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Hellin Hermetist
02-15-2014, 03:35 PM
There's an uncanny similarity between the 'device' often associated with 'Chemical Moonshine' and the Image from the 'Aphorisms of Urbigerus' (Circulatum Majus):

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/LunarCollector2_zps2871b06a.jpg http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/UrbigerusOven3_zps23620312.jpg

I can't see any real similarity between those two images. It seems that the one of Urbigerus is a common distillation apparatus used for the distillation of mineral spirits, as the author says at the description of the image. The other image on the other hand (the one of Fleicher) seems that it gives a more complicated form of the famous vase of arcanes, which is used in the most universal path. The path and the use of this strange apparatus has been described with the greatest details in some rare treatises.

Salazius
02-15-2014, 03:49 PM
http://alchimie-pratique.kruptos.com/MESZIMAGES/aigle%208.gif

The process is close to this one in the Urbigerus' image.

Illen A. Cluf
02-15-2014, 04:09 PM
The second diagram seems to portray a very different process, which interests me. Where can the source document be obtained?

Illen A. Cluf
02-15-2014, 04:26 PM
The second diagram seems to portray a very different process, which interests me. Where can the source document be obtained?

Just found it:

https://archive.org/details/aphorismiurbiger00urbi

It's an English verion, but unfortunately, it does not contain that particular plate.

lwowl
02-15-2014, 04:36 PM
I cant see any real similarity between those two images. It seems that the one of Urbigerus is a common distillation apparatus used for the distillation of mineral spirits, as the author says at the description of the image. The other image on the other hand (the one of Fleicher) seems that it gives a more complicated form of the famous vase of arcanes, which is used in the most universal path. The path and the use of this strange apparatus has been described with the greatest details in some rare treatises.

I have a pdf of Aphorismi Ubigerani from 1690 and there is no such image in it. The curious thing about the image is what is the apparatus marked B. It looks like some form of reactor grating. It would be nice to read the text associated with it.

Illen A. Cluf
02-15-2014, 04:42 PM
The curious thing about the image is what is the apparatus marked B. It looks like some form of reactor grating. It would be nice to read the text associated with it.

The description says that "It is a type of retort used to separate mineral spirits". This alone is verification that it does not relate to the "Chemical Moonshine" apparatus.

lwowl
02-15-2014, 07:56 PM
The description says that "It is a type of retort used to separate mineral spirits". This alone is verification that it does not relate to the "Chemical Moonshine" apparatus.

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see any description with the image. The image has letters associated with figures within the image. Nowhere in Ubigerus' Aphorisms is anything written describing that image, nor any reference to the letters assigned to the components in the image. At the end of the text there is a discussion about the symbolism in the front picture of the oak tree etc.

The mystery image is of a furnace running at high heat with a rectangular box next to a receiver floating above the furnace. There must be some text that goes with that picture. But I haven't found it.

Illen A. Cluf
02-15-2014, 08:07 PM
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see any description with the image. The image has letters associated with figures within the image.

See Message #568 (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi&p=33158#post33158) - the descriptions of the components are listed under the picture - in French. I just translated the one item, which somebody asked about.http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/UrbigerusOven_zps0601a8d4.jpg


Nowhere in Ubigerus' Aphorisms is anything written describing that image, nor any reference to the letters assigned to the components in the image.Nor does that image appear anywhere in the English version of the treatise. It's either only in the French version, or it comes from a different treatise altogether. It would be great to know the actual source of that image.


The mystery image is of a furnace running at high heat with a rectangular box next to a receiver floating above the furnace. There must be some text that goes with that picture. But I haven't found it.To avoid repetition, please follow the thread. I already translated what that image was.

lwowl
02-15-2014, 10:27 PM
See Message #568 - the descriptions of the components are listed under the picture - in French. I just translated the one item, which somebody asked about.

OK, thanks.


Nor does that image appear anywhere in the English version of the treatise. It's either only in the French version, or it comes from a different treatise altogether. It would be great to know the actual source of that image.

I don’t think that image has anything to do with Aphorismi Ubigerani. Looks like it’s from an early chymistry book.


