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Wigwamman
03-25-2014, 05:55 PM
full isolation of mono-atomic minerals (http://www.scribd.com/doc/214454528/Full-isolation-of-mono-atomic-elements-From-Dead-Sea-Salt)..


In this document I will try to describe a method of extracting the M-state minerals from Dead sea salt.. this method is far superior to the normal NaOH extraction.


the usual way of dong this is taking a solution of NaOH and add it to a solution of DSS (Dead sea salt) this would precipitate out all kind of minerals | Magnesium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide | and of coerce some of the M-state, normally you would swing the ph from 10.74 to 1 and back a few times this would ensure the full breakup of cluster in the Magnesium and calcium, so it can free the Mono-atomic, this method is not very a use full method because you will be left with a lot of other minerals and it takes allot of chemicals, and we want only the M-state and not the other minerals.


in the method that is described it will isolate only the mono-atomic elements,

the things you need...



Sodium bicarbonate | NaHCO3 |

Dead sea salt | real dead sea salt |

Hydrogen peroxide 30% | H2O2 |


Step (1)

is to create your working solution

make a saturated solution (9gr/100ml) of NaHCO3 this water should be at room temperature or some what colder(19 c). After all is dissolved you have made your first alkalist (working solution).


””The nice thing of this alkalist is that it breaks up the clusters on its own and it will be water soluble Hydrocarbonats the Mono-atomics will react with the air and will begin to precipitate out, this is far superior to normal Sodium carbonate or hydroxide””


Step (2)


add this alkalist to some of your dead sea salt.. this will dissolve the salt, after all is dissolved filter this solution. The precipitate will begin to form on top of the solution, it will form some transparent to white crystals. This will take about 2 weeks to precipitate all the M-state minerals


“”if you close the container nothing will happen for a long time, but when u open the container it will slowly begin to precipitate the M-state, with this there will precipitate out some magnesium and some calcium in a carbonate form, this will take up to 2 weeks to let every thing precipitate out.””

(now the first thing you can do is dissolve the resulting precipitate and precipitate it again with NaHCO3, but this will take forever because every precipitation will take longer, so to clean this up we will go for a different rout.)


Step (3)

The resulting precipitate can be washed and dryed, to clean it from all water soluble materials

after this is powdered in to a fine powder you can take a long neck round bottom flask and add the powder to it.



Step (4)

Now its the time for our second alkalist (working solution), to prepare this alkalist not allot has to be done, the only thing that needs to be done is to cool the H2O2 in the deep freezer this will form ice water and a more concentrated concentration of H2O2.


Step (5)

Now add this concentrated solution of H2O2 to the powder in the round bottom flask. This will not do allot at first but after some time and the H2O2 will warm up some the reaction will begin to form.

The solution will begin to get hot and should be cooled with some sort of water bath,

after most of the of the reaction hes subsided it will cool again, let this solution sit for some days (3),



Step (6)

after some days (3) allot of the powder hes dissolved and the stuff that is still undissolved can be filtered off , do this with bleached filter paper “the white ones”

after filtration you will be left with a clear solution of H2O2 and this will contain all of the M-state,



Step (7)

this could be precipitated with a alkali of choice (NaOH, NaCO3), or the H2O2 could be slowly distilled of and you would be left with a precipitate that is water soluble, this is pure M-state element, isolated from Dead Sea Salt,

with love..

amoodikh
03-27-2014, 08:39 PM
Excellent process Wigwamman. Have you been doing it and did you ingest the m-state of this process. What was your method to verify or test it if it is pure m-state?

Wigwamman
03-27-2014, 10:32 PM
good day Amoodikh,


after allot of experimentation i found out that a carbonate precipitate of M-state would like to form crystals, and wanted to isolate the crystals form the very powdery magnesium and calcium carbonate, after verifying it with precipitating a carbonate with lab-grade calcium and magnesium chloride, this showed me that no crystals were formed, so this was a clear result that showed me that these crystals were in fact not magnesium or calcium carbonate, so this could be M-state was my thought.

