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ChiNamo
02-18-2014, 02:44 PM
If I am wrong then the magic recipes would already be publicly known. Such a secret would never be possible to keep fully in the dark.


This would be certainly correct if we could ignore the existence of powerful forces, who’s very existence and rule over the population depends on denying things like the Philosopher’s Stone from the public. Underestimating the power and intelligence of the enemy has led to many lost battles.

The free energy research is a science, and the results don’t depend on the experimenter’s or the user’s spiritual development. I know that such devices do exist, as well as the knowledge (recipe) how to build them. Despite this fact the true knowledge about how they work and how to build them are not publicly known. There are countless websites discussing this subject, but none of them provides the real blueprint. The largest- most popular ones are under the direct coordination of the energy cartel. They have to keep the genie in the bottle for all cost, no matter how many people need to be eliminated, intimidated and bought, or how much will all this cost. They have got all the wealth in the world, they can afford it.

Ghislain
02-18-2014, 09:23 PM
Underestimating the power and intelligence of the enemy has led to many lost battles.Underestimating the power and intelligence of the self has led to more lost battles. IMO


The free energy research is a science, and the results don’t depend on the experimenter’s or the user’s spiritual development. Is spiritual development not a science? Can one be sure that the answers to free energy won't come from spiritual development?


"They"* have to keep the genie in the bottle for all cost, no matter how many people need to be eliminated, intimidated and bought, or how much will all this cost. IMO we give "They" too much credit.

If "I" were to discover a free energy source there would not be enough "Theys" to stop me telling the world; and physically demonstrating it.

I would not do this alone I would do it in an synchronized way with others around the world...it would be too important to be stopped; it would have to be sent viral.

So forgive me if I am just a little skeptical...show me!

Below is a schematic for a water driven engine. Click on the pic to go to the site:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/water-fuel-fig2_zpse926c3b7.gif (http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=927)

If that worked I would be building and selling them and I have a good job already, think about the millions of people out of work, do you not think they may give it a go?

We don't seem to have a lot of faith in human nature and give soooo much credit to the invisible "They"; "They" are not that powerful, it is "us" that empower "Them" in "our" own complacency.

Who are the They's, Us's, Them's, We's, Those's...isn't it about time "we" gave "them" a name?

Ghislain <- guilty of complacency...

*If "They" exist then let's expose "They" for who "They" are. They seem to be the instigators of much hardship in people's lives'; or are "They" just "us" in another time and another place?

Andro
02-18-2014, 10:06 PM
IMO we give "They" too much credit.

One Republic - 'Counting Stars': "I don't think the world is sold, we're just doing what we're told"


If "I" were to discover a free energy source there would not be enough "Theys" to stop me telling the world.

It only takes one :)


We don't seem to have a lot of faith in human nature and give soooo much credit to the invisible "They"; "They" are not that powerful, it is "us" that empower "Them" in "our" own complacency.

The less complacency I'll see, the more faith I'll have in human nature.


Ghislain <- guilty of complacency...

Ahem...


Who are the They's... [...] isn't it about time "we" gave "them" a name?

Here's a name: The Non-Complacent Ones (working title :))... Or 'Those Who Realized How Easy It Is For A Few To Control The Many Complacent Ones'...

However, IMO:

It only takes for the so called 'armed forces' to stop following their orders and quit their jobs.

Stop ALL initiation of violence, especially statist/corporatist.

Really, that's all it takes for all to reclaim responsibility and self-reliance.

I'd like to see the day and hope humanity doesn't fail miserably and proves once more it prefers to be ruled and remain complacent.

ChiNamo
02-19-2014, 07:05 PM
Ghislain, I am glad to see that such enthusiasm and optimism still exists today. Thirty years ago I have been thinking in similar way, so I see my younger self responding back from your post. If I would have known things at that time that I do now, things would have gone much better for me than as they did. But I guess everybody could say the same thing at a certain point in his life.

Androgynus has given such an excellent and humorous reply that I hesitate whether I should add anything or just leave it as it is. But since you are attempting to provoke some response from me regarding free energy, here is my take on your points.



Underestimating the power and intelligence of the self has led to more lost battles.

Yes, I agree with this statement. But it is a faulty logic to conclude, that correctly estimating (or even overestimating) one’s own individual power and intelligence is sufficient for victory, and the proper estimation of the enemy’s power is not necessary.


Is spiritual development not a science?

It is a matter of perspective and time frame.
First it depends on what would someone consider to be a “spiritual development”.
Then whether or not that can be ever established as a science (in its true meaning) or not. Some of the criteria would be:
The science supposed to contain the knowledge of the laws governing spiritual development.
It supposed to have “mathematical” tools to calculate and exactly predict the progress and end result of cause – consequence processes in spirituality.
The processes and experiments should be repeatable by any spirit (individual consciousness) using the same parameters and lead to the same end result, which is exactly predictable by the methods of the science. Etc.

Some religions (like Tibetan Buddhism) consider themselves to be such spiritual science, to more or less degree. We don’t have absolute science today about anything; meaning: we don’t have the perfect, complete body of knowledge about any subject. Not even mathematics, which is by the way the most accurate and reliable amongst them all. Our imperfect science is under constant development and expansion. What was considered to be magic in the Stone Age is a trivial scientific fact (or phenomena) today. The cavemen have had also their primitive version of science at the time, even though their concepts may look total rubbish and superstition today. Therefore it also depends on the time frame. What we accept as science today may be only a faulty and primitive approximation 1000 years in the future.

Therefore it is not possible to objectively decide when can we start considering a collection of spiritual exercises and description of laws to be sufficiently accurate to deserve the title of “science”. We can go a bit deeper into this subject later on in another thread, if anybody is interested


Can one be sure that the answers to free energy won't come from spiritual development?

If you reach the goal of spiritual development you will not need any free energy device anymore, you will become the conscious energy itself. This is one of the reasons that the great holy masters never bothered about inventing gadgets to make earthly life more convenient. It is only fools like me who find satisfaction in such futile endeavors. ;) At the same time even the most evil being in the universe may be able to invent and build free energy machines if he possesses sufficient and accurate relevant knowledge and intelligence.



