiving (simultaneous) Life of the thing - the Life which is carried in the other 4, and seen by their harmony. Same is for the Animal Kingdom also, just comes down to frequency. :)

Also, yes, this is a better one glenerson. :)




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-07-2013, 10:52 PM
I enjoyed this post glenerson :)

Thanks!

"5th element"?

I'm thinking that it's the actual plant. Or a tree. anything that has chlorophyll in it.

There's nothing wrong with worshipping a plant. For we are first given plants before we started to eat meat.

And i'm sure you heard the Buddha meditating under a Bodhi Tree. I'm suspecting that he is roleplaying himself as a tree, trying to channel the 4 elements to become the "5th element."

^_^

solomon levi
04-08-2013, 01:52 AM
i like the point of the place of plants in the chain too, but the 5th element is invisible by definition. this doesn't lessen the significance of plants, but as Seth-Ra pointed out, the animal kingdom is also the five elements, no less significant. plants, animals and minerals exist from quintessence. i like Glen's view that they also generate quintessence, if i am understanding him correctly.
personally, i feel the word 'worship' needs clarification. it doesn't really do justice imo. Egyptians were not sun/Ra worshippers in the sense that most people grasp, nor Druids plant worshippers... they ARE, but not as commonly accepted/interpreted. i like how Lawrence Gardener compared worship to workshop. :)

Salazius
04-08-2013, 10:26 AM
This is not, in my understanding, a vision of the Alchemical elements, but more a general Hermetical vision.

Alchemical elements would be to show the different types of elements in a matter after its decomposition, like oil/sulfur for fire, spirit and volatile salts for the air, flegm for water, white earth and soluble salts for earth.

glenerson
04-08-2013, 08:08 PM
i like the point of the place of plants in the chain too, but the 5th element is invisible by definition. this doesn't lessen the significance of plants, but as Seth-Ra pointed out, the animal kingdom is also the five elements, no less significant. plants, animals and minerals exist from quintessence. i like Glen's view that they also generate quintessence, if i am understanding him correctly.
personally, i feel the word 'worship' needs clarification. it doesn't really do justice imo. Egyptians were not sun/Ra worshippers in the sense that most people grasp, nor Druids plant worshippers... they ARE, but not as commonly accepted/interpreted. i like how Lawrence Gardener compared worship to workshop. :)

I don't agree that the animal kingdom explicitly uses the 4 elements, just like the plants does. Men can live on space station and that means they are not overly dependent on the ground or soil. They are free from the "bondage" of earth via their movement. Also, Men can live in subterranean dwellings or live in dark places for a long long time while plants die immediately if subjected to those conditions. The only elements that men immediately need are water and air.

Sure indirectly men also need sun and the ground or soil. We can also say that the food that we eat can represent earth (which is debatable by the thought of it) but the point is that the plants prioritize those 4 elements to exist.

I could say that Plants/Trees is the materialization of the balance of the 4 Elements. They could be the 5th element. So the 5th element is not that thing that cannot be seen after all. If you believe that the 5th element is invisible, i guess you're just blind. lol

Krisztian
04-08-2013, 08:54 PM
The only elements that men immediately need are water and air.

Humans, their physical vessel (37 Celsius), sits in-between the cooling effect of Air, and the much needed warming influence of Fire. If this equilibrium fails, the seminal fluid is threatened, the physical body will perish. Long-standing fever threatens that balance, but so does living in the Arctic North. Unless one has genetic predisposition, speaking of the later, it becomes evident that the Fire element one cannot live without. In terms of the medical, the body will leach out from the bones "the Fire element", and eventually develop various medical issues, not just Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).


Sure indirectly men also need sun and the ground or soil. We can also say that the food that we eat can represent earth (which is debatable by the thought of it) but the point is that the plants prioritize those 4 elements to exist.

In terms of the Earth element, unless the organism was created as hybrid, or under (off-Planet) different conditions, that'll be a serious loss in the electrical and magnetic spheres of the physical body if that organism is taken from it's earth soil. The vessel will experience serious ailments because the energetic interplay of the Earth element is missing.

glenerson
04-08-2013, 11:25 PM
Humans, their physical vessel (37 Celsius), sits in-between the cooling effect of Air, and the much needed warming influence of Fire. If this equilibrium fails, the seminal fluid is threatened, the physical body will perish. Long-standing fever threatens that balance, but so does living in the Arctic North. Unless one has genetic predisposition, speaking of the later, it becomes evident that the Fire element one cannot live without. In terms of the medical, the body will leach out from the bones "the Fire element", and eventually develop various medical issues, not just Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).



In terms of the Earth element, unless the organism was created as hybrid, or under (off-Planet) different conditions, that'll be a serious loss in the electrical and magnetic spheres of the physical body if that organism is taken from it's earth soil. The vessel will experience serious ailments because the energetic interplay of the Earth element is missing.

Humans and plants are subject to ambient condition so the point of comparison is moot if you compare the ideal body temperature of humans for plants also have an ideal body temperature to survive.

what im talking is the direct need of plants compared to animals/human of the fire element.

Human body can survive in Arctic and Antarctic areas by body heat and trapping the body heat by clothing. Where do they get this heat? Carbohydrates. Food. From plants. or from other herbivores that coverted carbs to fats.

Plants directly need the Sun/Fire, while men can theoretically live without it by taking the intermediary food or if not, will survive longer than plants.

And

The current U.S. record-holder for the longest stay in space is former astronaut and space station commander Michael Lopez-Alegria, who spent 215 days in orbit between September 2006 and April 2007.

Plant for sure cannot stay 215 days alive while uprooted.

Krisztian
04-08-2013, 11:48 PM
Human body can survive in Arctic and Antarctic areas by body heat and trapping the body heat by clothing. Where do they get this heat? Carbohydrates. Food. From plants. or from other herbivores that coverted carbs to fats.

