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i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 06:47 PM
Mod Note:

This is a Spin-Off Thread, extracted (:)) from the Saffron Extract Thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3550-Saffron-Extract&p=29646#post29646), since that discussion went off-topic to Swedish Bitters and from there to What is an 'Alchemical' Extraction, finally ending with i only know nothing (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?8434-i-only-know-nothing) (a.k.a. Leo Retilus (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?358-LeoRetilus), a.k.a. RogerC) (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?1011-rogerc) instigating some trolling and flaming, which will be either deleted or moved elsewhere.
________________________

You guys could save yourselves alot of trouble at the same time getting past the placebo effect alot quicker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_bitters

And here you can buy the concentrate:http://www.swedishbitters.com/swedish-bitters-concentrate-30ml

I was watching one of my childhood favorites Pete's dragon the other day and wondered how it must have been back in the ole days of traveling quacks peddling their wares, tonics, oil, purrgative, laxitives etc

Wow look at the reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Nature-Works-Swedish/product-reviews/B0015KGYAE/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R1Y57RBM089MQF


" If you are Deaf , you will hear again , after 30 drops in your ears, for 30 days "...lol

Well hell I might try some for my acid reflux, maybe this productcan be further "philosophised"

LostGnosticOccultum
04-22-2013, 07:02 PM
You guys could save yourselves alot of trouble at the same time getting past the placebo effect alot quicker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_bitters

And here you can buy the concentrate:http://www.swedishbitters.com/swedish-bitters-concentrate-30ml

I was watching one of my childhood favorites Pete's dragon the other day and wondered how it must have been back in the ole days of traveling quacks peddling their wares, tonics, oil, purrgative, laxitives etc

Yeeeeaaahhh, no it's not even close to the same as preparing it yourself, you cannot influence the energies on a preprepaired thing like this which is the whole point of doing it yourself, plus the carp that is commercially sold has additives and preservatives (even if they claim it's organic its not)

Krisztian
04-22-2013, 07:06 PM
You guys could save yourselves alot of trouble at the same time getting past the placebo effect alot quicker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_bitters

Spagyrics is also about initiations, that happens when one engages in this kind of work oneself. Buying it doesn't provide the learning of 'the process'.


And here you can buy the concentrate:http://www.swedishbitters.com/swedish-bitters-concentrate-30ml

I'm quite familiar with this recipe, while I respect the knowledge of the Austrian herbalist Treben, the precise amount of herbs is crucial. While one can have the list of herbs, again, the process may reveal another product of the same listed herbs where the proper proportions are met.

Krisztian
04-22-2013, 07:09 PM
I'm quite familiar with this recipe, while I respect the knowledge of the Austrian herbalist Treben, the precise amount of herbs is crucial. While one can have the list of herbs, again, the process may reveal another product of the same listed herbs where the proper proportions are met.

What I meant to say was that I don't believe Treben has the original recipe of Paracelsus. It looks to be a modern knock-off.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-22-2013, 07:16 PM
Spagyrics is also about initiations, that happens when one engages in this kind of work oneself. Buying it doesn't provide the learning of 'the process'.

Exactly! :cool:

LostGnosticOccultum
04-22-2013, 07:17 PM
What I meant to say was that I don't believe Treben has the original recipe of Paracelsus. It looks to be a modern knock-off.

Most likely

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 09:11 PM
Quack, quack, quack, mumbo gumbo, pseudoscience, pathological science, if I marcerate herbs into spiritus vini, I'll get the same crap as anybody else, you Trebena or whatever her name was or anybody else. Don't give me that sprageric initiation bull crap, any extra effects you percieve from you doing the extraction yourself is pure placebo, had you two infused the slightest bit of alchemy into your rhetoric I might be inclined to be led down a certain road, however without the proper observance of the season, the temperature, the phase of the moon, the time of day, the imposition of the rule of the elements, the rotation of the alchemical wheel, there is nothing here other than what spiritus vini will extract from the herb, which you can buy on amazon as easily as making it yourself. Did you read the reviews on amazon, it must be every bit as potent as Paracelsus'. Herbology is not spragerics nor is it alchemy my ill informed comrades, it is more akin to homeopathy, but here for the initiates of the green science mother nature has taught her students how to read plants and through various types of association have seen the microscosm mirrored in the greater world and realized that certain plants heal the human constitution through certain hidden and occult "sympathies", while some are much more apparent, here I mean visually. Let me give you an example, the milk thistle exudes a milky fluid, that was traditionally prescribed for women who need help in lactating, and guess what..it works, milk thistle extract is still made to this day and you can pick some up from any health supplement store. Some plants are lunar some as solar, some are cold and soothing some are bitter and astringent, what is important is to look at their qualities on all levels, outward appearance included, some appear as feminine some as masculine, each with its own astral spirit mirrored in its physical form, when you can see all of this you have been, "initiated." And you can make your own prescriptions based on these sympathies just as Paracelsus had done. There was nothing special about the man except that he was a supreme booster, and liked to draw attention to himself.
Its all interesting even at this level, and one can but marvel at the engineering prowness of the almighty, eternal omnipotent God, but alchemy it still does not make.

Kiorionis
04-22-2013, 09:53 PM
one reason this thread in the 'Spagyrics and Entheogens' subforum, i suppose..
Find their alchemical work in the supra- Practical Alchemy forum, they're very good/interesting reads.


Yeeeeaaahhh, no it's not even close to the same as preparing it yourself, you cannot influence the energies on a preprepaired thing like this which is the whole point of doing it yourself, plus the carp that is commercially sold has additives and preservatives (even if they claim it's organic its not)

and about influencing the energies on a prepaired matter, are you talking about connecting to it through the imagination or manipulating the proportions (energies/elements/vibrations/etc.) of the substance? I suppose you could be talking about both as well.

I for one, with my new and improved tinctures, plan on using mantras in correspondence with their ingestion to help connect and condense the vibrations. Any thoughts on this?

Krisztian
04-22-2013, 10:39 PM
I for one, with my new and improved tinctures, plan on using mantras in correspondence with their ingestion to help connect and condense the vibrations. Any thoughts on this?

John H. Reid III and his work on Minor Opus speaks to what you intend on carrying out. He was able to complete it because of visualizations, mantras, meditations, etc.; he speaks on the importance of 'being one with the evolving ingredients', take a look Russ House's Triad Publishing, found here http://www.triad-publishing.com/cgi-bin/softcart.exe/Store/p-DVD-R-10.html?L+scstore+jsgt4337ffe222e2+1366671404


Quack, quack, quack, mumbo gumbo, pseudoscience, pathological science, if I marcerate herbs into spiritus vini, I'll get the same crap as anybody else, you Trebena or whatever her name was or anybody else. Don't give me that sprageric initiation bull crap. . . .

Atomic physicist Jenő Pál Wigner, as well as Bohm (to list two among many), have clearly established that the observer has direct influence upon matter, I'm not sure what you mean by "pathological science"?

My other point is actually shared by Amalux found here, http://www.amaluxherbal.com/paracelsus_elixir_swedish_bitters.htm was surprised to find it but I guess initiation has it's advantages.

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 11:09 PM
Formula is a marketing word, an extract is an extract not a "formula", does anybody know the exact quantites of herbs that went into Paracelsus "formula", does it matter? No it doesn't cause don't we know if he measured before or after the herbs were crushed, were they used fresh or dry, if dry they weigh differently in water to plant material ratio, also depending on at which point during the growth was the herb harvested, at certain points a plant gets ripe, its "mercury" is converted to "sulfur." At this point it gets more or less potent. There is no one true "formula" that one posses more potency that the other does not, it doesn't matter anyways cause one could just up the dosage, and because these chemicals don't mix with each other to produce a different compound, they are all only extracts, and if you read Trebena's webpage she says herself she only used the short circulation not the long, the long being of course more alchemical if you are familiar with Paracelsus' work, so why don't you buy it from Amalux since according to them they used the long method which probably involves an alchemical circulation or two.

Kiorionis
04-22-2013, 11:11 PM
Is that book anything like the pdf, John Reid's Course on Practical Alchemy?
on second thought, probably not. because I don't remember him talking about visulizations or mantras.

So thanks for the link! I'll look into it.

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 11:25 PM
Atomic physicist Jenő Pál Wigner, as well as Bohm (to list two among many), have clearly established that the observer has direct influence upon matter, I'm not sure what you mean by "pathological science"?

Ha, you must be joking right, read what you wrote, atomic physicist, yes when manipulating matter at the quantum level, Striping down molecules, into atoms and even further to the quatum level, lol, do you take your concoctions down to the quantum level? Strip it down to bosons and fermions do you? , tell me by what method do you defeat the strong nuclear force so that you can see these anomolus effects in matter, do you elongate it to the superdeformed s-ormes state, lol, like David Hudson, yes this is pseudo/pathological science, you see this sort of thing touted by Barry Carter and the "ormus entusiaists" all pedding their wares on the internet to poor unsuspecting peoples.

solomon levi
04-22-2013, 11:34 PM
there is nothing in this universe superior to consciousness, which humans have an infinite fountain of if they find/realise it. an alchemist is not separate from the universe, all times, all planets, all signatures... s/he encompasses them.
everything is true. everything is placebo. 'scientifically proven' is a grosser form of placebo. all reality is placebo.