To avoid repetition, please follow the thread. I already translated what that image was.

Well, I don’t doubt your translation. Perhaps you might also translate the rest of the descriptions about the figures with the letters A thru K when you have a spare moment. There is something more going on in that picture than separation of industrial mineral spirits. It would be nice to know what the author meant by “mineral spirits,” since that could mean many things depending what hydrocarbon resources you put into the retort. The term “mineral spirits” as used in industry does not seem to be older than 1885-90.

Illen A. Cluf
02-15-2014, 10:51 PM
I don’t think that image has anything to do with Aphorismi Ubigerani. Looks like it’s from an early chymistry book.

That's what I'm beginning to suspect. Androgynus - please let us know the source of your image so we can resolve this.


Well, I don’t doubt your translation. Perhaps you might also translate the rest of the descriptions about the figures with the letters A thru K when you have a spare moment.

French is not my first language, so if anyone can verify/improve this translation, please help us out.

A Particular Furnace Used to Refine and Distill With an Open Fire.

A. Cups for serving in B.
B. A type of retort used to separate mineral spirits.
C. Cupel.
D. Receiver.
E. Chimney.
F. Hole for refining.
G. Hole for distilling.
H. Location of cinders.
I. Location of fire.
K. Fire plate.


It would be nice to know what the author meant by “mineral spirits,” since that could mean many things depending what hydrocarbon resources you put into the retort. The term “mineral spirits” as used in industry does not seem to be older than 1885-90.

Once again, we will need to see the treatise from which the picture came from. I suspect that "mineral spirits" may mean a form of sublimate.

Andro
02-15-2014, 11:21 PM
Androgynus - please let us know the source of your image so we can resolve this.

The source is the R.A.M.S. version of 'Aphorismi Urbigerus'.

I just emailed you the R.A.M.S. PDF so you can see for yourself.

Illen A. Cluf
02-16-2014, 12:01 AM
The source is the R.A.M.S. version of 'Aphorismi Urbigerus'.

I just emailed you the R.A.M.S. PDF so you can see for yourself.

Thank you. The mystery deepens. It's a transcription of the English version, and includes the first picture normally associated with the treatise, but also includes two additional pictures. Did RAMS add these pictures? There is an Addendum at the end of the treatise which interprets the first picture, but no mention is made of the other two pictures. The two pictures do seem to be of the same age as the first, but did they actually come from some other source? Strange.

Illen A. Cluf
02-16-2014, 05:13 PM
Thank you. The mystery deepens. It's a transcription of the English version, and includes the first picture normally associated with the treatise, but also includes two additional pictures. Did RAMS add these pictures? There is an Addendum at the end of the treatise which interprets the first picture, but no mention is made of the other two pictures. The two pictures do seem to be of the same age as the first, but did they actually come from some other source? Strange.

Well, I did some research and found the source of the pictures. It's in a German language version of five collected treatises entitled Besondere Chymische Schrifften, 1705, There are nine beautiful full plates in this volume as well as one half-page plate. All these plates are much more detailed than the ones circulating. The one plate normally associated with Urbigerus' treatise is included in that section of the collected works. All the others belong to the four other treatises in that volume. You can find it here:

http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/51899//0/cache.off

I don't speak any German, so one thing I was not able to determine, was whether all the five treatises in that volume were written by Urbigerus, or whether four of them were anonymous. If anyone here knows some German, could they please check the volume - especially the main title and table of contents, to see if these work were all written by Urbigerus? Thank you.

There is also a link that provides all of the 10 plates included in that volume together, although these are not as clear as the ones in the link I provided. See:

http://www.piroalquimista.com.br/Urbigerus.htm

Here, they are all attributed to Urbigerus, although I'm not sure that they were. It all depends on whether he wrote those other four treatises.

