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solomon levi
10-18-2013, 07:47 AM
this world is so flimsy.
nothing lasts.
nothing matters in a world where nothing lasts.
our agreements are flimsy - agreeing to agree.
but not a single true rule to be found.
everything is pretend.

even in my fluidity i find this a bit depressing.
really? is that it?
no wonder we hide in matter

Andro
10-18-2013, 08:13 AM
For some associative reason, a line from a Counting Crows song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAe3sCIakXo) comes to mind:


"She says she's tired of life
She must be tired of something"

If I may ask, and if it's not too personal... WHAT exactly is it that you would like to last? A personal, non-general answer (or no answer at all) would IMO likely be more helpful than a generalized one...

Even the most advanced entity in the Babylon 5 series, Lorien, an immortal 'Adam Rishon' Archetype, who had basically been around 'forever', knew that nothing lasts.

I don't think we 'hide in matter'. We hide everywhere to escape the annihilation of waking up.

And there may be no rules as such, but restrictions DO apply in order to perpetuate the 'agenda' of the Dream to dream (itself) on, in a way that it itself can believe it's 'real'.

It isn't. Nothing is.

I have much to elaborate on this, but I seriously doubt anyone would understand what I have to say, and I absolutely don't mean it in a condescending way. My views are subjective like everything else. But I'll probably give it a shot anyway (in the near future), as illusory time permits :)

Have you ever wondered or asked yourselves why accomplished/'transcended' Philosophers are called Adepts?

I'll give my own version of an answer later, if this thread evolves.

I'd also recommend to complement my posts with my signature line.
I don't always include it, but when I do, it's for a reason...

Kiorionis
10-18-2013, 06:07 PM
I think we're in matter so our consciousness/soul has the opportunity to evolve. How can our energies transmute if not nurtured in the earth?

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 04:57 PM
If I may ask, and if it's not too personal... WHAT exactly is it that you would like to last? A personal, non-general answer (or no answer at all) would IMO likely be more helpful than a generalized one...

Even the most advanced entity in the Babylon 5 series, Lorien, an immortal 'Adam Rishon' Archetype, who had basically been around 'forever', knew that nothing lasts.

I don't think we 'hide in matter'. We hide everywhere to escape the annihilation of waking up.

And there may be no rules as such, but restrictions DO apply in order to perpetuate the 'agenda' of the Dream to dream (itself) on, in a way that it itself can believe it's 'real'.

It isn't. Nothing is.

I have much to elaborate on this, but I seriously doubt anyone would understand what I have to say, and I absolutely don't mean it in a condescending way. My views are subjective like everything else. But I'll probably give it a shot anyway (in the near future), as illusory time permits :)

Have you ever wondered or asked yourselves why accomplished/'transcended' Philosophers are called Adepts?

I'll give my own version of an answer later, if this thread evolves.

I'd also recommend to complement my posts with my signature line.
I don't always include it, but when I do, it's for a reason...

What would i like to last? Hope.
lol! i'm just kidding. you're an ass sometimes, but it's obviously ok if you want to use me to get your message across. :)

i'm just making an observation. what i would like would impair my ability to observe. what i observe is that matter/"satan"
wants to last, that consciousness is looking for a way to be eternal in/as matter, the dense, the slow/long frequencies, and
that in some cases relative eternity is enough for some to appear as gods/aeons/archons, emanations, beliefs, myths,
archetypes, laws, commandments, rules, means, proportions, etc... perhaps (i say perhaps for others benefit. it is not a perhaps for me)
consciousness has found a way to do this, or simulate this, in silicon. computers appear to have better memories than brains, and memory
makes reality. DNA does this in humans but humans are looking for ways to be conscious of what their DNA knows, even training silicon to
investigate carbon. :)

"I don't think we 'hide in matter'. We hide everywhere to escape the annihilation of waking up."

Fine. You're an individual capable of arguing anything or finding fault with anything. I get it.
Why don't you ever listen to others? Why is it always you vs. everyone else?
Whatever. Devil's advocate is an easy way out. One can be asleep/automatic/programmed and do it. Big deal.
All this reveals is your animosity, unwillingness to allow, insistence to stand out.

