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being
07-13-2013, 04:36 PM
Hi guys, I havent posted in a while but i assure you i read your conversations.

I have a question, a confusion i like help with: the difference of what happens when we Dissolve and Coagulate vs. Repeatedly Distil (and cohobate)?

I have read when we
1-Dissolve and coagulate, the salt gets more powerful when the water/spirit is evaporated

2-Distill, pour the spirit back on the earth and distill again (repeated distillations), the salt gets volatilized and carried over with the spirit.


Why does the salt get stronger int he first (but doesnt evaporate off when the water is evaporated) and it moves over in the second?

Thank you

Kiorionis
07-15-2013, 03:15 PM
I'll throw out my knowledge of the processes :)

Coagulation can be seen anytime you cut yourself, and is the forming of a liquid into a hardened mass.
Cohobation is the cyclical distillation of a volatile substance over a less volatile one. This happens as much as the rain falls and rises up again. Could also be considered a circulation.

Now to the question:


Why does the salt get stronger in the first (but doesn't evaporate off when the water is evaporated) and it moves over in the second?

My understanding of things is that the Universal Fire rains down from the heavens, and it's first form is a type of water which must become fixed. It's this Fire which makes the salts more powerful. To coagulate a substance is the same as "fixing a spirit", just less metaphoric and more scientific in its phrasing. The tricky part is knowing how to fix something without the addition of anything else.

For me, cohobation lies beneath Spagyrics, which is the art of separating matter, and isn't an alchemical process. The corresponding alchemical processes would be something like a philosophical digestion (which includes circulation, which is basically a much slower cohobation cycle). The example I like to think of for cohobation is that the process is like a chain. The more you pull on the chain the more links of chain you pull up.

Notice I removed the dissolution from your approach. This is because I disagree with putting the two together. In the context of coagulation, to 'dissolve' something actually means the opposite -- that is, to turn a solid earth into a liquid. ;)

and what do you know, the cohobation cycle helps to volatilize matter on its way towards dissolution

hope this helps. Also, I'm interested in and open to any critique by anyone of what I just wrote :P

being
07-15-2013, 05:56 PM
Thanks.

just to clarity, I meant deliquesce when i said dissolve.

being
07-16-2013, 03:02 PM
Notice I removed the dissolution from your approach. This is because I disagree with putting the two together. In the context of coagulation, to 'dissolve' something actually means the opposite -- that is, to turn a solid earth into a liquid. ;)

and what do you know, the cohobation cycle helps to volatilize matter on its way towards dissolution

hope this helps. Also, I'm interested in and open to any critique by anyone of what I just wrote :P

I dont understand why you removed dissolving. I have read "the entirety of our art is Dissolve et Coagula". Could you explain why dissolution isnt in the context of coagulation?

Kiorionis
07-16-2013, 03:37 PM
Sure. It's most likely that I define the words differently.
Dissolution is the union of a volatile and subtle with the fixed and gross,
whereas coagulation is the resolving of one volatile body into a fixed one.

So I would describe a substance's dissolution in one case but not in another.

I agree though, the basics consists of solve et coagula. or the separation, purification and recombination of one matter in one vessel with one fire.

:)

Ghislain
07-16-2013, 05:38 PM
I find it helps to look at a dictionary desciption of the word and see what fits.

Below from Dictionary.com are the possible meanings of the word "dissolution". In my understanding, I
believe that 1, 2 and 3 cover what is meant from an alchemical viewpoint.


dis·so·lu·tion [dis-uh-loo-shuhn]


1. the act or process of resolving or dissolving into parts or elements.

2. the resulting state.

3. the undoing or breaking of a bond, tie, union, partnership, etc.

4. the breaking up of an assembly or organization; dismissal; dispersal.

5. Government . an order issued by the head of a state terminating a parliament and necessitating a new election.

Now "Coagulate" is a bit trickier as they use big words that I don't know, such as "flocculate". I would
choose 3 here.


co·ag·u·late [v. koh-ag-yuh-leyt]

1. to change from a fluid into a thickened mass; curdle; congeal: Let the pudding stand two hours until it coagulates.

2. Biology . (of blood) to form a clot.

3. Physical Chemistry . (of colloidal particles) to flocculate or cause to flocculate by adding an electrolyte to an electrostatic colloid.

So, once again into the depth of the dictionary for "flocculate"... perhaps 2 here.



floc·cu·late [flok-yuh-leyt]

1. to form into flocculent masses.

2. to form flocculent masses, as a cloud or a chemical precipitate; form aggregated or compound masses of particles.

A good example of both these operations are shown in the video I recently posted from YouTube in an Ormus thread.

ORMUS Derivation (Wet Method) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=68jtnuMAa00&NR=1)

The sea salt is dissolved into some constituant parts, then some of those parts separated and the required
element coagulated.

I have no idea if the result of the process carried out in this video is of any use, but it certainly is a good
example of Solve et Coagula.

Ghislain

Edit: I realise this does not answer the question of the need to repeatedly distill :(