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JDP
06-02-2013, 07:11 PM
While reviewing old German alchemical/chymical books, I have sometimes encountered a unit of weight called "eß". I have looked in many places but I can't seem to find any gram equivalent of this unit of weight. It has to be smaller than the "loth" (about 16 grams) and the "quent" (about 4 grams), because the context it appears in always indicates it's a smaller weight unit than those two. Does anyone around here know what the gram equivalent of this "eß" would be?

True Initiate
06-02-2013, 08:07 PM
Can you show us full sentence in German in which this eß comes in?

Ghislain
06-02-2013, 09:39 PM
JDP

Could it correspond to our Exponential Function?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_function

Just clutching at straws :confused:

or, as ß is German representation of double "s" then it could be ESS and that points to another link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explained_sum_of_squares

Ghislain

JDP
06-02-2013, 11:31 PM
Can you show us full sentence in German in which this eß comes in?

It appears in contexts where quantities or quantification are being talked about. Something along the lines of this: "Dieser probe enthält 3 loth, 2 quent, 7 eß." It is a unit of weight, definitely, but I have not been able to find its equivalent in our modern metrical system.

Salazius
06-03-2013, 01:09 PM
If my memory is good, ß means half with a quantity measurement.

JDP
06-03-2013, 07:01 PM
If my memory is good, ß means half with a quantity measurement.

Supposing this is right, "half" of what in this case?

Salazius
06-04-2013, 11:59 AM
Yes ß means half, I confirm.

E reversed horizontaly is scrupulus. Maybe a simplification of "half a scrupulus".

JDP
06-04-2013, 12:15 PM
Yes ß means half, I confirm.

E reversed horizontaly is scrupulus. Maybe a simplification of "half a scrupulus".

If this interpretation is correct, then it would be about 0.65 grams (a whole scruple is about 1.3 grams.)

But can someone confirm this from a book or article out there that clearly states what the gram equivalent of this "eß" is?

Weidenfeld
06-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Salazius is almost right,

viz Uncia Semis = 1/2 Unze (ounce) or 1 Lot(h). Normally it's almost impossible to provide a more exact weight (mass) for these unities. In the Middle Ages and later almost every bigger location (capital city) used its own definition of the diverse weight unities.

JDP
06-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Salazius is almost right,

viz Uncia Semis = 1/2 Unze (ounce) or 1 Lot(h). Normally it's almost impossible to provide a more exact weight (mass) for these unities. In the Middle Ages and later almost every bigger location (capital city) used its own definition of the diverse weight unities.

The attachment shows the value for the loth (half an ounce.) The "loth" is discussed in many sources on old weight units. Its approximate gram-equivalent is about 14 to 16 grams (depending on geographical variants of this unit.) But have you been able to find any source on old weights that mentions this "eß"? I still haven't. Judging by the context this unit appears in, it has to be smaller than the "loth" and the "quent" (about 4 grams), so Salazius' estimate seems on the right track, but it would be nice to have a confirmation from an actual source on old weights.

Ghislain
06-04-2013, 08:20 PM
In Latin "eß" can mean "disappear", "it was" or "that you"

Latin is used much in old text...would any of the above fit within
the context of the sentence?

Ghislain

JDP
06-04-2013, 08:25 PM
In Latin "eß" can mean "disappear", "it was" or "that you"

Latin is used much in old text...would any of the above fit within
the context of the sentence?

Ghislain

Unfortunately, no. This "eß" is a specific weight unit. It always appears alongside other weight units, like the "loth" and the "quent".

Ghislain
06-04-2013, 08:34 PM
If you put your exaple sentence into Google Translate you get:

"This test contains 3 loth consistently 2, 7 ESS."

So this could read:

"This test contains 3 loth consistently 2, 7 disappear."

Are you sure that "quent" is a weight?

Ghislain

JDP
06-04-2013, 08:52 PM
If you put your exaple sentence into Google Translate you get:

"This test contains 3 loth consistently 2, 7 ESS."

So this could read:

"This test contains 3 loth consistently 2, 7 disappear."

Are you sure that "quent" is a weight?

Ghislain

Yes, absolutely, the "quent" undoubtedly stands for a unit of weight, almost 4 of our modern grams:

http://books.google.com/books?id=hcTmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA171&dq=quent+weight+grams&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1OuUaLfO_Gn4AOOmoGIAw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=quent%20weight%20grams&f=false

See page 171.

Weidenfeld
06-05-2013, 09:53 AM
Actually the definiton of this weight unit is far more complex. I think, I need not to translate the attached passage entirely.
More frequently it is spelled “Aß” and sometimes “Eß” or “Eßchen”. It is a small part of a “Mark” or a “Pfund”, differently according to the size of the “Pfund”. You certainly will recognize in the attached passage how different a proper conversion might be.

(see http://books.google.de/books?id=_kRRAAAAYAAJ page 10)

JDP
06-05-2013, 11:31 AM
Actually the definiton of this weight unit is far more complex. I think, I need not to translate the attached passage entirely.
More frequently it is spelled “Aß” and sometimes “Eß” or “Eßchen”. It is a small part of a “Mark” or a “Pfund”, differently according to the size of the “Pfund”. You certainly will recognize in the attached passage how different a proper conversion might be.

(see http://books.google.de/books?id=_kRRAAAAYAAJ page 10)

If the "Aß" is really the same as the "Eß", as the source you provided indicates, then it's about 0.048 to 0.055 grams (depending on local variations.) Thanks. This seems to answer the question.

Weidenfeld
06-05-2013, 12:09 PM
If the "Aß" is really the same as the "Eß", as the source you provided indicates, then it's about 0.048 to 0.055 grams (depending on local variations.) Thanks. This seems to answer the question.
Aß = Eß
http://books.google.de/books?id=_kRRAAAAYAAJ&hl=de&hl=de&pg=PA219&img=1&zoom=3&sig=ACfU3U1cgPNc6pwJKdpPEgVs4rvNeILi7g&ci=39%2C1303%2C895%2C182&edge=0