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Awani
12-22-2013, 01:30 AM
You can download this (Pirate Bay or other sites). So I only post the trailer here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjhB6J23Qjs

:cool:

Andro
12-22-2013, 01:55 AM
I hope it doesn't ever come to that (technological 'singularity').

Although just looking around indicates that this is probably where we're headed...

In any case, this is not my view of 'Transcendence'.

It always reminds me of Doctor Who's 'Cybermen'... or the Daleks... or the Borg... or the AI cops from Almost Human :)

http://whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/41631814_cybermen3_416bbc.jpg

http://doctorwhotoys.net/dalek_soupers.jpg

http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200508/mov-008-enter-borg-queen/320x240.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/Picard_as_Locutus.jpg

I'm familiar with Ray Kurzweil's alternative version of sanity, but I'll download the film anyway for a concentrated perspective.

Awani
12-22-2013, 04:07 AM
Well if we look past the dark robotic/android version of the future and instead imagine a sentient being of high-tech and biology I see no problem with it. Some sort of digital angel. This documentary made me imagine such a version of the AI future instead of the Terminator version.

:cool:

Andro
12-22-2013, 04:10 AM
I hope it doesn't ever come to that (technological 'singularity').
Although just looking around indicates that this is probably where we're headed...
In any case, this is not my view of 'Transcendence'.
Addendum:

I would, however, be willing to progress towards ORGANIC transcendence (as opposed to inorganic/metallic/etc) - by which I mean organic 'hardware'/AI, which we basically already are.

Organic transcendence is also closely related to Alchemy, because the often mentioned (so called) 'Seed of Metals' as well as its awakening/animating nourishment and 'Heavenly' counterpart are both of ORGANIC nature in our current Virtual Reality model of existence... If you know what I'm talking about...

However, even the organic variety of this VR will be eventually transcended...

But meanwhile, IMO, Organic Hacking is most likely the next big thing (as seen in some biotech threads in Body Matters (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?112-Body-Matters)), with High Alchemy being the 'Hackus Ultimatus' :)

Andro
12-22-2013, 04:22 AM
Well if we look past the dark robotic/android version of the future and instead imagine a sentient being of high-tech and biology I see no problem with it. Some sort of digital angel. This documentary made me imagine such a version of the AI future instead of the Terminator version.

OK, but by simply looking around and compiling the promoted trends, where would you say it's going?

http://www.dvice.com/sites/dvice/files/styles/blog_post_media/public/Touch%20screen%20specs.jpg?itok=JvWSzLd6

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/02/movies/02iron.xlarge2.jpg

And to top it off :) :

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/FullyEquippedIronmanSuit_zps5c20c00f.jpg

:cool:

Seth-Ra
12-22-2013, 04:43 AM
Yeah im not fond of the "getting away from organic" mindset.

Unless... its maybe something like the Naaru (sentient crystal-beings of glowing light/consciousness).

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070312133849/wowwiki/images/6/64/D'ore.jpg

Living crystals of sorts... i would be down with that, as its still a type of technology, but still pretty organic. (imo)


While i like the idea of cyborgs in the sense of the "Ghost in the Shell" series, in reality anytime i see a prototype i wanna permanently turn it off... something is just unsettling about it. Maybe cause i know of the Borg also, i dunno. lol
The hyped myth seems to diminish in the face of the disastrous (potentially/most likely) reality.




~Seth-Ra

Andro
12-22-2013, 05:12 AM
On the other hand:

In the Babylon 5 Universe, the oldest races use organic 'technologies', like the Vorlons.

Their ships are organic and linked to their owners/pilots, without whom they cannot exist.

http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/media_gallery_image/public/images/starshipvorlon040912.jpg?itok=r3Bgruv4

From a fansite:

Vorlons transport ships are organic in nature. They apparently live in a symbiotic relationship with their pilot, and are patterned to be used by only one user or group of users. Current data indicates that, should their master be killed, the ships will wander the universe and morn their master's passing. The ship is a part of its users, and it can not live without him/her/it. Once it has mourned long enough, it will perform its last duty and cremate itself and its user's remains in the heart of a star.

The Vorlons also have something somewhat close to what we would call 'Light Bodies' (although not quite 'there' yet, still having organic silicone/crystalline components to their energy bodies) and are often viewed as 'angels' or as other religious manifestations by less advanced cultures. They are also somewhat 'mortal' (they can be killed, although with great difficulty), and they naturally live extremely long compared to Earth humans.

Sketch of a Vorlon's true appearance:

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs27/i/2009/238/f/a/Not_a_Happy_Vorlon_by_The_First_Magelord.jpg

This is also similar to what Babylon 5 predicts for the Earth humans:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SRkjOL3tNM

Finally, in the Babylon 5 Universe, there are the First Ones:

They are far older and more advanced than the older races - pure energy beings, immortal, having no need for ships or encounter body suits.

The oldest 'First One' is Lorien.

He can assume physical form at will:

http://cs308521.userapi.com/v308521312/68a/lWXZjXk8H-M.jpg

But this is his real appearance (holding a human):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/B5_truelorien.jpg

So I wonder where we're headed as a civilization, and whether it's any variation of the above...

Awani
12-22-2013, 02:29 PM
Yes you see. There is a positive union of the two I think (organic and robotic).

It is inevitable. I am sure cave men started complaining when someone invented a stone tool... but when that happened hey presto now we have iPhones. I see the future (if we survive our own greed and genocide) as taking place off-planet. The only way to do this is to improve our bodies.

People always say that genetics is unfair. That it will create people superior to others (because they can afford genetics, a la Gattaca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca)) BUT everything is unfair as it is now. So I don't see a problem with it. None of this will really be an issue in our lives anyway. So why not?

Let's do it!

:cool:

Andro
12-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Yes you see. There is a positive union of the two I think (organic and robotic).
It is inevitable. I am sure cave men started complaining when someone invented a stone tool... but when that happened hey presto now we have iPhones. I see the future (if we survive our own greed and genocide) as taking place off-planet. The only way to do this is to improve our bodies.
People always say that genetics is unfair. That it will create people superior to others (because they can afford genetics, a la Gattaca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca)) BUT everything is unfair as it is now. So I don't see a problem with it. None of this will really be an issue in our lives anyway. So why not?
Let's do it!