One of those four treatises includes the picture of the furnace, along with another picture of a furnace. It might be interesting if anyone who speaks German could read that particular treatise and provide the forum with a summary, especially of what the furnace is actually being used for.

lwowl
02-16-2014, 06:54 PM
Well, I did some research and found the source of the pictures. It's in a German language version of five collected treatises entitled Besondere Chymische Schrifften, 1705, There are nine beautiful full plates in this volume as well as one half-page plate. All these plates are much more detailed than the ones circulating. The one plate normally associated with Urbigerus' treatise is included in that section of the collected works. All the others belong to the four other treatises in that volume. You can find it here:

http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/51899//0/cache.off

I don't speak any German, so one thing I was not able to determine, was whether all the five treatises in that volume were written by Urbigerus, or whether four of them were anonymous. If anyone here knows some German, could they please check the volume - especially the main title and table of contents, to see if these work were all written by Urbigerus? Thank you.

There is also a link that provides all of the 10 plates included in that volume together, although these are not as clear as the ones in the link I provided. See:

http://www.piroalquimista.com.br/Urbigerus.htm

Here, they are all attributed to Urbigerus, although I'm not sure that they were. It all depends on whether he wrote those other four treatises.

One of those four treatises includes the picture of the furnace, along with another picture of a furnace. It might be interesting if anyone who speaks German could read that particular treatise and provide the forum with a summary, especially of what the furnace is actually being used for.

Thanks for the translation of the items in the furnace illustration. The system looks like it is intended for destructive distillation. I'm still trying to figure it out.

The links you found to the Ubigerus texts provide very intriguing information I did not know about. I didn't know any other manuscripts by Ubigerus existed (If indeed they are by him.) Still, the figures provide much food for thought. I don't know German either and would sure like to be able to read those manuscripts.

Illen A. Cluf
02-16-2014, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the translation of the items in the furnace illustration. The system looks like it is intended for destructive distillation. I'm still trying to figure it out.

The links you found to the Ubigerus texts provide very intriguing information I did not know about. I didn't know any other manuscripts by Ubigerus existed (If indeed they are by him.) Still, the figures provide much food for thought. I don't know German either and would sure like to be able to read those manuscripts.

I agree that the apparatus looks like it was intended for destructive distillation. I'm extremely curious about the treatise in the Besondere Chymische Schrifften volume that discusses the furnace. The picture of the furnace comes after a treatise with a title something like "Berzeichnis. Bon vieterhand secreten welche fehr wahl werden zu statten kommen denen. Die profession von der medicin und chirurgie machen."

Andro
02-16-2014, 08:01 PM
The linked German text appears to be very much (if not entirely) the same as all the texts/PDFs contained in the 'Urbigerus' folder in the RAMS collection (in English), with the possible exception that the German book doesn't include the actual Urbigerus Aphorisms.

I've only compared a few random non-Urbigerus chapters (not all of them), and so far they are the same.

So you basically could have the entire original German text already translated into English in the 'Urbigerus' folder in the R.A.M.S. collection.

Note: Even if those various texts/chapters are all in the same 'Urbigerus' R.A.M.S. folder, different authors are mentioned for some of the sections.

Illen, I'll email you the other PDF's in that folder so you can see the English versions and draw your conclusions. I tend to think it's basically the same material, more or less... Or at least very similar...

Illen A. Cluf
02-16-2014, 08:34 PM
Hi Androgynus,

That's good news that the other treatises are translated by RAMS.

The Alphorisms are also included but are actually towards the end of the volume. Using the PDF page numbers, the Alphorisms start on Page 144 and the Circulatum Minus starts on Page 177.

Andro
02-16-2014, 08:53 PM
I don't know German either and would sure like to be able to read those manuscripts.

I've made the English version of those texts downloadable HERE (http://we.tl/xm3K5O08pC) - for those interested.

Link only valid until February 22 !

Illen A. Cluf
02-17-2014, 02:56 AM
The RAMS version of Chymische Schrifften is an English translation of most of the Urbigerus related material. Here is the Table of Contents:

APHORISMI URBIGERUS
Baron Urbigerus
With Annotations and Explications by Dr. Sigismond Bacstrom, 1880

Translated by Leone Muller, 1984
From the Collection of Julius Kohn

Produced by R.A.M.S. 1982

TABLE OF CONTENTS

THE FIRST PART
One hundred reliable rules or brief aphorisms for preparing, in three ways, the great ELIXIR PHILOSOPHORUM (Being the Circulatum Majore). Annotated with explications by Dr. Sigismond Bacstrom.

