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Ghislain
12-04-2013, 08:06 PM
This is a spin-off thread from a thread created by Androgynus, “Paradox Power” ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3797-Paradox-Power&p=32358#post32358)

In the thread Armchair alchemy: the first distillation -> Truth from BS ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/archive/index.php/t-2252.html) Ghetto Alchemist writes:


Every person (or source) can be classified into one of these groups:

Type A: tells everything, never lies
Type B: tells some things, never lies
Type C: tells everything, tells a few lies
Type D: tells some things, tells a few lies
Type E: tells everything, always lies
Type F: tells some things, always lies

Dev, in his reply, writes:


One type you forgot is:

Type G: tells somethings, or all things, but really knows jack shit!

I think that we may all be G’s…for what, in the infinite expanse of what is, do we really know?

In its introduction to “Truth” Wikipedia states:


Truth is most often used to mean in accord with fact or reality, or fidelity to an original or to a standard
or ideal.

The commonly understood opposite of truth is falsehood, which, correspondingly, can also take on a
logical, factual, or ethical meaning. The concept of truth is discussed and debated in several contexts,
including philosophy and religion. Many human activities depend upon the concept, which is assumed
rather than a subject of discussion, including science, law, and everyday life.

Various theories and views of truth continue to be debated among scholars, philosophers, and
theologians. Language and words are a means by which humans convey information to one another and
the method used to determine what is a "truth" is termed a criterion of truth. There are differing claims
on such questions as what constitutes truth: what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false;
how to define and identify truth; the roles that faith-based and empirically based knowledge play; and
whether truth is subjective or objective, relative or absolute.

This brings forth a whole lot of other questions:

What is a fact?

What is reality?

Because something has fidelity does it make it true or a close simile of the truth?

It is like the paradox of moving across a set distance, travelling in legs of half the remaining distance each time. You will never get to the end…is that a truth? :)

Do we all have our own truths?

Again I refer to Wikipedia; to the introduction to “The Citeria of Truth” ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criteria_of_truth )


In epistemology, criteria of truth (or tests of truth) are standards and rules used to judge the accuracy
of statements and claims. They are tools of verification. Understanding a philosophy's criteria of truth is
fundamental to a clear evaluation of that philosophy. This necessity is driven by the varying, and
conflicting, claims of different philosophies. The rules of logic have no ability to distinguish truth on their
own. An individual must determine what standards distinguish truth from falsehood. Not all criteria are
equally valid. Some standards are sufficient, while others are questionable.

Is this a subject worthy of discussion or will it fail on its onset because we all hold different truths?

Ghislain

Awani
12-04-2013, 09:27 PM
Truth is relative sure, but I think there is only one real truth that is universal.

It is something that can never be written or spoken. It is a state of mind, a feeling, where all sense of the physical is gone and the only real moment is the infinity of the present full of freedom, wisdom, love and opportunities. A state above morals and ethics.

It has been called nirvana, but that is just a word that hardly touches the real essence of the truth I speak of. It is very fragile, as fragile as the moment between dreaming and waking up. I've almost touched it myself and awe is the first emotional response followed by a feeling that everything was bleeding obvious.

Very hard to keep chained (or pin down). Very hard to explain, but it does exist. I am certain.

:cool:

III
12-05-2013, 04:49 AM
So now it gets down to TRUTH. I would say it exists and can't be actually spoken. TRUTH that describes operating in the metaphysical realm can be applied and if understood, it works. That is to me the real test, if it is TRUTH it works. There is also a qualitative experience of it as being TRUTH. The lack is usually into the translation to the speakable.

I have been in gnosis with a number of people and watched them speak about the truth we were all perceiving at the same time and upon exiting gnosis those who's beliefs were counter to what was they had said suddenly denied what they had proclaimed as truth minutes before while in gnosis

Ghislain
12-06-2013, 02:39 PM
I've almost touched it myself and awe is the first emotional response followed by a feeling that everything was bleeding obvious.

I have been there Dev…on an Ayahuasca Journey, but it was fleeting and I can’t remember what was
so obvious at the time :(

You say it is, “universal”, but then you also say it is a, “state of mind”, does that imply we all have to
have one state of mind to see the truth or that each person’s truth is unique; peculiar to them?


the only real moment is the infinity of the present full of freedom, wisdom, love and opportunities.

That is what I keep coming across; as in the book, "The Power of Now”, by Eckhart Tolle or the online EBook,
“The Present ( http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3371-The-Present)” (Unknown Author not read it yet..only on page 45), which I wrote about a while ago. This is
something I am trying to get my head around, for if we only live in the present then who cares for the future?

Back in the 1800’s there was the Luddite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite) movement who saw the growing technology as detrimental
to the working class; were they right? Time tells us that new technology in the past has displaced
workers, but has actually created more jobs; is that still true today?

When we talk of living in the present moment, is this the same as living with the status quo? I don’t
think so as this would lead to stagnation.

If we colonise other planets before our own Sun burns out, will the credit go to the Luddites among
us or the Amish farmers who shun modern technology or will it go to the forward looking scientists
of today, tomorrow and yesteryear?




That is to me the real test, if it is TRUTH it works.

Or does it just appear to work III. To understand the “Truth” perhaps we should look at its
counterpart, the “Lie”.

I found a good article “How Lying Works ( http://www.howstuffworks.com/lying.htm)” on the “Howstuffworks.com” site; worth a read.


Lying isn't a sign of moral depravity (except when it is). Lying is a sign of cognitive advancement. It
requires a fertile and high-functioning brain to take something as simple as the truth and twist it,
palming off the deception on someone else with the earnestness of a choirboy.

The problem with the truth is that it doesn't always serve our purposes, further our careers or keep
us out of trouble. When you can take the route made of imagination, best-case scenarios and wish
fulfilment, you'd be nuts not to take a deceitful stroll toward your goals, right?


“If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.”
― Mark Twain ( http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1244.Mark_Twain)


“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a
point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for
himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
― Fyodor Mikhaylovich Dostoyevsky ( http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3137322.Fyodor_Dostoyevsky)

That could relate to me :(


“Humans need fantasy to be human; to be in the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.”
― Terry Pratchett ( https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1654.Terry_Pratchett)

The three quotes above are all by people who depend on believable fiction for their livelyhood.

How deep is the truth buried?

Can we handle the truth? <- had to get that one in Jack! :)

Ghislain

Awani
12-06-2013, 06:20 PM
We all share the same mind. All one and all individual, at the same time. A paradox yes. http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3797-Paradox-Power

The present is the future arriving.

:cool: