PDA

View Full Version : Working with Iron Pyrite



neuthral
11-02-2013, 10:06 PM
Hello, i'm looking for information on working with iron pyrite,
i started experimenting with iron pyrite, i think it's a very interesting material to start to work on, pyrite is a sulfide mineral of iron (FeS2) and is para-magnetic, it isn't attracted to a strong magnet like iron is normally,


The name pyrite is derived from the Greek πυρίτης (puritēs), "of fire" or "in fire",[7] in turn from πύρ (pur), "fire"

This is a pic from an experiment i tried (following a translated recipe i got on another forum) boiling pyrite in distilled water, some of the material floats on top of the water like a skin of mercury which i find kinda interesting,

http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag96/neuthral/a681d132-5877-4b42-b35c-7b1eab3d7c6a_zpsd36662ab.jpg

Ghislain
11-02-2013, 11:16 PM
neuthral

Did you collect this skin and if so what sort of properties did it have?

Was it golden?

Ghislain

neuthral
11-03-2013, 12:31 AM
neuthral

Did you collect this skin and if so what sort of properties did it have?

Was it golden?

Ghislain

I did not collect this, it seemed to sink back after being stirred a little

amoodikh
11-04-2013, 03:28 AM
Hi Neuthral,

I like the skin of mercury you have got. I believe you should not lose it. I believe it should go through colors phases something like black, rainbow,red rainbow. What was your boiling temp.? And for how many days you kept it boiling? Maybe it requires more days cooking to rotten.

amoodikh

neuthral
11-04-2013, 01:35 PM
Hi Neuthral,

I like the skin of mercury you have got. I believe you should not lose it. I believe it should go through colors phases something like black, rainbow,red rainbow. What was your boiling temp.? And for how many days you kept it boiling? Maybe it requires more days cooking to rotten.

amoodikh

Hello, i cooked it for 4 days at about (90-100C, this was suggested), lowering the temp always at night with no apparent changes, not even rusting of the iron in the pyrite, the "mercury" skin of the solution is what i think small gaseous particles that is being lifted by the heating action and surface tension of the water, patience is not my best attribute so i'm starting another project with much finer pyrite and a mild alkahest that's already working in another solution with magnetite :)

TUNGSTEN
11-04-2013, 03:26 PM
interesting work

crestind
11-07-2013, 04:35 AM
Was this from fourblue? The "skin" is just finer particles of iron pyrite floating to the surface. The text explicitly states that this will happen, and you need to make sure it mixes properly. It also says it must be boiling at all times, so if you were heating at 90c-<100c, that's a deviation from the recipe. At night it says to lower the heat so it is still boiling for safety reasons to lower the risk of something bad happening, but during the day you raise it so it boils more vigorously since you can watch over it.

neuthral
11-07-2013, 08:30 AM
Was this from fourblue? The "skin" is just finer particles of iron pyrite floating to the surface. The text explicitly states that this will happen, and you need to make sure it mixes properly. It also says it must be boiling at all times, so if you were heating at 90c-<100c, that's a deviation from the recipe. At night it says to lower the heat so it is still boiling for safety reasons to lower the risk of something bad happening, but during the day you raise it so it boils more vigorously since you can watch over it.

Hello crestind O/ as i recall the text was a translation and didnšt really describe it very clear as to understand the whole process in detail, but it did say not to boil it "violently" whatever that meant, i had it forming small pops when in boiling and took it as sign of violent heating, but in any case there wasn't any visible change to the matter, i have to try this again when i get some new pyrite

crestind
11-10-2013, 04:59 PM
By vigorously I just mean it should be closer to a rolling boil than a simmer. With a simmer you only get tiny bubbles because the large bubbles mostly condense before breaking the surface.

I also find a few things odd about this recipe. 1. A hermetic seal is important, and you can't lose the air. 2. The guy obsesses over pure water and says it can't have minerals and has to be distilled (The amount of minerals in tap water is going to be negligible), but then tells you to grind pyrite up in an agate mortar. The probability that no agate will contaminate your pyrite is close to zero. Pyrite is never going to be pure anyways so I'm not sure what he's on about.

I checked my flask and I see some specks of black stuff with rusty stains running down them on the upper sides of my flask. I say black specks because it could be just iron contamination. I can't be sure it's pyrite.