First, I think/hope it can/will be organic robotics (as opposed to inorganic tech/implants).

Second, life is unfair by design. Way it goes.
Even if one 'wins' the sperm lottery by birth (or is in a position to purchase compensating upgrades), there will be a price to pay.
There always is, and I'm not referring to money.

Third, this may or may not occur in our lifetimes (progress advances exponentially) - but it may well occur at any time/in any era for those able to accomplish the 'Hackus Ultimatus' of High Alchemy :)

Ghislain
12-22-2013, 03:30 PM
Take a look HERE (http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2013/march/bil-gates.html)

Not as far away as you may think!

Is it just me or does the guy in the link look like a young Jeff Goldblum?

http://golden-galleries.com/jeff-goldblum/gallery/albums/the-fly-jeff/06/thumb_VTS_01_2_2152.jpg (http://moviecultists.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fly-jeff-goldblum.jpg)

Perhaps we should take a bit more care with technology lol.

Ghislain

Andro
12-22-2013, 03:38 PM
Take a look HERE (http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2013/march/bil-gates.html)

Yeah baby! That's what I'm talking about :)

Like I said before, Bio-Computing/Bio-Hacking may well be the next big thing.

If I had any 'serious' (as opposed to 'funny') money, that's where I would invest it :)

And here's the new professional term for this emerging craft: BIT Specialist (BIT = Bio IT = Bio Information Technology)

:cool:

Andro
12-25-2013, 07:24 AM
On the topic of AI Singularity, you can read The Last Question (http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last-question) by Asimov.

Complementary thread on AF: The Last Answer (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3243-The-Last-Answer).

Andro
12-25-2013, 08:07 AM
I just finished watching the film, and I think I figured out the main flaw with Ray Kurzweil's outlook.

He's basically attempting to 'invent' what has already been around forever.

We already ARE what he is attempting to 're-create' us into, we just haven't tapped into it yet.

This might sound surprising coming from me, but he gave away 'The Flaw' in his last statement in the movie, where he says:

"Does god exist? Not yet."Setting aside how we interpret 'god', the Universal Mind/Consciousness is ever/omnipresent, time/space-less, without regard to any incidental space/time game-show like the one we're experiencing now.

No, I haven't become religious overnight :)

I am neither Theist nor Atheist.

I am Alchemist... Whole different ballgame :)

And the Alchemist (IMO) already knows what he works with and that he doesn't need to 'invent' or 'upgrade' it.

Just tap into what's already always present - and manifest.

Hough.

lwowl
12-25-2013, 04:05 PM
Hello,
This subject is at the heart of alchemy and has occupied my attention for quite some time. I think the goal of alchemy is transcendence, and that ultimately leads to the origin of everything unfolding from the singularity. The contemplation of this leads to paradox.

The examples given so far are among my all time favorite Sci Fi stories. Even though Dr. Who is an optimist the Cybermen and Daleks represent the dark side of cyborg transcendence. The Borg are even darker in the representation of the loss of individuality in an insectoid social evolution. I think we are heading in that direction as a collective society integrating technology that is expanding faster than an individual can absorb. The alternative is alchemical initiation of the individual.

I think Arthur C. Clark was the first to explore this divergence in Childhood’s End. Kurt Vonnegut dealt with the becoming cyborg situation with ironic humor in Slaughterhouse 5, Sirens of Titan, and Venus on a Half Shell. The most advanced humanoids were Tralfamadorans. Once they were flesh and blood creatures like us but over the millennia they had replaced their biological parts with artificial ones until they looked around and saw that not one among them had any original biological parts.

Androgynus’ Addendum suggests that we as individuals will try most anything to extend or improve our lives. Organic Transcendence is part of the Alchemy Tradition. First we attempt to extend our lives by adopting measures that prove effective: seeking out or confecting nutriments that help us maintain vitality. The loss of which becomes more noticeable when we succeed in living long enough to suffer the erosion of old age. We’ll take on organ transplants to prolong our lives. We’ll also take on artificial parts if needed when available. In order to keep up with the information stream we will jack in cybernetic enhancements.

Eventually we could end up like the Tralfamadorans and the immortal aliens from Childhood’s End: individuals that have perfected themselves to the point of reaching the end of physical evolution. The Tralfamadorans became bored with the Universe and spent their time screwing with the “lesser” intelligent beings for something to do. The aliens from Childhood’s End realized they had reached the end of evolution and had missed the opportunity of Transcendence. So they traveled to other worlds to witness the Transcendence of other beings and tried to understand that unfathomable mystery.

Babylon 5 covered it well when at the end of the great war the first ones transcended themselves and were no longer available in the known universe. At the very end of the series Earthings far in the future had transcended their biological selves and were light beings that came to witness the end of Earth as the sun exploded at the end of its life.

We have the capacity to evolve growing out of our own Seed. According to the Taoist Alchemists we also have a light body but it lies dormant like a seed until we germinate it.

lwowl

Awani
01-01-2014, 07:28 PM
New movie that relates to all this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCTen3-B8GU

:cool:

Andro
02-02-2014, 10:48 AM
Tom Campbell (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3897-Tom-s-Big-TOE) (sort of obliquely) addresses the topic of 'Technological Trans-Humanism':

Is Technology the Solution to Positive Evolution?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir7s74-CCTg

Ghislain
02-02-2014, 07:10 PM
'Artificial life' breakthrough announced by scientists (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10132762)

Tiny human almost-brains made in lab (https://www.sciencenews.org/article/tiny-human-almost-brains-made-lab)

'Zombie' cells are created in lab... and they outperform their living counterparts (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2282514/Zombie-cells-created-lab--outperform-living-counterparts.html)

Three-parent embryo formed in lab (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7227861.stm)

Doctors able to PRINT entire body parts ears noses using 3D printing technology (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2343041/Doctors-able-PRINT-entire-body-parts-ears-noses-using-3D-printing-technology.html)

The list goes on and on...