THE SECOND PART
The Circulatum Minore.

THE THIRD PART
One hundred thirty eight, aphorisms through mystery of the Hermetic Philosophy and the Art and Nature are plainly described.

THE FOURTH PART
SPECIAL CHYMICAL SCRIPTURES
Shows how to prepare, philosophically, the Medicina Universalis, with which to cure all metals and ills.

THE FIFTH PART
A brief outline of the whole Philosophica Particulari Demonstivia; which shows various ways of improving every metal via particularia.

THE SIXTH PART
About the virtues/qualities and properties of Antimony and how to prepare from it Aurum potabile by the dry and humid methods.

THE SEVENTH PART
List of many secrets which will be of great use to those who have made medicine or surgery their profession.

THE EIGHTH PART
An Epistle by Antonio Abbatia, the High Priest of the transmutation of metals.

THE NINTH PART
The Writings of Tricinensis (Johann Tenzen).

The Chymische Schrifften volume does not seem to contain Parts 3, 8, and 9. Chymische Schrifften also starts with Part 4, continues in order to Part 7, and then goes back to Part 1 and 2. It also contains several other treatises not included in the RAMS version. The two pictures of the furnace in Chymische Schrifften that were mentioned earlier, seem to stand alone, along with a couple of pages which translate the apparatus labels that were in French, to German.

The entire text looks quite interesting, and part of the RAMS version includes important annotations by Sigismond Bacstrom, who was a prolific collector and translator of alchemical documents, which were well used by Rosicrucian orders.

Illen

lwowl
02-17-2014, 06:41 AM
The two pictures of the furnace in Chymische Schrifften that were mentioned earlier, seem to stand alone, along with a couple of pages which translate the apparatus labels that were in French, to German.

Illen

It looks like the document text has nothing to do with the illustrations. There must be some French treatise that the illustrations were cobbled from. The French text associated with the first furnace illustration seems to say, "Furnace for the work of Philosophical Operations." If that holds true for the second illustration then the "mineral spirits" must be Philosophical; not common mineral "turpentine," an industrial petroleum based solvent used nowadays.

Illen A. Cluf
02-17-2014, 01:26 PM
It looks like the document text has nothing to do with the illustrations. There must be some French treatise that the illustrations were cobbled from.

I searched for the word "furnace" in all the English translations in the RAMS version, and although "furnace" was mentioned quite a few times, none of them described the furnace. I have yet to search for the phrase "mineral spirits".

JDP
02-17-2014, 02:36 PM
THE EIGHTH PART
An Epistle by Antonio Abbatia, the High Priest of the transmutation of metals.

THE NINTH PART
The Writings of Tricinensis (Johann Tenzen).

The Chymische Schrifften volume does not seem to contain Parts 3, 8, and 9.

Yes, these two texts were taken from another book, namely this one:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WWM6AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=ABBATIA+(Antonius+de&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CRwCU6a2JZOgkQfTvoDQAQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=ABBATIA%20(Antonius%20de&f=false

By the way, Abbatia's original Latin text consists of two epistles, the first one of which was not translated into German (and thus did not make it to this English translation either), as was noticed by Ferguson:

https://archive.org/stream/bibliothecachemi01glasuoft#page/n31/mode/2up

Which is unfortunate since it looks interesting. There seems to be a discussion in it about "aqua fortises" (mineral acids) and whether they are of value or not in operations regarding transmutation, a seemingly never-ending debate among alchemists, "puffers", "multipliers", chymists, etc. ever since mineral acids became more widely known during the 14th century.

Illen A. Cluf
02-17-2014, 03:39 PM
Thank you for finding that source, JDP (interesting also that Antonio Abbatia is associated with Edward Kelly in that volume). Thus, at least two of the treatises do not belong to Urbigerus. I also searched all the RAMS texts for the words "mineral" and "spirit", and again, none of the texts seem to address "mineral spirits". That, and the fact that the pictures are in French, seem to indicate that the pictures came from a different source. The pictures also stand alone, between two treatises, along with a German translation of the parts of the furnace.