What you say comes from theoretical; my comment comes from experiential. The mood and hormonal levels of humans can't tolerate lack of Fire element, unless (but even then), as pointed out, there's a genetic predisposition by some groups like Aboriginals [of that region]. No food is adequate, no amount, to account for the deficiency in the Fire element in those regions. Overtime, great diseasement [of the body] is created. For most city-dweller philosophers [away from those regions of the North] this is unknown.

One trained astronaut, the experience of 215 days, should not be generalized for the whole species of humanity to make argument against the need for the Earth element.

All four elements apply to humans (and needed) as much as to the plant kingdom.

Seth-Ra
04-09-2013, 12:56 AM
Also, regardless of the form of fire - we and all animals use it like the plants.

Plants also can live being uprooted: it's called hydroponics, they simply hang the plants and sprits the roots with water containing the nutrients needed. They do fine. Evergreens and other trees also do fine in the snowy cold, and various moss and what not likes caves. Lycan can survive in space, without food or water - it lays dormant, and then when brought back and given its normal conditions, returns to its normal activities.

They are the same, it's just frequency/motion. We have more. That's all.




~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 02:48 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8632604037_9fc37257ac_c.jpg

(I took screen shot of this because there has been some apparent wiki editing to benefit party agendas so I wish to have this on file so it may not be changed and if so the prior records are still shown)


UVB exposure induces the production of vitamin D in the skin at a rate of up to 1,000 IUs per minute. The majority of positive health effects are related to this vitamin. It has regulatory roles in calcium metabolism (which is vital for normal functioning of the nervous system, as well as for bone growth and maintenance of bone density), immunity, cell proliferation, insulin secretion, and blood pressure.[22]


Humans need Solar Rays (fire) to help regulate and maintain the aforementioned areas of human life; i.e.. it is essential for homeostasis.


Too little UVB radiation may lead to a lack of vitamin D. Too much UVB radiation may lead to direct DNA damage, sunburn, and skin cancer. An appropriate amount of UVB (which varies according to skin color) leads to a limited amount of direct DNA damage. This is recognized and repaired by the body, then melanin production is increased, which leads to a long-lasting tan. This tan occurs with a 2-day lag phase after irradiation.

However it is all about moderation and quantity.

And to quote Krisztian:

In terms of the Earth element, unless the organism was created as hybrid, or under (off-Planet) different conditions, that'll be a serious loss in the electrical and magnetic spheres of the physical body if that organism is taken from it's earth soil. The vessel will experience serious ailments because the energetic interplay of the Earth element is missing.

Couldn't have said it better ;)

and to address the animal issue further (as the fifth element/quintessence)
http://fiolet.org.pl/images/5-points.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jBkRZFLHQyM/UAOcXLB128I/AAAAAAAAFkw/7Se9l5k3dW4/s1600/apple_pentagram.jpg
This is a perfect comparison to the relation of the quintessence/fifth element in both plants and animals

And if you prefer a more chemical standpoint
Hemoglobin(blood) molecular structure
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Heme_b.svg/220px-Heme_b.svg.png
Chlorophyll molecular structure
http://www.plantcell.org/content/vol17/issue3/images/medium/pc030676F04_LW.gif

Hope this helps :cool:

GOD Bless, LGO

Kiorionis
04-09-2013, 03:11 AM
This is not, in my understanding, a vision of the Alchemical elements, but more a general Hermetical vision.

Alchemical elements would be to show the different types of elements in a matter after its decomposition, like oil/sulfur for fire, spirit and volatile salts for the air, flegm for water, white earth and soluble salts for earth.

Glad you said this Salazius :)
I haven't thought of separating the theory of Hermeticism from that of Alchemy.
I haven't considered the oil as the fire element until now, mostly because elsewhere I read it as being the air which is separated out first through water distillation and I guess that has stuck with me.

My mind has broadened. Everything falling into place.. I have much thinking to do now...

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 04:44 AM
I haven't thought of separating the theory of Hermeticism from that of Alchemy.

Neither are theory; both are truths which work as complements to each-other :)

Kiorionis
04-09-2013, 04:49 AM
well I can't argue with that :p

Should have said the laws of hermeticism and alchemy...
thanks for correcting me.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 04:56 AM
No problem haha I just wanted others (mainly any new comers) to know its fact and not theory :p

Seth-Ra
04-09-2013, 04:09 PM
This is not, in my understanding, a vision of the Alchemical elements, but more a general Hermetical vision.

Alchemical elements would be to show the different types of elements in a matter after its decomposition, like oil/sulfur for fire, spirit and volatile salts for the air, flegm for water, white earth and soluble salts for earth.

Glad you said this Salazius :)
I haven't thought of separating the theory of Hermeticism from that of Alchemy.
I haven't considered the oil as the fire element until now, mostly because elsewhere I read it as being the air which is separated out first through water distillation and I guess that has stuck with me.

My mind has broadened. Everything falling into place.. I have much thinking to do now...


I would say it is only a difference in Micro and Macro representation. The 4 are at play in our conditions/environments (as well as the labs, and their processes - thus sacred arrangements, from ritual circles/sacred space, to fengu shui type ideas/designs), as well as being at play inside of the things worked with, and ourselves. Inner and Outer. :)




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-09-2013, 06:04 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8242/8632604037_9fc37257ac_c.jpg

(I took screen shot of this because there has been some apparent wiki editing to benefit party agendas so I wish to have this on file so it may not be changed and if so the prior records are still shown)



Humans need Solar Rays (fire) to help regulate and maintain the aforementioned areas of human life; i.e.. it is essential for homeostasis.



However it is all about moderation and quantity.