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 11:39 PM
My other point is actually shared by Amalux found here, http://www.amaluxherbal.com/paracelsus_elixir_swedish_bitters.htm was surprised to find it but I guess initiation has it's advantages.

At any rate thanks for the link I'll buy some from this outfit, what the hay, notice that you have to finish the "formulation" yourself, by letting the contents saturate in alcohol in the sun for alternate lengths of time:


How to prepare Paracelsus Elixir
Ingredients: 100 Gr. Paracelsus Elixir powders
1.5 Liter Alcohol (40% per cent)

The best alcohol is alcohol derived from fruit (fruit spirit) - Cognac, Grappa. Fruit derived alcohols are best, grape derived alcohols are preferable.

There are two popular methods to prepare Paracelsus Elixir - Swedish Bitters one method is faster, the other slower. Both methods are good, but there is one very important thing that cannot be overlooked and this is the final color of the liquid. The finished Paracelsus Elixir – Swedish Bitter is dark brown in color, like strong coffee, other wise it is not Paracelsus Elixir.

In general the directions call for the powders and alcohol to sit for at least 21 – 28 days; this is just a guideline. In order for the Paracelsus Elixir to be ready in that length of time, the conditions have to be ideal, such as temperatures and sunshine, otherwise it may take considerably longer, especially in the winter time, it can take up to two months.

Important: Always remember that the color of the Paracelsus Elixir has to be dark brown like strong coffee; otherwise it is not ready for use.

Preparation Method No. 1

Take 100 grams of the Paracelsus Elixir powder and .75 liter (750 ml) alcohol. Mix the two ingredients in a large mouthed resealable jar and shake it a few times every day, expose to daylight on a window sill or sunshine at room temperature for 14 days. Or, until the color is a dark-coffee-brown. Then filter it through clean cloth and keep the now moist powders. Place this liquid in an amber bottle sealed in a dark place. Then add the other .75 liter of alcohol to the Paracelsus Elixir powders for and additional 4 to 7 days and expose it to daylight or sunshine, shake it well every day. The second tincturing may not be as dark as the first. Then filter this mixture. Add this liquid to the first liquid. Now, you have your Paracelsus Elixir – Swedish Bitters.

Preparation Method No. 2

Take 100 grams Paracelsus Elixir powders and 1.5 liter alcohol. Mix it well and shake it every day, expose this mixture to daylight on a window sill and or sunshine for 28 days (a Lunar month) should by then, the color of the liquid not be as expected (dark brown) leave it, until it has the right color. Then filter it well, if necessary, two or even three times. Fill it up in amber bottles and store in a dark place

LostGnosticOccultum
04-22-2013, 11:48 PM
Quack, quack, quack, mumbo gumbo, pseudoscience, pathological science.
If you believe alchemy to be a pseudoscience why are you here on an alchemy forum? Just saying.

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 11:50 PM
there is nothing in this universe superior to consciousness, which humans have an infinite fountain of if they find/realise it. an alchemist is not separate from the universe, all times, all planets, all signatures... s/he encompasses them.
everything is true. everything is placebo. 'scientifically proven' is a grosser form of placebo. all reality is placebo.

Some of what you said there is true some not, the consciousness of humans is weak, nothing in the universe is superior to the consciousness of God, God put into all things an anima mundi, a mind, which works to engender salt, sulfur and mercury, which is physical form, spirit and soul, each of these plants under discussion already carries that on it that was engrafted upon it by the anima mundi, its is this each in its own way that cures by way of sympathies, your febble consciousness cannot alter the anima mundi, and change how these plant tinctures react upon the human constitution, can you transmute a thistle into a rose? No you only plant the appriopriate seed, read Basil's 12 Keys, the creation of the seed is reserved for God.

i only know nothing
04-22-2013, 11:58 PM
Quack, quack, quack, mumbo gumbo, pseudoscience, pathological science.
If you believe alchemy to be a pseudoscience why are you here on an alchemy forum? Just saying.Cause I'm a real alchemist, but real alchemy doesn't pertain to plants, a bit of a study of philosophy will get you out of that quagmire. Alchemy doesn't need pseudoscientific babble to prove its existence, all I have to do is look in the mirror or out in nature, alchemy is the spiritual side of matter, the "life", even hard science can't explain life nor create it, it is hidden, occult, that is why we must study it to pierce the veil for ourselves but its not for everyone, one must develop a life long obession for it and pray for guidance and illumination, you must believe in God or you are already lost.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-22-2013, 11:59 PM
and about influencing the energies on a prepaired matter, are you talking about connecting to it through the imagination or manipulating the proportions (energies/elements/vibrations/etc.) of the substance? I suppose you could be talking about both as well.

