PDA

View Full Version : Distilling ORMUS From Urine



theFool
11-18-2013, 06:37 PM
The title could be "distilling a spirit out of urine which has lower boiling point than water". I put it under the ORMUS thread because all I tried to do is to replicate this experiment: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/urine.htm
We have a lot of threads about urine, but I think we haven't covered the case where an extremely volatile spirit with a lower boiling point from water is extracted.

In brief, the link I gave before, calls us to distill urine under vacuum with low heat and to capture an oily spirit using an ice cooled condenser. If you follow the link, you will see a picture of a complicated distillation setup. I have "deciphered" it and now trying to check if it worths buying all this equipment, by performing a smaller scale experiment as an indicator. I just put a round bottom flask and a liebig condenser on top which has the other end connected to vacuum (water aspirator). Ice cold water was circulated. I expected to see a small portion of the oily urine spirit forming in the condenser.

The results are not conclusive, but positive towards the existence of this spirit.

Here is what happened:
The urine was heated slowly and the vacuum applied. At a certain point (unfortunatelly I had no temperature measurement) very tiny bubbles appeared throught the volume of urine. At the same time, bubbles on the surface were formed:

http://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/13/27/64/97/ur110.jpg

When the vacuum was stopped, the tiny bubbles stopped too. When the vacuum strength was raised, urine was boiling, by creating large bubbles of steam. There was a slight range of vacuum where only the tiny bubbles were produced and not the large bubbles indicating boiling of the water.

The evolution of tiny bubbles and the bubbling because of boiling seems to be two different phenomena. I did the same experiment again with tap water only to observe that there is no continuous evolution of tiny bubbles before the boiling bubbles. In fact, there are some tiny bubbles produced even by tap water but they disappear within seconds (mainstream sciences attributes this to dissolved air). In urine, those bubbles were evolving for at least ten minutes (then I stopped the distillation).

At the end of the distillation, I checked the condenser. At the lower part, there where some water drops formed, obviously because of water boiling. At the rest of its length there was a thin white film covering it, probably atmospheric humidity condensed because of ice water circulating in there. When I peeked through the condenser, a mist was circulating in it. It was beautifull to watch but probaby the explanation is mundane (more on this later). I couldn't feel any oiliness.

The experiment can be labeled as a failure, except the peculiar apearence of the tiny bubbles and the "mist", effects that can be attributed to more conventional reasons than "ormus".

Of course more attempts will follow, next time I should put a mantle (or BM) around the flask in order to have a uniform heating and be able to distinguish clearly between the two gases that appear (steam and ...?).

thoth
11-18-2013, 08:31 PM
Hi, if I was to guess I would say the bubbles are one of the salts of urine reaching its sublimation temp and is turning to a gas, a bit like a raising agent in baking. Different salts would react at different temps etc. You can of course catch those gas and convert to purified salt. Not that familiar with ormus - Is that what you are looking for

You could look at using a alembic which is easier to let run over longer periods especially if you have a dedicated shed or such. They do not require running water ie they are air cooled. I have never used mine with a vacuum, they seem more delicate than modern glassware, but perhaps they can

If you have yet to buy a mantle, I would say don't get one with less than 1 litre capacity, and so also 1 litre flask. Make sure all your joint sizes are the same such as 45/40

http://www.neubert-glas.de/laborglas/onlineshop/katalog_php/1_995727484085_1295695453648/1295695860316/Alembik-alchemistischer-Helm.html

theFool
11-18-2013, 10:43 PM
Thanks for the input thoth

Hi, if I was to guess I would say the bubbles are one of the salts of urine reaching its sublimation temp and is turning to a gas, a bit like a raising agent in baking. Different salts would react at different temps etc. You can of course catch those gas and convert to purified salt. Not that familiar with ormus - Is that what you are looking for I'm looking for an oily liquid that has very low boiling point.

Great site what you have found. It has special section for alchemical glassware too!

Using an alembic, hm.. this reminds me of the book of aquarious where the author distills urine at low temp for many days. I cannot use an alembic because
I cannot cool it to freezing temperatures. What I'm looking for (if I will continue the experiment) is a Friedrich Condenser, something like this http://labglass.kimble-chase.com/item/friedrich-condensers/-border-0-src-asset-standard-taper-jpg-24-40-joint/456300-2440? but with the "take off tube" made of ground gass joint

Kiorionis
11-18-2013, 11:11 PM
Hi, if I was to guess I would say the bubbles are one of the salts of urine reaching its sublimation temp and is turning to a gas, a bit like a raising agent in baking. Different salts would react at different temps etc. You can of course catch those gas and convert to purified salt.

