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Breemar
08-25-2014, 01:18 AM
First of all, I am a beginner. Where I live, it isn't so easy to buy Sodium hydroxide. In fact, the drug store that had it, refused to sell it to me, saying it could be used to make drugs, implying that I look like a crack junkie, which was extremly upsetting. Such things make me sick... Meanwhile I know that this person was wrong in that Sodium Carbonate, aka Baking Soda is used to make Drugs, and guess what, Baking Soda is sold everywhere, without limits. Anyway, I had to find a way around. I tried to make Potassium hydroxide from Wood ashes, it worked, but was a lot of work just for a half a cup of PH11 solution...

So I thought I will give Sodium Carbonate a try. For Swimming Pools, named "PH Plus", seemed to be exactly what I needed.

First of all, you have to mix the water with the soda first and add the salt later. If you do it the other way, the soda will not disolve in Saltwater.

Second, if you're a beginner like me, you should know that the various brands of food grade Sea Salt differ a lot. At the other hand, unprocessed Dead Sea Salt, eg. bath salt, is usually all about the same.

So first I tried it with atlantic sea salt only, but the result was poor: slightly milky solution that did not set over night, but remained colloidal. So, the next day I added some dead sea salt, and bingo, the solution became very milky, almost completely opaque.

Right now it is sitting since about 5 hours and I have about 80% white ppt on the bottom and totally clear water on top, it's seperating nicely. It's keeping on concentrating and I'll start washing it tomorrow.

I'll let you know about its properties as soon as I know more.

The water I use: From a room dehumidifier (an air contitioner could be used as well). This water is soft (no chalk) and comparable to destilled water. I filter it and cook it to get rid of fungus spores that are usually in such water. PH is about 4.5.

What I did:
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1. Mix Sodium Carbonate with water until PH is about 9.5 to 10.78. Dissolve completely! (only little is required, maybe a teaspoon for 1L, don't overshoot!)

2. Add ordinary Sea Salt, like about 50g per Liter. Dissolve completely.

3. Let rest over night

4. Add about 50g Dead sea salt, dissolve.

5 Let sit over night

6. Wash repeatedly, as usual.

Maybe step 3 can be skipped.


Btw. I also tried to make Sodium Hydroxide with electrolysis, but that water stinks of chlor and poisonous chlorine gas is formed during the process. It takes several hours and requires pure graphite electrodes and a 36Vdc supply, where 4 9V batteries were depleted after 20 Minutes... the whole thing was a mess and waste of $.

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Dendritic Xylem
08-25-2014, 08:08 AM
Just fyi, sodium carbonate is not baking soda, it is washing soda or soda ash.
Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. :)

I recommend using Real Salt. It is a brand of salt mined from ancient deposits, so it isn't full of modern contaminants like conventional sea salt. Everyone thinks that dead sea salt is the best because it contains more minerals than other sea salt. But this means it also contains more mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic, etc.

You also might want to use distilled water instead of dehumidifier water. My dehumidifier creates water that measures 3-20 ppm on my tds meter. My window air conditioner condensor runoff measures around 15-40 ppm. My guess is that a good portion of those contaminants are nasty junk which coats the aluminum heat exchanger, as well as actual aluminum atoms. Store bought distilled water that i've tested has only measured 0-2 ppm.

Breemar
08-25-2014, 04:44 PM
Thanks for your contribution. I bought "destilled-like" water, something like 2$ for 2 Liters, but it seems to smell of chlor, which I can't stand. I guessed real destilled water is sold only in drugstores, for like 4$ a liter or so. As I also need to wash the Ormus/Magnesia milk, this is way too expensive. Thinking about to destill by myself, but until I got proper equipment the results may be unsufficent.

I read DSS has from the 11 "Ormus Elements" especially and almost exclusively Gold. I read Gold Ormus may be the choice for spiritual enlightment. but platin and esp. rhodium has much more body healing properties, and that in normal sea salt the platin group is highly present.

Mercury, Cadmium, Lead etc. may be esp. a problem of harbour polution, but food grade sea salt should not contain much of it, and so does DSS afaik. What scares me are things like fukushima or some submarine breakdowns, cause, unlike with mercury, just a tiny cluster of plutonium can bring you in deep troubles. So I buy only Atlantic food grade sea salt.

What's really amazing about the method mentioned is, after 12 Hours I still got about 66% Ormus ppt in that jar.

