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thoth
01-04-2014, 04:13 PM
Hi, I would be interested to see if anyone else has tried Hollandus Honey experiment ( as in Manfred Junius book).


I am trying this at the moment.
Using a 5 L flask I filled this 3/4 full of raw unpasteurised honey. I sed a heating mantle

After about week 1 there was an interesting frothy bubbling - pale colour.
For the first two weeks I used a temp between 75-80C. I went closer to 80C as time went on due to very slow distillation
After 3 weeks I collected approx 1 litre of clear water (or air as Hollandus describes).

Unfortunately I increased the temp to 87C for several days and decided there was no more water. When I went to lift the flask out of the heating mantle, the top half just came away:(

It looked like a small amount of the honey had vitrified and adherred to the glass, and when the flask was cooling it contracted at a different rate than the glass and crack.

I am hoping the remaining residue/Earth is not too burnt so I am still proceeding with the next stage.

I soaked the Earth in treble distilled rainwater, and split into 2 :
1) filtered to red liquid, that and then distilled to a tar like stage.
2) filtered to red liquid, and then lowly evaporating in a casserole dish on a hot plate 55C. (was curious to see if I get any crystallisation)


Am continuing with above until I extract all the sol salts from the earth, and will then recombine water from (1) with "tar" etc....

psykopanther
01-12-2014, 03:52 AM
could you link to this book? i have access to honey straight from the source and am curious about what you are trying to do here

green
01-27-2014, 04:12 AM
could you link to this book? i have access to honey straight from the source and am curious about what you are trying to do here

The book is spagyrics by manfred Junius.

Any updates??

thoth
01-27-2014, 11:36 AM
could you link to this book? i have access to honey straight from the source and am curious about what you are trying to do here

Hi
The process is from Hollandus, 1600's

Junius describes it here, and also with his good interpretation.
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Handbook-Plant-Alchemy-Herbalists/dp/0892814853/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390822024&sr=1-2&keywords=manfred+junius

This site also has it here but without Junius's explanation:
http://celestial-alchemy.com/education/archive-of-alchemical-texts/isaac-hollandus/isaac-hollandus-medicinal-recipes/

Do you have plans for equipment ? I used an alembic and let it work at a low temp constantly for several weeks - no need for running water.

psykopanther
01-28-2014, 05:22 AM
i have not gotten anywhere yet. some of my glass ware has broke and waiting on mail for replacement. I will look into this when everything is ready. My stepfather does the whole bee thing.

Axismundi000
01-28-2014, 01:07 PM
does anyone know the planetary or elemental attribution for honey?

I'm guessing either Venus or Sol.

psykopanther
01-28-2014, 05:41 PM
Any one know the herb mentioned in the second link above

Also since honwy is not a fruit or vegetable what is it considered in alchemy? Just a oil? A mineral?

Ghislain
01-28-2014, 07:18 PM
Honey is basically sugar made up of monosaccharide’s fructose and glucose. It contains many
other ingredients depending on the collection point by the bees.

It has anti microbial properties and contains yeast which is dormant due to the sugar concentration,
however honey is hygroscopic and if left open to the air it will absorb water, the sugar concentration
will weaken, the yeast will become active and fermentation will begin. As honey dilutes in the
presence of oxygen it produces Hydrogen Peroxide which is another antiseptic.

Honey does not only come from nectar. Some bees will take the honeydew produced by aphids,
some have been known to lap up spills of antifreeze, which contains Ethylene Glycol, and produce
florescent honey; I don’t think this is edible. :(

A french farmer produced multi coulored honey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzLP6VIjFsc) when his bees were getting their sugar from an M&M factory.

So to label honey by planet or element may be a bit difficult.

Typical honey analysis:

Fructose: 38.2%
Glucose: 31.3%
Maltose: 7.1%
Sucrose: 1.3%
Water: 17.2%
Higher sugars: 1.5%
Ash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_(analytical_chemistry)): 0.2%
Other/undetermined: 3.2%

Ghislain

thoth
01-28-2014, 08:11 PM
My instinct would be to group honey with the Sun, as it is golden and also fiery.

Some bee keepers would keep their hive near a particular crop - almond farmers pay bee keepers to locate their hives nearby to increase crop yield, or they could be somewhere like a sunflower crop, so in that case you might look up the particular plant.

Ghislain
01-28-2014, 08:57 PM
Thoth, do you know if this air you collected contained hydrogen peroxide?