Energetic work is not "imaginary" it is when an individual uses his or her chi/prana (life energy/source energy) to selectively influence/manipulate an alchemical/spgayrical work/experiment.

i only know nothing
04-23-2013, 12:20 AM
Energetic work is not "imaginary" it is when an individual uses his or her chi/prana (life energy/source energy) to selectively influence/manipulate an alchemical/spgayrical work/experiment.

Why don't you try projecting your chi into water and try changing it into wine, now we are onto chi, huh, ok, go read some about Grand Master Zhou who is a qi gong master who can heat matter to near boiling point(+200F), you will realize that chi is only useful when transformed into another force, particularly heat, nobody can "project chi", we can only circulate it, and transform it into visible and psychic heat to help free up blockages in others so that they can realize a corrected circulation as well, here again we are not Gods only men, if you could project chi you could reanimate the dead, etc,etc.

Kiorionis
04-23-2013, 12:47 AM
Energetic work is not "imaginary" it is when an individual uses his or her chi/prana (life energy/source energy) to selectively influence/manipulate an alchemical/spgayrical work/experiment.

Then we agree on the most of it, I think. By 'Imagination' I mean something different from a thing which is imaginary or false. My division of the mind is into three, like the Godhead: Imagination, Will, and Reason. And for short definitions of each: Imagination is that which gives us the ability to call up an image -- anything we choose; Will is the use of mental energy, or the Fire of the Mind (a division of the soul, I am led to believe), which calls up the image; Reason is that which is given us in order to determine which path to take, and follows logical laws whereas the other two are more chaotic. In my mind the three work together, and are all the same Mind or the Individual.

Could also be explained as Salt (Reason), Sulphur (Will) and Mercury (Imagination).

and of course all of this is relative to my understanding of things, as much as everything else is.

Kiorionis
04-23-2013, 12:55 AM
Why don't you try projecting your chi into water and try changing it into wine, now we are onto chi, huh, ok, go read some about Grand Master Zhou who is a qi gong master who can heat matter to near boiling point(+200F), you will realize that chi is only useful when transformed into another force, particularly heat, nobody can "project chi", we can only circulate it, and transform it into visible and psychic heat to help free up blockages in others so that they can realize a corrected circulation as well, here again we are not Gods only men, if you could project chi you could reanimate the dead, etc,etc.

Well if you are a Christian and believe the miracles of Christ, then it's completely possible to turn water into wine if you've built up enough of the appropriate energies.

And actually, projecting chi is very simple:
Take your dominant hand and make a pointing-finger. Focus the mind on projecting a stream of chi out of this finger and onto your other arm while at the same time moving your pointing-finger up and down the opposite arm. Of course they should not be touching. If you do it right (that is, are able to circulate your chi correctly and are able to focus) then you should feel the stream of chi on your other arm.

and if you search the web for chi manipulation exercises, you'll find a ton of things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIGw5OxVFY
(chi manipulation with candle)

i only know nothing
04-23-2013, 01:19 AM
Well if you are a Christian and believe the miracles of Christ, then it's completely possible to turn water into wine if you've built up enough of the appropriate energies.

And actually, projecting chi is very simple:
Take your dominant hand and make a pointing-finger. Focus the mind on projecting a stream of chi out of this finger and onto your other arm while at the same time moving your pointing-finger up and down the opposite arm. Of course they should not be touching. If you do it right (that is, are able to circulate your chi correctly and are able to focus) then you should feel the stream of chi on your other arm.

and if you search the web for chi manipulation exercises, you'll find a ton of things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIGw5OxVFY
(chi manipulation with candle)

Me believing in the miracles of Christ no matter how strongly I believe in them does not give me the power of a God, Christ was God incarnate or as much of him that could be squeezed into a perishable and feeble shell such as the human form. For all my wants, desires,faith, knowledge and imaginations I am still human and very much limited.

I know plenty about the manipulation of chi, my friend I am a medical qi gong practictioner.

i only know nothing
04-23-2013, 02:14 AM
This is a thread about Saffron extract not about what true Alchemy is, there is enough about true Alchemy in the practical section. Let's see some of your work there... Oh, you didn't show anything except for your theories. What a shame!