If "I" were to discover a free energy source there would not be enough "Theys" to stop me telling the world; and physically demonstrating it.
I would not do this alone I would do it in an synchronized way with others around the world...it would be too important to be stopped; it would have to be sent viral.
So forgive me if I am just a little sceptical...show me!


You are forgiven for being sceptical Ghislain. :D This is a kind of “I dare you to show me … otherwise you lose the argument and I am right.” If its about this, then you can have your “argument victory”, you may assume that it is not possible to make a free energy device and nobody ever did. You may also assume that Nikola Tesla was a crackpot, and did not die exactly for this very reason. You may also assume that the US dollar is backed by gold and it is wise to store your savings in such banknotes in a bank... ;)

It is heart warming to see your enthusiasm and willingness for self sacrifice, but you are not the first one who felt this way. But when these fellows started to act upon it, they disappeared without a trace. Or started their world saving mission and then retraced their steps when they hit the impenetrable wall. Are you ready to sacrifice your family’s life in your attempt to make a tiny dent on the present global mafia system?

I am also a little skeptical about this. Here is my “dare you…” in return: if you manage to put together a bullet-proof strategy about how to defeat and eliminate the present world rulers who keep the population in virtual slavery, then I will show you how it is possible to make free energy machines. Or, if you design a bullet-proof strategy about how to teach the science of free energy devices to the majority of the population, how to manage its production and selling… and still stay alive, then I will accept your challenge. ;)


Below is a schematic for a water driven engine.

Did I mention earlier that you will not find any real free energy device plans in public domain? These are mainly the products of the disinformation agencies, and sometimes of “useful idiots” (as they call those who publish nonsense, but don’t mean to deceive.)


Who are the They's, ... isn't it about time "we" gave "them" a name?

They are the members of a global mafia, who extort as much wealth from the masses as possible (taxes, inflation, toll, penalties, insurances, underpayment of salaries etc.) in order to strengthen their power and weaken their subjects. As their wealth and power increases they manage to extort more and more wealth from us, until they will own everybody completely like a piece of tool or asset. Their most amazing and greatest achievement is to get to this level of oppression and power, while still keeping the vast majority of the population in complete oblivion about what is really going on around them. It is an all embracing octopus, and you can meat their tentacles everywhere in society, starting from the banks, governments, corporations, healthcare, religious institutions, armies… if it matters (even a tiny bit in the big picture) you can bet they control it.

Ghislain
02-20-2014, 12:51 AM
ChiNamo

Reading your post I can see how you may have seen my post as a challenge, but it was not meant personally.

It was meant as a blanket statement to all...I am as guilty as the next person for looking into conspiracy theories,
but the truth is that "they" are just "us". I don't deny there are some manipulative people out there and some with
less moral virtue than others...the things people do never cease to amaze me, but they exist in all walks of life.

There are those who extort as much wealth from the masses as possible (taxes, inflation, toll, penalties, insurances,
underpayment of salaries etc.) in order to strengthen their power and weaken their subjects, but that, today in our
monetarist society, is called business, unfortunately; if your business is bigger you can hit harder.

I think it safe to say that I agree with almost all you say, however I think we are looking at it all through a differing perspective.

You hear a lot of people say, "I am just one person, what difference can I make"; that is where the fault lies and I can count myself
among those that have said it, but that has to change...most people are aware of what is right and what is wrong in society and it is
the duty of each and every one of us to say here is where the wrong stops, instead of blaming it on an invisible race of ubermench
who are controlling us; "they" are doing what "we" would do in their position if the masses let us.

The difficulty lies in the need for us all to stop together, for if we don't then I can only liken it to the traffic on a motorway...you can't
have just a few stop or you get a major pile up; the same way, taking into account human nature, if a few do what's right the others will
abuse this; it's what we do and so the right rewards the wrong.

There are sets and subsets in society and probably always will be, I think if you are not happy in a particular subset then move up a set
rather than bringing the set down to you. Trying to move a whole set in either direction IMO is wrong; perhaps working to bring harmony
between the sets would be a better way to go.

I could post a picture of a machine here and now, anyone seeing it could copy it, no one would know if it was genius or bullshit until it is
checked out. The point is it would be out there...how many arms does this octopus have?

Logic tells me that if there is free energy we would have it or the knowledge of it right now.

But then perhaps I'm just naïve.

Ghislain <- forever in search of Utopia.

ChiNamo
02-20-2014, 04:33 PM
There are sets and subsets in society and probably always will be, I think if you are not happy in a particular subset then move up a set rather than bringing the set down to you.

You know very well that it is not possible for everybody (or even for the majority) to become the elite of the world, because then that class of society would lose its meaning. The elite rulers can not exist without their servants. Moving up a class in society would not solve any problem (especially if everybody would do that. Who is going to stay at the bottom?). Even if I would move up to the class of the elite and the rest of humanity would continue to suffer, we would not have accomplished any significant and permanent positive change.

As long as people are satisfied in any class on this earth and consider the state of their existence completely “normal”, (meaning that it is as it should be) they are the victims of a cosmic deception. They will live their pathetic lives in complete ignorance about who they really are, and what kind of existence is really normal, as it supposed be. When they die, they will be recycled to another body over and over again until they wake up from the illusion of “everything is fine, this is the nature of the world, we can’t do anything about that, we have to accept it, and I am satisfied with it. If anybody dares to complain he is a weirdo… hey people come on, let’s stone this rebel prick!” The most amazing achievement of this planetary prison system is keeping the people in such hypnotic sleep, and under the spell of illusion that they are awake and happy.



I could post a picture of a machine here and now, anyone seeing it could copy it, no one would know if it was genius or bullshit until it is checked out. The point is it would be out there...how many arms does this octopus have?

General Ghislain, is this your bullet proof strategy of saving the world? Just think a bit deeper and you will realize that this is not even a strategy. It is like ordering a soldier to pick up an axe, attack the one million strong fully armed enemy, and win the battle.



Logic tells me that if there is free energy we would have it or the knowledge of it right now.


This is faulty logic. You are ignoring many essential facts and parameters. It is like saying 1+1+X=2, when the value of X=1000. It would be correct if X would be 0, but it is not.



But then perhaps I'm just naïve.
Ghislain <- forever in search of Utopia.