after collecting some of the crystals that formed after some time, i tested it for some time and it did have some defended m-state effects, so i could conclude that this was indeed m-state, but is was still very contemplated with magnesium and calcium, i could see this under my microscope there was a defined difference between precipitates, so i was on the hunt for a more isolated method of extracting these crystals, after allot of though about how i could break down the particles and only precipitate out the crystals i came to the conclusion that a bicarbonate of magnesium and calcium is soluble in water, i thought that maybe the crystals would not be soluble as a bicarbonate and it would be the right ph for gold m-state to precipitate this ph would be 8 - 8.5. in turn, the bicarbonate would insure that all the particles were broken down in solution, so i gave it a try, and did not do allot at first, so i heated the solution and some of the precipitate would drop out this was a mix of carbonates, and did not like the outcome allot, i left some unheated solution overnight, and the next day there were crystals growing on top of the water, so this was great nieuws, so i left this all for some time and after 2 weeks no crystals were growing anymore, after filtration and washing and tested it for some time and it was rely strong, and had to dose down a bit, after testing i found it still to contain magnesium and calcium but allot less then before "some of the Mg and Ca was precipitated with the crystals" so i dissolved it in HCL and and did the same thing again, this time a more pure crystal was precipitated, i reapeded this process 5x and it was now as pure is it could get, this was rely a strong M-state salt, the only thing is that every time i precipitate it would take longer, so this was a little time consuming, and having patience, but thinking Alchemy is the acceleration of nature so if it can be done quicker im all for that, so after more experimentation i found by accident that the crystals would dissolve very slowly in hydrogen peroxide, so i did some research and some experiments with the Mg and the Ca to see if they would dissolve in it, and i concluded that they did not dissolve, this is what the Internet hes told me as well. so this was great news, so i could add H2O2 to the first precipitation and it would dissolve only the m-state crystals, after precipitating from the H2O2 with a hydroxide it formed a very fluffy semen looking precipitate, so i smiled :D
after precipitating with a carbonate beautifully crystals appeared, so i smiled again :D
after slowly evaporating the H2O2 under candle light, i found that it to be a very fine powder that is not very hydro attractive, but will dissolve in water. so i smiled even more :D

after wanting to do it without the candle and with a electric heating element i almost instantly precipitate out the m-state and would not dissolve any more, so this concluded that when the temperature was still lower than that of the candle, and electric heating element was used it would precipitate, this would tell us that it is very magnetically sensitive so this would conclude that the m-state in solution is pretty strong and not bonded to any other minerals,

this is the road that i took for verification, and after ingesting the new precipitated there is in my eyes no doubt that this is pure m-state.


with love...

theFool
04-19-2014, 03:02 PM
I have tried this process on DSS and reached to step (3) (Formation and isolation of carbonate crystals). I can verify that those crystals are formed on the surface of the solution and that they are most probably calcium carbonate because when they react with acid, they produce gas bubbles.
Hopefully, I will keep you updated about the rest (and more interesting part) of this process' replication later.

Wigwamman
04-23-2014, 03:43 PM
I can say with 100 procent certainty that it is not calcium carbonate i have tested this with labgrade calcium chloride and it does not do the same thing. it does not precipitate or form crystals the same goes for magnesium chloride,

to say because it produces bubbles when a acid is added, its calcium carbonate is some what inaccurate every carbonate / hydroxide precipitate does that,
i did this on some dolomite / limepowder as well and it works as well but it does not give me allot of crystals prob because its a bad source.. and this consists of mostly calcium carbonate, so this would if your theory is correct produce loads of crystals, but it does not ;)

+ calcium carbonate does not dissolve in h2o2 ;) i tested this as well ;)
and see this link Calcium carbonate + Hydrogen peroxide (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110727030241AAhaxSS)

From fixed to volatile to fixed again, to a volatile fire

from earth to mercury, to earth to sulfur mercury.. ;)

good luck with the replication,


With love...

theFool
04-23-2014, 04:52 PM
I can say with 100 procent certainty that it is not calcium carbonate i have tested this with labgrade calcium chloride and it does not do the same thing. Nice discovery Mr Wigwamman :). Quite peculiar. We shall perform some further experiments on this salt and of course we should test the emmited gas ( :) ). I had a suspicion in some prevous threads that it was not CO2. If this salt is a carbonate of some form, it will be CO2. If you are right, I think we will be surprised..

theFool
04-23-2014, 06:57 PM
Well, I performed some tests on the salt that I thought it was calcium carbonate. It does not behave like it at all. Try to dissolve it in HCl, then precipitate it with K2CO3, you get a fluffy white precipitate that floats (tube 1).
Take CaCl2, dissolve it in HCl, precipitate it with K2CO3, you get a "heavy" white precip that settles down quickly (tube 2).

Now the good part: Continue with the test tube (1); dissolve the fluffy precipitate in HCl. Then precipitate it again with K2CO3 until pH goes high. No precipitate will be observed (!) (or very little that dissappears afterwards). Now take the tube and heat it .. what a surprise.
Perform the same on tube No (2), it behaves differently.

Thanks Wigwamman for sharing your recipe openly. This is a great example of how progress can be accelerated by "peer review". I will try to keep you updated with my observations and ideas for the benefit of all.

