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Goldlion973
07-04-2013, 03:32 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ULo3LNH5pqYRyM&tbnid=bdd2QnLp8dqZpM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boliden.com%2FPress%2FPress-images%2FSmelters%2F&ei=CpbVUfO2AcjmOuO4gIAO&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZWU&psig=AFQjCNE7AGRZgyKr4Cxct1t7F0Qc9Hqdbg&ust=1373038426973519

People in Alchemy when talking about Calcining (and such) tend to come up with all manner of operation and talk on how to go about it, most common is that someone will ask a question along the lines of, 'how the [ins bad word of choice] do I burn this carbon mass to a water soluble salt?' . This question will be followed by a long stream of well wishing suggestions as is in Alchemy and other spiritual get togethers, many adherants following various paths will suggest ways of working and opinion closest to their hearts.

"Use low temperatures over long periods of time"

"Use a spot wielder on full blast over a furnace for a week!"

"... buy a foundry."

"Calcination is a spiritual process, use no gross operations.... love the salt into being."

"Only the divine will survive through the temperaments of hell!!" **ins maniacal laughter**

.... and thus forth, mostly with photos of people calcining various products from metals to fresh herbs, to dried herbs to a product that has been in maceration etc.

As one frequently frustrated at the process and after having sat with an electric kiln at 700 degrees (after its separation/s) for a week on my last project only for it to have lost some weight but still insist on remaining in a carbon state I've decided to up the game slightly and use a Meker burner on full for how ever long it takes but am weary that doing so might destroy the product or, 'fuse the salts' even though this isn't supposed to be possible.

Question/s:

Will/can high temperatures damage a product? Am of the opinion that what is driven out is bad and what remains is the herb in its most exulted state.

To high temp calcine or to not high temp calcine? :p

Peace
GL973

JDP
07-04-2013, 08:32 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ULo3LNH5pqYRyM&tbnid=bdd2QnLp8dqZpM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boliden.com%2FPress%2FPress-images%2FSmelters%2F&ei=CpbVUfO2AcjmOuO4gIAO&bvm=bv.48705608,d.ZWU&psig=AFQjCNE7AGRZgyKr4Cxct1t7F0Qc9Hqdbg&ust=1373038426973519

People in Alchemy when talking about Calcining (and such) tend to come up with all manner of operation and talk on how to go about it, most common is that someone will ask a question along the lines of, 'how the [ins bad word of choice] do I burn this carbon mass to a water soluble salt?' . This question will be followed by a long stream of well wishing suggestions as is in Alchemy and other spiritual get togethers, many adherants following various paths will suggest ways of working and opinion closest to their hearts.

"Use low temperatures over long periods of time"

"Use a spot wielder on full blast over a furnace for a week!"

"... buy a foundry."

"Calcination is a spiritual process, use no gross operations.... love the salt into being."

"Only the divine will survive through the temperaments of hell!!" **ins maniacal laughter**

.... and thus forth, mostly with photos of people calcining various products from metals to fresh herbs, to dried herbs to a product that has been in maceration etc.

As one frequently frustrated at the process and after having sat with an electric kiln at 700 degrees (after its separation/s) for a week on my last project only for it to have lost some weight but still insist on remaining in a carbon state I've decided to up the game slightly and use a Meker burner on full for how ever long it takes but am weary that doing so might destroy the product or, 'fuse the salts' even though this isn't supposed to be possible.

Question/s:

Will/can high temperatures damage a product? Am of the opinion that what is driven out is bad and what remains is the herb in its most exulted state.

To high temp calcine or to not high temp calcine? :p

Peace
GL973

It depends on what you want to calcine, and to what sources you want to pay attention to. There is a whole "school" of alchemy/chymistry that claims that prolonged strong ("reverberating") calcinations are the key to "destroying" metals into their alleged component parts. Examples of authors who defended these claims: Isaac Hollander, Kunckel, Franz Clinge, Carl Friederich Wenzel.

Ghislain
07-06-2013, 01:49 AM
GL

With herbal calcination this is usually done after you have extracted the oils and alkaloids.
you then calcine the dross...for want of a better word...and recombine the ash with the previous
extraction to create the tincture. within this ash there will be salts, but also some carbon.

I'm not sure if you can completely burn off the carbon. Maybe someone can enlighten us both.

I have no idea about calcining metals.

Ghislain

Kiorionis
07-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Burn off the carbon? isn't there more useful things to do with it?
(maybe not for a tincture)

It's the first blackening of the substance in my mind.
for example with minerals, if you change black graphite into it's white counterpart, you come out with a diamond.
(or so I've heard)
does the same hold true for herbals?

Ghislain
07-06-2013, 06:22 PM
Kiorionis

To create a diamond from black graphite would take a lot of heat and immense pressure applied at the same time.

The conversion only works at temperatures well above 1700K and at pressures in excess of 12 GigaPascals.

Ghislain

Kiorionis
07-07-2013, 05:21 PM
I understand that's how they are created naturally in the earth and scientifically in a lab, but what about artfully?
the phrase "the vulgar burn with fire, we [philosophers] with water" comes to mind...
:)

Goldenlion,


As one frequently frustrated at the process and after having sat with an electric kiln at 700 degrees (after its separation/s) for a week on my last project only for it to have lost some weight but still insist on remaining in a carbon state I've decided to up the game slightly and use a Meker burner on full for how ever long it takes but am weary that doing so might destroy the product or, 'fuse the salts' even though this isn't supposed to be possible.

Carbon itself is an element, so with my understanding of your process if you continually calcine your carbon, you'll eventually be left with nothing.

What interests me about your first post is that you say the product may be destroyed or the salts fused together.
From what I've been reading vitrification isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the Triumphal Chariot of Antimony, Valentine's first necessary step (for his Fire Stone) is to turn the ore of antimony into a blackish substance, then glass.

Jerry
07-08-2013, 02:49 PM
the phrase "the vulgar burn with fire, we [philosophers] with water" comes to mind...


There are a few versions of this statement. A couple of examples are: "Chemists burn with fire, while alchemists burn with water.", and . . .

“Common Calcination is made by the action of the fire of our cooking-stoves, or of the concentrated
rays of the Sun; Water is the agent of Philosophical Calcination; for this reason the Philosophers say:
Chemists burn with fire, and we burn with water, whence one must conclude that common chemistry
is as different from Hermetic Chemistry , as fire from water.
Solution, chemically speaking, is an attenuation, or liquifaction of matter under the form of water,
of oil, of spirit, or humour. But Philosophical Solution is a reduction of the body to its First Matter, or
a natural separation of the parts of the Composite, and a coagulation of the spiritual parts. This is why
Philosophers call it a Solution of the body and a Congelation of the spirit. Its effect is to liquify, to
dissolve, to open, to render crude, to thin and to free substances of their terrestrial parts, to
dematerialize the Mixt, to convert it into sperm.” – A Treatise on The Great Art, Dom Antoine Joseph Pernety.

These statements are riddles like many others in alchemy and are not to be understood literally. They require problem solving skills to solve the puzzles, not bragging writes of how many treatises one has in Arabic and other foraynge languages. There is no Book of Answers. There are no books which give “step by step instructions”, just books of more puzzles and riddles.

However, a hint to the solution of the problem is “Azoth et ignis tibi sufficient”.

An excellent rule to follow is: “The Praxis of this great Work exceedeth the highest Arcanum of Nature; and except it be shewed by Divine Revelation or the Work it self, by an artist, it is, never obtained from Books.” – One Hundred and Fifty Three Chymical Aphorisms, 1688.

Goldlion973
07-15-2013, 03:49 PM
Yes. Some consider a bollard toward progress as being a sign that internal work is needed before being able to move on. While I appreciate the concept I've found that its inconsistent considering I've calcined a product successfully before only to find that it refuses to do so for another operation.

"the Fire and the First Matter are sufficient"

Translates toward the idea that fire is used to separate all its parts, from its sulphur to its mercury and salt. Considering this simplicity nothing else is needed in the same way as they say that the Pelican is all that is needed for the Art as everything can be done (some would say should be done) within the one piece of glassware as a depiction of the universe.

“Azoth et Pelican et ignis tibi sufficient” ???

Am not sure of the act of calcination in ones work with metals. Can't recall now which book/text I read it from but the idea of over calcining is an idea that has been thrown around, the idea that the salts can become damaged in the process and their useful aspects lost. Have seen some amazing looking salts, minerals derived from herbs after calcination/leeching over time and am looking toward that for inspiration.

'To high temp calcine or to not high temp calcine' as a title was meant to draw out debate on the use of high temperatures for calcination as opposed to other methods refute if you will... may the flames of debate ensue and the victor stand, tempered with the truth in hand!

Jerry
07-15-2013, 09:10 PM
"the Fire and the First Matter are sufficient"

Translates toward the idea that fire is used to separate all its parts, from its sulphur to its mercury and salt. Considering this simplicity nothing else is needed in the same way as they say that the Pelican is all that is needed for the Art as everything can be done (some would say should be done) within the one piece of glassware as a depiction of the universe.

True.