If you think that by merely acknowledging to be naïve and complacent will save you from its negative consequences, or perhaps even make it to be a praiseworthy attitude, then you are deluding yourself. I appreciate your search for Utopia, but to find it you will need to collect more true knowledge about the state of the world, and a bit more scrupulous logic.
I hope you don’t take any of this personally, because I don’t mean it like that. If I have said something that I should have kept to myself, let me know, and I will do so in future to keep good friendship. Thanks for your comments; this way we can cast some light on things that may benefit others as well.

III
02-20-2014, 09:39 PM
Hidden knowledge and the global elite -


For the past 50 years or so I have wondered about these things. So is anything needed beyond greed, arrogance and stupidity? Conspiracy, beyond that of greed and arrogance, is hardly needed. People believe in many things that are not so and will never be so. On the other hand there are lots of things that are no so yet but could become so. The trick is in knowing which is which. I don't know. The only people I met in the insurance business were hard workers keeping the system running.


And in all this comes up the question, "What is life for, what is it all about?" Is it to be rich and spending your life taking care of money? Is that how anybody here wants to spend their life? Would I like an extra $100k a year. Sure, it could improve things. Would 100x that much make any real difference? Not really. There is nothing at all that I want that requires that kind of money. Could I make life easier is some ways for some people? Sure. However, money just changes how a person has to learn their lessons on this earth.

Krisztian
02-20-2014, 09:44 PM
. . . forever in search of Utopia.

With the current level of spiritual awareness, "Utopia" for humanity would likely evolve to another form of the lazy Communist party.

For me, 'mastery of self' is utopia. But it is likely different for others.


. . . You know very well that it is not possible for everybody (or even for the majority) to become the elite of the world, because then that class of society would lose its meaning. The elite rulers can not exist without their servants. . .

I am of the conviction that those that pull that hidden hand, call it "Elite", are spiritually obligated to carry out this task in order to move on from their own 'debt'. They have to do it to advance from this realm. It's no thing personal. So the more one makes it personal, the more one is 'caught in the net'.

By the way, I'm in no disagreement with either of what you gentlemen posted.

Awani
02-20-2014, 10:01 PM
My two cents on this issue is as follows...

The more energy, thought and time we spend on worrying/thinking/stopping the global elite the more power they get.

They are not important, they have no power... they are babies before the universe. If we all notice these facts they will automatically loose any power they have, because the only power they DO have is the fact that WE believe in them.

The only hidden knowledge is within. No one out there is holding it for us.

:cool:

Ghislain
02-21-2014, 03:37 AM
ChiNamo

I would have like to have broken your last post down into bullet points, but as I read your post I realised I would have to quote most of it.

I don't think anyone lives a "pathetic life" unless they themselves deem it so. The life we live is where we are at and if we are uncomfortable with that "ourselves" then we need to either change or accept it.

You said "that is how it is supposed to be", and what if I disagree with your vision of how it is supposed to be, does that make me wrong? How it is supposed to be is in the mind of each and every individual.

When you start quoting how things are supposed to be you spawn another dictator.

I value your opinion, but that is all it is; your opinion.

Many poor people have found far greater happiness than those in abundance.


I find it difficult to explain exactly what I want to say, but I think this extract from Tom Campbell's book, "My Big Toe" ( http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworldtracker.org%2Fmedia%2Flibrar y%2FMetaphysics%2520%26%2520Spirituality%2FMY%2520 BIG%2520TOE.pdf&ei=0cEGU-GBEITG7AayoIHoCg&usg=AFQjCNG0rHcmRukSVT9pMyoI65D-8ctNtw&bvm=bv.61725948,d.d2k), is as close to an explanation as I coud give.

So I'll let Tom do the talking...


Belief is created when one who lacks scientifically evaluated knowledge puts faith in the premise that things actually are as he or she supposes them to be. Dogma is a fixed set of beliefs that must be accepted on faith in order to join the ranks of the believers who share that particular dogma. Dogma can be cultural, religious, scientific, or personal; it is an integral part of any category of belief. Knowledge that appears to be scientifically or objectively evaluated (to a given individual) may actually be incorrect. This is because we are not omniscient (our knowledge and data are limited), and because we each create our personal reality (objective and subjective) by interpreting our experience.

Belief and knowledge can be either false (incorrect) or true (correct). Both (in either state of correctness) can strongly motivate action. If you are presented with new information, new ideas, or new concepts that you think may possibly have merit, it is far better to maintain open minded skepticism while collecting your data on the subject (even if it takes a life-time) than to jump to conclusions based on some previously held belief or by adding a new belief. Hold on to all the possibilities, old and new, until you have produced the knowledge that correctly evaluates the issues by means of direct experience. The important thing is: You need to get out there and collect the data. Laziness or fear of incompetence on this issue produces high-risk results and dramatically reduces the possibility of significant gain or progress.

The proof of correctness of any piece of knowledge lies only in the results its application produces. That is true of any knowledge (objective or subjective) offered up from any source about anything - including any astute cerebral gems that you may find in this Big TOE trilogy. If knowledge cannot be applied, or its application produces no practical results, that knowledge is, by definition, useless and irrelevant.

Before drawing your sword of truth and hacking away at pseudo-knowl-edge, let me remind you of something. If you cannot productively apply a particular piece of knowledge or a new concept, then that knowledge or concept may be pseudo-knowledge or you may be ignorant and basing your evaluation of that knowledge or concept upon belief or pseudo-knowledge.

Results can be objective, subjective, complex, obvious, abstract, or concrete but they must be real actual results - they must eventually produce objectively measurable effects or changes by interacting with something that is real. Knowledge is only as significant as its effects. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. For now, it is enough to understand that "tasting the pudding" refers to testing the value of your experience, truth, or knowledge by evaluating the objective measurable results it produces. If what you consider to be truth cannot honestly produce objective measurable results, then remove it from the truth bin and put it back into the interesting possibilities bin. Continue collecting pertinent data and always maintain high scientific standards when evaluating results.



Ghislain

ChiNamo
02-21-2014, 05:08 PM
Before responding to some good points in your posts let me get back to the basics first, and lay the ground for our present line of discussion. This thread was not created deliberately, but evolved spontaneously from an introduction thread, and it was separated by the moderators. Therefore let me give some introductory remarks which should have started this thread.