Plant extracts are plant extracts, alchemy is alchemy, I was discussing the plant extract but somebody wanted to say how alchemical it was, cause they were performing the extraction and not another person or pharmaceutical company, and that there's was better or more 'philosophical" which is completely bogus and superstitous, lets see how did brother Homerus put it in the Golden Chain of Homer.


That I have said, however, that this universal seed from the reborn Chaos or rainwater, that is, Nitrum, is not much better — just as salt — than common Nitrum and salt, is due to the fact that any work can be done with one as with the other, and there is no difference in the effect, unless one were more purified than the other. But if they are equally pure, one is like the other, and no artist should allow himself to be mistaken in this, if someone were to say that this is Nitrum Vulgi but the other Nitrum Philoso¬phorum — it would be pure superstition. If common Nitrum produces the same effect as the other, it is indeed for me Nitrum Philosophorum.

And what scruple should one feel about this? For those little ¬experienced laboratory workers every single thing must be doubled, one must be called Subjectum Vulgi - and that is generally rejected -but the other is called Subjectum Philosophrum, and that one is accepted; but when it comes to the point, they themselves do not know which is Subjecturn Vulgi andwhich Philosophorum. They im¬immediately say: yes, it cannot be fathomed by human intelligence.

112



God must always perform a miracle and reveal the subject in a dream or by an adept, while it is often a laboratory worker’s own want of sense (which is the cause of his failure) because he does not pay attention to what he has in hand, to what he is doing, to what kind of result he has achieved. He does not examine the circumstances, he does not look to derive further advantage from a chance discovery through reflection.

Has this done this? How? If I now added this or removed that, what would become of it? Instead, he lets it go, although he should keep this saying in mind: Inventie facile est adders - invented things are easily improved. Supposing an unlearned mason watches a house being built. He builds the house according’ to his simple understanding, and when he has finished building he notices in time a few faults. From this he immediately concludes: Look, if I had done thus, it would be more comfortable; here I should have built in an iron bar, and it would be stronger; or here some wood, or a big durable stone, or here a square high or low room, etc. If now he no longer wanted this house, sold it and built another, he would already have ten advantages to correct the previous mistakes. In the same way a laboratory worker or chymist should proceed when he has made a mistake. He should carefully examine it, of what there was too much or too little, what kind of an effect this has, what kind of obstacle or help that thing gave. He should investigate the kind and properties of every subject beforehand, so as not to bring together opposing things (or: adverse things).



I don't have theories, I practice a sound doctrine based on the classical works on alchemy, my work I share with no one, cause no one has earned what I have earned, as I has said before alchemy is between you and God.

Now we can give tips on how to perform the extractions or trade web links where we can buy these extractions already prepared which is every bit as effective. Or we can grow our own saffron with our ormus waters prepared to Barry Carters guidelines, with our magnets and magic wands/ stir sticks and perform our own extractions with our chi and claim ours have greater effacy, lol

solomon levi
04-23-2013, 02:41 AM
Some of what you said there is true some not, the consciousness of humans is weak, nothing in the universe is superior to the consciousness of God, God put into all things an anima mundi, a mind, which works to engender salt, sulfur and mercury, which is physical form, spirit and soul, each of these plants under discussion already carries that on it that was engrafted upon it by the anima mundi, its is this each in its own way that cures by way of sympathies, your febble consciousness cannot alter the anima mundi, and change how these plant tinctures react upon the human constitution, can you transmute a thistle into a rose? No you only plant the appriopriate seed, read Basil's 12 Keys, the creation of the seed is reserved for God.

since you are asking and answering questions yourself, i must assume you're not here for communication with others. be careful. your kind doesn't last long here.
man is not just weak consciousness... that is his unripened state... cont...