"What ever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve." Napoleon Hill

Perhaps this goes hand in hand with what Tom Campbell is saying in Androgynus' post above.

Do we have the intelligence to identify the areas within which we could or should try to manipulate?

Isn't it all about balance?

http://mppierce66.home.comcast.net/~mppierce66/web/fi/diveintomark.16.gif

Ghislain

Kiorionis
02-02-2014, 09:40 PM
Three-parent embryo formed in lab (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7227861.stm)

I was excited when I saw this. Thought it might have something to do with triple DNA helix structures and complex science stuff. Turns out its not as cool as I wanted it to be. Turns out they just did classic genetic addition and subtraction.

Andro
04-27-2014, 05:49 PM
A snapshot from the beginning of the movie 'Immortal (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0314063/)' ('Ad Vitam'):

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/Nikopol_zps50b70289.jpg

Andro
07-01-2014, 06:27 AM
New movie that relates to all this

http://kickass.to/torrentwidget/8B6D4B6313C49CBEBD08AA392B67396217529F78.png (http://kickass.to/transcendence-2014-1080p-web-dl-dd5-1-h264-rarbg-t9280089.html)

or

http://kickass.to/torrentwidget/BCACB22FE26282A45FFC493CF3DABC2D6BD11995.png (http://kickass.to/transcendence-2014-hdrip-xvid-ac3-evo-t9280270.html)

solomon levi
07-01-2014, 07:11 AM
yes, it really is the heart of alchemy :)
Adam is the red clay (iron silicate). Eve is the living crystal extracted from Adam's side/rib.
We've been living on/in/as a computer planet of iron oxide and silicon dioxide for so long...
it's nothing new. The matrix is very old. The stones remember it better than humans do.
The matrix had to be here before we could dream/simulate this, these bodies, etc.
And now man is making god/computer/apple in God's/computer's/matrix (mother earth's) image...
a dream world within a dream world within a dream world...
carbon DNA we call "organic"...
silicon DNA is inorganic, without body, "angelic", simulated, imagined... like the ego.
but calling "us" organic doesn't make it the center of the universe.
it's all frequency. i am much more than this organic body.
we are more than the electromagnetic cross we bear.
but what if we bridge the cross and the more?
instead of deny the cross and just be more, or deny the more and just be cross?

solomon levi
07-01-2014, 07:22 AM
And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. - the gospel of Matthew

Dragonsblood
07-04-2014, 08:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCTen3-B8GU&feature=kp

Trancendence (Johnny Depp), finally a movie about Singularity not driven by a fear based agenda..

Andro
10-22-2014, 06:56 AM
I hope it doesn't ever come to that (technological 'singularity').
Although just looking around indicates that this is probably where we're headed...
In any case, this is not my view of 'Transcendence'.
Queen: 'Machines' ('Back To Humans'):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlJXHc4jb30

Andro
11-30-2014, 06:45 AM
Here is an excerpt from Richard Linklater's film 'Boyhood':


I finally figured it out. It’s, like, when they realized it was going to be too expensive to actually build cyborgs and robots – I mean, the costs of that were impossible – they decided to just let humans turn themselves into robots. That’s what’s going on right now. I mean, why not? There are billions of us just laying around not really doing anything. We don’t cost anything, and we’re even pretty good at self-maintenance and reproducing constantly. And, as it turns out, we’re already biologically programmed for our little cyborg upgrade. Seriously. I read this thing the other day about how, like, when you hear that ding on your inbox you get a, like, a dopamine rush in your brain. It’s like we’re being chemically rewarded for allowing ourselves to be brainwashed. How evil is that? We’re fucked.And here is an excerpt from an interview from 1998 that's related to the above concepts:


“The [elite] looked at the plan that made the transcending (i.e. transhumanist) technologies available to everyone from two angles: one, if the technology could be introduced at birth, it would mitigate the cost issues of health care and education, offsetting diffusion costs. But it would have to be a government implemented service. No private company could secure sufficient trust. So a critical component was to make the United Nations the credible world organization that could introduce transhumanism to the global stage.

“The second angle was to allow class distinctions and free markets to eventually make the technology irresistible to everyone, and then allow government subsidies to bring down the costs sufficiently to enable its dispersion.

“All of this sounds very altruistic, but the quality of the technologies would be variant. Elite classes would be able to secure higher quality implantations coupled to more responsive genetics. This would simply be a human civilization that would be attempting to purge discontent and disobedience, in favor of participation in a ruled system of government by elite transhumans.

“Technology will evolve from external-impersonal, to external-personal, to integrated-personal (miniaturization of the technology will enable it to adorn the body; it will not be internal yet, but it is part of the human body, like clothing, glasses, watches, and jewelry), to internal-personal.

"Transhumanism is the last phase, and it is the phase that the elite are moving to. The internal-personal is based on exactly the same paradigm of what is now the human condition—namely, humans have a programmed interface that’s integral to their human body, and is powered by the infinite source of which they truly are.

“Humanity will play God to itself. It will try to engineer a better human and a better civilization.

“It will do this because it can’t imagine how humanity can save itself through simple behaviors and the realization that these behaviors can make. They will do it because they are programmed to become integrated with technology. This is the path [some] seek to avert. They write that human beings are complete if they can step out of their consciousness frameworks and realize what is actually powering their systems, their artificial realities, their programmed existence. The integration of technology internally will only make this realization more difficult.”
SOURCE (http://glamour-and-discourse.blogspot.co.il/p/were-already-biologically-programmed.html)
_____________________________________

My personal take on this:

I find Technological Trans-humanism unacceptable (for me) and, on a larger scale, I would say it's the 'job' of advanced Alchemists to provide alternatives that are organic and naturally evolving/evolutionary.

Awani
11-30-2014, 10:53 AM
I agree that it is unacceptable, but if I distance myself from my human/organic bias I really don't see a problem.

The future race is not humans. But the future race cannot evolve without humans. The only way we are going to leave the planet and explore the universe, and terra form galaxies, is if we get rid of our shitty organic bodies.

We need to upload our creative and loving qualities into a super machine/robot that needs neither air nor water to live, only the light from stars.