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 05:07 PM
I think we're in matter so our consciousness/soul has the opportunity to evolve. How can our energies transmute if not nurtured in the earth?

Yeah, but we didn't have a choice, it wasn't something prepared.
I say we hide in matter because consciousness is thrust into it without time to evolve... we are evolving it in time now and still don't
use all of our brains and dna and "light". It wasn't like we thought, "this will be a good opportunity" in advance.
Matter is our only defense against infinity. When i say we hide there, it's because we hide there.
I dare any one of you to step into infinity right now if you're not "hiding".

What i am saying is consistent with alchemy which admits to a hidden matter/subject.

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 05:24 PM
It's not what i want to last. Consciousness wants to lasts. Just look and see it trying everywhere.
I am consciousness too.
I see alchemy as the art of preservation in many senses. Gold doesn't tarnish or rust or decay.
The stone doesn't fly away when fixed or fume away in fire.

It's not, to me, that something should last. I sometimes observe people failing to make things last when they want to.
I consider a remedy for those who desire one. If you don't desire one, you have your remedy already. :)
I am for everyone, even if i can't write for everyone in a single post.
This is just one moment, a snapshot... it is not who i am.
I can defend it or not, whatever you want to play.

Yes, you can also see consciousness trying to die everywhere. But is it successful?

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 06:05 PM
interesting synchronicity, just found this after reading something in the poetry section :) someone else saw what i am pointing at.

Why Beauty is desired

I said, "O thou stranger woman, thou sayest well; but, assuming Love to be such as you say, what is the use of him to men?" "That, Socrates," she replied, "I will attempt to unfold: of his nature and birth I have already spoken; and you acknowledge that love is of the beautiful. But some one will say: Of the beautiful in what, Socrates and Diotima?—or rather let me put the question more dearly, and ask: When a man loves the beautiful, what does he desire?" I answered her "That the beautiful may be his." "Still," she said, "the answer suggests a further question: What is given by the possession of beauty?" "To what you have asked," I replied, "I have no answer ready." "Then," she said, "Let me put the word 'good' in the place of the beautiful, and repeat the question once more: If he who loves good, what is it then that he loves?" "The possession of the good," I said. "And what does he gain who possesses the good?" "Happiness," I replied; "there is less difficulty in answering that question." "Yes," she said, "the happy are made happy by the acquisition of good things. Nor is there any need to ask why a man desires happiness; the answer is already final." "You are right." I said. "And is this wish and this desire common to all? and do all men always desire their own good, or only some men?—what say you?" "All men," I replied; "the desire is common to all." "Why, then," she rejoined, "are not all men, Socrates, said to love, but only some them? whereas you say that all men are always loving the same things." "I myself wonder," I said, "why this is." "There is nothing to wonder at," she replied; "the reason is that one part of love is separated off and receives the name of the whole, but the other parts have other names." "Give an illustration," I said. She answered me as follows: "There is poetry, which, as you know, is complex; and manifold. All creation or passage of non-being into being is poetry or making, and the processes of all art are creative; and the masters of arts are all poets or makers." "Very true." "Still," she said, "you know that they are not called poets, but have other names; only that portion of the art which is separated off from the rest, and is concerned with music and metre, is termed poetry, and they who possess poetry in this sense of the word are called poets." "Very true," I said. "And the same holds of love. For you may say generally that all desire of good and happiness is only the great and subtle power of love; but they who are drawn towards him by any other path, whether the path of money-making or gymnastics or philosophy, are not called lovers—the name of the whole is appropriated to those whose affection takes one form only—they alone are said to love, or to be lovers." "I dare say," I replied, "that you are right." "Yes," she added, "and you hear people say that lovers are seeking for their other half; but I say that they are seeking neither for the half of themselves, nor for the whole, unless the half or the whole be also a good. And they will cut off their own hands and feet and cast them away, if they are evil; for they love not what is their own, unless perchance there be some one who calls what belongs to him the good, and what belongs to another the evil. For there is nothing which men love but the good. Is there anything?" "Certainly, I should say, that there is nothing." "Then," she said, "the simple truth is, that men love the good." "Yes," I said. "To which must be added that they love the possession of the good?" "Yes, that must be added." "And not only the possession, but the everlasting possession of the good?" "That must be added too." "Then love," she said, "may be described generally as the love of the everlasting possession of the good?" "That is most true."