This can be used to dissolve gold mixed with HCl.

Also is your flask sealed or open to the air?

With respect to crystalising, I read that honey won't crystalise if the moisture content is too high
or too low and it crystalizes better if a seed crystal is placed into it.

Ghislain

thoth
01-28-2014, 11:24 PM
Thoth, do you know if this air you collected contained hydrogen peroxide?

This can be used to dissolve gold mixed with HCl.

Also is your flask sealed or open to the air?

With respect to crystalising, I read that honey won't crystalise if the moisture content is too high
or too low and it crystalizes better if a seed crystal is placed into it.

Ghislain


I'm not sure if it is hydrogen peroxide, at least not concentrated anyway. It has a ph about 3.2, but its quite likely to be mixed with water. Hmm I see from wiki it is an antiseptic. I have a skin blister I might try it on. Not sure what further tests I could do
Its not flammable either


I used a closed system with am alembic, but only fully sealed it after a day, so I knew there would be no pressure building up in my receiver flask.

I have gone to the next step now of taking the distilled rainwater soaking the remaining residue in it, filtering that, and now distilling off that water ie extraction of the FIRE (already have the AIR as above)

I might try some experiments with adding a small amount of distilled water to the sol salt part

green
02-17-2014, 07:19 PM
any updates thoth?

thoth
02-20-2014, 12:10 AM
any updates thoth?

Hi Green,

I'm slowly moving along. There are one or two steps I'm not certain of but believe I have extracted the fire salt liquid, now about to distill off the liquid part (Its very oily nearly like engine oil).

Next is the Earth salt, and then later I will combine that with the fire salt and the "air", then cohabitate

Kiorionis
08-20-2014, 01:38 PM
Hey Thoth,


There are one or two steps I'm not certain of but believe I have extracted the fire salt liquid, now about to distill off the liquid part (Its very oily nearly like engine oil).

Curious to know how you'll go about this distillation of the oily, liquid part?

Nibiru
08-20-2014, 11:54 PM
Unfortunately I increased the temp to 87C for several days and decided there was no more water. When I went to lift the flask out of the heating mantle, the top half just came away:(

It looked like a small amount of the honey had vitrified and adherred to the glass, and when the flask was cooling it contracted at a different rate than the glass and crack.


Hello, Thoth :) I've been gone from the scene for quite a while now but have recently been checking out a few things here and there and ran across your thread last night. The strange thing is that I had just earlier in the day been commenting to an alchemist friend on some of my works with honey and mentioned to him that one of my attractions to honey is the possibility that one could potentially 'kill(create) two stones with one bird(bee)' so to speak (plant and animal kingdoms). Anyway the reason I quoted what I have above from your post is because when I was doing my works with honey I experienced the same thing. I was in the final stages of my attempt at producing a 'stone' from honey and had been circulating the 3 essentials for over 24 hours. When I finally removed the heat and attempted to remove my distillation train from my flask it literally pulled in half with very little pressure. I feel that what happened, at least with mine, was not due to temperature fluctuations but rather that I attempted to push my work too far and somehow the energetics involved weakened the glass. At least this is my opinion as to what happened but there's no way for me to be sure. Anyway I've worked with honey quite a bit over the last few years so if you have any questions that you feel I may be able to answer for you, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to respond.

thoth
09-05-2014, 11:26 PM
Hello, Thoth :) I was in the final stages of my attempt at producing a 'stone' from honey and had been circulating the 3 essentials for over 24 hours. When I finally removed the heat and attempted to remove my distillation train from my flask it literally pulled in half with very little pressure.

Anyway I've worked with honey quite a bit over the last few years so if you have any questions that you feel I may be able to answer for you, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to respond.


Hi Nibiru, I would really appreciate any input. I do have a few Q's. I know Kiorionis is also very interested in this.

As mentioned I did start Hollandus experiment with the 12 quarts of honey and my 5 litre flask broke but managed to save the matter.

If I was doing the experiment again, I would not distill the mass down to dryness but would but after getting a decent amount of AIR element (water)
I would then just evaporate the remainder in an open dish - to save my 5 L flask

I do think there are parallels with "The compass of the wise" with this experiment.


Anyway where I am now...... a little bit stuck .....

I do have the AIR element, and think I also have the fire elemet. I am also working on the earth element.

