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Vibration
07-30-2013, 11:33 AM
My seeking for answers always seems to lead me to one dead-end which I can never get past... which I'll try to explain here in the hope that someone can nudge me in the right direction...

As I understand it: All things came from the One; the physical world is a manifestation of the One, rippled down through multiple (increasingly low-level) densities. Spiritual matter (which comes from the One) coagulates as physical matter in the physical world.

So life as we know it (our human life that is) touches multiple planes (densities): there's the physical plane/density on which we experience the physical world; then there are higher planes/densities where one might say our souls resonate. Though of course all things on all planes are ultimately of the single One.

But what puzzles me greatly is: how do the multiple planes become 'attached' to each other? i.e. specifically, how does the soul connect with the flesh?

If everything on the physical plane has its subtle equivalents on the higher planes, then we seem to come to a strange issue: our physical bodies have come from our parents; the cells which compose our bodies have come from our parents' bodies; these cells (physical matter) weren't 'connected' to our eternal souls at the point of our physical conception... but at some point during the gestation period our soul seems to 'connect' with the physical matter which is to become (temporarily) our physical body. At least, it would seem that this must be the case if we agree there is a mind/body/spirit connection.

Somehow this seems counter-intuitive to me. Since all things come from the One, I tend to see life as permeating down from higher densities, progressively manifesting into lower densities; yet by logic, if our souls are eternal and exist perpetually on a higher plane to our physical bodies, but our physical bodies are not born of our souls (i.e. they are born of our parents' bodies), then how/when do the two come together? At what point do the cells that constitute our physical bodies connect with OUR 'souls' rather than our parents' 'souls'?

Any thoughts/answers most welcome!

Dr.Zoidberg
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Hello Vibration. Not sure that I can offer any answers as I cannot speak with any certainty in this area, though perhaps something I offer may have a significant meaning for you or my ignorance may attract some knowledge from a more experienced member.

Many people argue on the subject abortion and where life beings. I wonder if this question and the questions you pose are related. Does life begin at conception, birth, or somewhere in between? Are you alive if you have a physical body but no soul attached? What does this say about astral projection? What exactly encompasses "you"? The moment of birth is very interesting I believe. This is the point where you begin life as conscious individual.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-does-consciousness-arise

Whether this is where life begins or the soul attaches I don't know. Perhaps they are not related. It is an interesting question you pose.

Kiorionis
07-30-2013, 01:39 PM
Hi Vibration!
Interesting question indeed...


But what puzzles me greatly is: how do the multiple planes become 'attached' to each other? i.e. specifically, how does the soul connect with the flesh?

The soul interacts with the flesh through the Holy Spirit, or Prana. Or even 'Intelligent Primordial Energy'. I was brought up a Christian so I like to use this metaphor: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is the Soul of the Universe, the Son represents the Flesh of Christ or Body, and the Holy Spirit is that through which the Father created his Son (in the case of Christ, this is considered to be the Virgin Mother).

Alchemically, we have the interaction between the three Principles which I'm sure you know. It was explained to me that Mercury dissolves Sulphur while at the same time Sulphur resolves Mercury.

Now as to how each plane is attached to each other... I would follow my above reasoning and suggest it has something to do with how each plane uses one common Holy Spirit to sustain their manifestation. In our case, the Soul is bound to our Flesh body with the Holy Spirit. On the next level up, the condensation of Holy Spirit connects the Astral Soul to whatever 'Body' exists on that plane.

Of course this is speculative and theoretical, but based on experience...
welcome to the forums! ;)

Krisztian
07-30-2013, 02:32 PM
. . . . how does the soul connect with the flesh?

One would argue that the reason why the human heart sits to the side is to accommodate its twin brother next to it, the soul. While they're family, with one common heritage, they have different domains to serve, one that of the physical, the other, the 'non-physical'. So when something twinkles your heart, the soul also remembers.

Ghislain
07-30-2013, 04:05 PM
I see it that when egg and sperm unite they create a vessel, which souls are queuing to enter.

At what point that happens and where the soul resides is still a mystery to me, but it fits.

The body is a vehicle for the soul.

Having said all that, I believe everything is one and this duality is imaginary.

We are one with the universe.

Ghislain

N.B. all thoughts above are transient and likely to change at any given moment :)

Vibration
07-30-2013, 04:32 PM
Thanks all for your responses!


I see it that when egg and sperm unite they create a vessel, which souls are queuing to enter
I like this :) I guess my question is: Who's the philosopher? The unborn child (soul) or the parent?

Ghislain
07-30-2013, 04:52 PM
The parent is just the caretaker and the child is a new fresh mind; a blank slate so to speak.

The first has developed a philosophy and the second has a philosophy in the making.

What do you think?

Ghislain

Vibration
07-30-2013, 05:32 PM
I think you speak sense, Ghislain.