The Symposium. Plato.

Ghislain
10-24-2013, 06:14 PM
Sol, I can really relate to your opening post...I get waves of this feeling sometimes; it’s like everything
is pointless...like mowing the lawn just to see it grow and need mowing once again <- a flimsy
example :). However once the lawn is mown you can appreciate the clean cut for a while.

If something was beautiful forever would there become a desensitisation of beauty?

You say we don’t have a choice, but I think we do...I think we made a conscious decision to incarnate
into the bodies we posses to feel; imagine a world without feeling. Smell the roses, feel the wind in
your face, touch the soft grass, see the beauty, hear the music and then imagine it all gone forever.

I think things last for the time that is right for them to last; what an odd world it would be if
everything were permanent.

We will keep going through this impermanent world on the wheel of life until we appreciate it for
what it is and then who knows where we go...perhaps to the mundane world of the everlasting.

On a personal note, when I was younger I had an intense desire to be famous. I said to my friends
if I can't be famous I will be infamous. The reason behind this was that I didn't want to be just another
life that had come and gone. We still talk of Socrates, Plato, Newton and Einstein etc...

I didn't know what life was about and thought that to live on in the memory of others might be it.

Not so sure now :( lol

Ghislain

Edit: I had not read the previous post before writing this one...so the mention of Socrates and Plato are purely coincidental

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 06:48 PM
Well, how is it possible to consciously choose an unknown? Unknown = unconscious.
How did we know feeling would exist in the future choice of incarnating?
Times and coordinates are everything... depends on who you ascribe choice to... who is "we"?
What degree of consciousness is awakened in "we"?
All i can say is I'm not thinking - i'm seeing directly. This isn't a belief or knowledge or preference...
it's what i see when "I" am not there.

:) cool coincidence

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 06:50 PM
"Quantum physics tells us that nothing that is observed is unaffected by the observer. That statement, from science, holds an enormous and powerful insight. It means that everyone sees a different truth, because everyone is creating what they see." ~ Neale Donald Walsch

Yes, but there are relative facets of "observer". :)
Creation is experiencing itself - one as two and many, infinite...

there are gamma observers and hertzian observers...

Ghislain
10-24-2013, 07:33 PM
Sol

In answer to your question i would like to refer you to a post on an Ayahuasca journey I had.

Remembering past lives (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3748-Remembering-Other-Lives-Selves-Incarnations/page2)

Ghislain ...off to work :(

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 07:45 PM
Well, how is it possible to consciously choose an unknown? Unknown = unconscious.
How did we know feeling would exist in the future choice of incarnating?
Times and coordinates are everything... depends on who you ascribe choice to... who is "we"?
What degree of consciousness is awakened in "we"?
All i can say is I'm not thinking - i'm seeing directly. This isn't a belief or knowledge or preference...
it's what i see when "I" am not there.

:) cool coincidence

when i talk about what i perceive beyond thought it becomes the subject of thought, but i am pointing at
something beyond thought, existing as a force, an energy... perceiving that force without thought is what i call
"seeing", being a seer. I see consciousness seeking to be eternal/permanent... look at the ego, look at video or
digital info, look at man dreaming of this all the time, look at DNA and sex...
I have no reason to believe it hasn't found a way. :)

Kiorionis
10-24-2013, 08:23 PM
Well, how is it possible to consciously choose an unknown? Unknown = unconscious.

Maybe at the moment you choose you don't completely understand all aspects pertaining to your choice. There will always be things we don't know while here on earth. When I chose to begin my path as an alchemist, and not just practice spagyrics or study medicine, I didn't know my whole conception of the Universe would change, or even which parts of it. In this case I'm glad it did.

Kiorionis
10-24-2013, 08:26 PM
I see consciousness seeking to be eternal/permanent...

I have no reason to believe it hasn't found a way. :)

I would point you to the Taoist Immortals. If legend is true then they have found the Way ;)

solomon levi
10-24-2013, 08:44 PM
Maybe at the moment you choose you don't completely understand all aspects pertaining to your choice. There will always be things we don't know while here on earth. When I chose to begin my path as an alchemist, and not just practice spagyrics or study medicine, I didn't know my whole conception of the Universe would change, or even which parts of it. In this case I'm glad it did.