With love :D

Wigwamman
04-24-2014, 04:54 PM
Good day theFool,

it nice to see that you find it interesting what i posted :)

i did the experiment as well.. re precipitating with NaCO3 instead of using K2CO3 tho.

and at ph 10 it is still not precipitated. this is very interesting and i did not notice this yet so i thank u for this :)

im heating now as u suggested but not seeing any changes yet. did something interesting happen in your solution when heated...?

With love...

theFool
04-24-2014, 05:33 PM
im heating now as u suggested but not seeing any changes yet. did something interesting happen in your solution when heated...? Yes, upon heating, the white fluffy precipitate appears, then, when cold it disappears again. I tried to put more K2CO3 in case it was not in excess the first time, but again, this peculiar behaviour continues.

Also tried to check if the emmited gas is CO2. It can extinguish a flame, but I want to try this experiment again with purer ormus because the CO2 might be emmited from the impurities.

Wigwamman
04-24-2014, 09:06 PM
hay theFool,

yes i see almost the same thing here, when heated a crystal skin will form on top of the water, when cooled it dissolves again. but i used the H2O2 crystals for this and not the NaCO3 or K2CO3

if u precipitate 2-3x with NaHCO3 than it will turn up almost pure, or u can use H2O2 to do the job. the H2O2 crystals are very interesting as well, one thing you should do is wash it very well and then powder it as fine as possible, then add the H2O2, it will turn yellow to green (depending in light conditions)

the H2O2 crystals are good candidates for dry distillation :) white smoke and leaves a blackniss, that after calcanation with high heat will turn to a very white crystal body ;) i still have to test this more but it looks promising ;)


With love..

ps Great work TheFool.. :D

theFool
04-24-2014, 09:47 PM
:) I'm happy to see you confirm it. I have already purified some ormus by 2-3 dissolution cycles. Now i keep it in a flask as a "proof of concept" as it can be precipitated or disappeared depending on the outside heat.

Eager to continue with the crystals as soon I get my hands on some H2O2. I will love the white smoke you describe :) thanks a lot!

Wigwamman
04-26-2014, 10:20 PM
hay theFool,

here is a photo of the the green solution , that s made with the H2O2

http://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/81/65/99/img_2017.jpg

http://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/81/65/99/img_2018.jpg

theFool
04-28-2014, 11:53 AM
hay theFool,

here is a photo of the the green solution , that s made with the H2O2

Hello! What a great quantity you got there :D
I have already started my second dissolution in ~30% H2O2 (I haven't concentrated it). It is been 2 days now and the fizzing goes on. Visually, my solution does not have this intriguing green color because of smaller quantities probably.

Wigwamman
04-28-2014, 02:56 PM
good day,

this is great news ;)

i concentrated the green solution from 350ml to about 100ml so now its saturated
the color is still the same.

i found that if i add a balloon to the flask, so that it is not exposed to free air the reaction will be better, you just have to let the balloon go empty from time to time :)

With love...
Wigwamman

theFool
04-28-2014, 05:37 PM
i concentrated the green solution from 350ml to about 100ml so now its saturated
the color is still the same.
Hm, before concentrating the solution, was it green? Some sources say that m-state gold in solution can get a green color after digesting (heating) it.



i found that if i add a balloon to the flask, so that it is not exposed to free air the reaction will be better, you just have to let the balloon go empty from time to time :)
Nice, this is an handy way to check if the gas is oxygen too.

Wigwamman
04-28-2014, 06:53 PM
Hm, before concentrating the solution, was it green? Some sources say that m-state gold in solution can get a green color after digesting (heating) it.


yes it was green before i concentrated it, but it did get worm when it was digesting in the H2O2 ;)
i heated it a little over a candle so that the reaction would start quicker and after that i removed the candle and it heated itself for some time, and i let it stand untill the balloon did not grow anymore after that i filterd and collected the precipitate in the filter and put it back in the flask and added again H2O2 and did the same again with the heating. this gave me the green solution,

the smell in the balloon is some what that of the solutions smell, i was planning to try and see if something could be condensed in a very cold receiver, dont know if this would give any results but is worth a try,

when tasting the green solution (after all H2O2 was decomposed) it gave ma a strong mstate feeling on my forehead :)

With love...

theFool
05-16-2014, 01:32 PM
I have already purified some ormus by 2-3 dissolution cycles. Now i keep it in a flask as a "proof of concept" as it can be precipitated or disappeared depending on the outside heat.
After some cycles of heating and cooling the solution in that flask took the green color. So, probabaly heat is important for the appearence of the green color.