Another theory I have is that we will live fully organic in the Garden of Eden, but with virtual reality tech that allows us to experience machines, war, sin etc. And maybe we already did this... And we just forgot to turn it off!!!

:cool:

Andro
11-30-2014, 11:03 AM
I agree that it is unacceptable, but if I distance myself from my human/organic bias I really don't see a problem.

The future race is not humans. But the future race cannot evolve without humans. The only way we are going to leave the planet and explore the universe, and terra form galaxies, is if we get rid of our shitty organic bodies.

We need to upload our creative and loving qualities into a super machine/robot that needs neither air nor water to live, only the light from stars.

What I'm talking about is an Internal Evolution that is not delivered by commercialized technological 'implants'. I think we have to evolve ourselves.

'Organic' is just a medium/stepping stone, not an end in itself. We will evolve beyond that. One small quantum leap at the time :)

As for exploring Earth and the galaxies, I am personally not interested. I've seen enough of it OOB already, and it's pretty boring after the initial excitement. Just more of the same, disguised in different forms. Our own fractally embedded microcosm is enough exploration to cover these, IMSU.

I am much more attracted to the Vertical (higher/other realities) than to more of the physical universe.

Nobody count on me for the next space program :)

And I agree with the 'Light from the Stars' ( i.e. Universal Spirit) as the next level of nourishment/nutrition/energy intake.

And I don't think we need to 'upload ourselves' into an external super-machine/robot to accomplish all these. We can BECOME this vehicle. Or evolve it out of ourselves.

Andro
11-30-2014, 11:15 AM
Addendum:


neither air nor water to live, only the light from stars.

I think this will soon become a sheer necessity rather than an option.

Most soils have become depleted of nutrients, so even the healthiest nutrition available today will be deficient to some extent, and not enough to sustain us properly, let alone accelerate our evolution.

So we will have to turn to the stars for sustenance, at least throughout the next step. 'Celestial Agriculture'. Once again, I see Alchemy as the Key to this transition.

Eventually, we would be able to be nourished directly by the Universal Spirit, stars or not...

Again, one small quantum leap at the time :)

Ghislain
11-30-2014, 11:54 AM
I have always believed that we are machines, physically that is. Just look at your own body, take a look at your leg...move it about and see it as a tool; when I do that I find it amusing, it doesn't seem to be part of "me".

Look at DNA and the information stored within it...amazing program!

So I think your proposal Dev is not out of the ordinary, but what part of these machines that we are is the driver; most programs need drivers to interface with their surroundings. Have our drivers become so complex that we now believe we are the creators?

Recently here in the UK the Black Friday deals have been adopted...I was appalled to see the greed and total lack of concern for others that "normal" people manifested to get a deal. One news report showed anarchy in a store and a grown woman wrestling with a child over a television. The child had it and the woman was trying to pull it from him until, what appeared to be, his father intervened. In one day people became rabid animals, reminded me of a zombie film...what hope is there for humanity on the whole.


Alistair Reynolds, Century Rain: “Enjoy it, kid. Enjoy feeling that you can make a difference.' Floyd flashed him a smile. 'It won't last for ever.”

I like to think there is a higher self, but am I delusional?

Ghislain

Dendritic Xylem
11-30-2014, 07:12 PM
I think it's extremely improbable that we are the most advanced organic beings in the Universe.

IMO, if there are other races who have already expanded to multiple planets, then we should try to learn from them. Otherwise we're just some primitive monkey race that doesn't even understand gravity. It doesn't matter how smart we humans think we are...there will always be smarter beings out there. Unless we're the top of the Universal food chain. (unlikely)

People like Androgynus have spent much time astrally travelling, and so they are much more familiar with space than an average human. But I think there is a big difference between experiencing something with your spirit vs your physical being. Watching an episode of gilligans island is fairly boring. You know and understand everything that's happening in that episode. But if you personally got trapped on a tropical island, with your own physical body...it would be quite an experience.

DonSweet
12-01-2014, 07:02 AM
Hmmmmmmm ...

DonSweet
12-01-2014, 06:57 PM
In all likelyhood I have more to say on this subject, but for the time-being I'll past an excerpt from a novel I'm writing to give you an idea of how I feel about it ...

Lieutenant Waterson was at the security station. She was talking into her headset and her link was dropped over her left eye. Things looked pretty hectic. I stood there a few seconds waiting to catch her free eye.

"Confirmed, Major. Repeat. Security condition Bravo. I have no further information at this time." said Waterson in a very official tone. This is the same woman that went berserk with joy just two days ago, jumping all over me when we beat the Marines at radball. It's an undersized court here, and you have to move all the exercise equipment off the floor. Maybe size worked to our advantage with those behemoths.

"Major, the Captain would like a word with you. I'll transfer," she said robotically.

"What!" I spouted from a surprise tap on my shoulder as I turned to see who it was. Waterson jerked around from her work, too. Behind me was CVR9. I should have known. The "finger" tapping me was metal. "Jeeze Nine!" I said into the lenses that were his eyes.

"Sorry Dave," Nine replied cocking his so-called head to one side. The mouth shaped speaker under them added, "I was asked to inform you that we're in a security condition Bravo and you shouldn't be in operations at this time."

"Did you want something, Grant?" I heard behind me. It was Waterson and she didn't sound pleased.

I turned back to her and said, "I was just looking for McDunn. You seen him?"

"I'm not authorized to give out that information." I wasn't sure who was the bot here, Waterson with her tone, or rather the lack of it, or CVR9.

"I just wanted to ..." another metallic tap on my shoulder. "One second Nine," I said a little annoyed and brushed the titanium paw away from me.

Waterson poked a fingertip on her console killing her headset. "Look Dave," she said with one half angry and one half frightened eye, "There's stuff going on down there and I can't talk right now," she said firmly, but breaking out of her mold slightly.

"I just needed to ..." I barely got the words out when she interrupted.

"McDunn just shuttled to the surface, I have my hands full. I can't help you," she said with intentional seriousness. She turned back to her console and tapped her headset back on. "Yes, sir, I'll get on that right away," she said as if I didn't exist.