:) ok. i can't argue that. i like it, paradox - we choose and we don't choose. i definitely see that if that's what you're saying. it's all relative. each individual has made the unconscious conscious to a different degree and as a mixture of different frequencies.
In Castaneda don Juan says that one cannot volunteer for the path. my observations agree - it is never what we volunteered for, as you say. That we cannot volunteer is another way of saying we don't choose. In one of the books it goes into it at length how the apprentice must be tricked by the spirit onto the path. This is certainly what happened to me, and i see it happen to others. How else can it happen? It wouldn't be unknown then; and if it isn't unknown, there is no possibility of choice in a known closed system. The unknown/abstract/spirit gives us a chance for choice. :)

Kiorionis
10-24-2013, 09:18 PM
Yup, well spoken Solomon :)

And just for the record I'm very excited where my most recent choices will take me, wherever that may be.

III
10-26-2013, 10:19 PM
http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by solomon levi http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?p=31851#post31851)
I see consciousness seeking to be eternal/permanent...

I have no reason to believe it hasn't found a way. :)




I would point you to the Taoist Immortals. If legend is true then they have found the Way ;)


I would suggest that "Immortal" and "Eternal' are not the same.

Ghislain
10-26-2013, 11:13 PM
Everything is eternal, maybe not in shape or substance but eternal non the less.

When we think of an eternal life we imagine it is going to be just as we are now,
but we seem to forget that we change day by day and eternity is a long time :)

Perhaps I will continue as a stone, a blade of grass or just a warm breeze, but I will
continue that is a "matter" of fact as basically everything is energy and energy can
only be converted it can't be lost.


In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated
system cannot change—it is said to be conserved over time. Energy can be neither created
nor destroyed, but can change form, for instance chemical energy can be converted to
kinetic energy in the explosion of a stick of dynamite. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy)

Is the conscious mind eternal? Where is it now and where will it be when our body
dies?

Ghislain

Kiorionis
10-27-2013, 02:01 AM
I would suggest that "Immortal" and "Eternal' are not the same.

I agree. They are most commonly referred to as Immortals though, so I kept the word :)

Kiorionis
10-27-2013, 03:00 AM
Is the conscious mind eternal? Where is it now and where will it be when our body
dies?

Ghislain

Right now it's fixed in matter. Death will separated and allow the mental and astral bodies to volatilize completely. At least that's my current opinion :p

As for the conscious mind being eternal, maybe as a unity with the All-in-All. I don't see it lasting individually unless the individual truly wishes to remain singular. But that's all up in the air at the moment.

III
10-28-2013, 06:34 AM
Everything is eternal, maybe not in shape or substance but eternal non the less.

When we think of an eternal life we imagine it is going to be just as we are now,
but we seem to forget that we change day by day and eternity is a long time :)

Perhaps I will continue as a stone, a blade of grass or just a warm breeze, but I will
continue that is a "matter" of fact as basically everything is energy and energy can
only be converted it can't be lost.



Is the conscious mind eternal? Where is it now and where will it be when our body
dies?

Ghislain

Hi Ghislain,


Is the conscious mind eternal?

Potentially, maybe or depending upon how each of the elements is defined.


Where is it now

Here. Where is here?

and where will it be when our body dies?

The appearance of some place else that will still present the problem of "where is here?" followed by right back to some point in this same life. "Here" is where I come each time I die from "here" with an always too brief interlude which can include periods of other lives and other experiences, like the consciousness of grass, but is always too short, a blink of the eye, occasionally a long blink, for any real relief. What does "Eternal" mean when you use the word?

These are genuine ways of saying these things. I have considered these situations for a very long Groundhog Day. These are about as good as any of the versions and use an economy of words. And I'll add this as skeptic, I've never found any decisive answers. To say that I experience IT to be divine in nature, isn't a decisive anything. To say it is all an illusion no matter where "here" is not really much of a satisfying answer either. Also while it all may be an illusion it is also about as real as anything. And there is one apparent paradox on top of another apparent paradox, and that appears to be about as good as it gets.