In order to sublimate volatile salts don't you need a higher temperature than 100 Celsius, or some volatilizing agent (Mercury)?


theFool:
For some reason I see this experiment as being similar to separating the spirit of wine from wine, and then the oil from the spirit. And what I've learned from distilling wine is that any spirit brought over also carries over a certain amount of the volatile sulphur, which through repeated cohobations and distillations can be separated from the spirit (as per the process laid out in John French's Art of Distillation).

Alcohol boils at about 76 Celsius, and technically anything which it brings over with it also has that boiling temperature. At least that's how I see volatilization working--that is, decreasing the boiling point of other substances through a medium. Maybe it is necessary to do this with urine?

Alos, why is it so important to cool it to freezing temperatures?


I see those tiny bubbles being volatile gases. I once read that if you circulate urine for a number of days, the natural gases we humans pass out with our urine are allowed to escape.
But then again, maybe you need to condense those gases into an oil first through digestion?
I guess I don't know if you're using fresh or putrefied urine...

Just my thoughts :)

thoth
11-19-2013, 12:43 AM
Ah yes I did see the alembic used on that forum.
Maybe a low temp over a long time may work out as well as super cooled & vacuum over a shorter time . Perhaps even cool the distillate in a fridge after you collect it


I do seem to recall some salts subliming at less than 100C. I think Ghislain may have posted some wiki references on that before

theFool
11-19-2013, 11:02 AM
For some reason I see this experiment as being similar to separating the spirit of wine from wine, and then the oil from the spirit. And what I've learned from distilling wine is that any spirit brought over also carries over a certain amount of the volatile sulphur, which through repeated cohobations and distillations can be separated from the spirit ...
...
Alos, why is it so important to cool it to freezing temperatures?
Suppose that you want to seperate the "volatile sulfur" without it mingling with any other spirit. If this volatile sulfur has a very low boiling temp, it will need freezing temperatures to be captured. Slow distillation at normal temperatures can also work because the volatile sulfur is attached (dissolved) to a spirit passing over the alembic, so thats why it doesn't escape in the air. Just an opinion of course.

This operation reminds me a similar from PON lectures, where Dubuis tries to capture a spirit using dry ice temperatures.


Alcohol boils at about 76 Celsius, and technically anything which it brings over with it also has that boiling temperature. At least that's how I see volatilization working--that is, decreasing the boiling point of other substances through a medium. Maybe it is necessary to do this with urine? I don't get you here, you propose to mix alcohol with urine in order to distill the volatile sulfur together with alcohol at lower temperature?


I see those tiny bubbles being volatile gases. I once read that if you circulate urine for a number of days, the natural gases we humans pass out with our urine are allowed to escape.
But then again, maybe you need to condense those gases into an oil first through digestion?
I guess I don't know if you're using fresh or putrefied urine...
I use fresh urine. Ammonium carbonate has no chance to form, neither there is any smell of ammonia.


Maybe a low temp over a long time may work out as well as super cooled & vacuum over a shorter time . Perhaps even cool the distillate in a fridge after you collect it
Thoth, this may work, but we should explain also how is it possible for the volatile spirit to exist in liquid form at normal temperature.


I do seem to recall some salts subliming at less than 100C. I think Ghislain may have posted some wiki references on that before I wouldn't doubt that the tiny bubbles are some volatile salts, but have in mind also that the urine was fresh.

theFool
11-19-2013, 11:12 AM
An update.
Today tried again the distillation with common water. The mist in the condenser appeared again, showing that there is nothing peculiar about it (forms because of freezing). Also the humidity in the condenser appeared exactly as the first time, so nothing to report here. The only peculiar thing I saw the first day, is the tiny bubbles.

I tried again to observe the effect of the tiny bubbles using urine .. but this time I couldn't make it happen. The urine just boiled and there was no "tiny bubble" effect before the boiling. This can be attributed to the fact that I left the urine for one hour in an open vessel, maybe the "spirit" evaporated. Of course other explanation is possible too. I will try the experiment again later, with new urine, to verify the tiny bubble effect.

So, up to now, I was unable to follow the original experiment http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/urine.htm

theFool
12-10-2013, 09:57 AM
So, up to now, I was unable to follow the original experiment http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/urine.htm There is a possibility that the author of the original experiment used putrefied urine.