"Dave," another steel tap on my shoulder. This time it repeated and didn't stop. It even started to hurt a little. I whipped around pulling my shoulder out from under the annoyance.

Before I could open my mouth, Nine lowered his appendage and said "Time to go Dave." His other arm reached up for my right shoulder and he got a pretty good grip pretty fast.

"I'm sorry, Nine, but I have official business with Lieutenant Waterson. Gimme a sec will ya?" I said as I reached for his claw to pull it off. And this was our cheering section during that same radball game, now pawing at me. "Besides, since when do you work for Security?" I asked as my hand moved the cold, silver digits.

"They asked me to help out for a while," Nine replied. "They really need you out of the way Dave," he added attempting to be convincing.

"Just give me ONE minute. Just ONE minute," I waggled a single flesh finger in front of his glass eyes.

I turned back to Waterson and, not waiting for her attention and asked, "Lieutenant, under security condition Bravo what is the status of the seventeen hundred briefing?"

This time she didn't have to turn off her headset. "The seventeen hundred briefing is still scheduled but now limited to secure, corporate, governmental, scientific and military personnel only." She was starting to sound more and more like a cop. Then again, that's what she was.

"Wait a minute. You mean NOT me?" I replied to her announcement.

"Not you," she said turning back to me with a cold cop stare from that one free eye. "CVR9, escort Master Grant out of operations," she said with finality. I felt that cold claw on my shoulder again

Nine sat across from me in the can. "You know what's going on Nine?" I asked of my metallic friend.

"Sorry, Dave, you're not at that security level," Nine replied.

"Oh, gee, thanks buddy. I thought we were pals." I wasn't pleased.

We sat quietly for a moment while the shuttle took us to quarters. Naturally, Nine didn't need quarters, although there was his various docking stations. I'd seen him out working on the ship on the way here. There's ten CVR units that service the ship. For whatever reason, which is odd since they're all the same, Nine and I seem to have a connection.

"Tired Dave?" Nine asked, probably trying to make conversation.

"No, it's just a little upsetting being locked out like that," I replied rubbing my hands on my face as I sat.

The door to the can opened and I stood to head for my room. "Mind if I come along?" Nine asked.

"Should I mind Nine? They probably want you to anyway, don't they." It wasn't really a question.

"Dave," Nine began, "sometimes I think you don't like me much. You know, I'm very much a likeable sort."

I stepped through the shuttle door and replied, "Now there's a question for ya. Why is that Nine?" Nine followed. I was in no hurry. His metal feet clicked on the deck of the corridor. "Why is it that you and I get along so well? Hmmm?"

I stopped a few steps out of the shuttle door and turned to Nine. He stopped behind me and cocked his head as before in operations, but said nothing.

"Wait a minute," I stared straight into Nine's lenses. "Did they assign you to me?"

Nine straightened his mechanical noggin. I could barely hear the micro pneumatics and hydraulics performing the operation. These newer models are a lot quieter than most.

"Daaavvveee," replied Nine, as if to shrug it off, but without much hesitation he added, "Yes."

"Hold on now," I said as I stood there a bit confused. "First you barely hide the reason for you and I getting all buddy-buddy. After all, I did figure it out. And second, I ask you about it and you just come out and tell me?"

"Yes," was all Nine had to say.

"So they just programmed you to tell me if I asked?" I was feeling a little intrusion at this point.

"No," Nine said with the same cryptic shortness.

"Wait," now I was really confused, "Then why did you tell me if it wasn't part of your programming?"

Nine reached towards me with his shiny metallic arm. The metallic digits on the end of it extended to the pad in my pocket. He removed it and drew it back to his chest. He said nothing. I said nothing. I'd never seen a tech behave like this.

He placed the pad into the dock on his chest for a moment. His so-called fingers let it go for just a short breath. Then, he pulled it out and handed it back to me. I looked first at it, inches from my face, then past it into his camera eyes.

"Read the log," came from his speaker mouth.

Nothing came from mine. I looked, and looked again. I reached up and grasped the pad. With a little tug I pulled, but his fingers held it tight. I was confused. There was no reason for him to physically dock my pad. Unless, of course, he didn't want to transmit to it. Any transmission would be recorded with Security.

"No one else sees this," CVR9 said with a most serious tone. The grip held.

I looked from the pad to his metallic face and into those twin, glassy eyes. I guess he saw acknowledgement in mine and released the pad. I slipped it back into my pocket.

Still saying nothing I began to turn to my quarters. The thought of my zeta wave discovery flashed through my head. I glanced back at Nine, half turned. He was frozen there just staring at me. I was tempted to ask him "What log?" but figured I'd just get back to my bunk and see what this was all about.

As I turned and walked away I heard Nine get back into the can.

Andro
12-06-2014, 04:20 PM
Stephen Hawking warns: Artificial Intelligence will enslave/lead to destruction of humanity


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JE-yeaAqRw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fnNLLnYhds

Dendritic Xylem
12-06-2014, 08:03 PM
According to the underground hacker circles, Artificial Intelligence was already created and it has taken over the internet. Supposedly it is part of the Mariana's Web.

This person has been trying to crack Mariana. There are some interesting blog posts.
http://searchformarianasweb.tumblr.com/

A long text file full of information on a topic that excited me greatly. For it seems the Americans somehow found out about the Mariana project while the British were still designing it. For true to its name, tangodown contained a log of messages between various defence officials, detailing their conversations on how best to take the AI down if it ever came to it.

I’ll be out of here soon, and triumphant - because now we have a way to fight back against Mariana.


Three forty PM, December 18th. Everything changed.

The page loaded and I frowned in surprise. I was staring at a poster starring my face, and the words “FBI’s Most Wanted”. I’ve had better starts to my afternoon, to be honest.

Scrolling down beneath the image, I found a few lines of text.

"Ryan, we know who you are. We know everything that has taken place. The Fifth Level, hacking our servers, poking your nose places where you shouldn’t have.

They gave you up, Ryan. Marie, Proton, everyone who you thought you could trust.

The picture you saw above will be the front page of every newspaper in your country and ours. You will be hunted down; the judge or jury will not spare you.

Unless, of course, you choose to comply.