BTW. my DSS Package says:

Sodium < 100g
Potassium < 100-200g
Magnesium 60-120g
Calcium < 5g
Chloridum 100-500g
Bromium about 5g
Sulfas <10g

per kilogram.



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theFool
08-25-2014, 06:38 PM
Breemar, you may find this thread useful:
Full Isolation of Mono-Atomic Minerals from Dead Sea Salt (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3958-Full-Isolation-of-Mono-Atomic-Minerals-from-Dead-Sea-Salt)
It deals with DSS and sodium bicarbonate.

Here also, towards the end of the page, there are some experiments where DSS and sodium bicarbonate form a precipitate when heated only: http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3776-what-seperation-methods-work-in-the-wet-method/page2

Breemar
08-25-2014, 08:07 PM
Ok, thank you.

BTW. I have a question: Could it be that, during the washing process, the ppt is re-dissolving again and therefor become less? Or is it just less flakey and more concentrated?

I also added a bit of sodium carbonate to the washing water to prevent it from having such a low PH of 4.5, was that a bad idea?

Before the first wash I had about 300ml "milk", now after it only 150 ml anymore...

Before that 1st wash I accidently dropped like 5ml tap water into it and some clouds used to build up. One tiny 5mm cloud just kept on hovering in the clear area and did not sink down. Then it became smaller slowly and finally vanished. Is that normal?

theFool
08-25-2014, 08:34 PM
BTW. I have a question: Could it be that, during the washing process, the ppt is re-dissolved again and therefor become less? Or is it just less flakey and more concentrated? Yes, it can happen, especially with DSS. I believe that the ppt is redisolved. One time, I have attempted to precipitate it from the wash water but the results were not impressive (very few ppt appeared, I can't explain why). I think the answer is that the ppt redissolves in the wash water, but of course I am not sure about that explanation.



I also added a bit of sodium carbinate to the washing water to prevent it from having such a liw PH of 4.4, was that a bad idea? This sounds like a good idea. I usually put potassium carbonate in the wash water. It should keep the ppt undissolved (in theory at least).



Before the first wash I had about 300ml "milk", now after it only 150 ml anymore...

Before that 1st wash I accidently dropped like 5ml tap water into it and some clouds used to build. One tiny 5mm cloud just kept on hovering in the clear area and did not sink down. Then it became smaller slowly and finally vanished. Is that normal? Maybe the vanishing cloud is an indication that the ppt redissolves in the wash water. Try to precipitate the wash water with something stronger than soda (potassium carbonate or NaOH). If ppt appears, this would solve the riddle.

JDP
08-25-2014, 09:29 PM
First of all, I am a beginner. Where I live, it isn't so easy to buy Sodium hydroxide. In fact, the drug store that had it, refused to sell it to me, saying it could be used to make drugs, implying that I look like a crack junkie, which was extremly upsetting. Such things make me sick...

There was a time not too long ago when you could buy sodium hydroxide even in most supermarkets! It was called "Red Devil Lye":

http://apwikiwarriors.wikispaces.com/file/view/lye.bmp/60374338/lye.bmp

I still have a couple of these containers full of sodium hydroxide pellets as a memento of those good ol' days when you could still go shopping for most chemicals you needed at the supermarkets and the hardware stores (I even used to purchase pounds of lead wool and ingots, gallons of sulfuric acid, bags of sodium nitrate pellets, etc. at places like Sears Hardware and Lowe's right from the shelves!) Then the exaggerated paranoia of both the general public and the government against "chemicals" gradually took over and most of these useful products were taken off the shelves. Now you have to look for them in more specialized places (soap-making suppliers, ceramic/pottery supplies, chemical suppliers, etc.)

Breemar
08-26-2014, 01:48 AM
Absolutely. Although I have bought a drain opener that most likely contains lots of sodium hydroxide, the label doesn't say anymore what it's made of, only "< 5% anionic tensides". So what about the other 95% ?

Or H2O2, for Fisk Tank people from pet shops.

Some sayings never get old, like:

The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.

@theFool , thanks for the answer! Yes, I'll try that right now!

JDP
08-26-2014, 02:58 AM
Absolutely. Although I have bought a drain opener that most likely contains lots of sodium hydroxide, the label doesn't say anymore what it's made of, only "< 5% anionic tensides". So what about the other 95% ?