Here is a rough translation, from French, of the parts of the furnace in the first picture:

Philosophical furnace for all operations

A. towers
B. large and small plug
C. vault
D. Furnace doors to retain heat
E. the flask
F. sand
G. grids
H. Plates with holes to adjust fire
I. Holes for fire and cindres
K. The places where we put the fire to cook and digest metals

Thus one of the pictures mentions "philosophical furnace" (but using metallic substances),and the other mentions "mineral spirits", so I'm wondering if the pictures may have come from a French edition of Glauber's work.

Illen A. Cluf
02-17-2014, 07:35 PM
The following contains a picture of a furnace that is similar to the one under discussion. It's also labelled a "Philosophical furnace" and comes from Glauber's "Fourneaux Philosophiques" (Philosophical Furnaces), 1659.

http://histoires-de-sciences.over-blog.fr/2013/11/johann-rudolf-glauber-1604-1670-l%E2%80%99alchimiste-l%E2%80%99athanor-et-les-acides.html

Illen A. Cluf
02-18-2014, 12:14 AM
It's quite difficult to find any information about Baro Urbigerus. Although his treatise uses symbolic alchemical language, it does appear to be a little more open than most. Apparently, the picture which accompanies his treatise (appears as though there was only one), which shows people standing around a tree with their feet in the water, is the key that cracks open the understanding of the symbolism in his treatise.

For a very interesting and informative overview of Urbigerus and an explanation of this picture, as well as other information about his work, please listen to the short (less than 15 minutes) and, synchronisitically, very recent, discussion here:

Baru Urbigerus Podcast (http://historyofalchemy.com/podcast/episode-38-baru-urbigerus/)

Illen

thoth
02-18-2014, 01:03 AM
It's quite difficult to find any information about Baro Urbigerus. Although his treatise uses symbolic alchemical language, it does appear to be a little more open than most. Apparently, the picture which accompanies his treatise (appears as though there was only one), which shows people standing around a tree with their feet in the water, is the key that cracks open the understanding of the symbolism in his treatise.

Illen

Junius gives a generous description of that plate, with people in a liquid. When you look carefully there is a hole in the tree from which sap eminates, ie that is one of the ingredients of the circulatum

Illen A. Cluf
02-18-2014, 01:29 AM
Junius gives a generous description of that plate, with people in a liquid. When you look carefully there is a hole in the tree from which sap eminates, ie that is one of the ingredients of the circulatum

Hi Thoth,

Thank you. I see that the description starts on page 168 and continues on to page 182. Quite a lengthy discussion which I look forward to reading.

thoth
02-18-2014, 10:18 PM
Yes, Junius describes making the circulatum himself - Nice to see a modern author describe these things.

I recently got some Canadian balsam and plan to have a go at this soon

Illen A. Cluf
02-19-2014, 01:56 AM
Yes, Junius describes making the circulatum himself - Nice to see a modern author describe these things.

I recently got some Canadian balsam and plan to have a go at this soon

Are you planning to follow Junius' approach closely?

thoth
02-20-2014, 12:16 AM
Are you planning to follow Junius' approach closely?

Yes I would hope to follow his description closely but I have still to understand all the details.

I am doing another one of his processes on the honey stone. If this works out well it will give me confidence to focus on the circulatum.

(See http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3845-Hollandus-Honey-Experiment/page2)

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2014, 02:19 AM
Yes I would hope to follow his description closely but I have still to understand all the details.


If you have Robert Bartlett's book "Real Alchemy", he provides an interpretation of Urbigerus' Circulatum Minus procedure at the end of Chapter 6 (starting page 65). It's a great summary and easy to follow. I just found that tonight. You might find it online in Google Books, if you don't have the book. Try:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=WWyAd9HqCQ8C&pg=PT58&lpg=PT58&dq=circulatum+minus+bartlett&source=bl&ots=lO0moF7_Vr&sig=SxpqZOQ5FubYQzjdtBMY7oRAqWQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T2cFU-eqG8a6yQGrh4CgDg&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=circulatum%20minus%20bartlett&f=false

boever
02-20-2014, 07:24 AM
Hey,

I happen do be doing some research on the Circulatum Minus as well. Here are the sources I have found so far :