Hm, before concentrating the solution, was it green? Some sources say that m-state gold in solution can get a green color after digesting (heating) it

Wigwamman
05-16-2014, 04:09 PM
hay thefool..

this is interesting... great information :D and yes i headed the solution... this was so that the reaction would take place some what faster. circulation / heating will prob give more energy to the mstate that is in solution... i have heard as well that the more energy the green lion processes the greener it will become....

With love...
wigwamman

theFool
07-20-2014, 04:49 PM
An update:
One easy way to obtain the green solution mentioned in the above posts is to dissolve the purified salt of step (3) of the recipe, into hydrochloric acid* (weak acid seems to be ok). Then, start evaporating the solution on low heat. Within some time it will turn green and you will see it getting greener and greener as it concentrates.
This green solution (A) can be studied in various ways. You can get some ideas here, in an older thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?574-gold-chloride-solution-from-Dead-sea-salts).

I have tried to separate the green thing from the other salts. It seems soluble in ethanol, but so are some of the other salts too (CaCl2?). So, with ethanol we cannot obtain a perfect separation.
Then comes extraction with ether. It seems to be soluble in ether (changes the color to green), but needs enough time to dissolve. I tried to isolate it by evaporating the ether, but got nothing of green color (:confused:). I only got a very very thin whitish "butter" that smells like citrus (could it be self condensation of ether?)
When the green HCl solution (A) is evaporated to dryiness, white salts appear but in some areas they are colored yellow-green. Obviously the thing that gives the green color to the solution can color those salts.

I propose next to check the solubility in naptha, toluene or other, more convenient solvent. Check if this green substance can distill together with the solvent.

It has been proposed that the green color is given due to bromide salts found in DSS. An experiment needs to be designed in order to rule out or confirm this possibility.

If anyone is actively following this thread, please report back your findings. Thanks.

*Unfortunatelly I haven't tried this with clean HCl yet.

theFool
07-20-2014, 07:38 PM
In another experiment, salt of the step (3) was extracted by 3% H2O2. I wanted to see if this 3% H2O2 can substitute the 30% H2O2 needed by the recipe. The extraction proceeded for some days with bubbles. Then, the H2O2 solution was evaporated to dryines and a white salt occured. This white salt when heated strongly turns black and melts at ~500 C. This white salt was dissolved in weak HCl and then put to digestion. It turned green in color. I believe that those are indications that the extraction with 3% H2O2 can work too for the purification process.

One other observation on the green liquid is that the color dissappears when the pH is raised in the alkaline region.

theFool
07-20-2014, 09:19 PM
Some thoughts on the possibility that the color may be attributed to bromine (or chlorine) generated by possible bromine salts in DSS:

- I have found this quote in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromine):

.. Lwig used a solution of the mineral salt saturated with chlorine and extracted the bromine with diethyl ether. After evaporation of the ether a brown liquid remained.. Br2 has a b.p. of 58.8 C. I should have seen that when ether extracted the green salts, except if Br2 evaporated too, or except if the coloration is attributed to Cl2 (but I would have smelled it at least ..).

- Br2 in acidic solution has a brownish coloration; in alkaline solution this coloration disappears. The same for Cl2, it has a green color in acidic environment which disappears in alkaline environment. This behaviour is similar to the behavior of the "DSS green solution"

- Cl2 and Br2 has a very characteristic smell, especially when the solution is heated and those gases escape. In the case of the "DSS green solution" this smell is not detected.

theFool
07-21-2014, 07:58 AM
Here a picture of the green solution (right). On the left, the green solution after digestion for some days. It has taken an orangish hue.

http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/27/64/97/wigw110.jpg


Also, performed a blind experiment on ether extraction (ether digested on HCl and NaCl solution and then separated and dried). It gave no white "butter" neither the citrus smell.

I only got a very very thin whitish "butter" that smells like citrus (could it be self condensation of ether?)

theFool
08-16-2014, 05:54 PM
... The extraction proceeded for some days with bubbles. Then, the H2O2 solution was evaporated to dryines and a white salt occured. This white salt when heated strongly turns black and melts at ~500 C. This white salt was dissolved in weak HCl and then put to digestion... Some of this white salt was not put into digestion but was dried and then dry-distilled. It gave a white smoke, difficult to condense. The smoke is acidic and smells like HCl. (the distillate can dissolve iron, it leaves a red residue upon evaporation which upon ethanol extraction and evaporation gives an orange jelly, not a salt)

The interesting part of the experiment is that the distillate contains a volatile salt in it, which becomes visible (precipitates) when the pH is raised.

theFool
08-17-2014, 06:10 PM
Caput motrum of the above said dry-distillation was extracted with alcohol, acidified (with HCl) and evaporated. Green crystals appeared:
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/13/27/64/97/greenm10.png