But still the question remains unanswered in my mind: are the child's actions ultimately a manifestation of the parent's will, or of the child's? Is the child a creation of the parent's vibration, or of its own vibration? Or a marriage of the two? After all, it is the parent, is it not, who decides to birth the child... Is the child not therefore a further development of the parent's philosophy?

Apologies to answer questions with questions; I just don't have the answers... :)

Kiorionis
07-30-2013, 07:32 PM
I think you speak sense, Ghislain.
i've noticed he likes to do that :p


But still the question remains unanswered in my mind: are the child's actions ultimately a manifestation of the parent's will, or of the child's? Is the child a creation of the parent's vibration, or of its own vibration? Or a marriage of the two? After all, it is the parent, is it not, who decides to birth the child... Is the child not therefore a further development of the parent's philosophy?

It may be the parent who births the child, but if the soul is eternal, not much can be had by way of generating a new soul. This I suppose depends on your religious perspective. And speaking of the religious perspective, I remember being brought up in my parent's house, and learning their philosophy. I also specifically remember the time of my life when I revolted against that philosophy so as to find my own way in life. I keep most of this philosophy to myself, and my parent's still have theirs -- which for the most part has not developed beyond Lutheranism.

In the end it depends on the quintessence of the soul in question. I have a hard time understanding 'quintessence' :)

Krisztian
07-30-2013, 08:35 PM
Is the child a creation of the parent's vibration, or of its own vibration? Or a marriage of the two? After all, it is the parent, is it not, who decides to birth the child... Is the child not therefore a further development of the parent's philosophy?

Great discussion so far.

I'm not sure whether in the spiritual sense, one has a parent. Spirit gives birth but certainly uses the 'gateway' of the uniting forces of masculine and feminine energy to enter. Sexual intercourse is an act of opening gates, stepping down of dimensions, that allows for spirit to enter. Then, "borrows" the material program of both parents in the accumulation of a physical vehicle.

All entities are spirits. I mean it respectfully, isn't an elephant the same elephant even from different points of view?

solomon levi
08-01-2013, 08:14 PM
You're forgetting all is one. There separation between parent and child exists on one level of density/size/frequency,
but on another level, say the DNA level, we are connected back to the first human.

It's a paradox. body and soul and spirit are connected and not connected at the same time space but different dimension.
Dimension gives the appearance of disconnection and connection... a bubble contains a bubble which is itself an individual
bubble yet contained in and part of a larger bubble... a dream within a dream, an echo of an echo, a hologram of a hologram.
It's all one, but we can intend to see separateness as real, and so it is. Maybe separateness existed before unity, and maybe a
unity before that separateness... why must there be a beginning? Only things with beginnings believe there must be a beginning.

Dr.Zoidberg
08-01-2013, 08:21 PM
You're forgetting all is one. There separation between parent and child exists on one level of density/size/frequency,
but on another level, say the DNA level, we are connected back to the first human.

It's a paradox. body and soul and spirit are connected and not connected at the same time space but different dimension.
Dimension gives the appearance of disconnection and connection... a bubble contains a bubble which is itself an individual
bubble yet contained in and part of a larger bubble... a dream within a dream, an echo of an echo, a hologram of a hologram.
It's all one, but we can intend to see separateness as real, and so it is. Maybe separateness existed before unity, and maybe a
unity before that separateness... why must there be a beginning? Only things with beginnings believe there must be a beginning.

Love it! Nicely put. Thanks!

Vibration
08-01-2013, 08:58 PM
Love it! Nicely put. Thanks!
Yes, thanks solomon levi! I think you've answered my original question - or at least given me much food for thought!

solomon levi
08-01-2013, 10:21 PM
Ouroboros... When you contemplate the unknown, the bigger picture, our potential, etc, the microcosm is penetrating the macrocosm. The macrocosm is also giving birth to the microcosm, which is then penetrating/impregnating the macrocosm, which then gives birth to a wiser version of microcosm, which is still the body of that same not so wise microcosm, which is also the body of the macrocosm...
Is the serpent swallowing its tail, or is the serpent impregnating itself? These are two directions/manifestations of the wheel of time.
or two streams which flow from the hollow oak

III
08-02-2013, 03:28 AM
I see it that when egg and sperm unite they create a vessel, which souls are queuing to enter.

At what point that happens and where the soul resides is still a mystery to me, but it fits.

The body is a vehicle for the soul.

Having said all that, I believe everything is one and this duality is imaginary.

We are one with the universe.

Ghislain

N.B. all thoughts above are transient and likely to change at any given moment :)

Hi Ghislain,

I've been through this 4 times for 3 children (1 miscarriage). The day of intercourse, mu wife and I were each time off and doing separate things all day and were both totally horny and could think of nothing but sex and both decided independently that now was the time to stop birth control measures (3 times). All 4 episodes we "knew" within hours that conception was going to happen, well before it could actually have happened. So awareness of the soul of the child can happen ahead of actual conception, perhaps after some sort of probability has been achieved.