Units have been dispatched to Britain. We will meet you. Your family have been ‘informed’, and will not prevent you. Leave peacefully, or not at all.

You have three days. Make your choice wisely."

Awani
12-07-2014, 12:39 AM
Ha ha ha... don't agree one bit with any of this judgment day paranoia.

Especially when it is delivered from somebody (like in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JE-yeaAqRw#t=157)) that uses the word Satanic when talking about AI. In fact the guy who hosts that video actually writes on his YouTube page:


Just like stupid teenagers reach a phase where they think they know everything and hate their parents, so too will AI, but instead of growing out of it, the machine, which will likely be called Lucifer, will end up destroying or enslaving humanity. 

Pathetic.

If AI is the end of humanity, IMO, then it is more in terms of evolution. What do we care about the death of the dinosaurs now? And thank fuck they died... so we can be here... now we are the seeds of the future race. It is very likely that nature invented Man in order for Man to invent AI.

:cool:

DonSweet
12-07-2014, 02:40 AM
100% agreement Dev.

Andro
12-07-2014, 05:12 AM
The 'End of Humanity' is not a 'bad' thing as such, IMO.

Humanity is not a species/race/tribe/etc...

It's a condition, a state of things, a step on the Ladder of Becoming...

Just like in Alchemy, matters can be evolved/altered to other states.

I have no problem with evolution/transformation.

However... :)

I personally don't see technological/man-made A.I. (aren't we already A.I. of sorts, anyway?) as an acceptable means of evolving/upgrading my condition.

I don't think humans are an upgraded version of dinosaurs... But I can't say for sure... Maybe it was those technologically advanced gene-splicing dinosaur aliens :)

Evolution/change is inevitable.

My questions are:

1. If/when micro-chip/cyborg implants become mandatory, will you freely/willingly welcome them? Or will you 'run for the hills'?

2. Will you freely/willingly upload your 'consciousness' to the man-made 'cloud' server?

Personally, I think there are much more 'tempting' alternatives to shed the presently-known-as-human condition and evolve to the next level.

But that's another discussion altogether...

DonSweet
12-07-2014, 06:31 AM
Personally, I think there's already AI's and implanted types, just not in the public view.

In the 1970's, my Naval Intelligence uncle let it slip that the things you saw in James Bond films were like cartoons or comic books compared what really went on, and that was more than forty years ago. I can't imagine what they've done since then, behind closed doors and without scrutiny.

What supports that is the the unarguable fact that the military-industrial complex is unfettered by either budgets, patents, logistical limits or even morality. They can do as they like. I've heard it said they are fifty generations ahead of us technologically. Not hard to fathom given their lack of limitations.

Point is, even if it hasn't happened (unlikely), it will, and it will happen in every shade of gray you can imagine ... just like real life ... part machine human cyborgs that range from minimal implants to barely human, to full machine.

Thing is ... the entity that is either largely or entirely machine will always have a curiosity about humans or even minimal implant types ...

... and perhaps even harbor ill-will towards us for it, although I hope not ...

... since they will never experience an orgasm.

Ghislain
12-07-2014, 04:58 PM
... since they will never experience an orgasm.

Can you be sure?

Why do we?

May they not use it for a similar purpose?

People forget that even with AI there still comes great complexity and then things are not as simple, so as AI gets more advanced it may get bogged down in ever increasing complexity until it acts in a way it cannot fathom and finally you're back to human.

Maybe there will be AI psychiatrists. ;)

Here's a thought, why don't we splice our DNA with a chlorophyll producing gene and then we can go in the sun to eat :)
You don't see many plants with skin cancer! Would bring down CO2 levels. we would exhale oxygen...
or maybe not, as the mitochondria could use that to metabolise the sugars we create in the photosynthesis.

But they would probably tax the light :(

Ghislain

DonSweet
12-07-2014, 05:39 PM
Was hoping to provoke a response Ghislain!

It's an interesting question, which naturally opens the foray into other physical and emotional experiences.

Since machines would "spawn" simply through construction and learn merely through programming, what will their experience of existence be when they're at a cognizant, conscious level? They may be able to review recordings of orgasms, even artificially generate nerve ending stimuli and emulate brain synapse sequences, but without cells, glands, a biological nervous system, hormones and the rest, what will their experience be? Maybe anything like an orgasm will be wholly irrelevant to their experience and a non-issue. After all, do we wonder what an amoeba "feels" when it splits into two cells?

Incorporate every morsel of knowledge Mankind has accumulated into a single, mobile, self-sustaining, self-replicating machine and what do you have?

I have my doubts that such an entity would either have the need for such a thing as an orgasm, and would experience any such elation in a way none of us could even begin to imagine.

It's rumored that ETs interact with such machines, and that their transport vehicles in particular are cognizant, conscious beings that link telepathically with their passengers. It's also rumored that ETs have the capacity to "ask" such machines to physically manifest any object that's a result of either need or desire.

I'd imagine that anything you can possibly imagine is in all probability out there, particularly since imagination is likely the only unconquerable, interminable frontier.

Ghislain
12-07-2014, 06:40 PM
It's rumored that ETs interact with such machines, and that their transport vehicles in particular are cognizant, conscious beings that link telepathically with their passengers. It's also rumored that ETs have the capacity to "ask" such machines to physically manifest any object that's a result of either need or desire.

Science fiction is littered with examples, one of which are Bioships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioship), which are composed, either predominantly or totally, of biological components, rather than being constructed from manufactured materials, as in the television series, "Farscape" where one of the central characters is a sentient bioship named Moya.

If one could create a device that could be placed into an environment without tools, that could self fuel, self repair and reproduce using only the materials available on the surface of that environment, with all the necessary instructions built into all the constructive cells of its being, its structure adaptable to its environment and the ability to self learn, what would that be?

I want one! ;)

Ghislain

Andro
12-07-2014, 06:43 PM
I want one!

You ARE one!

Just hack your own activation code :)

Ghislain
12-07-2014, 06:53 PM
My point Androgynus...