Seth-Ra
04-23-2013, 02:44 AM
Quack, quack, quack, mumbo gumbo, pseudoscience, pathological science, if I marcerate herbs into spiritus vini, I'll get the same crap as anybody else, you Trebena or whatever her name was or anybody else. Don't give me that sprageric initiation bull crap, any extra effects you percieve from you doing the extraction yourself is pure placebo, had you two infused the slightest bit of alchemy into your rhetoric I might be inclined to be led down a certain road, however without the proper observance of the season, the temperature, the phase of the moon, the time of day, the imposition of the rule of the elements, the rotation of the alchemical wheel, there is nothing here other than what spiritus vini will extract from the herb, which you can buy on amazon as easily as making it yourself. Did you read the reviews on amazon, it must be every bit as potent as Paracelsus'. Herbology is not spragerics nor is it alchemy my ill informed comrades, it is more akin to homeopathy, but here for the initiates of the green science mother nature has taught her students how to read plants and through various types of association have seen the microscosm mirrored in the greater world and realized that certain plants heal the human constitution through certain hidden and occult "sympathies", while some are much more apparent, here I mean visually. Let me give you an example, the milk thistle exudes a milky fluid, that was traditionally prescribed for women who need help in lactating, and guess what..it works, milk thistle extract is still made to this day and you can pick some up from any health supplement store. Some plants are lunar some as solar, some are cold and soothing some are bitter and astringent, what is important is to look at their qualities on all levels, outward appearance included, some appear as feminine some as masculine, each with its own astral spirit mirrored in its physical form, when you can see all of this you have been, "initiated." And you can make your own prescriptions based on these sympathies just as Paracelsus had done. There was nothing special about the man except that he was a supreme booster, and liked to draw attention to himself.
Its all interesting even at this level, and one can but marvel at the engineering prowness of the almighty, eternal omnipotent God, but alchemy it still does not make.

You are making a lot of assumptions about how we make our extract, or what we do with it in its creation. We dont tend to give step-by-step instructions on how to do something as simple as a spagyric tincture - there are books devoted to it and i think anyone reading this will be competent enough to follow what needs to be done.
Its like in martial arts - what appears to be a simple movement, has an enormous amount of calculating, practice, energy, and precision behind its delivery and execution. :cool:

Also, initiation isnt solely seeing - its realizing. Its not all mental, there is a lot that goes on and into it.


"Atomic physicist Jenő Pál Wigner, as well as Bohm (to list two among many), have clearly established that the observer has direct influence upon matter, I'm not sure what you mean by "pathological science"?"

Ha, you must be joking right, read what you wrote, atomic physicist, yes when manipulating matter at the quantum level, Striping down molecules, into atoms and even further to the quatum level, lol, do you take your concoctions down to the quantum level? Strip it down to bosons and fermions do you? , tell me by what method do you defeat the strong nuclear force so that you can see these anomolus effects in matter, do you elongate it to the superdeformed s-ormes state, lol, like David Hudson, yes this is pseudo/pathological science, you see this sort of thing touted by Barry Carter and the "ormus entusiaists" all pedding their wares on the internet to poor unsuspecting peoples.

The observer effect takes place on the quantum level - to interact with Spirit, to have a relationship with it, is to effect its physical expression through the matter at all levels. This will also cause arrangement of its parts (chemicals, molecules, atoms, etc) to arrange themselves differently, and/or interact with others differently, based on the relationship.


there is nothing in this universe superior to consciousness, which humans have an infinite fountain of if they find/realise it. an alchemist is not separate from the universe, all times, all planets, all signatures... s/he encompasses them.
everything is true. everything is placebo. 'scientifically proven' is a grosser form of placebo. all reality is placebo.

Indeed. :)


Some of what you said there is true some not, the consciousness of humans is weak, nothing in the universe is superior to the consciousness of God, God put into all things an anima mundi, a mind, which works to engender salt, sulfur and mercury, which is physical form, spirit and soul, each of these plants under discussion already carries that on it that was engrafted upon it by the anima mundi, its is this each in its own way that cures by way of sympathies, your febble consciousness cannot alter the anima mundi, and change how these plant tinctures react upon the human constitution, can you transmute a thistle into a rose? No you only plant the appriopriate seed, read Basil's 12 Keys, the creation of the seed is reserved for God.

The consciousness of humans is a lot stronger than you give it credit. God is the whole of that.

We mine certain frequencies from their seeds/genealogies - but the root is the same, and that is what we return it to in the Magnum Opus; the Root Spirit of All. So thus is the Stone God in a bottle, and realized within us, as us.


Cause I'm a real alchemist, but real alchemy doesn't pertain to plants, a bit of a study of philosophy will get you out of that quagmire. Alchemy doesn't need pseudoscientific babble to prove its existence, all I have to do is look in the mirror or out in nature, alchemy is the spiritual side of matter, the "life", even hard science can't explain life nor create it, it is hidden, occult, that is why we must study it to pierce the veil for ourselves but its not for everyone, one must develop a life long obession for it and pray for guidance and illumination, you must believe in God or you are already lost.

Alchemy is about Life, and thus all that lives.


Why don't you try projecting your chi into water and try changing it into wine, now we are onto chi, huh, ok, go read some about Grand Master Zhou who is a qi gong master who can heat matter to near boiling point(+200F), you will realize that chi is only useful when transformed into another force, particularly heat, nobody can "project chi", we can only circulate it, and transform it into visible and psychic heat to help free up blockages in others so that they can realize a corrected circulation as well, here again we are not Gods only men, if you could project chi you could reanimate the dead, etc,etc.

Reanimating the dead is not remotely unheard of. Heat is not all there is to chi.


Well if you are a Christian and believe the miracles of Christ, then it's completely possible to turn water into wine if you've built up enough of the appropriate energies.

And actually, projecting chi is very simple:
Take your dominant hand and make a pointing-finger. Focus the mind on projecting a stream of chi out of this finger and onto your other arm while at the same time moving your pointing-finger up and down the opposite arm. Of course they should not be touching. If you do it right (that is, are able to circulate your chi correctly and are able to focus) then you should feel the stream of chi on your other arm.

and if you search the web for chi manipulation exercises, you'll find a ton of things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imIGw5OxVFY
(chi manipulation with candle)

Well stated. :)


Me believing in the miracles of Christ no matter how strongly I believe in them does not give me the power of a God, Christ was God incarnate or as much of him that could be squeezed into a perishable and feeble shell such as the human form. For all my wants, desires,faith, knowledge and imaginations I am still human and very much limited.

I know plenty about the manipulation of chi, my friend I am a medical qi gong practictioner.

Christ/God said "Greater works than these will you do." Some of us take that literally and do accordingly.

A medical qi-gong practitioner? The wording you choose to use would not suggest one of a strong spiritual discipline - unless it was a dogmatic one.


12 posts....ha, ......Forum respect..ha,ha don't make me laugh both LeoRetilus and Alielius had over 1000 posts to this forum each, and contributed to the threads which mattered the most here, and see where this "forum respect" got them. Do I need over 1000 posts to speak the truth, no my friend one, one post suffices, it can even come from the mouth of a babe, truth is everywhere you just have to know how to recognize it. If my truth sounds like rudeness to you, well rude is all in the tone, its only the tone of the voice in your head, after all these are just words here I'm writing with no implied tone, other than that what I know as truth carries.

Aleilius and LR both had reasons for being removed. Their contributions were never in question - but their actions were. LR got into very personal flamewars. When he came back as RogerC, he was allowed a second chance - we dont hold grudges, he then left of his own accord, choosing slandering language towards members of this forum, as his final farewell.
As for Aleilius, he used his mod-powers to attack the forum.


Plant extracts are plant extracts, alchemy is alchemy, I was discussing the plant extract but somebody wanted to say how alchemical it was, cause they were performing the extraction and not another person or pharmaceutical company, and that there's was better or more 'philosophical" which is completely bogus and superstitous, lets see how did brother Homerus put it in the Golden Chain of Homer.



I don't have theories, I practice a sound doctrine based on the classical works on alchemy, my work I share with no one, cause no one has earned what I have earned, as I has said before alchemy is between you and God.

Now we can give tips on how to perform the extractions or trade web links where we can buy these extractions already prepared which is every bit as effective. Or we can grow our own saffron with our ormus waters prepared to Barry Carters guidelines, with our magnets and magic wands/ stir sticks and perform our own extractions with our chi and claim ours have greater effacy, lol

It is better for the artist to do the work, to resonate with the process, the steps, the matter etc. It causes initiation. This is why the Stone, or any powerful alchemical artifact, will effect and do more for the artist than for a patient. As i said, its God in a bottle. It does what one is open to receiving, just as a metal must be opened to be changed. So yes, it is more philosophical to do it yourself, atleast the first time, and any more times that its more beneficial to you. Unless a patient becomes a student - then there is no difference for them, unless you have something more than a spagyric extract. But again - this thread is about exactly that: spagyric extracts of the plant. Hence its placement.


You live up to your screen-name.





~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
04-23-2013, 02:51 AM
if you read carefully, i spoke of man's potential if he finds it.
the consciousness of god is the same One thing as every consciousness. It is available to those who make themselves available. just because most don't doesn't mean they potentially can't.
please don't limit everyone to your view/comprehension. you don't know how capable any individual is of being a vessel for the One at any moment.

LostGnosticOccultum
04-23-2013, 06:23 AM
Me believing in the miracles of Christ no matter how strongly I believe in them does not give me the power of a God, Christ was God incarnate or as much of him that could be squeezed into a perishable and feeble shell such as the human form. For all my wants, desires,faith, knowledge and imaginations I am still human and very much limited.