Sometimes you can find out the make-up of a given commercial product by checking on the Internet. The companies that manufacture the products might even have "safety data sheets" available for inspection at their web sites, where you can usually dig up info regarding the contents. For example, you can still buy potassium nitrate and sodium metabisulphite (a very useful reducer) in the form of "stump removers" at most hardware stores, but sometimes the companies that manufacture these products do not specify on the labels which of these two chemicals they use for their particular brand, you have to dig this info up by looking around.


Or H2O2, for Fisk Tank people from pet shops.

Another place where you can still find the more concentrated solutions of hydrogen peroxide: hydroponic supplies. Whenever I can find it, I buy gallons of 29% hydrogen peroxide in such places. This chemical, when mixed with distilled vinegar, is extremely useful to dissolve some metals, specially lead. Saves from having to use nitric acid for this purpose, which is the more usual solvent for lead, and is nowadays more difficult to procure than hydrogen peroxide.

Dendritic Xylem
08-26-2014, 09:05 AM
Thanks for your contribution. I bought "destilled-like" water, something like 2$ for 2 Liters, but it seems to smell of chlor, which I can't stand. I guessed real destilled water is sold only in drugstores, for like 4$ a liter or so. As I also need to wash the Ormus/Magnesia milk, this is way too expensive.
If you live in the United States you can get distilled water from walmart and most grocery stores for about $1 per gallon. It should not smell like chlorine.



I read DSS has from the 11 "Ormus Elements" especially and almost exclusively Gold. I read Gold Ormus may be the choice for spiritual enlightment. but platin and esp. rhodium has much more body healing properties, and that in normal sea salt the platin group is highly present.
The "ormus elements" you seek are in VERY small concentrations compared to the large quantity of calcium and magnesium hydroxides that are precipitated in the process. Most Americans are very deficient in magnesium. So it is not surprising that they would experience healing when consuming magnesium. The same goes for the ormus experiments on plant growth. Magnesium is very important in the chlorophyll molecule. So plants grow much better when they are supplemented with magnesium. For some reason the new ormus cult likes to ignore basic nutritional data and blame the benefits on a new form of exotic matter which few of them even understand.

There is something special and alchemical about precipitating mineral salts from natural sources, and it is my opinion that the relatively new ormus hypothesis is filled with misinterpretations of a real phenomenon. 99% of ormus researchers seem to just regurgitate the same old David Hudson and Barry Carter info unfortunately. So take what you read with a grain of salt ;)



Mercury, Cadmium, Lead etc. may be esp. a problem of harbour polution, but food grade sea salt should not contain much of it, and so does DSS afaik. What scares me are things like fukushima or some submarine breakdowns, cause, unlike with mercury, just a tiny cluster of plutonium can bring you in deep troubles. So I buy only Atlantic food grade sea salt.
It's not just harbours that are polluted. Humans have been continuously dumping toxic contaminants at an industrial level for well over 100 years. Do you really think the bays are magically going to contain all those toxins for centuries? I have personally extracted metallic lead from atlantic sea salt using organic polythiocarbonates, pH swings, and roasting of the precipitates in the presence of carbon monoxide.



BTW. my DSS Package says:

Sodium < 100g
Potassium < 100-200g
Magnesium 60-120g
Calcium < 5g
Chloridum 100-500g
Bromium about 5g
Sulfas <10g

per kilogram.
Those are the elements that are present in abundant amounts. There are far more elements present in trace amounts, but the manufacturer isn't required to label them. You probably wouldn't buy it if they did.
Here's a cautionary tale about consuming dead sea salt precipitates...
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/cautionary.htm

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I just want you and others to be careful. The ormus fad is causing many new amateurs to jump into chemistry, and then haphazardly consume the products of their experiments. :eek:

Breemar
08-26-2014, 01:55 PM
@Dendritic Xylem,

I agree with most of what you say. Tho, to stay below a PH 10.78 is exactly for the purpose of leaving the heavy metals in the water and make sure they won't become part of the ppt.

Also, any street with a lot traffic releases high amounts of lead and cadmium that we absorb trough our lungs. Also, tooth fillings may be a constant source of mercury poisoning. Continous heavy metal detoxing is mandatory, regardless of Ormus Ingestion.

I am using a combo of Coreander (best fresh leaves, otherwise powdered seeds) and sulfur-containing food such as garlic and/or eggs. The Coreander frees the metals and the sulfur binds them so they end up in the toilet.

That said, sulfur and ORMEs should not be mixed, so one should alternate the two therapies.

The DSS warning is from Barrys Site, so should I now believe it, or not? DSS does however ckearly have healing properties when applied topically. And as far as I see, cooking with sea salt and a little DSS seems to have healing properties as well.