Sources
- Ogvily, The Alchemist's Kitchen. Has a very small chapter on the Circulatum Minus.
- Junius, The practical handbook on plant alchemy. Ch. THE CIRCULATUM MINUS OF URBIGERUS
- Cottnoir, Weiser's concise guide to alchemy
- Barlett, Real Alchemy: A primer in practical alchemy
- Dubuis, Spagyrics, Vol. 1 Ch. 22,23, Vol. 2 Ch. 48. This holds a very interesting commentary by Frater Albertus
- Mineral Alchemy by Jean Dubuis. Vol. 1 Ch. 1,9
- Labyrinthdesigners on Baro Urbigerus (http://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/hermetic-pictures/baro-urbigerus-the-circulatum-tree/)

I am also still working on understanding the process. Good luck thoth!

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2014, 11:55 AM
Hey,

I happen do be doing some resource on the Circulatum Minus as well. Here are the sources I have found so far :



Thanks for those sources, boever.

lwowl
02-20-2014, 04:31 PM
It's quite difficult to find any information about Baro Urbigerus. Although his treatise uses symbolic alchemical language, it does appear to be a little more open than most. Apparently, the picture which accompanies his treatise (appears as though there was only one), which shows people standing around a tree with their feet in the water, is the key that cracks open the understanding of the symbolism in his treatise.

For a very interesting and informative overview of Urbigerus and an explanation of this picture, as well as other information about his work, please listen to the short (less than 15 minutes) and, synchronisitically, very recent, discussion here: Baru Urbigerus Podcast (http://historyofalchemy.com/podcast/episode-38-baru-urbigerus/)

Illen

Urbigerus is not as open as one would think. The key is to know what he means by the Tears of Diana. The best info in the podcast is to study his description of the symbols in the illustration. So, is the illustration about the Circulatum Majus or Circulatum Minor, or both?

Andro
02-20-2014, 04:55 PM
Urbigerus is not as open as one would think. The key is to know what he means by the Tears of Diana.

In the Circulatum Minus, he only mentions the 'Tears of Diana' in the First Way (out of three), which is 'the most secret way of the Philosophers'.

In the first and most secret way of the Philosophers, 'Diana's undetermined tears' most likely refer to the Universal Spirit/Astral Spirit/Lunar Humidity/etc...

thoth
02-20-2014, 10:01 PM
Illen & Boever,

Thanks for the references. I will look them all up before trying the process. The Canadian balsam was not the cheapest so would hope to get it right first time.

I can imagine all right some of the detail was left out by Urbigerus. There might be a sublimation of the volatile salts required.
(Maybe the three ways are referring to kingdoms)

Illen A. Cluf
02-20-2014, 10:19 PM
In the Circulatum Minus, he only mentions the 'Tears of Diana' in the First Way (out of three), which is 'the most secret way of the Philosophers'.

In the first and most secret way of the Philosophers, 'Diana's undetermined tears' most likely refer to the Universal Spirit/Astral Spirit/Lunar Humidity/etc...

There seems little doubt that it represents the Philosophical Mercury. In plant work, that is most often considered to be alcohol (spirit of wine). But the real identity of the philosophical spirit of wine, even in plant work, is likely to be much more deep than that, and is one of the main issues of discussion on alchemy forums. The Astral Spirit is certainly a possibility, but it again begs the question" what is it, actually? It is a mystical unknown.

The other possibility is that it is something much more "chemical" in Nature, philosophically related to alcohol, but a product which has "changed" its normal behavior/form through the alchemical process, in a way that has not yet been properly discovered, observed or recognized by modern chemists.

lwowl
02-21-2014, 12:48 AM
In the Circulatum Minus, he only mentions the 'Tears of Diana' in the First Way (out of three), which is 'the most secret way of the Philosophers'.

In the first and most secret way of the Philosophers, 'Diana's undetermined tears' most likely refer to the Universal Spirit/Astral Spirit/Lunar Humidity/etc...

The text says, "Out of Diana's undetermined tears when Apollo has appeared, after the separation of the three elements...without the addition of any other created thing..."