And to quote Krisztian:


Couldn't have said it better ;)

and to address the animal issue further (as the fifth element/quintessence)
http://fiolet.org.pl/images/5-points.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jBkRZFLHQyM/UAOcXLB128I/AAAAAAAAFkw/7Se9l5k3dW4/s1600/apple_pentagram.jpg
This is a perfect comparison to the relation of the quintessence/fifth element in both plants and animals

And if you prefer a more chemical standpoint
Hemoglobin(blood) molecular structure
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Heme_b.svg/220px-Heme_b.svg.png
Chlorophyll molecular structure
http://www.plantcell.org/content/vol17/issue3/images/medium/pc030676F04_LW.gif

Hope this helps :cool:

GOD Bless, LGO

http://pics1.ds-static.com/prodimg/219214/500.JPG

Plants don't have "(sun)light substitutes." Even plants in the coldest regions need sunlight/Fire. Even plants grown exclusively indoor need Light source, even if it's artificial.

The fact that hemoglobin are Fe2+ centered and chlorophyll are Mg2+ centered means that there exist different configurations. I would bring down my flag if hemoglobin are Mg2+ centered and give in that plants and humans are both the same fifth element.

glenerson
04-09-2013, 06:12 PM
Also, regardless of the form of fire - we and all animals use it like the plants.

Plants also can live being uprooted: it's called hydroponics, they simply hang the plants and sprits the roots with water containing the nutrients needed. They do fine. Evergreens and other trees also do fine in the snowy cold, and various moss and what not likes caves. Lycan can survive in space, without food or water - it lays dormant, and then when brought back and given its normal conditions, returns to its normal activities.

They are the same, it's just frequency/motion. We have more. That's all.




~Seth-Ra

I could debate the hydroponics since it is not in pure water that plants grow. These nutrients or minerals mixed with solution i could consider to be Earth. (Coz what do plants get from the soil? Yea, mineral nutrients naturally from the soil or fertilizers)

Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral nutrient solution only or in an inert medium, such as perlite, gravel, mineral wool, expanded clay or coconut husk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

Seth-Ra, please link me to the lycans and your claim since i can't seem to find an internet article about them. Thanks.

Seth-Ra
04-09-2013, 09:15 PM
I could debate the hydroponics since it is not in pure water that plants grow. These nutrients or minerals mixed with solution i could consider to be Earth. (Coz what do plants get from the soil? Yea, mineral nutrients naturally from the soil or fertilizers)

Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral nutrient solution only or in an inert medium, such as perlite, gravel, mineral wool, expanded clay or coconut husk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

Seth-Ra, please link me to the lycans and your claim since i can't seem to find an internet article about them. Thanks.


Yes, they get minerals from it - just like we do from our food. You invalidate your own other arguments. LOL
They still dont have to be rooted to do it. Infact, ever been to Disney's EpCot? I have, and they have an entire hydroponic garden and lab where they get their own food to use in the restaurant housed in the same building. Its a neat tour. ;)

Also, plants dont need (real) sunlight - ever heard of someone growing pot in their closet - heat-lamp = man-made substitute. Ya know, like we can do in pill form for us. ;)
Plus the Fire element isnt limited to the sun alone.

I also apologize for my earlier misspelling - tis lichen, not lycan. XD lol that is a my-bad. However, the information is thus:


Lichens must compete with plants for access to sunlight, but because of their small size and slow growth, they thrive in places where higher plants have difficulty growing. Lichens are often the first to settle in places lacking soil, constituting the sole vegetation in some extreme environments such as those found at high mountain elevations and at high latitudes.[24] Some survive in the tough conditions of deserts, and others on frozen soil of the Arctic regions.


Recently, on 26 April 2012, scientists reported that lichen survived and showed remarkable results on the adaptation capacity of photosynthetic activity within the simulation time of 34 days under Martian conditions in the Mars Simulation Laboratory (MSL) maintained by the German Aerospace Center (DLR).


The European Space Agency has discovered that lichens can survive unprotected in space. In an experiment led by Leopoldo Sancho from the Complutense University of Madrid, two species of lichen—Rhizocarpon geographicum and Xanthoria elegans—were sealed in a capsule and launched on a Russian Soyuz rocket on 31 May 2005. Once in orbit the capsules were opened and the lichens were directly exposed to the vacuum of space with its widely fluctuating temperatures and cosmic radiation. After 15 days the lichens were brought back to earth and were found to be in full health with no discernible damage from their time in orbit.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichen


:cool:





~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 09:47 PM
plants need Light source, even if it's ARTIFICIAL.

Is this
http://pics1.ds-static.com/prodimg/219214/500.JPG Not ARTIFICIAL?


...the 5th element IS invisible, I guess you're just blind. lol
The 5th element IS invisible, however it is represented by the structures of the plants/animals. Land mammals have 1 head 2 arms and 2 legs (1+2+2=5) plants have the 1 set of roots, 1 trunk, 1 set of branches, 1 set of leaves, and 1 set of fruits/flowers (1+1+1+1+1=5)
Oh and yeah you are blind if you think Solomon is blind.(just thought I'd address this)

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:13 PM
The fact that hemoglobin are Fe2+ centered and chlorophyll are Mg2+ centered means that there exist different configurations. I would bring down my flag if hemoglobin are Mg2+ centered and give in that plants and humans are both the same fifth element.
I was not referring to the chemical composition but rather the physical/structural bonds and patterns; however, the chemical formulas are practically identical except for the central bonding element, Iron II+ and Magnesium II+

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8386/8635058689_067702c078_c.jpg (http://www.homeopathyone.com/hemoglobin.htm)
http://www.homeopathyone.com/images/heme.gif



A certain belief evolved about this green fluid. The fact that herbivora build hemoglobin (blood cell pigment) on a diet composed of leafy greens invites the hypothesis that derivatives of chlorophyll may be used in making hemoglobin. A Dr. Abderhalden, in his textbook, suggests that blood pigment might be made from plants.

Added to this biological relationship is the chemical similarity between chlorophyll and hemoglobin This was suggested by Verdeil in 1851, though on the basis of invalid evidence. It was substantiated in 1879 by Hoppe-Seyler, who showed a similarity between hematin and chlorophyll derivatives.