Is there any value and sense in discussing the political, economic, healthcare, and religious systems, conspiracies, wars etc. in an alchemical forum? If you are under the spell of the public educational system (designed to brainwash and create obedient slaves), mass media, and political propaganda, then you may not see any value in doing so. Then you may be convinced that the perceived reality we live in is the only reality possible, and it is good as it is. You may think that there is no connection between alchemy and the harsh realities of our world.

If you are one of these people, then I have to offer you first the choice between the red and blue pill (see the movie Matrix) because the information that may be presented here will shake your belief system. Your rosy worldview and cheerful attitude may collapse, and you will wake up in a dark, depressing “real world” that is so horrifying and disgusting that it made Neo puke. It doesn’t matter whether you will believe any of this or not, it will have a profound effect on your subconscious mind. You have your choice whether you prefer to live in your present delightful but fake world, (like the traitor Cypher in the movie), or you are ready and willing to face the ugly truth. If you prefer to stay in dreamland and enjoy your present life as it is, then I would advice you not to read this thread.

If this would be a “Truther” forum, specialized in revealing and discussing hidden truths that are mostly about the accelerating erosion of all our freedoms, then there would be no need for such disclaimer. People preferring their cosy dream reality avoid such sites by instinct. But if I am about to bring such information into a seemingly unrelated forum with mixed audience, then it would be rude to shatter happy realities without previous warning.

What is the connection between alchemy and the true state of our society –reality? Well, if I have understood correctly the primary aim of alchemy is to “transmute” ourselves into a happier, more powerful, free, advanced being. The making of gold and medicines are only less important byproducts or precursors of the main goal. Alchemy’s goal is basically the same as the goal of some religions (like Buddhism, Shaivism, Vedanta, Taoism) and spiritual systems (like Yoga), but using a different path to get there.

If you are satisfied with your present reality and existence then why would you need to transmute yourself into anything else? Then you don’t need alchemy. If you want to use alchemy only to gain health, long life, and gold then you don’t need to read this thread either (but then alchemy may not give you what you seek).

The starting point of spiritual search and development is to observe, see, and recognize the real nature of the world around us, as we experience it in everyday life. We have to take off our pink glasses and see things for what they really are, not how we have been brainwashed to see it. If you don’t get what I mean, then read the story of Gautama Buddha. Next, we should learn about our real identity, about who we really are, where we came from, and what kind of existence do we all really long for in the depth of our hearts.

Seeing the contrast between these two realities we realize the urgency of breaking free from the trap of our artificially created prison world. Then we explore the methods that may empower us to escape from this prison reality, and regain our real eternally blissful state of existence. If we have taken all this seriously, done our homework, trained ourselves, and ready for the test, then we can have a good chance of victory at the time of death, and we may escape the cycle of perpetual reincarnations. But without this process there is no chance of escape.

This thread may introduce you into the first step of the spiritual process. We could also call it Alchemical Process if you like, but that would be less clear for many readers not very familiar with the primary goal of alchemy. So why not keep the more popular term of “spiritual process” (or development) for the sake of clarity?

ChiNamo
02-21-2014, 07:46 PM
Here is some food for thought.
This is an Infowars.com news which is a controlled opposition to the elite, therefore take it with a grain of salt. It may contain some disinformation, but it usually also contains a lot of truth, because that is their most efficient method of manipulation. If they give 90% truth with 10% PR disinfo then the people will take everything as truth, and the lies are efficiently sold. If you reject the whole as a stupid conspiracy theory, then you will reject the 90% truth as well and you will be the best example of the success of their brainwashing system. I am not sure if I may paste here the video description under “fair use” rights, but I will give it a go anyway. If it is not allowed, then the moderators may remove that.

10 Things the Elite Are Planning for You in the Next 4 Years (2013-2016)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNyVRnXCS9w

Published on Dec 6, 2012
"There will never again be an honest election in the United States" according to the elite banker class that has seized control of the US Government, the corporate media, and the military industrial complex. They are planning to seize ALL private property and wealth, completely wiping out the middle class. Interview with Lindsey Williams: Pastor Lindsay Williams, who has impressed me over the past years with the accuracy of his predictions--calling the huge swings both up and down in oil prices a couple of years ago--has insider information from what he calls the power elite or global elite. (I won't go into detail here about how he gets this insider information except to say, in a nutshell, that he served as the chaplain in Alaska during the 70′s for the oil billionaires, a couple whom took him into their confidence, including the late Eric Fromm and a living man whom Lindsey calls "Mr. X".) With that brief background, here is what Pastor Lindsey Williams recently said about what they plan for the next 4 years. (reporting what he was told by his globalist insider "Mr. X"):

ChiNamo
02-21-2014, 08:44 PM
The only people I met in the insurance business were hard workers keeping the system running.

OK, I understand what you mean. You know some insurance guys who appear to be nice people to you. Does this mean that the insurance business itself is not corrupt? Not at all. The organization of the global mafia is designed to be compartmentalized, and each employee gets to learn only a little piece of the puzzle on the “needs to know” basis, just enough to perform his task. The bulk of the people serving the system don’t know the truth about how the whole works, what their real goals are, who sits at the top of the pyramid etc. They are sold some fake concepts about the fairness, necessity, and greatness of their jobs, so they can proudly and with clear conscience serve the organization. I am not surprised if your acquaintances have got some rosy concepts about their jobs and business in general, that is what they have been thought.

If you really want to know the truth about this limb of the big mafia, you will need to invest some effort and time in research and reading. To give you a good start, here are some links to check out:

http://www.shawnolson.net/a/918/the_big_insurance_scam.html
http://www.shawnolson.net/a/1447/obamas_health_care_reform.html
http://www.shawnolson.net/a/54/insurance_fraud_the_true_story.html

If this is still not enough convincing and you want more detailed information, just run some searches using the following terms (use the quotes characters):
"insurance is a scam", “insurance is a rip off”, “insurance is a racket”, “insurance is a form of gambling”


And in all this comes up the question, "What is life for, what is it all about?"
Good question. And I am curious what everybody here thinks about this. But this belongs to the subject of spirituality, and perhaps it would be wiser to keep it hanging in the air for now until we get to the point to start that discussion in a parallel thread connected to this one. After hearing all your opinions I will give my take on that and some other related things as well.