It’s funny that you'd say that. "[Then Jesus the Christ said] I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me even greater works than I, because I am going to be with the Father." - John 14:12

And how about this?
Jesus is FULLY GOD yet FULLY Man at the same time.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us…” - John 1:1, 14 (the Word is Jesus the Christ)

LostGnosticOccultum
04-23-2013, 06:39 AM
Plant extracts are plant extracts, alchemy is alchemy, I was discussing the plant extract but somebody wanted to say how alchemical it was, cause they were performing the extraction and not another person or pharmaceutical company, and that there's was better or more 'philosophical" which is completely bogus and superstitous, lets see how did brother Homerus put it in the Golden Chain of Homer.
Excuse me, I was stating what has been said for centuries by the OLD ALCHEMISTS

Krisztian
04-23-2013, 02:10 PM
Is that book anything like the pdf, John Reid's Course on Practical Alchemy?

DVD.


. . . . on second thought, probably not. because I don't remember him talking about visulizations or mantras.

Listen to the part about how JHR3 realized (after two years of stagnation) that he wouldn't be able to complete Opus Minor unless he visualized the symbols during the process, at different phases.

solomon levi
04-25-2013, 07:56 AM
Atomic physicist Jenő Pál Wigner, as well as Bohm (to list two among many), have clearly established that the observer has direct influence upon matter, I'm not sure what you mean by "pathological science"?

Ha, you must be joking right, read what you wrote, atomic physicist, yes when manipulating matter at the quantum level, Striping down molecules, into atoms and even further to the quatum level, lol, do you take your concoctions down to the quantum level? Strip it down to bosons and fermions do you? , tell me by what method do you defeat the strong nuclear force so that you can see these anomolus effects in matter, do you elongate it to the superdeformed s-ormes state,

i definitely do all these things with my intention. i can't prove any of it though.

Krisztian
04-25-2013, 03:52 PM
i definitely do all these things with my intention. i can't prove any of it though.

Hungarian physicist Wigner had a major influence on me as a child researching such matters.

I also know that with a decent meditation practice (or perhaps with another mental system), one does influence elementary particles just needs the appropriate symbols for it.

Seth-Ra
04-25-2013, 05:34 PM
In the beginning, i would do one of two things: either plan a work to be long enough to encapsulate all planetary energies (year-long works) - or - specifically start it and work it on those that astrologically correlated with it (week/hour correspondences).

As my intuition spoke more, and my initiation grew, i ceased needing the books/charts, just "knew" when to do something - and then realized that the 7 were within me, and i was them, and so was all the matters worked with - i merely had to micro-set-up the macro, via projecting and realizing the principles/archetypes, experiencing them, as we (self and matter) walked through them.


The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s glory illuminates it, and its lamp is the Lamb. - Revelation 21:23 HCSB

The Lamb, of course, is the Life - that which is sacrificed and exalted - that of the work, and the Artist. :cool:





~Seth-Ra

solomon levi
04-26-2013, 11:04 PM
Hungarian physicist Wigner had a major influence on me as a child researching such matters.

I also know that with a decent meditation practice (or perhaps with another mental system), one does influence elementary particles just needs the appropriate symbols for it.

This is the kind of thing I've been seeing for a couple years and seeing even more detailed over the last four months.
I witness how this quantum foam/flux or blizzard of virtual particles interacts with itself to produce reality, mind, atoms, things...
I talk about how everything is resonance/agreement/relationship... when we visualize this field, we are agreeing...
I can't not do this now... it's like taking the stone or m-gold... you're thoughts manifest very rapidly, deliberately, so you have
to be really conscious of what you align with, or be really spread out in nonduality and detachment so that you're not creating a
significant personal dream but just accepting what life brings.
IDK, I'm sure people would want me to test it, see if I can manifest, direct it... but I don't think for myself that way. Spirit has a way
of letting me know when to enhance it and it's always for others and i get great pleasure from that... If I love others, spirit takes care of my needs...
I don't have to use this for myself. I think I understand what I used to read about so often.

So what makes it alchemical/philosophical? Cheumia - fusion, yoga, love... not love/attracting things, but love of Wisdom.
Not love of power, but love of being a servant to the One power... watching this miracle manifest in ways better than you could think.
How does that apply to lab work? If you "get it", it applies to everything... the alchemist isn't DOING alchemy as if s/he is the subject...
s/he's the necessary sulphur/conscious element/instrument for unconditioned mercury to work through. But to be a bridge, one can't
be too conscious, self-conscious/ego/separate, but really being more receptive and just tinging it with enough conscious agreement/love to
give it material life. I don't know if I can say it better...

Kiorionis
04-27-2013, 05:08 PM
DVD.

Listen to the part about how JHR3 realized (after two years of stagnation) that he wouldn't be able to complete Opus Minor unless he visualized the symbols during the process, at different phases.

Interesting. Will definitely look into it.