But there was one step in Hollandus which does not make sense to me, which is the near the end of the fire element as in step (9) below.
When I got to this stage the liquid was not clear but was like a thick syrup, so still trying to figure out this bit.
I may just go ahead as described even though it is not clear, but if you have nay ideas



THE AIR ELEMENT
1) Distil 12 quarts of honey. The water that comes over is called AIR.
Save this for later


THE FIRE ELEMENT SALTS
2) The earth of (1) is dried

3) Pour triple distilled rainwater over (2), but do not seal the flask.
Boil this for 3 days & 3 nights, stirring frequently.
Then let it cool

4) Pour off (filter or decant ?) this now coloured water into container "A"

5) Repeat (3) & (4), ie. pouring more rainwater and boiling abd collecting again in A
We are just extracting the soluble salts with rainwater.

6) repeat 3) & (4) again, and keep doing until rainwater no longer colours
(Also keep the faces which is the EARTH ELEMENT)


7) Take the flask "A" with the colored water and distill off the clear liquid and let the flask cool.

8) Pour distilled water from (7), back on dry earth from (7), and put stopper on flask.
(note the alembic is removed)
Boil for 3 days, stirring (Not sure if he means shaking rather than stirring ie. leaving the stopper on)
Then let cool and settle


9) Now pour off (not distill), the "clear" liquid, into a jar "B"
(This is confusing as the liquid will not be clear, so maybe he really means distill off the clear liquid
rather than "pour" off)

10) Pour fresh distilled water (? or is it clear water frpm (7) )on the feces of (9), and boil.
Let everthing settle for 1 day, and again pour off "clear" liquid into jar "B"(? dont think it will be clear)
The feces now left, add them to other feces (the feces of (6) ?)

11) Distill the jar/flask "B" with "clear ?" liquid, until residue is dry

12) Repeat (11), i.e. pour clear liquid of (11) back on dry feces of (11), to exttract reduce the feces
each time. Repeat until all the feces are gone (ie subtlised into the water)


13) Put all the feces together with the previous earth (the earth of (6) and ? of (10) ? )


14) Thus you have the FIRE element
(does he mean the liquid part of 12) ? )

15) After this the element AIR must be distilled over until no feces remain.
( distill the liquid from (1) to leave no earth behind ?)

16) At last, draw the FIRE off from the water and dry it, to get a transparent red massa.
Keep it in a well closed jar
(Is this still (14) i.e. separate the actual water H2o off to get a fiery red salt ?)


EARTH ELEMENT
17) Take all the earth (from (6) and maybe 13 also) and extract the combustilbe oil
Useful for cold weaknesses, but we dont use it for the main work here

18) Now take the earth and calcine gently until white and mix with distilled water and boil for 3 days
Let cool & settle. Then siphon off the clear liquid into jar "C"

19) Repeat twice more pouring of distiled water as in 18 until and add the sol salt/water again to "C"
Discard the ashes

20) Distill the sol salt water of "C" to dryness and let cool.

21) Pour water of 20 back on dry salt of 20, and boil

22) Let it cool, and wait for solids to sink.
Then pour off (not distil) the clear liquid into jar "D"
Add distilled water on the feces, and boil for 4 hrs

23) let cool & settle.
Then pour off the clear liquid and (add to "D" ?)
Discard the feces


24) Now set the jar with the Earth or Salt, back in balneum and draw off the water until dty and proceed as before
(By Earth/Salt, does he mean the liquid of "D" which now contains the soluble subtleised Earth salts
and the contilual distil & cohabitation of the two?)

25) Now extract the water from the Earth and you will find the Earth beautiful and clear
(ie. distill off the water from 24 to get Earth crystal


MARRIAGE OF THE 4 ELEMENTS
26) Put your earth (25) and Fire (16) in a very strong flask and pour your AIR (1) over it
Put in a furnace with a cupel on flask and an alembic with hole on top, so the distilled water can be put back on
(ie without taking off the alembic - not sure what modern alternative there is .....)


27) Draw off the water each time to a "pint" and add by imbibition (ie only drops not a delude) over the matter again
(Does he mean only extract a pint of clear liquid each time, and then start the imbibitions ?)

28) Cohabite the water and distil 10 times.
On the 10th time all 4 elements will come over as one combined substance

29) Although 28 is great medicine for perfection use a pelican and circulate on heat of summer Sun
When the now red oil stays on bottom increase the heat