III
02-21-2014, 09:59 PM
The only people I met in the insurance business were hard workers keeping the system running.

OK, I understand what you mean. You know some insurance guys who appear to be nice people to you. Does this mean that the insurance business itself is not corrupt? Not at all. The organization of the global mafia is designed to be compartmentalized, and each employee gets to learn only a little piece of the puzzle on the “needs to know” basis, just enough to perform his task. The bulk of the people serving the system don’t know the truth about how the whole works, what their real goals are, who sits at the top of the pyramid etc. They are sold some fake concepts about the fairness, necessity, and greatness of their jobs, so they can proudly and with clear conscience serve the organization. I am not surprised if your acquaintances have got some rosy concepts about their jobs and business in general, that is what they have been thought.

You obviously have no idea at all of what I mean from everything you say. We were at the top of the data food chain. We were the watchers of the watchers of the insurance companies, of their consultants, the effects of what they did on the groups we were overseeing. Under DOJ consent decrees we were given the raw data so that we could do our jobs for the trustees of the plans. We were closely watched by all stakeholders. We saw the good, the bad and the ugly of the insurance and medical business, where every cent went. Follow the money, at every level. We found individual crooks from doctors to employer management personnel.

We found some pathetically bad legacy software at the insurance companies. We had the broadest view at all levels from patient and provider through insurer. I ran into a few of these people at group health conferences but mostly we were simply doing an exhaustive bottom to top audit and review, annually for 20 years. We did wring a lot of inefficiency and poor management practices out of the process at all levels. Very few had any substantial conceptions at that point of how to use computers beyond the data crunching conception of the 50s.

We made sure that they got their agreed upon and contracted rate of management compensation. There was no additional unaccounted for monies, so whatever they received at the top came out of the agreed upon compensation. Our consulting firm controlled contracting and who was invited to bid on the contracts. If there were problematic people on the insurance management they didn't get an RFP.

We worked with one group of insurers and selected contracts we were hired to oversee. There were lots of others like us. I can't speak for the entire industry of course, and neither can you. However, in 20+years, looking in unprecedented detail, we never saw any trace of the types of corruption you seem to imagine.



And in all this comes up the question, "What is life for, what is it all about?"

Good question. And I am curious what everybody here thinks about this. But this belongs to the subject of spirituality, and perhaps it would be wiser to keep it hanging in the air for now until we get to the point to start that discussion in a parallel thread connected to this one. After hearing all your opinions I will give my take on that and some other related things as well.

So we have the worker bees and the management wasps of the insurance biz. It would be my opinion, that no matter what it looks like they are doing, they are each and every one of them playing out their karma and learning whatever lessons they have coming their way. I agree that there are a lot of assholes in this world. They all have their selected ways of showing that off to everybody. But if you believe that these so-called "elite" somehow escape the spiritual I would surely disagree with you. There is nothing elite about these folks in any real way. Yes, they have a lot more money and maybe that is their trap, that (sin of, in some terms) greed, that which keeps them out of the light.

You might consider Tantric Alchemy. There, all the better books I've read are doing their best to tell one the methods and many recipes. Even the Taoist Alchemical sex works well both in an entirely ordinary way as well as alchemically. There are a multitude of levels of achievement in the one "recipe". There are so many Tantras, given as exact instructions to generally an alchemical pair. Some of these leave a person with "huh"? since they don't have the understanding required. Others elicit "that's obvious" and somewhere in all of that might be several that could help you to unlock all sorts of gates for you and your deeply cooperating partner. That's right, paired alchemies. A pair of alchemists who have already performed their Alchemical Marriage can then go on to practice Alchemical Union in Maithuna. Success requires genuine total honesty and deep cooperation between two in sacred space. The YONI Tantra for instance says that everything can be achieved with this single practice that is never the same twice. Of course it takes somebody willing to trust completely and work with in LOVE, willing to give up all stories to KNOW. I have given the recipe for the Alchemical Elixir of Life on another thread as it was given to me, which is how I've read it in many sources, and how I have practiced it. It was discussed in whatever terms people were able to discuss it. It is quite effective to the extent the partners are able to activate it.

ChiNamo
02-21-2014, 10:10 PM
I am of the conviction that those that pull that hidden hand, call it "Elite", are spiritually obligated to carry out this task in order to move on from their own 'debt'. They have to do it to advance from this realm. It's no thing personal. So the more one makes it personal, the more one is 'caught in the net'.

Well, this is a demagogy they are trying to sell to the Truther Movement to save their arses in case of trouble. I have seen such absurd ideas spreading on the net lately. I don’t buy it. They serve an evil planetary prison system, they do it out of their free will, because their desires, aspirations, thoughts, personalities are in harmony with doing evil. It does not matter whether it is personal or not. They will (or at least should) reap the results of their evil deeds, suffering, pain, and agony that they cause to us.

The more we take it personal, the more we are 'caught in the net'? Are you saying that the victim will get his butt kicked by the “just” creator of this universe, if he dares to protest for being enslaved? For “taking it personally” and demanding justice (or at least the end of this evil system)?
Please use your sense of right and wrong, and don’t believe everything the new age movement is trying to shove down your throat. The new age movement is also the creation of the elite, they have financed its establishment. If you forsake common sense and sound logic, you will become the puppet of any new fad, and manipulators.


The more energy, thought and time we spend on worrying/thinking/stopping the global elite the more power they get.

The nature of the evil bullies is to oppress and exploit the weak, who are afraid or too stupid to defend themselves. They pray on the weak who accept their domination. They rarely target those who are capable, and brave enough to at least put up some decent resistance when they are attacked. They just get more and more aggressive and powerful if they don’t encounter any such resistance. It is completely natural that if a robber gets away without punishment with stealing and murder, that they will just continue and step up their tyranny. This is how a Mafioso organisation gets established and gains strength riding on the back of the weak and coward.


They are not important, they have no power... they are babies before the universe. If we all notice these facts they will automatically loose any power they have, because the only power they DO have is the fact that WE believe in them.