I think the answer might be found in the Myth of the goddess Diana. She was a forest goddess protector of trees. Apollo appears in the springtime:)

Illen A. Cluf
02-21-2014, 02:54 AM
The text says, "Out of Diana's undetermined tears when Apollo has appeared, after the separation of the three elements...without the addition of any other created thing..."

I think the answer might be found in the Myth of the goddess Diana. She was a forest goddess protector of trees. Apollo appears in the springtime:)

Orion

"Orion was the son of Neptune. He was a handsome giant and a mighty hunter. His father gave him the power of wading through the depths of the sea, or, as others say, of walking on its surface.

Orion loved Merope, the daughter of Oenopion, king of Chios, and sought her in marriage. He cleared the island of wild beasts, and brought the spoils of the chase as presents to his beloved; but as Oenopion constantly deferred his consent, Orion attempted to gain possession of the maiden by violence. Her father, incensed at this conduct, having made Orion drunk, deprived him of his sight and cast him out on the seashore. The blinded hero followed the sound of a Cyclops' hammer till he reached Lemnos, and came to the forge of Vulcan, who, taking pity on him, gave him Kedalion, one of his men, to be his guide to the abode of the sun. Placing Kedalion on his shoulders, Orion proceeded to the east, and there meeting the sun-god, was restored to sight by his beam.

After this he dwelt as a hunter with Diana, with whom he was a favorite, and it is even said she was about to marry him. Her brother was highly displeased and often chid her, but to no purpose. One day, observing Orion wading through the sea with his head just above the water, Apollo pointed it out to his sister and maintained that she could not hit that black thing on the sea. The archer-goddess discharged a shaft with fatal aim. The waves rolled the dead body of Orion to the land, and bewailing her fatal error with many tears, Diana placed him among the stars, where he appears as a giant, with a girdle, sword, lion's skin, and club. Sirius, his dog, follows him, and the Pleiads fly before him."

Source:
http://www.classicreader.com/book/2823/28/

The tears are clear as water, and drip from the distillation set-up into the receiver. This is one of the descriptions of the Philosophic Mercury.

boever
02-21-2014, 07:37 AM
Urbigerus suggests 3 ways to make the Circulatum Minus. Junius focusses on the first and the third. The only difference between the first and the third one is that in the first you extract all the principles from 1 single plant. In the third one you go and buy some ready made principles from a chemist. Since they are not "philisophically" prepared you need to add the balsam.


From all that has been said, the first way is now also easily understandable,
as everything has simply to be prepared from the same plant
species from which the resinous matter comes; for instance, you could
make a Circulatum Minus from the North American Abies balsamea.
The resinous matter can be extracted from small branches by steam
distillation. In this way natural turpentines are obtained. The remaining
operations are then carried out according to the methods already
described.

Now, on the discussion about the nature of Diana's Undetermined tears, look no further..

The “Tears of Diana” are the pure Mercury, the ethyl alcohol not yet
specified by any kind of additives. Later it is determined by the addition
of the Salts and essential oils.

Andro
02-21-2014, 07:55 AM
Now, on the discussion about the nature of Diana's Undetermined tears, look no further..


The “Tears of Diana” are the pure Mercury, the ethyl alcohol not yet
specified by any kind of additives. Later it is determined by the addition
of the Salts and essential oils.


This is only the interpretation of Junius. Not a part of the original Aphorisms. I do recommend looking further :)

And BTW, ethyl alcohol is not 'undetermined'. It is already chemically defined.


The text says, "Out of Diana's undetermined tears when Apollo has appeared, after the separation of the three elements...without the addition of any other created thing..."
I think the answer might be found in the Myth of the goddess Diana. She was a forest goddess protector of trees. Apollo appears in the springtime:)

Diana is also the Moon Goddess (i.e. 'Luna') and Apollo is the Sun God (i.e. 'Sol').

In this context, I regard the 'Tears of Diana' as the Universal (i.e. undetermined) Spirit/Water/Lunar Humidity, and Apollo as the Solar aspect, which can only 'appear' after the Lunar one is present.
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IMSU (In My Subjective Understanding)

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