There are so many fears and sorrows in this world, and they cause a negative and hopeless mood that makes people real sick. So, as I will die anyway, I would rather ingest DSS than any Pills from an Industry that profits from disease only. DSS on the other hand is traded as table salt and medicine since thousands of years.

@JDP, I actually bought 30% h2o2 from the pet shop, 17$ for a liter. Tho, everything is real expensive around here. But ATM. I am happy with Sodium Carbonate, since it is rather harmless. There's a thread somewhere here that says, many technical chemicals such as hydrochloric acid are produced in a process that involves mercury. So, I'd be rather careful. Anyway real small amounts may not kill you, although the blood-brain barrier gets damaged by mercury, but is most likely already damaged in anybody due to environmental mercury.

Breemar
08-26-2014, 05:44 PM
Ok, today I was decanting the water the third time. but before I added new Water, I used to shake the ppt intesively. Now after a few hours I still got almost twice the volume of ppt compared to before.

It seems, at least partially, the loss was caused by a reductuon of the fluffyness rather than by redisolving.
I do however get a more translucent color of the ppt, compared to the milky white I had before the 1st wash.

Breemar
08-27-2014, 03:00 AM
I have a general question:

Is it ok to boil the percipitate after the last wash and before ingestion, for a few minutes?
Or will this kill the Ormus?

I ask because of the DSS it gets a little bit of a fishy or let's say beach smell, and I guess some bacteria could grow when the salt is once washed out.

Dendritic Xylem
08-27-2014, 04:42 AM
I agree with most of what you say. Tho, to stay below a PH 10.78 is exactly for the purpose of leaving the heavy metals in the water and make sure they won't become part of the ppt.
I kept my precipitations below pH 7.5 and still was able to extract lead from it. Your info came from the "gilcrest precipitate" idea (another unscientific term made up by the ormus crowd as far as I can tell). In my experience, as well as most others, there are no universal laws concerning precise pH ranges for certain heavy metals to precipitate 100% completely in every situation. Variables such as temperature, ion concentration, and ion composition can drastically change the precipitation dynamics within a solution. But even when you actually do know the pH it should drop at, it is still often difficult to obtain full 100% precipitation of the target element. Especially when dealing with "dirty" solutions containing many different elements.


The DSS warning is from Barrys Site, so should I now believe it, or not? DSS does however ckearly have healing properties when applied topically. And as far as I see, cooking with sea salt and a little DSS seems to have healing properties as well.
I didn't say Barry's site was bad, I said that most ormus researchers havent ventured further than that site as well as Hudsons lectures. Anyway, the article I posted wasn't written by Barry. It was written by someone who tried something similar to what you are trying and had very negative side effects. Choose to ignore it if you like.


There are so many fears and sorrows in this world, and they cause a negative and hopeless mood that makes people real sick. So, as I will die anyway, I would rather ingest DSS than any Pills from an Industry that profits from disease only. DSS on the other hand is traded as table salt and medicine since thousands of years.
It's good that you avoid pills/pharmaceuticals. I do as well :)
I don't think it's bad to consume dead sea salt, because you never take that much due to the nature of it and it's strong taste. But we are not talking about consuming raw sea salt. We are talking about consuming concentrated mineral precipitates extracted from sea salt.


I won't argue with you anymore. Good luck with your experiments.

Breemar
08-27-2014, 06:41 AM
I didn't think you were argueing. I'm glad you contribute a sceptical view. It may in fact be possible that certain people react allergic on DSS Ormus. I have to say I think this person had an overdose. IMHO a humming sound is a sign of an overdose. DSS Ormus can be extremly potent. In gardens people use half a cup on 100m2 per year. This guy took one tablespoon each day for two weeks.

I certainly agree, when there are negative symptoms, one should drasticly reduce the dosage.

Thank you for pointing me to that article because, even if I am careful with doses, I didn't know how strong DSS Ormus can get.

I however disagree with your statenent that ingesting Ormus means ingesting a mineral concentrate: I only add about 2 Tablespoons of DSS to the solution and get about 2 dl Ormus milk from it, from which I would eat half a teaspoon per day as a max, as a test dose. So it cannot be that much. Probably I'd even start on a drop level.There are reports about one drop in the water for a pot plant caused the plant to grow like crazy.

So, pls excuse me for my ignorance. Even if I consider this warning seriously, I need to think positive because I had serious health problems when I lately studied too much conspiracy theories and other negative data.



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