Also.........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_disulfide

Iron pyrite is unstable in the natural environment: in nature it is always being created or being destroyed. Iron pyrite exposed to air and water decomposes into iron oxides and sulfate. This process is hastened by the action of Acidithiobacillus bacteria which oxidize the pyrite to produce ferrous iron and sulfate. These reactions occur more rapidly when the pyrite is in fine crystals and dust, which is the form it takes in most mining operations.
Acid drainage[edit]
Sulfate released from decomposing pyrite combines with water, producing sulfuric acid, leading to acid rock drainage and potentially acid rain.
Dust explosions[edit]
Pyrite oxidation is sufficiently exothermic that underground coal mines in high-sulfur coal seams have occasionally had serious problems with spontaneous combustion in the mined-out areas of the mine. The solution is to hermetically seal the mined-out areas to exclude oxygen.[31]
In modern coal mines, limestone dust is sprayed onto the exposed coal surfaces to reduce the hazard of dust explosions. This has the secondary benefit of neutralizing the acid released by pyrite oxidation and therefore slowing the oxidation cycle described above, thus reducing the likelihood of spontaneous combustion. In the long term, however, oxidation continues, and the hydrated sulfates formed may exert crystallization pressure that can expand cracks in the rock and lead eventually to roof fall.[32]

Yeah, I'd say that sounds mighty familiar lol

So according to chemistry, we're decomposing FeS2 into iron oxides and sulfate. Some bacteria might be tagging along to help. Then you are boiling the stuff in sulfuric basically. After that phenomenon explainable (for now) are occurring. Now assuming the aforementioned bacteria is a key part of this process, I imagine the chemicals it produces are "energetically charged" or whatever.

alfr
11-10-2013, 06:55 PM
hi neuthral interesting experiment thanks so do you remember in that forum was reported this process would be interesting to study it you can have it all once again finding the forum copy it and attach it in full integal thanks

my best regards alfr

crestind
11-10-2013, 07:03 PM
hi neuthral interesting experiment thanks so do you remember in that forum was reported this process would be interesting to study it you can have it all once again finding the forum copy it and attach it in full integal thanks

my best regards alfr
I'll save you the time and condense like 5 pages into one sentence. I assure you the remainder is just tl;dr.

Boil crushed pyrite powder in water in a sealed flask.

alfr
11-10-2013, 08:36 PM
hi crestind very hanks so is one recipe for elixir and stone or ?
if is recipe of elixir and stone or by where arrive it recipe in the traditional way what is the autor traditional of it or ?
no problem 5 pag so if is possible i like read and study well all it is or give link of the pag of the forum if is possible thanks

my best regards alfr

crestind
11-11-2013, 01:38 AM
Send me your email and I'll email it to you.

crestind
11-11-2013, 03:00 AM
Now according to the folks editing Wikipedia, decomposing pyrite yields sulfate and ferrous iron. When these are combined with water you get sulfuric acid and ferrous iron and probably iron oxide too.

Now according to some dead alchemist guy,

In the first part of the Great Work (Opus Magnum) consisting of three parts, any metal carefully dissolved in acid in an artful manner will yield a red juice (menstruum, Blood of the Red Lion.) In such manner a substance will be returned to a certain degree to its, primordial condition (chaos), becoming a useful medium capable of extracting the essential vitality found in all creation and then being able to retain it, i.e., such agens that is superior to inherent atomic power as we understand it presently.
Yes, I think that also sounds familiar. Acids and metals. I'm not sure what careful means. Should I use oven mitts?

alfr
11-11-2013, 10:45 PM
Send me your email and I'll email it to you.

Hi crestind thaks so i have send you a PM with email tanks

My best regards alfr

crestind
12-02-2013, 04:51 AM
The crystal structure of the pyrite may possibly have an effect?

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1738-Marcasite
I'm just hurling shit at the barn wall here.

http://www.gemselect.com/other-info/marcasite-pyrite.php

Known as polymorphs, these intriguing cases illustrate how the different crystal structures can result in quite different physical properties.
http://www.newark.osu.edu/facultystaff/personal/jstjohn/Documents/Common-minerals/Marcasite.htm

How does one visually distinguish marcasite from pyrite? Apart from color, marcasite crystals are typically plates, or sharp & pointed, and marcasite tends to twin, resulting in cockscomb masses. Marcasite also readily breaks down into whitish powder (FeSO4).

crestind
03-25-2015, 04:28 AM
Wanted to bump this thread in light of the recent discussions regarding EM fields and the connection to SM.

Iron pyrite is paramagnetic. I suppose if it were ground up extremely finely it would become a solution of minimagnets.

Just today I was reviewing some old posts and I found this process which was somewhat conceptually similar. Instead of boiling powdered pyrites in water, it's boiling lye. Remarkably the member "Merc" claims that after a few days, a white powder will simply manifest in solution. Merc also implies that this powder is not from dissolving of the glass container or any other component involved in the experiment as he clearly states one should weigh everything to be sure.

http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t352-hello-everybody


To be super clear, a good friend of mine worked with one of David’s chemist directly and has produced many different white and grey white powders with unusual properties that we did experiments with. And if you want an easy way to make undetermined matter out of basically nothing, boil a lye solution for a few days---“a proton magnet”…just make sure you use pure lye, pure ACS HCL, distilled deionized water, weigh the glass, water, lye, acid (used to neutralize) and use a sealed reflux device to convince yourself that it can’t be contamination, it can’t be a salt or compound formed from the glass and lye …I have gotten a pound of this white stuff from a run. This process is closer to alchemy because matter seems to appear out of nothing but this is not a path to the stone. It's false.

Here is a conceptually related patent by Peter Grandics.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20090317281?dq=US20090317281
His claims in the patent seem to be similar to my tentative understanding of the significance of alkalis/quartz. Quartz is pyroelectric and thus piezoelectric. When heated, you get an electric field (voltage). Chemical reactions are electron exchanges, so it would involve electrical potential energy, which I think is also just... voltage? Alkalis are known to be highly reactive, and thus they'd have high voltage.

Stretching even further, it's all vaguely similar to the "marmor spongia". If I recall correctly, that process extracts dew from the air after passing it through heated white marble and red marble... goes without saying what the composition of those would be.

Andro
03-25-2015, 06:45 AM
It's all vaguely similar to the "marmor spongia". If I recall correctly, that process extracts dew from the air after passing it through heated white marble and red marble... goes without saying what the composition of those would be.

Hey,

Would you care to elaborate (more) on the 'Marmor Spongia' thing? Made me curious, as I never saw it mentioned/discussed outside this forum.

Maybe on a new dedicated thread/ Or on THIS ONE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?42-Philosophical-Magnets-for-Capturing-the-Secret-Fire)?

Rhoend
04-15-2015, 02:52 PM
Hi Neuthral,

Pyrite and iron sulfide is extremely interesting for the artist. Pyrite we vitriol, a process similar to yours. Get is a salt or greenish crust may dry to form crystals of vitriol.
At the vitriol you can extract it its sulfuric acid and ferric oxide. The process is distilling.

But you can use the vitriol with alum and nitro as taught Ramon Llull and get a can dissolve the moon (silver) acid.

On the other hand, there is a method that a friend made with pyrite and ocean water, and revealed the essence of the sun. It is similar to what you did, but note the result.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bIK4eazsnRk/VRVufq4cqFI/AAAAAAAAdi4/fmPR-YJztDw/s1600/Pirita%2Ba%2Bpunto%2Bde%2Bdescomponerse%2B-sjarre-.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oMXB5taG3PQ/VRVufozg52I/AAAAAAAAdi0/xFaxn3kYtPs/s1600/Segunda%2Bdescomposici%C3%B3n%2Bde%2Bla%2Bpirita%2 B-sjarre-.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dpERxeHoorQ/VRVuXOZnNfI/AAAAAAAAdis/4lYK6Bpncbo/s1600/Pirita%2Bretrograda%2Ba%2Bsal%2Bamarilla%2B-sjarre-.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3q3xVnL40T4/VRVuSZYiiXI/AAAAAAAAdik/uTUD-4ypRew/s1600/Residuo%2Bformado%2Bcolor%2Bamarillo%2Bnaranja%2B-sjarre-.jpg

Source images (http://www.sjarre.com.ar/2015/03/la-filosofia-de-la-naturaleza-y-un.html)

crestind
10-11-2015, 03:18 AM
I wanted to make note of a curious phenomenon.