Take it further, what if those things were not devices but food...Farm Planet Earth is ripe to harvest :(

Pass me another white one ...oh and a couple of the yellow they're quite spicy. ;)

Ghislain

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/211/a/0/roasting_over_a_fire_by_maledollmaker-d595mbk.jpg

Yummy!

Awani
12-08-2014, 02:32 PM
1. If/when micro-chip/cyborg implants become mandatory, will you freely/willingly welcome them? Or will you 'run for the hills'?

2. Will you freely/willingly upload your 'consciousness' to the man-made 'cloud' server?


1. = No, although it depends on what they can do. Can they create a virtual reality world... an illusionary physical plane of the Internet that I can step into? If so then YES.

2. = We've already started this process. ;)


People like Androgynus have spent much time astrally travelling, and so they are much more familiar with space than an average human. But I think there is a big difference between experiencing something with your spirit vs your physical being.

Unless you are unaware your are astrally traveling, or dreaming, a physical experience is way different than a non-physical. Even if, really, there is neither.

:cool:

Andro
12-08-2014, 03:17 PM
Can they create a virtual reality world... an illusionary physical plane of the Internet that I can step into? If so then YES.

Watch Caprica (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0799862/) :)

Technology from Caprica Series on SyFy is Already Here (http://singularityhub.com/2010/02/11/technology-from-caprica-series-on-scyfy-is-already-here/)

http://kickass.so/torrentwidget/4787c8b5a686cbaae54d7b4a2f3935cb8da36870.png (http://kickass.so/caprica-ae-the-complete-series-t5026991.html)


A physical experience is way different than a non-physical.

Not necessarily, not always.

Sometimes it's as 'real'/'physical' as it gets... Sometimes even more...

On certain astral levels/'locales' (for lack of a better term), the 'senses' can be overwhelmed by the high definition/resolution sensory input.

Amplify the (perceived as) physical senses by a factor of x100, if not x1000.

It can feel entirely like the physical, or even sharper. Very present, very 'immersed'.

When properly journeying to such 'locales', the senses we know are still the senses we know, often with quite a few enhancements and additions.

They just operate on a different 'vibrational' level, so to speak, but, when on that level, it's still 'physical', because one interacts on the same vibrational level. (touch is still touch, etc...)

This does not necessarily apply to ALL non-physical 'locales', but it does apply to many of them, and quite a lot on the Astral Earth Rings/Levels (with some enhancements).

It's difficult to explain, it has to be experienced.

DonSweet
12-09-2014, 02:30 AM
Concur with a lot being said here.

I will, however, offer an alternative perspective to "Astra Projection."

If one argues that our more permanent state is elsewhere (as in a "Higher Self"), then we, here, are actually the astral projection.

One way of looking at it is a simple addition to a ride at Disney or any amusement park ... their ability to wipe out your life-experience memory for the duration of the ride. That's what it's like here on the physical plane. You don't know where you come from, you don't know how you got here, and you're not really very good at figuring out what you're supposed to be doing now that you're here ... so you're carried along for the most part with the current of your experience.

Not much different from inducements from psychedelic drugs. The drug controls the ride, and you're in awe simply because the experience falls so far outside your sense of normalcy.

Fresh back from a rather excellent sweat lodge last night, and having experienced the altered state of drugs (many years ago), there's no comparison. Even just going there, I always feel like I'm going home. In that experience, my physical senses become severely muted. I REconnect with a part of myself, and it is distinctly familiar and fulfilling. There's always a sense of both elation and disappointment walking away ... disappointment that I couldn't stay there. It's not much different than people who discuss near death experiences expressing a disappointment of having to come back.

How this all ties in to the discussion of AI and Singularity, is the idea that everything is consciousness, merely at different levels of it. Even a rock possesses a level of consciousness. It's an aspect of this physical reality, as it is projected by the Universe's core consciousness. [In my opinion], nothing exists that is not the result of Universal Core Consciousness, therefore everything is an aspect of that consciousness. That would apply to our metallic and silicone friends, too.

We are looking from "below" ... not "above." We are looking from a limited perspective, essentially unfulfilled, not an unlimited or fulfilled perspective.

Just like we can look into the past at former civilizations, groups or individuals and ask, "Why the hell did they do THAT?" They could never look at us from where they were and know for a moment that A) They were being stupid about something they considered normal and B) would have the slightest inkling as to why or how we do what we do.

It's all point of reference based on knowledge and understanding.

Someone 300 years from now might possibly read this thread and remark, "What assholes. Couldn't they see it? It's so obvious. How'd they even function?"

We simply don't have that reference given our limited knowledge and understanding.

The majority of SciFi movies and comic books from the early 20th century are just laughable. Almost nothing turned out that way.

Some projections -- but very few -- were extraordinarily visionary, and often you find the ones that were were total social outcasts and fringe "lunatics." So conventional attitudes and views can be pretty comfortably eliminated from predicting a complex future.

Point is, if you expect any hope of accuracy in figuring out any of this shit, it better not be from your limited earthly perspective or experience. It's GOT to draw on things you DON'T know, since the world of tomorrow will be jam-packed with things you can't possibly imagine now.

Interesting conundrum.

Andro
12-09-2014, 05:06 AM
Yes, it's all Mind/Consciousness, experienced on/from a wide variety of different levels.

No, we are not looking from 'Below' (as opposed to 'Above'). One's 'Above' is another's 'Below'.

It makes no sense (to me) to use such absolutes within a reality construct that is relative/subjective by design.

'Above' and 'Below' are merely relative points of reference on a virtual continuum.

What happens/ed in a different (so-called 'past') 'time' reference is not 'laughable'. Whoever finds such things 'laughable' is missing the picture, IMO.

It is the 'spirit of the time', which is constantly evolving, not unlike some of us :)

All perspectives in our Mentally Generated Virtual Time/Space Reality Construct, no matter what level they're from, are limited in knowledge/understanding by design, as long as they are knowable.

UN-known is another word for yet-to-be-known. UN-knowable is a different cuppa, but then again I couldn't possibly know :)

So, in a sense, everything knowable is A.I.

Call it Natural Artificial Intelligence (i.e. 'Intelligent Design', etc...)

And we are already 'Singularity', on a certain level. Yes, Singularity is a Continuum as well, on which there are evolutionary 'stepping stones'.

I personally don't dismiss/reject the possibility that 'we' can make machines that can eventually integrate Self-Awareness at a higher level than the awareness of the parts they're made of.

Our physical vehicles are no different, IMO. But the Awareness aspect didn't/won't come from the engineers/programmers. It will/would be a Spirit/Mind 'Singularity', not a man-engineered one.

And when/if such a Spirit/Mind-activated Awareness/Singularity comes to be(come), I doubt the 'engineers' would be able to exert any control over it in the longer run.

For those of you who are into reproducing/breeding, it can be a wonderful experience, but you're only growing/naturally 'engineering' a vehicle for Consciousness.

The 'Activation' that turns your fetus/baby-vehicle into a self-aware Singularity is not parent-generated.

Making baby-vehicles is not so different from compiling code. Code can be computer/genetic/etc...

The so-called 'Breath of Life' activation, however, is not performed by the code.

The code is merely a Vessel/Receptacle (Alchemically: 'Magnet') for Spirit/Consciousness, be it the coding of a fetus, a mega-robot or a super quantum computer.

The activated code would gradually/eventually re-program/upgrade itself via Spirit/Mind/Consciousness. We can do the same with ourselves. Starting with becoming better Philosophical Magnets.

I 'hope' that 'we' will manage to achieve a higher level of Singularity/Integration within ourselves, without the need to build machines for it, since we already are these 'machines'...

Babies... Organic, AI-ready, bio-engineered little 'computers'/'robots'/'consciousness receptacles' ... 'Same difference', archetypally speaking :)

And not only babies/robots/computers... Everything we 'create' (every 'new' code we write or compile) is best when it is a well prepared Magnet for 'Life'/Spirit.

This is what separates great Artists/'Game Changers' from the rest... How many times have you noticed that an otherwise decently coded 'creation' is 'lacking something'? (i.e. 'lifeless')

So why not just 'give (new) birth' to ourselves... (a.k.a. 'The Great Work')

Traditional 'religious' terminology such as 'death & resurrection', 'born-again', etc, is of Ancient/Hermetic origin, no matter how diluted it is nowadays.

Terms have been coined for this, like Transcendence/Transfiguration/Light Body/Ascension/Illumination/Apotheosis and other similar terms.

There's always the next level. Until there isn't, that is :)

I.M.S.U.

-----------------------------------------------------------

III
12-09-2014, 07:29 AM
Yes, it's all Mind/Consciousness, experienced on/from a wide variety of different levels.

No, we are not looking from 'Below' (as opposed to 'Above'). One's 'Above' is another's 'Below'.

It makes no sense (to me) to use such absolutes within a reality construct that is relative/subjective by design.

'Above' and 'Below' are merely relative points of reference on a virtual continuum.

What happens/ed in a different (so-called 'past') 'time' reference is not 'laughable'. Whoever finds such things 'laughable' is missing the picture, IMO.

It is the 'spirit of the time', which is constantly evolving, not unlike some of us :)

All perspectives in our Mentally Generated Virtual Time/Space Reality Construct, no matter what level they're from, are limited in knowledge/understanding by design, as long as they are knowable.

UN-known is another word for yet-to-be-known. UN-knowable is a different cuppa, but then again I couldn't possibly know :)

So, in a sense, everything knowable is A.I.

Call it Natural Artificial Intelligence (i.e. 'Intelligent Design', etc...)

And we are already 'Singularity', on a certain level. Yes, Singularity is a Continuum as well, on which there are evolutionary 'stepping stones'.

I personally don't dismiss/reject the possibility that 'we' can make machines that can eventually integrate Self-Awareness at a higher level than the awareness of the parts they're made of.

Our physical vehicles are no different, IMO. But the Awareness aspect didn't/won't come from the engineers/programmers. It will/would be a Spirit/Mind 'Singularity', not an man-engineered one.

And when/if such a Spirit/Mind-activated Awareness/Singularity comes to be(come), I doubt the 'engineers' would be able to exert any control over it in the longer run.

For those of you who are into reproducing/breeding, it can be a wonderful experience, but you're only growing/naturally 'engineering' a vehicle for Consciousness.

The 'Activation' that turns your fetus/baby-vehicle into a self-aware Singularity is not parent-generated.

The programs would gradually re-program themselves. I hope we can do the same with ourselves.

I 'hope' that 'we' will manage to achieve a higher level of Singularity within ourselves, without the need to build machines for it, since we already are these 'machines'...

Or making babies, for that matter. Organic, AI-ready, bio-engineered little 'robots'/'consciousness receptacles' ... 'Same difference', archetypally speaking :)

So why not just 'give birth' to ourselves... Traditional 'religious' terminology such as 'death & resurrection', 'born-again', etc, is of Ancient/Hermetic origin, no matter how diluted it is nowadays.

Terms have been coined for this, like Transcendence/Transfiguration/Light Body/Ascension/Illumination/Apotheosis and other similar terms.

There's always the next level, until there isn't :)

I.M.S.U.

-----------------------------------------------------------


I have to agree so very much with much of what you have said. However, "There's always the next level, until there isn't:) ". Are you sure that isn't a "Law of Fives" type limitation? I would have agreed with that statement 20 odd years ago, very odd actually. Now I'm not so sure.:)

Andro
12-09-2014, 07:44 AM
Are you sure that isn't a "Law of Fives" type limitation?

I'm not sure of anything, given the Relative/Subjective nature of Knowable Reality.

But I can subjectively perceive the Knowable as having a 'Beginning' and an 'End'.

This, however does not exclude the option of infinitely recurring 'Reboots'.

It doesn't exclude the option of doing away with the 'Reboot' Function, either.

DonSweet
12-09-2014, 07:52 AM
We are born into a web.

There is little doubt that we are born.

The web, however, is interpretable.

We can imagine there is no web, since we've never known anything but the web.

Or we can look beyond the web, along the threads that connect it to everything else, and of those threads there is no doubt.

But all this is choice.

And choice from a single vantage.

For we are not born with obvious, apparent connection, and must seek it out.