Willstater's work between 1906 and 1913 identified chlorophyll as an unstable water soluble magnesium compound characterized by ester groups of methyl and phytyl alcohol. He further showed both chlorophyll and hemoglobin to be closely related; both had some phyrrole fragments.

The first scientist to demonstrate the regenerative effect of chlorophyll on animals was Dr. Emil Burgi, who, in 1916, observed that rabbits rendered anemic by bleeding recovered more rapidly when chlorophyll was added to their diet.

Scott showed that a diet of milk, white bread and chlorophyll rebuilt blood faster than bread and milk. Scott and Delor noted that iron-and-copper-free alfalfa extract relieved milk induced anemia.

J. Howell Hughes and A.L. Latner, from the Department of Physiology, University of Liverpool, in a highly discriminative experiment, finally resolved the question of the blood regeneration capacity of chlorophyll. Rabbits were made anemic by daily bleeding, reducing the hemoglobin level to two-fifths of the normal value. The rabbits were split into two groups. The experimental received in diet chlorophyll in oil, the control only oil.

They performed five experiments. Three were with varying degrees of pure chlorophyll, one with large doses of crude chlorophyll (unrefined), and one with magnesium-free chlorophyll derivatives. The following is a summary of their findings.

*Pure chlorophyll in large doses has no effect on the speed of hemoglobin regeneration after hemorrhage. It seems large doses are toxic to the bone marrow.
*Very small doses of pure chlorophyll markedly increased the speed of hemoglobin regeneration to approximately its previous level.
*Crude chlorophyll is effective even in large doses. Hughes concludes: "It seems, therefore, that the animal body is capable of converting chlorophyll to hemoglobin."
This is in agreement with Zin, who, however, showed the effect of chlorophyll injection on the red blood cell count of animals not rendered anemic.

If you'd like to read the entire article/lesson please refer to the link below :)
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/application-of-food-combining-principles/chlorophyll-and-hemoglobin.html

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:24 PM
Is this
http://pics1.ds-static.com/prodimg/219214/500.JPG Not ARTIFICIAL?


The 5th element IS invisible, however it is represented by the structures of the plants/animals. Land mammals have 1 head 2 arms and 2 legs (1+2+2=5) plants have the 1 set of roots, 1 trunk, 1 set of branches, 1 set of leaves, and 1 set of fruits/flowers (1+1+1+1+1=5)
Oh and yeah you are blind if you think Solomon is blind.(just thought I'd address this)

You pointed out that UV rays are needed for vitamin D production. With Vitamin D supplements, theoretically sunlight could be put out of equation.

That's the point.

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:26 PM
Yes, they get minerals from it - just like we do from our food. You invalidate your own other arguments. LOL


I didn't invalidate it. I just extended it that it is the minerals that could be considered earth when at hydroponic/aquatic settings.

But plants are plants. Trees that you know of and the trees that i know of, grow in soil. I don't live floating in the water and so do you, im sure.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:30 PM
You pointed out that UV rays are needed for vitamin D production. With Vitamin D supplements, theoretically sunlight could be put out of equation.

That's the point.
Sooooo... what happens if the sun dies?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS__I_fRfoDd4hs1gv3gV7ETsb54GjT7 MioSach2_pbLZHqyLCj

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:30 PM
Sooooo... what happens if the sun dies?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS__I_fRfoDd4hs1gv3gV7ETsb54GjT7 MioSach2_pbLZHqyLCj

Plants die first. I'm sure of that.

LOL.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:34 PM
Things wouldn't die of starvation, but rather by either instantly freezing to death (collapsing on itself) or being consumed by the largest nuclear explosion this solar system have ever witnessed lol

Seth-Ra
04-09-2013, 10:35 PM
I didn't invalidate it. I just extended it that it is the minerals that could be considered earth when at hydroponic/aquatic settings.

But plants are plants. Trees that you know of and the trees that i know of, grow in soil. I don't live floating in the water and so do you, im sure.

You "extend" it to them, but not to us? Utter rubbish.

As long as something supports it, just about any plant/tree can grow like that. Consider its support earth if ya want - we have an earth-supports also, land itself, vessels made from earth - doesnt matte. The 4 are represented with both plants and animals. Call it "extend" all ya want, it still invalidates that they "run off the 4 and we dont".




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:36 PM
Things wouldn't die of starvation, but rather by either instantly freezing to death (collapsing on itself) or being consumed by the largest nuclear explosion this solar system have ever witnessed lol

won't happen in your lifetime

But I'm pretty sure that a man is alive in 7 days of darkness and a plant is already dead at the same span of time.

Let's be realistic here. For this is a realistic thread.

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:37 PM
You "extend" it to them, but not to us? Utter rubbish.

As long as something supports it, just about any plant/tree can grow like that. Consider its support earth if ya want - we have an earth-supports also, land itself, vessels made from earth - doesnt matte. The 4 are represented with both plants and animals. Call it "extend" all ya want, it still invalidates that they "run off the 4 and we dont".




~Seth-Ra


i guess you're not reading.

I specifically told in prior post that the food that humans eat might be considered Earth, but it is debatable because Carbs is a by product of photosynthesis. The minerals that the plants get are base minerals and existing as is.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:39 PM
no instant freezing not being in the dark, the thermal energy would disperse and everything would freeze even if not instant within the first day

Seth-Ra
04-09-2013, 10:40 PM
i guess you're not reading.

I specifically told in prior post that the food that humans eat might be considered Earth, but it is debatable because Carbs is a by product of photosynthesis. The minerals that the plants get are base minerals and existing as is.

Thats still a bias claim - some people do eat base minerals from the earth. Pregnant women in africa will eat clay to give themselves the direct minerals they are lacking.



~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:41 PM
And i notice one thing. it's always the same persons VSing me in my threads. 1 VS 2. Good thing Solomon is not VSing me anymore.

I find it amusing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRU-3ewYaRU

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:43 PM
The Lichen will survive

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/troll-face-meme-.png

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:45 PM
no instant freezing not being in the dark, the thermal energy would disperse and everything would freeze even if not instant within the first day


Thermal energy is out of equation because both humans and plants survive because of the same ambient conditions. The variable here is light/sunlight, that plants directly need sunlight and humans/animals directly don't.

glenerson
04-09-2013, 10:46 PM
The Lichen will survive

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/troll-face-meme-.png

just stating the obvious.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-09-2013, 10:49 PM
Humans can freeze to death

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSypFnVAbH-FcUVCLtR-5DhehBenSpqoNy1h3P22NMBxhu83ni_rA

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIyqF9fOdlLHiD04G0uqD-7N9tOkAg89SpbDCmumQ97NKyn3xn

solomon levi
04-10-2013, 05:57 AM
And i notice one thing. it's always the same persons VSing me in my threads. 1 VS 2. Good thing Solomon is not VSing me anymore.

I find it amusing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRU-3ewYaRU

:) well i'm in disagreement with almost everything you say. but i think you have VSd yourself enough in this thread. it's common alchemical and magical knowledge that 5th element is not visible. Even the four elements are not the dense ones we call fire, air and water.... only earth is physical in alchemy. it is obvious you haven't read much alchemy.
still, i appreciate your first post in this thread. the 5th element can be manifest by the rotation of the other four. it is there, but it is not the plant. the plant would yield a tiny amount of quintessence.
but i like that you are thinking independently and out of the box as it were. i have envisioned organic life as the neocortex of the earth-brain.

glenerson
04-10-2013, 11:40 AM
:) well i'm in disagreement with almost everything you say.

What does it mean? If you disagree with me then I'm not a part of harmonizing "Your All"?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY7mzX81HEU

solomon levi
04-10-2013, 05:51 PM
I'll repeat myself again...
Infinity excludes nothing which includes excluding something.
So of course you are a part of the all, which includes discord as well as harmony,
lies as well as truth, error as well as accuracy, thinking as well as seeing,
what is imagined as well as what is actual...

Disagreement is simply a difference in alignment/resonance.

glenerson
04-10-2013, 07:35 PM
I'll repeat myself again...
Infinity excludes nothing which includes excluding something.
So of course you are a part of the all, which includes discord as well as harmony,
lies as well as truth, error as well as accuracy, thinking as well as seeing,
what is imagined as well as what is actual...

Disagreement is simply a difference in alignment/resonance.


how will you resolve that you only hold the truth if you include falsities into your All? That means you have to choose from "The All" to know the truth? if The All is the Truth then what defined it as True?

Seth-Ra
04-10-2013, 09:43 PM
how will you resolve that you only hold the truth if you include falsities into your All?

The All cannot help but include people arriving at falsities. Even misperception is still perception - still Is. It merely needs focusing/proper context/definition.


That means you have to choose from "The All" to know the truth?

The All is Truth - for it Is.


if The All is the Truth then what defined it as True?

Because it IS.

Perhaps youre not grasping God saying "I AM". All that is, Is.
Truth, by its definition, is what Is.



~Seth-Ra

Seth-Ra
04-10-2013, 10:02 PM
And i notice one thing. it's always the same persons VSing me in my threads. 1 VS 2. Good thing Solomon is not VSing me anymore.

I find it amusing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRU-3ewYaRU


As far as this goes...

Im not "VSing" you. I point out flaws in the argument posed. Im not the only one pointing them out.
Besides that, without our "correcting" the misperception your present in so many threads, they would (apparently) receive very little, if any, input at all, except by you. (There are several that prove that point. For me, and by current results, i can only assume everyone is thinking the same; those ones just arent worth even bothering with.)

You find it ok to do your preaching all over the forum, but then become some sorta victim when misperceptions are found, pointed out, and corrected. So you "can talk, but anyone that doesnt agree, shouldnt" - thats the message you're sending.

Oh and why do you interpret our input towards your fractured (not Whole) arguments, as aggression towards you? Are you your argument? I recommend more growth. :)




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-10-2013, 10:11 PM
As far as this goes...

Im not "VSing" you. I point out flaws in the argument posed. Im not the only one pointing them out.
Besides that, without our "correcting" the misperception your present in so many threads, they would (apparently) receive very little, if any, input at all, except by you. (There are several that prove that point. For me, and by current results, i can only assume everyone is thinking the same; those ones just arent worth even bothering with.)

You find it ok to do your preaching all over the forum, but then become some sorta victim when misperceptions are found, pointed out, and corrected. So you "can talk, but anyone that doesnt agree, shouldnt" - thats the message you're sending.

Oh and why do you interpret our input towards your fractured (not Whole) arguments, as aggression towards you? Are you your argument? I recommend more growth. :)




~Seth-Ra


Do you think what you believe in is the Truth? The word "correcting" is not applicable. "Misperception" is not even applicable. It should be, "stating (our [sethra, lostgnosticoccultum, solomon levy] ) subjective views."

And why would you correct a view in a subject matter that teaches that all paths are correct? Hypocritical?

glenerson
04-10-2013, 10:13 PM
and it's aggression because it's almost in all the threads that i make. you nitpick something and you go all out until my thread is polluted/derailed.

Seth-Ra
04-10-2013, 11:12 PM
Do you think what you believe in is the Truth? The word "correcting" is not applicable. "Misperception" is not even applicable. It should be, "stating (our [sethra, lostgnosticoccultum, solomon levy] ) subjective views."

And why would you correct a view in a subject matter that teaches that all paths are correct? Hypocritical?

Im not preaching a belief. Im presenting more options, and expressing a Unity/Whole perception.

We are correcting, because your defining/wording is incorrect. As has been a large portion of your misperception, and thus misrepresentation, claiming "unity" which is actually duality. (As Solomon Levi pointed out elsewhere).

We arent correcting a "path" - we are correcting misconception/perception/representation. A lot of what you miss, is the context of things, or definition of things. This is why it is said you are "preaching".

If you knew/realized the All/One, youd realize how to express it. Instead, you express "cropped" (like in an image) perception, which leads to the misrepresentation/incorrect defining present in so many of your threads. You are preaching theory/belief, rather than sharing realized expression of what Is.


and it's aggression because it's almost in all the threads that i make. you nitpick something and you go all out until my thread is polluted/derailed.

Its aggression to engage in a person's threads and what its saying? If youre not interested in discussion, then see my post here again:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3510-The-Greatest-Story-Ever-Told-The-Alchemical-Recipe-of-Platinum&p=29185#post29185




~Seth-Ra

Kiorionis
04-10-2013, 11:55 PM
And why would you correct a view in a subject matter that teaches that all paths are correct? Hypocritical?

[. . .]

and it's aggression because it's almost in all the threads that i make. you nitpick something and you go all out until my thread is polluted/derailed.

From experience,
it's a habit with philosophers or those with philosophic minds to nit-pick. Everything must be defined properly and every variable discussed and put in its proper place.
Most books on philosophy are around one hundred pages, but most premises and conclusions only need one page to lay down.

solomon levi
04-11-2013, 02:55 AM
how will you resolve that you only hold the truth if you include falsities into your All? That means you have to choose from "The All" to know the truth? if The All is the Truth then what defined it as True?

this is your silliness, not mine. you resolve it.

as Einstein said, “We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”

my thinking is already different from yours... you won't/can't hear me.

i never said i only hold the truth, so i don't need to resolve it.
i would have to choose if i believed in truth VS false. instead i see relativity and context within the whole/All. i don't have to choose/exclude... i just change my perspective which i learned to keep fluid/mobile, not fixed. i am relatively fixed in fluidity...

solomon levi
04-11-2013, 03:08 AM
Do you think what you believe in is the Truth? The word "correcting" is not applicable. "Misperception" is not even applicable. It should be, "stating (our [sethra, lostgnosticoccultum, solomon levy] ) subjective views."

And why would you correct a view in a subject matter that teaches that all paths are correct? Hypocritical?

you can't help yourself from mistranslating. who said "all paths are correct"? you take things out of context because you consistently ignore relativity.
you, in your dualism, have swung to the other extreme... "Oneness only is true" We haven't said that. We say All includes Oneness and plurality. You just dont listen.
Keep this up and you will be banned. This is not a forum for your games. it's for the sincere and for those who respect eachother enough to not waste their time by continually ignoring and misrepresenting others.

glenerson
04-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Ban me? Because our views don't meet?

Wow. Just Wow. Get your sheeples here then and uphold your delusional subjective version of your false "The All." and give yourself a tap in the butt and enjoy your warm fuzzy feelings.

If all are relative, it follows that all paths are correct. Depends on point of view.

It's for the people "who respect each other"? Obviously you don't respect my views by attacking 99% of my threads so you three are just fucking hypocrites. Charlatans and faux "alchemists".

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 02:55 PM
Ban me? Because our views don't meet?
No he is saying that YOU are being closed minded and attacking our views saying that we are always wrong and that we do not understand your views, when in-fact we do. To view the whole you MUST see the parts. We have never "Attacked" your views, we present a logical argument and give decisive depictions and descriptions of both sides of the argument while you ignore these examples and most-likely even the words in our posts, you may "read" them but do you"READ" them i.e. do you think upon them and try to understand them? the answer here is simply, NO.


It's for the people "who respect each other"? Obviously you don't respect my views by attacking 99% of my threads so you three are just fucking hypocrites. Charlatans and faux "alchemists".
this here is an un acceptable remark. we have never called names of said that you are not an alchemist or a gnostic or christian or whatever you want to say you are we have only "Argued the Point NOT the Person." (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2854-Argue-the-point-not-the-person)

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:04 PM
No he is saying that YOU are being closed minded and attacking our views saying that we are always wrong and that we do not understand your views, when in-fact we do. To view the whole you MUST see the parts. We have never "Attacked" your views, we present a logical argument and give decisive depictions and descriptions of both sides of the argument while you ignore these examples and most-likely even the words in our posts, you may "read" them but do you"READ" them i.e. do you think upon them and try to understand them? the answer here is simply, NO.

Now you wash hands. Check at your posts, bro. Mind as well.

I never attacked any of your views first. The fact that i "told you that you're wrong" is when you first tell me that I'm wrong. I didn't instigate. I'm always defensive. You could check if I bothered to append/reply to your posts or threads telling you that you're wrong.

Last time I check, it's always you that does that.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:11 PM
did you not read my post at all? We understand your view, we see it as correct "From the Valley" HOWEVER it is not the ALL view, which is what we present we never say your view is wrong altogether but is incomplete without the ALL view to complement it, and when we bring the ALL view into it you say that that our view is wrong. My aforementioned post stands true as it is.

Seth-Ra
04-11-2013, 03:12 PM
Also, yes, this is a better one glenerson. :)

Remember that, back at the beginning of this thread? There was no "attack". The opposite infact.

No one was excluding what you said.


i like the point of the place of plants in the chain too, but the 5th element is invisible by definition. this doesn't lessen the significance of plants, but as Seth-Ra pointed out, the animal kingdom is also the five elements, no less significant. plants, animals and minerals exist from quintessence. i like Glen's view that they also generate quintessence, if i am understanding him correctly.


SL liked it also, we merely extended it from plants to animals, which is natural, it Is, we just pointed it out to "bring it home" as it were. Nothing was being excluded.


I don't agree...

You were the first one to exclude something from the equation - then you wonder why we say your presented view is fractured/not-whole....


Im not "VSing" you. I point out flaws in the argument posed. Im not the only one pointing them out.

....

Oh and why do you interpret our input towards your fractured (not Whole) arguments, as aggression towards you? Are you your argument? I recommend more growth. :)

You ignore this, you cannot take input from someone else if it doesnt out-right agree with your fracture, and anything that isnt in that agreement, you find as an attack, or aggression, even though ive said its not.

You honestly think your argument is you - by your thought youre creating a false image of yourself (ego/fractured argument) and thus cant handle it being thrown into the fire. Why would you do that to yourself?


you can't help yourself from mistranslating. who said "all paths are correct"? you take things out of context because you consistently ignore relativity.
you, in your dualism, have swung to the other extreme... "Oneness only is true" We haven't said that. We say All includes Oneness and plurality. You just dont listen.
Keep this up and you will be banned. This is not a forum for your games. it's for the sincere and for those who respect eachother enough to not waste their time by continually ignoring and misrepresenting others.

Its obvious that a ban would be done because you are misrepresenting the words and arguments of the other members - and trying to act like a victim of some sort of "attack" when we try to have a discussion with you.


Ban me? Because our views don't meet?

Wow. Just Wow. Get your sheeples here then and uphold your delusional subjective version of your false "The All." and give yourself a tap in the butt and enjoy your warm fuzzy feelings.

If all are relative, it follows that all paths are correct. Depends on point of view.

It's for the people "who respect each other"? Obviously you don't respect my views by attacking 99% of my threads so you three are just fucking hypocrites. Charlatans and faux "alchemists".

Its not because the "views dont meet" - as i pointed out, we didnt exclude yours - you rejected something that Is, even though that very thing doesnt remotely harm or conflict with what you originally said. You looked for a fight and are perceiving one.

You call our demonstration of the All as false - even though you excluded things, not us.

The hypocrisy youre looking for, is what you are projecting.

Also, how is that we, who are and have shown work, both spiritual/philosophical and applicable/practical, are charlatans and faux "alchemists"? Again, you are projecting, seeing as how you have done neither except repeatedly preach fragmented logic with nothing backing them.

Your ability to carry on a cool-headed and even somewhat rational conversation is quickly slipping away. (just look at the madness back there with LGO lol :p )
If you have nothing but negative perceptions of members to project onto them every time they say something, then by all means...


Go back to the shadow.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130106225015/lotr/images/4/40/GandalfVSBalrog.jpg

lol :cool:





~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:19 PM
Exactly As Seth-Ra has said it



Go back to the shadow.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130106225015/lotr/images/4/40/GandalfVSBalrog.jpg

Also i like this :cool:

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:19 PM
did you not read my post at all? We understand your view, we see it as correct "From the Valley" HOWEVER it is not the ALL view, which is what we present we never say your view is wrong altogether but is incomplete without the ALL view to complement it, and when we bring the ALL view into it you say that that our view is wrong. My aforementioned post stands true as it is.


You know what the ultimate JOKE is? That you claim that your view is THE ALL view.

I don't even claim that I know THE ALL, because I know who KNOWS THE ALL, and certainly not you.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:25 PM
I'm not sure wether to reply ROLFLMFAO or
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8638888232_1e959dceb4.jpg

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:27 PM
Remember that, back at the beginning of this thread? There was no "attack". The opposite infact.

No one was excluding what you said.



SL liked it also, we merely extended it from plants to animals, which is natural, it Is, we just pointed it out to "bring it home" as it were. Nothing was being excluded.



You were the first one to exclude something from the equation - then you wonder why we say your presented view is fractured/not-whole....



You ignore this, you cannot take input from someone else if it doesnt out-right agree with your fracture, and anything that isnt in that agreement, you find as an attack, or aggression, even though ive said its not.

You honestly think your argument is you - by your thought youre creating a false image of yourself (ego/fractured argument) and thus cant handle it being thrown into the fire. Why would you do that to yourself?



Its obvious that a ban would be done because you are misrepresenting the words and arguments of the other members - and trying to act like a victim of some sort of "attack" when we try to have a discussion with you.



Its not because the "views dont meet" - as i pointed out, we didnt exclude yours - you rejected something that Is, even though that very thing doesnt remotely harm or conflict with what you originally said. You looked for a fight and are perceiving one.

You call our demonstration of the All as false - even though you excluded things, not us.

The hypocrisy youre looking for, is what you are projecting.

Also, how is that we, who are and have shown work, both spiritual/philosophical and applicable/practical, are charlatans and faux "alchemists"? Again, you are projecting, seeing as how you have done neither except repeatedly preach fragmented logic with nothing backing them.

Your ability to carry on a cool-headed and even somewhat rational conversation is quickly slipping away. (just look at the madness back there with LGO lol :p )
If you have nothing but negative perceptions of members to project onto them every time they say something, then by all means...



http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130106225015/lotr/images/4/40/GandalfVSBalrog.jpg

lol :cool:





~Seth-Ra

The point of the thread is to materialize the 5th element. That is the complementary view to the traditional view that the 5th element is invisible.

And while the complementary view that the 5th element is material, we have this attack from Solomon that 5th element is invisible. So he maintained the fractured view. and then the sheeples were again activated.

That's what basically went.

Don't be oblivious to this. And nice Drawing. I see the Rod of Aaron and Sword of Light of Nuada on that man's hand.

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure wether to reply ROLFLMFAO or
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8638888232_1e959dceb4.jpg


Why man? Just stating the Obvious. Only God knows the ALL view. Stop pretending that your view is "THE ALL" view.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:32 PM
Why man? Just stating the Obvious. Only God knows the ALL view. Stop pretending that your view is "THE ALL" view.

Again

I'm not sure wether to reply ROLFLMFAO or
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8638888232_1e959dceb4.jpg

Seth-Ra
04-11-2013, 03:32 PM
The point of the thread is to materialize the 5th element. That is the complementary view to the traditional view that the 5th element is invisible.

And while the complementary view that the 5th element is material, we have this attack from Solomon that 5th element is invisible. So he maintained the fractured view. and then the sheeples were again activated.

That's what basically went.

Don't be oblivious to this. And nice Drawing. I see the Rod of Aaron and Sword of Light of Nuada on that man's hand.

It is invisible to most, it is seen in the motion/Life of everything. It is both.

You excluded the animals, key words being you excluded. Stop trying to change the argument. (as if you could - its plainly seeable by anyone that wants to go back and read. lol)

I almost feel the need to re-post LGO's Face-Palm picture...




~Seth-Ra

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:36 PM
yeah, your picture replies tell you how good of an alchemist you are. KTHX.

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:39 PM
It is invisible to most, it is seen in the motion/Life of everything. It is both.

You excluded the animals, key words being you excluded. Stop trying to change the argument. (as if you could - its plainly seeable by anyone that wants to go back and read. lol)

I almost feel the need to re-post LGO's Face-Palm picture...




~Seth-Ra

I excluded that animals not because i liked it to be excluded, that i refuse to see "the whole". I presented my reasons why, right? I presented the view that in plants can be found the 5th element and animals are dependent on the 5th element.


And you're diverging from the real point that Solomon made. That HE REFUSED TO SEE THE FIFTH ELEMENT AS MATERIAL because the POINT OF THE THREAD IS TO SEE THE 5TH ELEMENT AS MATERIAL (IN PLANTS).

Seth-Ra
04-11-2013, 03:41 PM
yeah, your picture replies tell you how good of an alchemist you are. KTHX.

You obviously have difficulty understanding words, so we express with pictures also. ;)

Oh, but i forgot, since these dont have your version of the zodiac with your little lines drawn all through it, you dont agree with them. :p


I excluded that animals not because i liked it to be excluded, that i refuse to see "the whole". I presented my reasons why, right? I presented the view that in plants can be found the 5th element and animals are dependent on the 5th element.


And you're diverging from the real point that Solomon made. That HE REFUSED TO SEE THE FIFTH ELEMENT AS MATERIAL because the POINT OF THE THREAD IS TO SEE THE 5TH ELEMENT AS MATERIAL (IN PLANTS).

We combated your supposed reasons and you ignored it and the conversation quickly plummeted.

It is invisible, it can also be seen. SL didnt discriminate it - youre whole point is wanting to make it material - he provided the opposite to balance it out.


Since you no longer can carry on a decent conversation, im done replying to you until you re-learn the skill.




~Seth-Ra

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:41 PM
It is invisible to most, it is seen in the motion/Life of everything. It is both.

You excluded the animals, key words being you excluded. Stop trying to change the argument. (as if you could - its plainly seeable by anyone that wants to go back and read. lol)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8639659527_246bd94cfc_n.jpg


I almost feel the need to re-post LGO's Face-Palm picture...
Why i posted it bro :cool:

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:45 PM
Since you no longer can carry on a decent conversation, im done replying to you until you re-learn the skill.

Also

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8524/8639659527_246bd94cfc_n.jpg


Welllll... maybe not entirely :cool:

LostGnosticOccultum
04-11-2013, 03:50 PM
Only God knows the ALL view. Stop pretending that your view is "THE ALL" view.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8385/8637784249_2a87f35ea6.jpg
you don't believe in an "All knowing" GOD you believe in the demiurge so.....

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:54 PM
It is invisible, it can also be seen. SL didnt discriminate it - youre whole point is wanting to make it material - he provided the opposite to balance it out. ~Seth-Ra

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3523-Pragmatic-Guide-To-The-Four-Alchemical-Elements&p=29251#post29251

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3523-Pragmatic-Guide-To-The-Four-Alchemical-Elements&p=29272#post29272

If its invisible, it is amorphous. It can't be particularized. Thus solomon extended it to animals too.

My point is that it is visible. It can be particularized. And pinpointed that the plants are the materialization of the 5th element.

There is the traditional view that it is invisible. and what i pose is a new view. So what I did was to extend Solomon's view. But he maintained, in a friendly manner, the properties and why it is invisible.

So who extended what? Who provided the additional view. Coz fragmentation is obvious if you don't accomodate the new view. For it would not suffice your definition of "the Wh-All" if the new view is discarded.

glenerson
04-11-2013, 03:55 PM
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8385/8637784249_2a87f35ea6.jpg
you don't believe in an "All knowing" GOD you believe in the demiurge so.....

Says the One who claims who has the ALL VIEW. Jokes on you man.

hexahedron
02-09-2014, 08:40 PM
I understand the elements quite differently... I was under the impression that the elements are forces. The fifth element aether is the existential force. .. within aether the four elements are realized. Ie aether is transformed into/can contain the four elements.

After all... everything comes from one material. .. The prima materia.

So fire is an expanding force. .. if you light fire on all sides of the planet it would go "up" in all directions (out)

Likewise water contracts... rain clouds on all sides of the earth rain down (in)

Earth stands still and air moves...

So you could say that human breathing always moves o2 co2 (this is the heart chakra)
Earth is stool/feces...digestion... purification... all things digested "stay" in the body.. they harmonize to the body and become grounded in it
Oil can be contained fire... some kind of combination of fire and water or earth or both
Our cells divide and explode expanding outwards... some force such as atmosphere contracts to counter the outward movement.. this comes to equilibrium to make an earth state.
we control our amounts of water by our bladder which corresponds to the sacral chakra.
our triple burner burns the fat in our midsection. This corresponds to the solar plexus (aptly named for the sun but also for other reasons)
The universe was, at one time, solely explained by these four elements... there was no chemistry understanding of the periodic table of elements. So to me that is a more basic, fundamental alchemy. Mixing in chemistry could be useful but gets away from the basic ideas. Im working from a theoretical and symbolic manner