Well, this all sounds like the disinfo that they are spreading through their fake new age movement. One has to be careful not to fall for nonsense ideas clad into magnificent cloths. They want us to be as passive as possible. Like wait for a saviour, to save us from their clutches - who will never come, by the way. Or entertain debilitating ideas which sound magnificent, but have no connection with reality.

Just look around in the world and you will see that they have got overwhelming power already manifesting everywhere. If you don’t see this, and don’t believe me, then we will have to expose these scenes one after the other until the truth sinks in. The universe is not going to protect us from these “babies” who are sucking our blood, and don’t intend to stop it.

It is not sufficient to recognize that they have got weaknesses, they will not lose any power if we don’t act and put up some decent resistance and fight. The bully will not stop beating you daily just because you recognize that he will collapse if you kick his balls with all your force. You will actually have to put this into practice to break free from his oppression.

Your strategy of defeating them also implies the condition “If WE ALL notice these facts…” You are expecting something unrealistic, that everybody knows will not happen any time soon, if ever. So basically, they have planted into your mind a sterile slogan and concept of illusory victory, which can never manifest in the real world.

Awani
02-21-2014, 11:00 PM
The nature of the evil bullies is to oppress and exploit the weak, who are afraid or too stupid to defend themselves.

Then let nature have its way.


Your strategy of defeating them also implies the condition “If WE ALL notice these facts…” You are expecting something unrealistic, that everybody knows will not happen any time soon, if ever. So basically, they have planted into your mind a sterile slogan and concept of illusory victory, which can never manifest in the real world.

The above quote/thinking helps 'them' more than it helps you.

They have planted many things into all our brains... some of us have washed ourselves clean. ;) Only people who claim the impossible will never experience the possible.

:cool:

ChiNamo
02-21-2014, 11:48 PM
Some more food for thought:

SHADE the Motion Picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4VFYRaltcc

Published on Oct 15, 2013
Shade exposes the true power structure embedded in our global reality, showing the true controllers their plans to Geo-engineer our planet and control the populace…

III
02-22-2014, 12:48 AM
Some more food for thought:

SHADE the Motion Picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4VFYRaltcc

Published on Oct 15, 2013
Shade exposes the true power structure embedded in our global reality, showing the true controllers their plans to Geo-engineer our planet and control the populace…




Gag me with a spoon! So how many legs do you expect to collect? If you pull enough of them hard enough for long enough maybe a few could come right off, or maybe not.

Awani
02-22-2014, 02:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4VFYRaltcc

As an Illuminati agent I have to say this video is 100 % wrong.

:cool:

Awani
02-22-2014, 03:00 AM
Look, check out this metaphor.

Alchemy Forums = Society

Moderators = Elite

dev = Puppetmaster

Mods + dev meet in secret, in the shadows, behind closed doors, to control and manage the forums.

The members can do what we say or they can break the rules and be banned. But we have no power over them when they decide not to participate in the forums anymore.

Get it?

Or do you want to try and get some members together and try to change the way the forum is ruled (considering the fact the the rulers here will not change their ways)? Or is it easier to just leave?

:cool:

III
02-22-2014, 04:09 AM
As an Illuminati agent I have to say this video is 100 % wrong.

:cool:


Quite right Dev. It doesn't even have the official Illuminati seal of permission anywhere in it.

Seth-Ra
02-22-2014, 06:20 AM
Look, check out this metaphor.

Alchemy Forums = Society

Moderators = Elite

dev = Puppetmaster

Mods + dev meet in secret, in the shadows, behind closed doors, to control and manage the forums.

The members can do what we say or they can break the rules and be banned. But we have no power over them when they decide not to participate in the forums anymore.

Get it?

Or do you want to try and get some members together and try to change the way the forum is ruled (considering the fact the the rulers here will not change their ways)? Or is it easier to just leave?

:cool:

Dev,

I have to say that that was the most succinct and brilliant metaphor for this conversation. :D


___


While its true there are some waring factions/powers/frequencies at play in the world - so what? They each have their purpose. You wont destroy one. You may change how it effects you, by transcending your current state of being a victim - but otherwise its just yourself trying to disrupt a piece of what Is, rather than make use of it.
Even Satan is not for killing, but for using - who else would (the other) God bet with? ;)

Also, you cant speak of practical in this sense (fighting the "elite"), without the use of nukes or bio weapons. The "elite" being mentioned, obviously have no "give-a-shit" about life - you escalating the violence will result in you losing. Period. (cause you'll become what you're attempting to fight, and the fight will result in them doing what they do best: mass murder - caused more-so by your rebellion, than just playing ball, and since only "your side" cares about life - its no biggie to them, only you.)
Case and point: Syria. Play ball, save up, GTFO, make better life elsewhere. OR - create a civil war, countless deaths, a lot of children and civilians, trading one crazy warlord for another - and at the end of the day, all you've done is sack a country for... nothing. Be a victim, cause a war - after all, your misery loves company.


There is "evil" in the world - you'll call the Frequencies that arent yours exactly that. I have felt those shadows, that feed on death and fear - hell, i worked for them. I didnt align, it was torture, it effected me via chain of command, fellow comrades, and even via supernatural means. I didnt, and dont hate it. I have no need to start a war with it. It was against my fragmented-frequency in this life, but it was a good life-experience, and does help many of my other friends. Such is the way of things. You dont have to agree with people, or even like what they do - but choosing to be their victim, instead of a Student of Life, learning from each opponent, seeing opposition as teachers rather than enemies - if you choose to be their slave, their enemy, their victim, then it is as Dev points out; you give them the power over you. If you find yourself in such a position, then be wise enough to get out of it without bloodshed. Otherwise, you become the same as them, just a different band of color in the white-light that is Reality.


Know thy self, and in doing so, you'll put yourself in the world (frequency) youre supposed to be in.

Keep seeing strangers in the mirror, and you'll bloody your own self swinging at the scary glass pieces.




~Seth-Ra

Andro
02-22-2014, 08:09 AM
Jesster, did I just get a Philosophical Mindgasm from your post? I strongly resonate with everything you wrote...

Was this a case of Cyber-Tantric Alchemy?

:cool:

Now on a slightly more 'serious' note, I see how this 'debate' could potentially come full circle, if some of the involved principles are seen and recognized.