Chemically, I made what should be the same substance, Ferrous Acetate. It is described as a clear salt (occasionally a greenish hydrate maybe?)

One was made from extraction from natural pyrite. The other was from store bought steel wool. However, they had very different properties.

Pyrite Sample
- More resistant to oxidation. When hydrogen peroxide is squirted onto the crystals, it takes a while to react and some portions do not seem to react at all.
- Seemingly more resistant to dissolving, but this is hard to measure. Just seemed that way
- When thermally decomposed it leaves behind a gray white material like ashes. Very bizarre! Only when heated at even higher temperatures does it decompose to the regular red iron oxide color that is more commonly seen.

Refined Iron Sample
- Readily oxidized to ferric acetate and then to iron oxide during gentle distillation of the solution. Oxidizes readily as the literature describes
- Dissolves readily
- Decomposes to iron oxide readily even when heating down in solution

There are two possibilities as I see it. 1: This is a philosophic material. 2: This is an impurity. I'm not sure this is the second because the salt crystallizes which would probably indicate purity rather than contamination.

References...
Fulcanelli explains a process where he boils pyrite in AR and then sulfuric to get a white sublimate and red oil. Hmm...

amoodikh
10-16-2015, 02:00 PM
Wanted to bump this thread in light of the recent discussions regarding EM fields and the connection to SM.

Iron pyrite is paramagnetic. I suppose if it were ground up extremely finely it would become a solution of minimagnets.

Just today I was reviewing some old posts and I found this process which was somewhat conceptually similar. Instead of boiling powdered pyrites in water, it's boiling lye. Remarkably the member "Merc" claims that after a few days, a white powder will simply manifest in solution. Merc also implies that this powder is not from dissolving of the glass container or any other component involved in the experiment as he clearly states one should weigh everything to be sure.

http://www.illuminated-alchemists.com/t352-hello-everybody



Here is a conceptually related patent by Peter Grandics.
https://www.google.com/patents/US20090317281?dq=US20090317281
His claims in the patent seem to be similar to my tentative understanding of the significance of alkalis/quartz. Quartz is pyroelectric and thus piezoelectric. When heated, you get an electric field (voltage). Chemical reactions are electron exchanges, so it would involve electrical potential energy, which I think is also just... voltage? Alkalis are known to be highly reactive, and thus they'd have high voltage.

Stretching even further, it's all vaguely similar to the "marmor spongia". If I recall correctly, that process extracts dew from the air after passing it through heated white marble and red marble... goes without saying what the composition of those would be.

Here is an image of a dirty milk-like liquid produced from pyrite using lye.
http://i.imgur.com/yVVUAwut.jpg

crestind
10-17-2015, 12:21 AM
Is that pyrite dissolved in lye? If I had a CO2 tank, I'd bubble it into the water to make the carbonate of K, and then digest that with ethanol a bit before distilling it off or siphoning it off as it should form a separate layer.

amoodikh
10-17-2015, 02:58 AM
Is that pyrite dissolved in lye? If I had a CO2 tank, I'd bubble it into the water to make the carbonate of K, and then digest that with ethanol a bit before distilling it off or siphoning it off as it should form a separate layer.

Hi Crestind,

I started with pyrite and lye but to get into the white liquid there is more than just dissolving pyrite in lye. one must consider to create a reaction between 2 opposites.

JDP
10-17-2015, 12:10 PM
Is that pyrite dissolved in lye? If I had a CO2 tank, I'd bubble it into the water to make the carbonate of K, and then digest that with ethanol a bit before distilling it off or siphoning it off as it should form a separate layer.

Maybe it is a suspension or solution of sulfur from the pyrites in the lye. In old times it was common to purify sulfur by boiling it in alkaline solutions, then add an acid (usually vinegar) and the so-called milk of sulfur would form.

crestind
11-14-2015, 05:15 AM
Maybe we should boil in vinegar instead lol.

Rueb
11-16-2015, 03:42 AM
http://www.bedrockdreams.com/2011/02/characteristics-of-gold-bearing-quartz.html