If there is a genuine interest in Hermetism (of which Alchemy is a prominent facet), I recommend reading the Kybalion (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3915-The-Kybalion-The-7-Hermetic-Principles), which is a pretty decent summary of Hermetic Laws and Principles. Anyone not familiar with it, should be aware in advance that this is NOT some manufactured new age crapology, but ancient wisdom that has been transmitted on Earth through the ages, more or less unaltered.

To address the matter at hand, I will simply quote a few paragraphs from Chapter 11:


"The Hermetic Masters discovered that there were two general planes of Consciousness, the Lower and the Higher, the understanding of which fact enabled them to rise to the higher plane and thus escape the swing of the Rhythmic pendulum which manifested on the lower plane. In other words, the swing of the pendulum occurred on the Unconscious Plane, and the Consciousness was not affected.

This they call the Law of Neutralization. Its operations consist in the raising of the Ego above the vibrations of the Unconscious Plane of mental activity, so that the negative-swing of the pendulum is not manifested in consciousness, and therefore they are not affected. It is akin to rising above a thing and letting it pass beneath you. The Hermetic Master, or advanced student, polarizes himself at the desired pole, and by a process akin to “refusing” to participate in the backward swing, or, if you prefer, a “denial” of its influence over him, he stands firm in his polarized position, and allows the mental pendulum to swing back along the unconscious plane.

All individuals who have attained any degree of self-mastery, accomplish this, more or less unknowingly, and by refusing to allow their moods and negative mental states to affect them, they apply the Law of Neutralization. The Master, however, carries this to a much higher degree of proficiency, and by the use of his Will he attains a degree of Poise and Mental Firmness almost impossible of belief on the part of those who allow themselves to be swung backward and forward by the mental pendulum of moods and feelings.

The importance of this will be appreciated by any thinking person who realizes what creatures of moods, feelings and emotion the majority of people are, and how little mastery of themselves they manifest. [...] An understanding of the workings of this Principle will give one the key to the Mastery of these rhythmic swings of feeling, and will enable him to know himself better and to avoid being carried away by these inflows and outflows. The Will is superior to the conscious manifestation of this Principle, although the Principle itself can never be destroyed. We may escape its effects, but the Principle operates, nevertheless. The pendulum ever swings, although we may escape being carried along with it."
I (obviously) haven't (yet) achieved such degree of mastery. But I'm slowly moving in this direction, and I am highly motivated. Of course I don't like the rising levels of control, regulation and manipulation going on in the world, and I also see that a 'critical mass' of awakened individuals may well still be quite a few generations ahead. But I'm doing the best I can do for now, hoping to lead by example rather than by preaching/debating/recruiting/activism/etc...

I have changed countries of residence a few times in my life. When things got shitty in one, I left for another. And repeat. I avoid nationalistic/'patriotic' brainwashing at all costs. I'm not some legume planted in the ground with no option to move around, both physically/geographically and mentally/spiritually. Localities can be very fluid, sometimes even more than (most) mentalities...

When sensing what's coming, non-brainwashed people left Nazi Germany and fled for the US. Now a similar pattern is starting to emerge in the US - people starting to look for better pastures.

Individuals of special genius (such as Arthur C. Clarke) have also done the same (leaving westernized/stupidized/regulated areas for other places and managing to find their peace of mind). This is not exclusively a geographic relocation, it is also a change in spirituality, mentality and perception. It is also a form of 'leading by example'. Maybe it's not the ideal idea of Mastery, but it's definitely a start to polarize oneself to the 'better' and/or 'higher' state/condition. 'Seeking the Higher Ground' is not necessarily limited to topology.

ChiNamo - I hear you, I feel you. I think I may even know the place you're speaking from, and I agree with the reality of it. But I don't have to live this reality in full, so I will avoid it to the best of my abilities and use the rest as lessons of growth through adversity (one of the BEST teachers). This way, I (and others) can lead by example, to hopefully accelerate the reaching of that 'critical mass' I was talking about earlier.

But if you're looking for a global majority to affect 'change' - just look around, look at everyone you meet (or hear about) and tell me what you see. Look at the platitudes that most people are writing on Facebook or YouTube (for example) or listen to all the mundane conversations. How many are ready and willing to make even the slightest change to their comfort zone?
______________________________________

The 'Matrix' movie has been brought up as a metaphor. At the conclusion of the trilogy, we notice a few things:

Neo does NOT 'save' the population kept inside the Matrix. They continue to remain plugged in as energy sources/living batteries, just as before.

Neither does he 'save' Zion, as it continues to be ruled by the same cycles as before, hacking/re-booting/incarnating/etc...

Neo basically only 'saves' himself, by becoming lifted/removed from 'The Game' of the 'Lower Ground'.

However, he does so while simultaneously making the self-sacrifice required to allow for NATURAL evolution to continue, inside the dualistic Us & Them system.

The Zion people have the hacking equipment and know-how to technically extract ANYONE from the Matrix.

Why aren't they doing this? Why are they rarely even bothering with 'inserts' above a certain age?

Because the 'inserts' believe in the system that feeds on them, to the point of willing to fight back and even sacrifice themselves to defend their captors.

So, by facilitating the removal of the 'Extinction Level Event' that is Smith, Neo allows the Matrix/Zion 'Evolution Game' to continue as before:

The Machines keep at their thing, feeding on unawakened humans.

Individual Awakenings continue to occur, each at their own time and according to their disposition.

We even get that beautiful Oracle & Architect agreement in the end, where it is decided that anyone who truly wants (and is ready) to 'unplug', will be allowed to do so without repercussions.
______________________________________

So, to summarize:

I believe that progress/advancement/'liberation' occur at the level of the individual and at different rates. Watching yet another conspiracy video won't change too much IMO. Good (and realistically implementable) solutions, on the other hand, even if they're not 'perfect', can often go viral and become infectious (again, 'leading by example').

These were my 5 Dollars.

(Used to be my 2 Cents, but with all the fiat money printing and inflation rates...)


✂-------------------------------------------------------------------------

theFool
02-22-2014, 08:58 AM
I believe that progress/advancement/'liberation' occur at the level of the individual and at different rates. Watching yet another conspiracy video won't change too much IMO. Good (and realistically implementable) solutions, on the other hand, even if they're not 'perfect', can often go viral and become infectious (again, 'leading by example').
Exactly! Let's concentrate on practical alchemy (= move ass) and the answers to all speculations about the world will come by themselves.

ChiNamo
02-22-2014, 01:49 PM
Wow!
The situation here looks like as if I have gone to the Vatican and tried to point out some of the fallacies of Catholic religion. Would it make any sense? Certainly not, so why did I even attempt it? Because I didn’t know it was the Vatican.

But thanks to the speech of the pope and the cardinals now I know better. This is not the place to share my ideas and experiences. Got it, no problem at all. Nothing personal.

Awani
02-22-2014, 03:32 PM
Well there is a big difference between sharing ideas and experiences, and preaching a self-invented gospel.

But even more important if you share your ideas be prepared for other people not to agree with you, or share their own ideas. This is the whole point of a forum. If you came seeking a bunch of Yes-men then you came to the wrong place. Ideas, respect and sharing is what makes the forum work. No one holds all the answers, no one is the leader/adept...

According to your Vatican metaphor you are implying Alchemy Forums is full of close-minded dogmatic people? Well, it is only people who refuse to realize that everyone will not bow down to their version of reality that are dogmatic.

:cool:

Ghislain
02-22-2014, 04:43 PM
The world is like a big business, there is demand and supply. The supply will come from the most efficient cost effective place...we are all shoppers. We buy foreign goods because they are cheaper and thus we give our patronage to the people and workers in those foreign countries...would you pay double for something made at home that is no better?

Now you run a government...how do you cope with a population that is undermining your every effort to make the country comfortable for its populace while they are giving away the wealth to other countries?

Catch22...

We cant compete with the likes of China and India as they have a vastly lower wage bill than we do...is anyone willing to take a voluntary pay cut so we can compete? I doubt it!

So what happens? Your wages stay the same, but the spending power of what you earn decreases...it's a fact of life...what else could anyone possibly expect?

We have to stop living in Cloud Cuckoo Land...every dog has its day and we have had ours...now it is time for the underdogs...the likes of Asia and Africa to have theirs.

Live in denial if you want, but that is how it is going to be...

We can try and manipulate the situation by undermining these other countries with misinformation, stirring up rebellious factions, occupation and the likes, but we are only delaying the inevitable, the west will become the third world IMO...live with it!

The conspiracy theories come from people who don't realise the difficulty the western governments have in trying to keep us in the lifestyle we have become accustomed to.

We need to open our eyes and learn to speak Chinese, Urdu or any language that will help you in Africa :)

If we stop denying it maybe we can prepare for it to lessen the shock.

Just an idea!

Ghislain

III
02-22-2014, 05:04 PM
Wow!
The situation here looks like as if I have gone to the Vatican and tried to point out some of the fallacies of Catholic religion. Would it make any sense? Certainly not, so why did I even attempt it? Because I didn’t know it was the Vatican.

But thanks to the speech of the pope and the cardinals now I know better. This is not the place to share my ideas and experiences. Got it, no problem at all. Nothing personal.


Perhaps these are not the droids you are looking for. None of them are wearing beanies.

Krisztian
02-22-2014, 07:43 PM
Fear and anger and violence is the primary binding agent of humanity to the system itself, to this Realm. For those three emotions are but one and the same currency. So whether one "knows" what the Elite is up to or not, as long as there's anger still within the body and mind, that person is trapped regardless.

That's why the work of 'Alex Jones and Inc.' while he means genuinely, corrupts and ignites the heart, producing the same energetic influence as from the Elite. Only from a place of love can one however see that point.

Dragonsblood
02-23-2014, 07:09 PM
Fun thread :-)

What about the idea that there are several possible realities and that we each choose ours, so if it is preferential to wake up to your Self by battling against "the adversary" in any of its forms - good on you!
They Are Real & Out To Get You (if you remain unconscious) - so rise up!
This channel kind of sums it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMPXlyliLYM#t=15

Then on to waking up to the illusion of separation/form. Progress happens at the level of the individual, but just as we didn't each individually have to invent the light bulb to benefit from its light, each "individual" awakening and re-connection to Oneness (inclusive of but standing outside of space & time) benefits and speeds up awakening of the organism that is the present "human kingdom/race".

Or not.. Free will is fun that way.

Awani
02-23-2014, 09:09 PM
What about the idea that there are several possible realities and that we each choose ours...

I think it is like this. That is why I keep arguing 'don't give your energy to the elite'... we all create our own reality. So what do we want? A utopia or a police state?

Of course I am not blind to 'reality', and I am aware of the state of the world. Doesn't mean I focus on it, or pay attention to it... much better to spend my time creating a better reality. After all reality is what happens all around YOU.

:cool:

Awani
02-23-2014, 09:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRn_7aMoX0Y

:cool:

III
02-23-2014, 10:09 PM
Well there is a big difference between sharing ideas and experiences, and preaching a self-invented gospel.

But even more important if you share your ideas be prepared for other people not to agree with you, or share their own ideas. This is the whole point of a forum. If you came seeking a bunch of Yes-men then you came to the wrong place. Ideas, respect and sharing is what makes the forum work. No one holds all the answers, no one is the leader/adept...

According to your Vatican metaphor you are implying Alchemy Forums is full of close-minded dogmatic people? Well, it is only people who refuse to realize that everyone will not bow down to their version of reality that are dogmatic.

:cool:




Hi Dev,


Maybe he thinks your mushroom caps look like the those of cardinals and is confused. ChiNamo doesn't even want to look at the Tantric recipes and methods in his search for "the recipe". I'm having a good time and don't feel a need to equate a money and power "elite" to any kind of spiritual knowledge. They are playing the game of illusion of their choice and I don't give any energy in support. There are many specific alchemical sequences created by many different people, and each one in combination of the one doing it produces a unique result. It's not as if there is any way to mass produce successful Alchemists that I know of. It's an individual work even when done with a partner.


There is no pope of alchemy. An old saying in some of the disciplines "Every monk his own doctrine". And the world changes as more understanding comes to more people.

Awani
02-23-2014, 10:16 PM
Maybe he thinks your mushroom caps look like the those of cardinals and is confused.

Well it's kind of true.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/images_zps9df39893.jpeg

:cool: