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Nibiru
01-09-2015, 06:22 PM
Philosophically speaking.. Once our 'subject/matter' has been transmuted, did its former nature ever exist or has it always been 'gold'?

Kiorionis
01-09-2015, 09:19 PM
With my current understanding of things, our subject matter's former nature always exists, because that former nature is rooted in non-existence :P
At this point everything is malleable!

Say we have 'Lead'. Lead necessarily needs 'three qualities' in order to maintain its Lead-ness. These qualities aren't the structure of the Lead, but they are what create the structure of Lead (the Forth thing, Form). To define transmutation, I would say it's the manipulation of the quality and ratio of the 'three qualities' in a substance -- Lead -- so that it exhibits its highest state, or perfection -- Gold. The quality through the degrees of fire (manure, water-bath, sand-bath, etc.), and the ratio seems to depend on how good your Minecraft (Mind-craft?) skills are. . .

The structure doesn't change unless the qualities contained within change first (whether it be oil, spirit of wine, or salt). Because everything is built on one foundation, a new foundation changes the structure of the house on top of it. Or the shell breaks and everything dissolves. Who knows ;)

But this explanation is me processing the internal work I've been doing lately. Don't know how it would translate into external labwork.

Awani
01-09-2015, 10:55 PM
Good one...


or has it always been 'gold'?

If we are talking symbolically then I think so, and if we are talking spiritually then also yes.

But recently I have come to the realisation that what we call spiritual/non-practical alchemy... what we call mind-alchemy is physical alchemy. Because there is no difference between the two at all. The difference is our failure to see the thing right there, in front of us... that mind and matter are the same... that lead and gold are the same. And the more different they are the more similar they are, and the more similar they are the further apart they become... and when they have achieved the greatest distance between them they meet again because everything is a circle... even a straight line.

That is why we do not need to transmute, transform... change... lead into gold. Lead is gold. We are gold. Everything is already perfected.


A man said to the Buddha, “I want Happiness.”
Buddha said, first remove “I”, that’s ego,
then remove “want”, that’s desire.
See now you are left with only Happiness. - source unknown

So in order to transmute lead into gold... just remove the lead.


or has it always been 'gold'?

Always.


and the ratio seems to depend on how good your Minecraft (Mind-craft?) skills are. . .

Excatly! (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3813-Minecraft)

:cool:

Ghislain
01-10-2015, 07:28 AM
Philosophically speaking.. Once our 'subject/matter' has been transmuted, did its former nature ever exist or has it always been 'gold'?

Using the word "Philosophically" makes me think of something that has a rational argument and what I believe, to most others, has no rational argument.

On a few journeys now I think I have seen what is, it is amazing, but now it seems so distant.

I had to tell myself, while on the journey, that no matter how I feel later I know what I am seeing now is real; I find that difficult now as all I can remember is snippets and the fact that I told myself to remember it was real, but I trust myself.

So there can only be one answer to the question above, there is only one true nature and gold doesn't begin to describe it, other than perhaps a metaphor if you regard gold as the highest achievable.

Kiorionis mentions Mind-craft and to that I would agree, but I would prefer to call it a mind-fuck.

Even though I take this out of context I believe Dev nailed it with...


The difference is our failure to see the thing right there, in front of us...

However I would say the difficulty instead of the difference.

And the word "see"...how do you see something that has no need for eyes?

Perhaps in the minds<-for want of a better word) eye.

Ghislain

Andro
01-10-2015, 09:23 AM
The ratio seems to depend on how good your Minecraft (Mind-craft?) skills are. . .

The Transmutation of Mentals :)


And the more different they are the more similar they are, and the more similar they are the further apart they become...
And when they have achieved the greatest distance between them they meet again because everything is a circle... Even a straight line.

And maybe that's the key to How To Implement Change (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3622-How-To-Implement-Change)...

Nibiru
01-10-2015, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the responses. IMO a True transmutation would work beyond any conceivable bounds of space and time. Once a matter has transmuted in this manner I would think it would be much further reaching than presently imaginable.

Nibiru
04-04-2016, 06:57 PM
http://i.imgur.com/EcpjTNJ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BoK9K71.jpg

Measurement/Darkness/Lead-------------------------------Unity/Light/Gold

Andro
04-04-2016, 09:14 PM
And that's the actual meaning of "The End Of Time" :)


http://i.imgur.com/EcpjTNJ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BoK9K71.jpg

Measurement/Darkness/Lead-------------------------------Unity/Light/Gold

Ghislain
04-05-2016, 05:03 AM
Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fl.rgbimg.com%2Fcache1nO2f4%2Fusers %2Fj%2Fjo%2Fjohnnyberg%2F600%2FmjZ2aoo.jpg&f=1

Ghislain

Salazius
04-05-2016, 10:17 AM
Everything is nothing expressed as a temporarily mutable something.

Nibiru
04-07-2016, 11:32 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys, we seem to be sharing a similar vision :)

Perhaps Lead is Gold, or to quote Salazius "It appears that Unity is never lost."

I recently ran across this quote that seems to support what I'm attempting to relay:

Mircea Eiliade speaks to the transformative power found outside of ordinary time. He says:

the Philosopher’s Stone realized this miracle (alchemy), as it eliminated the interval of time which separated the present condition of an imperfect (crude) metal from its final perfected condition when it would become gold. The stone achieved transmutation almost immediately – it superceded time.

Lead is one of the most malleable metals, could this possibly be a clue as to potential misconceptions concerning the Nature of Time? Perhaps the concept of Time may not be as concrete as we've been Lead to believe...

Salazius
04-08-2016, 11:18 AM
Mercury is even more malleable.
Lead is not lead but is lead anyway.
Gold is not unity at all, nor perfection, just a symbol, not just actual perfection. Pale reflection of something higher ...

Perfection is nothing. Something is always able to putrefy and "die". Even the highest Stone ever possible to produce, it is alway susceptible to be destructed.

Unity is never lost because it is nothing. You can only lost something.

Nibiru
04-09-2016, 12:40 AM
Mercury is even more malleable.
Lead is not lead but is lead anyway.
Gold is not unity at all, nor perfection, just a symbol, not just actual perfection. Pale reflection of something higher ...

Perfection is nothing. Something is always able to putrefy and "die". Even the highest Stone ever possible to produce, it is alway susceptible to be destructed.

Unity is never lost because it is nothing. You can only lost something.

Thanks :) Keep in mind I was only speaking philosophically of 'Lead' and 'Gold' as references to above and below polarities concerning the concept of Unity and Separation. I was also using 'Lead' as a double analogy to represent Saturn/Chronos/Time. The image of the clock and glyph for the Sun would have better effect if Superimposed upon One another. I was hoping to convey a Transmutation of Separation into a state of Unity Consciousness. This realization requires stepping outside the bounds of time-space-matter or separation. It also, once realized, shows that the separation/Lead never existed at all but was merely an illusion of separation overlaying the Truth of the paradox of time/no-time, Unity/Seperation, spirit/matter, etc.. How they are One but None, seen as opposing yet of the same Source.

Nibiru
10-19-2016, 04:57 PM
After quite some Time with no sleep I began to ponder this concept a bit more and decided to share my Vision with friends, below is a cut/paste of what I attempted to convey.









I just have had what I believe to be a realization / Epiphany in the middle of the night and before I forgot it I felt that I should go ahead and write it down for Further Future contemplation.

Is it possible that what most considered as transmutation is
only an Earthly form of aided Evolution and not a completely UNIVERSAL aspect of the REAL Potential that such an act could Potentially Create?

IMO TRUE Transmutation goes far beyond what we hear or read of concerning the Perfection of metals, evolution of our bodies, minds, and Spirits, etc. Is it possible that Universal Transmutation could actually effect 'matters' that are beyond the physical Sphere or even psychological level(when Jungian Spiritual concepts of the Alchemical Path are considered)? IMO a Transmutation of this Kind could easily Transcend our concept of 'Reality' and even potentially posses the Ability to EVOLVE Matters/Materials/Works beyond the notion of Time and Space. This notion could just as easily effect entire races, species, countries, WorLds, solar systems, galaxies, perhaps the entire UNIverse, and even those that are worshiped as GODS.

What actually LEAD me to consider this was a personal method of simple psychological/emotional Transmutation that I've found my self and recently been using more frequently and at times without premeditation. It relates in a way to the concept of the glass half full/empty analogy that most are familiar with. Regardless of if it is currently Truth or just a method of personal comfort for my own psychological and emotional wellbeing, I still choose to follow the REASONING I'm about to Relate. It concerns the NATURE of Duality, good/bad, righteous/evil, Light/Dark, etc. Rather than carry the emotional burden of constant reminders of the InJustice, Cruelty, and Suffering that exists HERE, I've Chosen to attempt to SEE ALL 'Negative' situations and matters for whatever their opposite POSITIVE attribute may be and how it could in some way, maybe actually Exists in some portion(however small) within said circumstances. This concept is revealed when ONE contemplates the Yin Yang Symbol while considering how the Dark portion contains a SEED of Light while the same holds True concerning the White portion of the image with its Seed of Darkness.. Once I'm able to Recognize the GOOD that such negative situations and beings contain, I then precede to exert EFFORT to convince myself of this possible reality Fractal. I hadn't realized it before but this personal act of calming may actually be the KEY to very HIGH Alchemical Truths that are rarely spoken/written of. This method of contemplation, if the science of how our Thoughts have the Ability to effect reality is properly Understood(check Observer Effect, observation of LIGHT particles/Waves, etc.), then a True 'Stone' that has reached the 'Multiplication' Level could very well CHANGE/EVOLVE EVERYTHING!! Transcending TIME, Nature, physics concepts, REALITY, etc...

If something of this Nature were to Actually occur, I doubt that most would even Recognize the unfathomable CHANGE that had become MANIFEST through the Process, due to the fact than in a moment Faster than the shortest instance, Everything as well as Nothing have been EVOLVED on every Level conceivable as well as that which remains unknown/unfathomable through any form of intellectual Reasoning. Best way for me to relay this idea is to consider Dreams and the way their manifestation, characters, and Events occur Spontaneously once we've began to DREAM.

When one gains the full ability to apply this form of reasoning to every situation without effort, then IMO they are performing a True Act of Magick and actually causing the nature of existence/reality to Evolve Towards this Higher Realm of UNDERSTANDING and Being. It could somehow relate to the 'changing of the ages' as well, such as The Bronze, Industrial, or Age of Pieces < Aquarius, the GOLDEN AGES, etc.. Its interesting to contemplate how incomplete quite a bit of our COLLECTIVE history actually is. Lost Civilizations and continents, Messiah Figures, sudden and unexplained extinctions/disappearances perhaps even the TRANSCENDENCE of entire species with no REAL explanations as to how or even why such things happen. Anyway just thought I'd attempt to Save and even Share these Ideas with 'Those With Ears To HEAR' or at least listen with an open-mind. Well I feel I've relayed as much of this VISION as I'm capable of during the PRESENT Moment. Perhaps there will be more consideration in the Future concerning these ideas or possibly even potential REALIZATIONS of a TRUTH soon to be AWAKENED, MANIFESTED, and finally revealed and comprehended by ALL. WHO Knows!?

So when we ponder the Thought that our MINDS have been proven scientifically to affect 'Reality at levels that are even capable of transcending what we experience as space and time, we are then prepared to consider something of a totally different concept in contrast to what most have been taught. My simple definition of the Ancient ART of Alchemy using my Limited Understanding is such: Alchemy is an effort on the part of the Artist working in UNITY with Nature and forces overseeing our GROWTH, to find a way to recognize UNIVERSAL SPIRIT or LIFE-FORCE so that we can then Conceive of Methods towards attracting, containing, accumulating, and Finally Utilizing said Spirit for the purpose of Healing, Growth, and finally the EVOLUTION/TRANSMUTATION of the Matter or Materials that we are HOPING to CHANGE. OK my blurry eyes are telling me its time to lay it back down and get more rest. Thanks for Listening to my late night ramblings! ;)

If any Truth exists within these concepts then there can only be 1 possible conclusion IMO, What WILL Evolve has already done so once the TRANSCENDENCE of TIME has become REALIZED, its only our intellect and Eyes are just a tad bit late to SEE IT as IT occurs.

If Alchemy is the Art of Evolution, then it is also the art of TIME/Saturn/Chronos. In Truth Time is the 1 provable and constant form of Transmutation that is constantly occurring throughout Nature and All observable Reality Structures, given the easily observable fact that All is eventually Evolved through the PASSAGE of Time...

Or in other Words, if we can conceive these notions, then 1 conclusive fact remains IMO..

* * * LEAD is already GOLD!!

All that remains is for US to Wake Up and finally open our EYES ;)

Awani
10-19-2016, 11:41 PM
LEAD is already GOLD!!

This is what I have been "preaching" (openly) for the last few months. LOL. So yeah... I think there is potential in this concept for sure.

I'd go even further and say: without gold, no lead. ;) Which in a way utterly changes the game... in my view.

"The branch might seem like the fruit's origin: in fact, the branch exist because of the fruit." - Rumi

:cool:

JDP
10-20-2016, 02:11 AM
This is what I have been "preaching" (openly) for the last few months. LOL. So yeah... I think there is potential in this concept for sure.

When you have "preached" long and hard enough to convince pawn shops, jewelers, precious metals dealers of any kind, let me know, as I have many pounds of lead I would just love to sell them at roughly $1300 an ounce ;)

Nibiru
03-03-2018, 02:52 PM
..another brief contemplation concerning the concept of the more mundane aspects of a physical transmutation. If an Artist were ever to actually reach a Level capable of performing an evolution of the metals, One would think any need to do so would actually Vanish. If we had been Gifted with such access to abundance, why the need to create valuable metals with so many other sources of wealth available? Other than as a mileStone of progress it would seem to be unessary as far as material Abundance is concerned imo.

Aham
03-03-2018, 07:04 PM
..another brief contemplation concerning the concept of the more mundane aspects of a physical transmutation. If an Artist where ever to actually reach a Level capable of performing an evolution of the metals, One would think any need to do so would actually Vanish. If we had been Gifted with such access to abundance, why the need to create valuable metals with so many other sources of wealth available? Other than as a mileStone of progress it would seem to be unessary as far as material Abundance is concerned imo.

Nibiru, thank you for your post. It allowed me to discover the gems in this thread. :)

Given some recent experiences/revelations, I tend to agree that the transmutation affects the artist as much as the metal. I guess the point of the transmutation could be to show the artist in a physical form that the stone has been perfected even though the artist may no longer have a need to transmute metals.

Nibiru
03-03-2018, 09:04 PM
Hi Aham

I'm happy you were able to find something of value in this thread :)


I guess the point of the transmutation could be to show the artist in a physical form that the stone has been perfected even though the artist may no longer have a need to transmute metals.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter as well.

Schmuldvich
03-03-2018, 09:23 PM
Why would anyone ever have a "need" to transmute metals, and how would one "no longer have a need" to do such...?

elixirmixer
03-03-2018, 09:29 PM
To be able to afford a life of peaceful meditation while still taking care of the financial situation of the other members of the family who have not yet reached Nirvana.

The need would stop for a person who did not have family, and who has reached this place, since that person would be free from all earthly desires, including the need to purchase things from markets.

IMO

JDP
03-03-2018, 10:06 PM
..another brief contemplation concerning the concept of the more mundane aspects of a physical transmutation. If an Artist were ever to actually reach a Level capable of performing an evolution of the metals, One would think any need to do so would actually Vanish. If we had been Gifted with such access to abundance, why the need to create valuable metals with so many other sources of wealth available? Other than as a mileStone of progress it would seem to be unessary as far as material Abundance is concerned imo.

These are all romanticized ideas, with little to do with cold & hard reality and how people really are and think. The fact is that the alchemists did not want anybody but them to take advantage of this knowledge. These are examples of the best reasoning they could come up with to keep alchemy a secret from the majority of mankind:

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4950-Why-make-The-Stone&p=45336#post45336

Plus I can tell you from personal experience that being successful at obtaining artificial precious metals (through "chymical" methods), far from making you want to quit doing it in fact only keeps on encouraging you to succeed in this endeavor even more! The more you succeed, the more real processes you want to discover & investigate. It's addictive as hell! There is also a great feeling of intellectual satisfaction for having succeeded where so many have failed. So, finding the Stone and its much more powerful transmutational properties is pretty much the ultimate intellectual "high". The only people who try to convince themselves that they somehow will want to "quit" making precious metals if they find the Stone are in fact those who don't have it, so it is no wonder that they can afford to be so pious-sounding. Once they have it things change very drastically, though. The healthy & natural instinct for self-preservation and personal advantage kick in and take over the romantic notions. Cold, hard, objective, empirical, factual reality triumphs over romanticism/idealism/dreams/utopias/fairy-tales. It's the true natural order of things, the unapologetic, in-your-face, no "ifs" or "buts" reality of our world and society. He who has the Stone will want to take as much advantage of it as possible, unless he is insane and suicidal and instead chooses a life of unnecessary misery and hardships.

Kiorionis
03-03-2018, 10:27 PM
So by that logic:

Money = Happiness

JDP
03-03-2018, 11:24 PM
So by that logic:

Money = Happiness

Money = one of the several things that helps Happiness

Ghislain
03-04-2018, 12:10 AM
The way you speak JDP shows how little you know of others. If that is how you feel yourself then fine
but don't judge everyone with your own disappointments, it just isn't the case.

You'll get there, just keep searching and look out for what the universe is trying to tell you if you
just stop and listen for a while. It will mess with your head if you ignore it.

Ghislain

JDP
03-04-2018, 12:20 AM
The way you speak JDP shows how little you know of others. If that is how you feel yourself then fine
but don't judge everyone with your own disappointments, it just isn't the case.

You'll get there, just keep searching and look out for what the universe is trying to tell you if you
just stop and listen for a while. It will mess with your head if you ignore it.

Ghislain

Just "keeping it real, yo!", as the kids say. But if you want to fantasize about how people, society and the world really are, go ahead and do so. When you finally (if ever) get the Stone, then you come back and tell me if you are really going to entertain those romantic notions for much longer instead of taking advantage of this "goose that lays golden eggs" that fell into your hands.

Awani
03-04-2018, 12:33 AM
When you finally (if ever) get the Stone, then you come back and tell me if you are really going to entertain those romantic notions for much longer instead of taking advantage of this "goose that lays golden eggs" that fell into your hands.

It might not occur to you, since you are deep into your own viewpoint... but just because you are a certain type of human being doesn't mean everyone else is... and thank god for that.


Money = one of the several things that helps Happiness

This only shows to me that you don't have that much money... From my experience money is never part of what makes anyone happy, and I know you do not agree to this, and you will probably say something along the lines of "tell that to the starving in Somalia". Sad to say your tunnel vision of the world, of happiness and of life in general might serve you good and make you happy. Live your life anyway you wish, but imagine - for fun - that there are other ways to look at reality... I do hope one day a trillion dollars land in your lap. I am sure they will comfort you on your death bed.

https://image.ibb.co/bPVFcn/Bc_AGG7y_Ig_AAWNa8.jpg

However I don't take your statements seriously, since you are a trickster of sorts... otherwise why would you have a 100 % baloney face (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1089-Secrecy-amp-Alchemical-Initiations&p=55719#post55719)?

:p

Aham
03-04-2018, 01:08 AM
These are all romanticized ideas, with little to do with cold & hard reality and how people really are and think.

JDP, if you're right the rest of us are screwed... hoping it's the other way :)

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 01:29 AM
Have you ever wondered how the mechanics of transmutation work? If we are transmuting Lead into Gold then we are talking about fission but if we are transmutimng Silver into Gold then this is fusion. Can the Stone work in both ways?

Alchemists of old usually made use of fission which means that the Stone must have been radioactive in some form.

Kibric
03-04-2018, 01:43 AM
The fact is that the alchemists did not want anybody but them to take advantage of this knowledge. These are examples of the best reasoning they could come up with to keep alchemy a secret from the majority of mankind:
Damn skippy :D


Plus I can tell you from personal experience that being successful at obtaining artificial precious metals (through "chymical" methods), far from making you want to quit doing it in fact only keeps on encouraging you to succeed in this endeavor even more! The more you succeed, the more real processes you want to discover & investigate.
with your investigative spirit so far

This is a projection of your character

It's addictive as hell! There is also a great feeling of intellectual satisfaction for having succeeded where so many have failed.So, finding the Stone and its much more powerful transmutational properties is pretty much the ultimate intellectual "high".


The only people who try to convince themselves that they somehow will want to "quit" making precious metals if they find the Stone are in fact those who don't have it, so it is no wonder that they can afford to be so pious-sounding
conjecture, some of us have abundant sources of precious metals already and have no need to


Cold, hard, objective, empirical, factual reality triumphs over romanticism/idealism/dreams/utopias/fairy-tales.
Its not a competition


It's the true natural order of things, the unapologetic, in-your-face, no "ifs" or "buts" reality of our world and society. He who has the Stone will want to take as much advantage of it as possible, unless he is insane and suicidal and instead chooses a life of unnecessary misery and hardships.
People do take advantage, how wise they are about doing so though ?

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/v1492787188/articles/2013/03/22/less-is-moo-the-genius-of-gary-larson/less-is-moo-the-genius-of-gary-larson-image_fvmowt.png

Kiorionis
03-04-2018, 01:47 AM
Have you ever wondered how the mechanics of transmutation work? If we are transmuting Lead into Gold then we are talking about fission but if we are transmutimng Silver into Gold then this is fusion. Can the Stone work in both ways?

Interesting question TI.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 01:59 AM
My honest opinion is that the stone can't transmute both ways. It is either fission stone or fusion stone.

Dendritic Xylem
03-04-2018, 02:31 AM
My honest opinion is that the stone can't transmute both ways. It is either fission stone or fusion stone.

If the stone can turn all base metals into gold...then it may not be directly adding/subtracting protons/neutrons.

Let's pretend that all matter has an ethereal component which the Alchemists would call "spiritual".
This spiritual body exists in the same space as the material body which it occupies.
What if the spiritual body determines the blueprint of the material body?
The physical body just being a condensed material representation of the ethereal/spiritual body.

It could explain how/why a substance like the Stone could create gold from numerous metals.
You mix gold with Mercurius to obtain the 'blueprint' of gold. Then cook it and make stronger.
The spiritual blueprint of gold is fixed into the matter. Then the matter is used to imprint onto other metals.

Doesn't sound very scientific, but I really don't know how a tiny amount of an exotic substance could transmute numerous elements, specifically to gold, by adding or subtracting nucleons.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 02:46 AM
It doesn't make sense why the stone should transmute numerous elements into Gold. Most of the recipes talk about mercury into gold or lead into gold. The other big problem is that of mass. The Stone is supposed to weigh much more than Gold which means that the starting matter must have been beyond gold and lead on the periodic table probably somewhere around or after uranium.
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/04/03/is-uranium-the-heaviest-natura/

The other interesting detail is multiplication in projection by the power of 10 by repetition. If fission is the cause of transmutation then multiplication process is what we today call nuclear enrichment.

Our Sulfur?
https://s17.postimg.org/5p3p41q7j/f6e4a6f1c038e7a9a35474dff894a5021381977644_full.jp g (https://postimages.org/)

Dendritic Xylem
03-04-2018, 03:05 AM
But does it make sense that the stone would transmute via conventional fission/fusion?
How can a few grains of stone transmute many grams (kilos?) of gold through direct nuclear process?
Wouldn't there need to be more mass present to provide the required nuclear particles?

Of course, this is all assuming the alchemical transmutation stories from history are true. Who knows.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 03:08 AM
The quantity depends on it's enrichment. More radioactive it is the more will it transmute. The first stone doesn't transmute at all, it was called the false prophet.

Another interesting clue. After the stone is sufficiently enriched or multiplied it exhibits certain pyrophoric characteristics. Glows in the dark like burning ember or firestone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrophoricity

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 03:18 AM
You can't get heavier than this:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/04/03/is-uranium-the-heaviest-natura/

Kiorionis
03-04-2018, 03:22 AM
You can't get heavier than this:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/04/03/is-uranium-the-heaviest-natura/



Are you sure?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_MzWF8YLhY

JDP
03-04-2018, 03:32 AM
It might not occur to you, since you are deep into your own viewpoint... but just because you are a certain type of human being doesn't mean everyone else is... and thank god for that.



This only shows to me that you don't have that much money... From my experience money is never part of what makes anyone happy, and I know you do not agree to this, and you will probably say something along the lines of "tell that to the starving in Somalia". Sad to say your tunnel vision of the world, of happiness and of life in general might serve you good and make you happy. Live your life anyway you wish, but imagine - for fun - that there are other ways to look at reality... I do hope one day a trillion dollars land in your lap. I am sure they will comfort you on your death bed.

https://image.ibb.co/bPVFcn/Bc_AGG7y_Ig_AAWNa8.jpg

However I don't take your statements seriously, since you are a trickster of sorts... otherwise why would you have a 100 % baloney face (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1089-Secrecy-amp-Alchemical-Initiations&p=55719#post55719)?

:p

I am neither rich nor poor, I am just an average person, so I know very well how the average person thinks and feels, and I tell you that nobody in his right mind would quit transmuting metals into silver & gold if they had the Stone in their possession. Life constantly demands money, whether you like it or not, it is a fact. So, the Stone would come very handy in helping improve the quality of life for anyone fortunate enough to possess it. That's the real reason all seekers wanted it in the first place, they certainly did not spend so much time and money investigating how to make it just so that they could sit around doing nothing with it once they had found it.

PS: my "face" in the forums is a detector of baloney, not the baloney itself, but yours is a thing that is well known to grow out of rotting matter. (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1089-Secrecy-amp-Alchemical-Initiations&p=55720#post55720) :)

JDP
03-04-2018, 03:58 AM
Have you ever wondered how the mechanics of transmutation work? If we are transmuting Lead into Gold then we are talking about fission but if we are transmutimng Silver into Gold then this is fusion. Can the Stone work in both ways?

Alchemists of old usually made use of fission which means that the Stone must have been radioactive in some form.

You are of course assuming that the methods of the physicists are the only ones that can give results. Wrongo! I have made small amounts of silver and gold through "chymical" processes and I don't see where any of these humongous amounts of energy that the methods of the physicists require are supposedly absolutely necessary to accomplish transmutation. By entertaining the notions and theories of physics as the only possibility, you are in fact falling for the same mistake that the chemists have fallen, who think that "chemical reactions" cannot accomplish what the methods of physics can, and therefore conclude that transmutation, short of having recourse to "atom-smashers", is "impossible".

Regarding how the alchemists themselves envisioned transmutation as happening, there were two basic types:

1- The ones who saw it as the effect of the Stone on the "sulphurs" & "mercuries" of the base metals, altering them and becoming "purified" like those of silver & gold

2- The ones who held "corpuscular" notions and held that the red Stone must force the "parts" (i.e. the particles) of other metals to "contract" (i.e. to come closer together) and acquire the density of gold (besides its color and other characteristics), and the white Stone also forcing less dense metals, like tin, to contract and acquire the density (and other properties) of silver, while at the same time it forced the "parts" of more dense metals, like lead or mercury, to expand until they acquired the density (and other properties) of silver

JDP
03-04-2018, 04:15 AM
You can't get heavier than this:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/04/03/is-uranium-the-heaviest-natura/

This is heavier:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2Oc3A92XVk

Awani
03-04-2018, 04:34 AM
PS: my "face" in the forums is a detector of baloney, not the baloney itself, but yours is a thing that is well known to grow out of rotting matter. (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1089-Secrecy-amp-Alchemical-Initiations&p=55720#post55720) :)

LOL. Oh how ignorant you are of Amanita Muscaria... if someone looks at it they don't think what you claim... however, as I said before, your "face" is baloney 100 %... I am well-aware what you think it means... sadly that is not how it appears to others. On a personal note my house is filled with Amanitas, the country I am from is littered with them... it is a beautiful mushroom... and I don't mind from where it grows. WHEN people see my avatar they see two Amanitas dancing... when they see yours, they see 100 % baloney.

I can do this back and fort ALL day... it is so perfect... ha ha... and you have that avatar thanks to me. LOL. Oh the joy...


So, the Stone would come very handy in helping improve the quality of life for anyone fortunate enough to possess it.

The funny thing with alchemy is that because you have this approach, you will never have the Stone. Not sure if that is funny or sad.

:p

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 07:27 AM
You are of course assuming that the methods of the physicists are the only ones that can give results. Wrongo! I have made small amounts of silver and gold through "chymical" processes and I don't see where any of these humongous amounts of energy that the methods of the physicists require are supposedly absolutely necessary to accomplish transmutation. By entertaining the notions and theories of physics as the only possibility, you are in fact falling for the same mistake that the chemists have fallen, who think that "chemical reactions" cannot accomplish what the methods of physics can, and therefore conclude that transmutation, short of having recourse to "atom-smashers", is "impossible".

This is a long post so i will try to answer it in the shortest way possible.

You are talking about Coulomb barrier and huge ammount of energy required for transmutation which i also think is erroneous in certain conditions like in a plasma state.
My short take on it in order for Coulomb barrier to function properly a positive and negative particles are both necessary to be present in the atom in order to be in balance and able to create such a barrier. However in a plasma state negative charged particles or electrons are ripped apart from the atom and not present in the atom so the positive charged nucleus can't hold a positive charge alone and becomes:

1. either polarized like a magnet with both poles now activated
2. losses charge and becomes neutral

Whatever the case it appears that when the matter enters the state of plasma it losses the Coulomb barrier.

What i am proposing is that the blueprint operations of alchemy have a secret mechanic behind them.

For example heating a object at ever increasing temperatures in order to cause color changes is suspiciously reminiscent of allotropism.
The black stage or putrefying metals is suspiciously reminiscent of radioactive decay.
Transmuting heavier elements into lighter ones is suspiciously reminiscent of fission.
Multiplying the tincture in power by constantly repeating the same process is suspiciously reminiscent of nuclear enrichment.

JDP
03-04-2018, 08:18 AM
LOL. Oh how ignorant you are of Amanita Muscaria... if someone looks at it they don't think what you claim... however, as I said before, your "face" is baloney 100 %... I am well-aware what you think it means... sadly that is not how it appears to others. On a personal note my house is filled with Amanitas, the country I am from is littered with them... it is a beautiful mushroom... and I don't mind from where it grows. WHEN people see my avatar they see two Amanitas dancing... when they see yours, they see 100 % baloney.

I can do this back and fort ALL day... it is so perfect... ha ha... and you have that avatar thanks to me. LOL. Oh the joy...

What you think is only you alone; anyone else can plainly see it's not baloney itself shown in my avatar, but clearly a baloney detector. Nothing will alter that, just like nothing will alter the fact that your avatar shows a poisonous shroom that grows out of rotting matter. The joy is all mine. You are hoisted by your own petard! :)




The funny thing with alchemy is that because you have this approach, you will never have the Stone. Not sure if that is funny or sad.

:p

If that was true then no one would have it, as that is the ultimate intention/goal of everyone who seeks it. Some won't admit it, but it is so nonetheless. No one seeks this thing to then just do nothing with it.

JDP
03-04-2018, 08:48 AM
This is a long post so i will try to answer it in the shortest way possible.

You are talking about Coulomb barrier and huge ammount of energy required for transmutation which i also think is erroneous in certain conditions like in a plasma state.
My short take on it in order for Coulomb barrier to function properly a positive and negative particles are both necessary to be present in the atom in order to be in balance and able to create such a barrier. However in a plasma state negative charged particles or electrons are ripped apart from the atom and not present in the atom so the positive charged nucleus can't hold a positive charge alone and becomes:

1. either polarized like a magnet with both poles now activated
2. losses charge and becomes neutral

Whatever the case it appears that when the matter enters the state of plasma it losses the Coulomb barrier.

What i am proposing is that the blueprint operations of alchemy have a secret mechanic behind them.

For example heating a object at ever increasing temperatures in order to cause color changes is suspiciously reminiscent of allotropism.
The black stage or putrefying metals is suspiciously reminiscent of radioactive decay.
Transmuting heavier elements into lighter ones is suspiciously reminiscent of fission.
Multiplying the tincture in power by constantly repeating the same process is suspiciously reminiscent of nuclear enrichment.

There must be more than one mechanism to perform transmutations, otherwise alchemical and "chymical" transmutations would not happen, as they do not employ the huge amounts of energy that the methods of physics employ.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 09:03 AM
The methods of modern physic are not entirely correct because they believe in Coulumb barrier. You don't need huge ammount of energy for transmutation in my opinion if you discard the theory of Coulumb barrier as i explained.

JDP
03-04-2018, 09:27 AM
The methods of modern physic are not entirely correct because they believe in Coulumb barrier. You don't need huge ammount of energy for transmutation in my opinion if you discard the theory of Coulumb barrier as i explained.

Besides that (alleged) barrier, there is also the issue of the "electron shells" not allowing things to happen to the "nuclei" during "chemical reactions". Chemists believe that all changes among reacting substances happen in these electron levels, not at the level of the "nucleus". So no matter what reactions you employ, the changes will (supposedly) always happen at the electron level, not at the "nuclear" level, so no change of any (supposed) "element" can take place. The reacting "elements" will (supposedly) always retain their characteristics since their "nuclei" are not altered, only the outer "electron shells" are, and they always can go back to what they were before, so no true permanent change is achieved. Anyone who has performed "chymical" transmutations will have a chuckle at these "neat" little theories of chemistry. Chemists do think that they really have it all figured out... But as the old Judas Priest song says:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtuoFv4dcwM

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 09:35 AM
Besides that (alleged) barrier, there is also the issue of the "electron shells" not allowing things to happen to the "nuclei" during "chemical reactions". Chemists believe that all changes among reacting substances happen in these electron levels, not at the level of the "nucleus"...

You are so hasty to judge without paying attention to what i just said about the plasma state of matter. There are no electron shells in a plasma because they are all out and only nucleus is present in the center of the atom who is no longer positively charged because there are no negatively charged electrons around anymore!

JDP
03-04-2018, 10:01 AM
You are so hasty to judge without paying attention to what i just said about the plasma state of matter. There are no electron shells in a plasma because they are all out and only nucleus is present in the center of the atom who is no longer positively charged because there are no negatively charged electrons around anymore!

I know what you said, but no "chemical" reaction is considered to be able to achieve any such permanent removal of the electron shells. So, according to chemists no matter what "chemical" reactions you employ, all the apparent changes will only take place at the level of these electron shells.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 10:07 AM
Ok, you need to understand what the 4th state of matter called plasma actually is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94tReSbyPYc

JDP
03-04-2018, 10:41 AM
Ok, you need to understand what the 4th state of matter called plasma actually is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94tReSbyPYc

I know what it is, and notice that ordinary plasma (as the examples shown in the video) is not enough to cause transmutation. The "nuclei" still retain their properties, they do not overcome their mutual repulsion and "fuse" with one another, plus the electrons are still "floating" around this "soup", that's why it can conduct electricity. To break the alleged Coulumb "barrier" requires quite more:

http://burro.cwru.edu/academics/Astr221/StarPhys/coulomb.html

Alchemy & "chymistry" have nothing to do with such theories, since the energy levels at which they operate are much lower. Their "modus operandi" is to make some substances react with one another under certain conditions, which the chemists & physicists indiscriminately see as "chemical reactions" (and therefore only taking place at the "electron shell" level and do not generate enough energy to in any way affect the repulsion forces of the "nuclei"), and thus think is "impossible" precisely because of these fanciful theories they believe in.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 10:49 AM
This is where our opinions differ. From what i learned there are no repulsion forces between atom nuclei in a plasma state.
Plasma is neutral.

JDP
03-04-2018, 10:53 AM
This is where our opinions differ. From what i learned there are no repulsion forces between atom nuclei in a plasma state.
Plasma is neutral.

If ordinary plasma was enough to achieve transmutation obviously physicists would already have noticed it. Didn't you see in the video the examples of common plasma? Like neon signs or fluorescent light bulbs. Where are the transmuted "elements" here? Plasma itself is not enough to overcome these repulsion forces. Physicists estimate that you need temperatures like those at the core of the sun to be able to break through this repulsion barrier.

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 11:03 AM
If ordinary plasma was enough to achieve transmutation obviously physicists would already have noticed it. Didn't you see in the video the examples of common plasma? Like neon signs or fluorescent light bulbs. Where are the transmuted "elements" here?

Here they are!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/03/14/tiny-nuclear-reactions-inside-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/#4284f9856bd7

and here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/02/22/nasa-a-nuclear-reactor-to-replace-your-water-heater/#66da227938f6


Plasma itself is not enough to overcome these repulsion forces. Physicists estimate that you need temperatures like those at the core of the sun to be able to break through this repulsion barrier.

Their estimation is based on Coulomb barrier law calculations. Coulomb barrier doesn't exist in plasma. Isn't it funny that Sun is also in the 4th state of matter?

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 01:55 PM
Ordinary plasma (as the examples shown in the video) is not enough to cause transmutation. The "nuclei" still retain their properties, they do not overcome their mutual repulsion and "fuse" with one another

It is not easy for me to explain every facet of fusion phenomenon but this tidbit is of importance so i will try.

The question is how to fuse two atoms of the same element into a heavier one? For example:

8O16 + 8O16 = 16S32

The answer is to cube Oxygen by applying centripetal pressure through magnetic fields. The density of the new created element will be in proportion to the centripetal pressure applied.

Walter Russel applied exactly this method:
https://walterrussellblog.wordpress.com/category/transmutation/

Notice this sentence:

We found by shifting the shapes of the magnetic fields with our “transmutator” after heating our gas samples in the emission photospectrometer by running an electric current through the plasma and then allowing the heated gas to cool down in our magnetic field arrangement, we were able to demonstrate transmutations as identified by photo emission spectroscopy.

Other examples are:

https://s17.postimg.org/qctmaj0pr/Unbenannt.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

For more information look into his A New Concept Of The Universe book.

Nibiru
03-04-2018, 04:37 PM
Apparently the original Intention of this thread has flown right over the head of a few here and completly missed the Mark. I was using the term Transmutation in its Universal aspect and not to describe an 'archemical' process. Imo one who had Realized such a Universal Stone would of had to first themselves reached a very High Level of Evolution. A True Artist at this Level would no longer need to create metals illegally because they could just as easily or with even less energy and resources Create a Valuable painting, compose a song, chisel a statue from stone, invent a new mode of Transportation or Energy accumulation source, Heal a billionaire, etc...

PS, I'm a 40 year old vegan who hasnt eaten bologna in over 30 years. And my avatar displays the Birth of a Nebula :p

Awani
03-04-2018, 04:54 PM
The joy is all mine.

I know you are but what am I?

:p

True Initiate
03-04-2018, 05:36 PM
PS, I'm a 40 year old vegan who hasnt eaten bologna in over 30 years. And my avatar displays the Birth of a Nebula :)

Bologna? Did you meant lasagna? Or bolognese? I am really interested now!

Nibiru
03-04-2018, 05:54 PM
Bologna? Did you meant lasagna? Or bolognese? I am really interested now!

Lol :p

www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/how-baloney-got-phony/

JDP
03-04-2018, 08:33 PM
Here they are!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/03/14/tiny-nuclear-reactions-inside-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/#4284f9856bd7

and here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2013/02/22/nasa-a-nuclear-reactor-to-replace-your-water-heater/#66da227938f6



Their estimation is based on Coulomb barrier law calculations. Coulomb barrier doesn't exist in plasma. Isn't it funny that Sun is also in the 4th state of matter?

Evidently it does exist in common plasma, otherwise you would get a "chain reaction" like that in the core of the sun every time you switched on a neon light or a fluorescent light.

All those claims in the links are highly speculative and hardly proven.

JDP
03-04-2018, 08:54 PM
Apparently the original Intention of this thread has flown right over the head of a few here and completly missed the Mark. I was using the term Transmutation in its Universal aspect and not to describe an 'archemical' process. Imo one who had Realized such a Universal Stone would of had to first themselves reached a very High Level of Evolution. A True Artist at this Level would no longer need to create metals illegally because they could just as easily or with even less energy and resources Create a Valuable painting, compose a song, chisel a statue from stone, invent a new mode of Transportation or Energy accumulation source, Heal a billionaire, etc...

Again, these are highly romanticized notions with no basis in reality. The alchemists were people like anyone else, subject to the same flaws, problems, desires, needs, etc. They were not some kind of "saints" or "supermen" from planet Krypton. To expect that they would invest so much of their time and money to make this thing only to bizarrely not take advantage of it in the easiest and most obvious way (i.e. make precious metals) requires a humongous and unrealistic leap of faith. Even the best arguments they could come up with for keeping their "craft" a secret have to do with transmutation being counterproductive in the long run if everyone could easily achieve it: lots of people would abandon their respective trades (all very necessary for human society to keep on functioning: can you imagine life with little or no farmers, fishermen, herders, shoe-makers, weavers, construction workers, miners, etc.?) to make precious metals, and they would also inevitably devalue the very precious metals that alchemy makes by eventually flooding the market with artificial silver and gold (precious metals retain their status by remaining relatively scarce to the demand for them. If all of a sudden there is a super-abundance of them, obviously their value would plummet.)

elixirmixer
03-04-2018, 09:16 PM
PS, I'm a 40 year old vegan who hasnt eaten bologna in over 30 years. And my avatar displays the Birth of a Nebula :p

Alchemy just doesn't get you laid does it :cool:

Nibiru
03-05-2018, 03:07 AM
Again, these are highly romanticized notions with no basis in reality. The alchemists were people like anyone else, subject to the same flaws, problems, desires, needs, etc. They were not some kind of "saints" or "supermen" from planet Krypton. To expect that they would invest so much of their time and money to make this thing only to bizarrely not take advantage of it in the easiest and most obvious way (i.e. make precious metals) requires a humongous and unrealistic leap of faith. Even the best arguments they could come up with for keeping their "craft" a secret have to do with transmutation being counterproductive in the long run if everyone could easily achieve it: lots of people would abandon their respective trades (all very necessary for human society to keep on functioning: can you imagine life with little or no farmers, fishermen, herders, shoe-makers, weavers, construction workers, miners, etc.?) to make precious metals, and they would also inevitably devalue the very precious metals that alchemy makes by eventually flooding the market with artificial silver and gold (precious metals retain their status by remaining relatively scarce to the demand for them. If all of a sudden there is a super-abundance of them, obviously their value would plummet.)

Hi JDP, thanks for sharing your perspective :)
I'm not in disagreement with most of what youre attempting to convey here. And I never said an Adept would not make gold or want to make gold, only that imo a being who was that Evolved would not Need to because they could most likely do or be anything they so chose to do or be.

Nibiru
03-05-2018, 03:13 AM
Alchemy just doesn't get you laid does it :cool:

I said Vegan not virgin Lol! :)

and though alchemy may not get one laid, no one can argue that the works of clandestine chemists has not. On the other hand an alchemical work with pheromones or plant hormones could potentially yield some quite interesting results, haha :D

Also the act of getting laid and especially that of procreation coud be Viewed as a direct extension of the Alchemical Process. :)

True Initiate
03-05-2018, 03:24 AM
Alchemists are searching for the Virgin Earth but some are finding it from within.

JDP
03-05-2018, 03:38 AM
Hi JDP, thanks for sharing your perspective :)
I'm not in disagreement with most of what youre attempting to convey here. And I never said an Adept would not make gold or want to make gold, only that imo a being who was that Evolved would not Need to because they could most likely do or be anything they so chose to do or be.

But aren't you assuming that in order to succeed in alchemy you need this alleged high level of "Evolution"? Alchemy is a trade, not different from any other acquired skill, except that for obvious reasons it has been heavily imbued with secrecy and therefore it is difficult as hell to unravel it. It would be like saying that a heart-surgeon, which requires a heck of a lot of skill and responsibility, would somehow "Evolve" so much by acquiring the "tricks" of his trade that he would eventually want to quit his job and devote himself to painting or composing poems. Why??? He makes a living through his trade, what he is skillful at. Just because he has a heck of a lot of talent operating on human hearts doesn't necessarily mean that he will mysteriously acquire super-talents in other trades. Why should it be any different with alchemy?

PS: don't believe even for a second the "Donum Dei" nonsense claims that many alchemists ferociously promoted to self-aggrandize themselves as some sort of privileged "chosen ones" and try to impress the more gullible sector of the general public with such grandiloquent boasts.

Nibiru
03-05-2018, 03:56 AM
But aren't you assuming that in order to succeed in alchemy you need this alleged high level of "Evolution"? Alchemy is a trade, not different from any other acquired skill, except that for obvious reasons it has been heavily imbued with secrecy and therefore it is difficult as hell to unravel it. It would be like saying that a heart-surgeon, which requires a heck of a lot of skill and responsibility, would somehow "Evolve" so much by acquiring the "tricks" of his trade that he would eventually want to quit his job and devote himself to painting or composing poems. Why??? He makes a living through his trade, what he is skillful at. Just because he has a heck of a lot of talent operating on human hearts doesn't necessarily mean that he will mysteriously acquire super-talents in other trades. Why should it be any different with alchemy?

PS: don't believe even for a second the "Donum Dei" nonsense claims that many alchemists ferociously promoted to self-aggrandize themselves as some sort of privileged "chosen ones" and try to impress the more gullible sector of the general public with such grandiloquent boasts.

I feel we're speaking on differing aspects of The Art. You seem to be speaking on archemical processes, where as I'm contemplating Alchemical processes that not only affect the Matter being Worked but also those who Work the Matter. To Realize this concept of a Stone the Artist must first become the Matter.

JDP
03-05-2018, 04:02 AM
I feel we're speaking on differing aspects of The Art. You seem to be speaking on archemical processes, where as I'm contemplating Alchemical processes that not only affect the Matter being Worked but also those who Work the Matter. To Realize this concept of a Stone the Artist must first become the Matter.

No, I am speaking of alchemy now, not "archemy". There is no difference when it comes to this. Alchemists were people too, not "super-men". There is no shred of evidence that the processes of alchemy somehow affect the operator, or that the alchemist himself "becomes the matter". These are modern myths that have their origins in the 19th and early 20th century "occultist" and Jungian attempts at reinterpreting alchemy.

Kibric
03-05-2018, 04:26 AM
Fulcanelli replied "You are asking me to summarize in four minutes four thousand years of philosophy and my whole life's work, furthermore you are asking me to translate into plain words concepts for which such a language is not intended. All the same I can say this: you will not be aware that in present-day official science the part played by the observer becomes more and more important. Relativity, the principles of indeterminacy, demonstrates the extent to which the observer today intervenes in all these phenomena."

"The secret of Alchemy is this: there is a way of manipulating what modern science calls force-field. This force-field acts upon the observer and puts him in a privileged position, he has access to the realities which are normally concealed from us by time, space, matter, and energy. This is what we call The Great Work"

the authenticity of this i dont know, but i think it might be relevant to the discussion


Alchemists were people too, not "super-men". There is no shred of evidence that the processes of alchemy somehow affect the operator, or that the alchemist himself "becomes the matter"
but after completing the stone there are descriptions of its different effects ?
didn't roger bacon or Francis go on about it and had a list ?
as alchemy is primarily a single secretive practise its hard to verify any account in detail for ourselves

JDP
03-05-2018, 04:46 AM
the authenticity of this i dont know, but i think this might be relevant to the discussion

In the genuine works of Fulcanelli there is no trace of any such notion. He did believe in such antiquated speculative notions as the supposed effects of "Lunar radiation", which really have no evidence going for them either, but he did not claim that the alchemist himself was in control of such things or that he himself had an effect on the matters and reactions that compose the Stone. Fulcanelli's stand is basically the same as mine (except for the kooky antiquated notions he wasn't able to shake off, like the supposed effects of "Lunar radiation"): alchemists manipulate some matters in the appropriate way and proportions and make the secret solvent and the Stone with them, just like all other artificial productions of man. Nothing really "supernatural" about it.

Ghislain
03-05-2018, 05:30 AM
Are there any historically confirmed records of alchemists with an abundance of gold or is it all supposition?

If the budding alchemist put the same amount of effort into understanding the ways of the world, then they
would most likely find the gold they are looking for.

Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Howard Hughes, Andrew Carnegie, Warren Buffett...
The list of real alchemists goes on and on.

What did those above have that us lesser mortals lacked...insight, the ability to see an opportunity and the gumption
to grab it for better or for worse.

The harder I worked the more the universe appeared to give me what I wanted, until today where I am, what I
consider, financially free.

A friend of mine remarked at how lucky I was, I replied, "yes, and the harder I work the luckier I seem to get".

In my opinion, alchemy is allegory, where one needs to read between the lines. I mentioned work, but if you
are doing what you enjoy, it doesn't appear to be work. Keep one eye on the ball and you can spot those
opportunities, and don't expect instant gratification.

Alchemy is a recipe for success, be that financial or spiritual.

I hope I won't be punished for revealing that little secret ;)

Ghislain

The 20 youngest self-made billionaires in the world (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/the-20-youngest-self-made-billionaires-in-the-world-a6909566.html)

True Initiate
03-05-2018, 06:07 AM
It is not about Gold, i want to learn the secret of transmutation of all the elements. Actually i desire this knowledge much more than a philosophers stone which transmutes metals only in Gold.

elixirmixer
03-05-2018, 06:28 AM
It is not about Gold, i want to learn the secret of transmutation of all the elements. Actually i desire this knowledge much more than a philosophers stone which transmutes metals only in Gold.

Why dont you build a mini fusion reactor. There are videos on youtube about them.

True Initiate
03-05-2018, 06:34 AM
This is exactly what i am doing right now but it doesn't come cheap.

JDP
03-05-2018, 07:04 AM
Are there any historically confirmed records of alchemists with an abundance of gold or is it all supposition?

The "adept" who called himself "Theodorus Mundanus" and who demonstrated alchemical transmutation for Edmund Dickinson and Robert Boyle was a wealthy Frenchman with servants. The Scotsman who called himself "Alexander Seton" and who went around Central Europe on a crusade to demonstrate the reality of transmutation against the detractors of alchemy was also a wealthy man with at least one servant. Some other alchemists preferred to go around more "incognito", not openly flaunting their wealth and adopting a more humble and unassuming appearance, like the "brass-founder" who visited Helvetius and donated a sample of the Stone to him so that he could perform a transmutation himself.


If the budding alchemist put the same amount of effort into understanding the ways of the world, then they
would most likely find the gold they are looking for.

Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Howard Hughes, Andrew Carnegie, Warren Buffett...
The list of real alchemists goes on and on.

What did those above have that us lesser mortals lacked...insight, the ability to see an opportunity and the gumption
to grab it for better or for worse.

The harder I worked the more the universe appeared to give me what I wanted, until today where I am, what I
consider, financially free.

A friend of mine remarked at how lucky I was, I replied, "yes, and the harder I work the luckier I seem to get".

In my opinion, alchemy is allegory, where one needs to read between the lines. I mentioned work, but if you
are doing what you enjoy, it doesn't appear to be work. Keep one eye on the ball and you can spot those
opportunities, and don't expect instant gratification.

Alchemy is a recipe for success, be that financial or spiritual.

I hope I won't be punished for revealing that little secret ;)

Ghislain

The 20 youngest self-made billionaires in the world (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/the-20-youngest-self-made-billionaires-in-the-world-a6909566.html)

That has nothing to do with alchemy but with being a good businessman. You could be a great alchemist but a very lousy businessman at the same time. They do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Ghislain
03-05-2018, 08:23 AM
JDP, a lot of the richest people in the world had no business acumen at all to start with.

Where are the, gold rich, alchemists today apart from in the annals of history books and ancient texts?

I believe people find gold when they stop seeking it and realise they have possessed it all along.

Ghislain

Salazius
03-05-2018, 12:22 PM
People imagine you can transmute, sell gold, and still be incognito.

This is a short vision, incomplete, or ignorant of the situation of gold in the world, and all the security, tracking, business and surveillance around this topic. It's the top of the top of the official maffia we are talking about.

Transmute and sell, and you are dead, or in jail.

Get a job instead.

JDP
03-05-2018, 12:25 PM
JDP, a lot of the richest people in the world had no business acumen at all to start with.

If that was true then they would not have made it, they would have gone broke.


Where are the, gold rich, alchemists today apart from in the annals of history books and ancient texts?

How do you know they aren't out there? With the way things are today, obviously they would prefer that no one knows where their fortunes are coming from, so they would rather "launder" the money coming from alchemical means (even though alchemy is not technically "illegal" anywhere, it would still be hard to convince an official government that you are earning your money with artificial silver & gold; chemistry and its persistent & ferocious 200+ year old anti-transmutation propaganda campaign has brainwashed modern society so much into thinking that the whole thing is "impossible" that you would have to go to extraordinary lengths to prove to the government that you are in fact manufacturing the precious metals, not stealing, smuggling, or clandestinely mining them somewhere; plus even if you prove it to them, they still would demand that you pay income taxes from all your alchemical gains, it would not get you "off the hook" about this part.)


I believe people find gold when they stop seeking it and realise they have possessed it all along.

Sounds like a bunch of "metaphysical" nonsense. You need to focus on more realistic views of life and how people and societies really are and function. Life constantly demands real gold (or other forms of real money), not the "metaphysical" one, which is not real and exists only in some people's imagination. "Metaphysical gold" is not going to put a roof over your head and food on the table.

JDP
03-05-2018, 12:34 PM
People imagine you can transmute, sell gold, and still be incognito.

This is a short vision, incomplete, or ignorant of the situation of gold in the world, and all the security, tracking, business and surveillance around this topic. It's the top of the top of the official maffia we are talking about.

Transmute and sell, and you are dead, or in jail.

Get a job instead.

That's actually quite incorrect. In many countries you can sell your precious metals to anyone, no questions asked. Private prospectors in the United States, for example, can keep all the gold they find out there in the wilderness and sell it to whoever they want. They don't have to give explanations to anyone regarding where exactly they found it or how they found it. Once any unclaimed gold is in your hands, it is yours, period. Of course, the government still wants a "cut" of your gains, so technically you still have to report your gold sales as income to the Internal Revenue Service (but there also are some ways around this, but this is "illegal" in most cases; the government WANTS a "cut" of all your income at all costs, so they will make it as difficult as possible for you to get around their tax collectors.)

Also, in the United States, Dr. Emmens in fact sold ARTIFICIAL GOLD to the US GOVERNMENT ITSELF, and they would gladly buy it from him as long as it would pass all their assaying tests. This guy did not make the least effort to hide the origin of his gold, he in fact very openly advertised it to the press! Of course, the US Government could not prove that Dr. Emmens was really transmuting silver into gold with his process, but they did not care one bit as long as the gold ingots he sold them were real and passed all assaying tests.

True Initiate
03-05-2018, 01:37 PM
People imagine you can transmute, sell gold, and still be incognito.

This is a short vision, incomplete, or ignorant of the situation of gold in the world, and all the security, tracking, business and surveillance around this topic. It's the top of the top of the official maffia we are talking about.

Transmute and sell, and you are dead, or in jail.

Get a job instead.

Ever heard of a cover story? I sold about 5 gramms of gold that i got from recycling old CPU chips without any problem.

Awani
03-05-2018, 01:50 PM
First you got to make shitloads of gold before you can sell it.

Anyone with any intelligence would (when they can make shitloads at will) walk the Earth and just throw it everywhere on the ground. That would be a true act of a Master at work. To hoard it all to oneself is... well we all know what happened to King Midas.

:p

Nibiru
03-05-2018, 04:23 PM
..another brief contemplation concerning the concept of the more mundane aspects of a physical transmutation.

Classic traditional Alchemists who had obviously also achieved the 'sense of humor Stone' as seems to be apparent from their respective nom de plumes, PRICELESS! Haha :p :D


The "adept" who called himself "Theodorus Mundanus" and who demonstrated alchemical transmutation for Edmund Dickinson and Robert Boyle was a wealthy Frenchman with servants. The Scotsman who called himself "Alexander Seton" and who went around Central Europe on a crusade to demonstrate the reality of transmutation against the detractors of alchemy was also a wealthy man with at least one servant.

Ghislain
03-05-2018, 05:11 PM
I am reluctant to believe anything I see in the media today, but I'm expected to take stories of gold from way back when
on face value, irrespective of the lack of scientific knowledge, a plethora of puffers, everyone writing in code, and
many alchemist employed to produce the gold under the fear of death.

Smells a bit like creatures with scales to me, but each to their own.

I guess the proof the philosophical pudding is in the eating.

Ghislain

JDP
03-05-2018, 08:20 PM
Classic traditional Alchemists who had obviously also achieved the 'sense of humor Stone' as seems to be apparent from their respective nom de plumes, PRICELESS! Haha :p :D

In this case the Latin word "Mundanus" is meant as "Cosmopolite".

JDP
03-05-2018, 08:25 PM
I am reluctant to believe anything I see in the media today, but I'm expected to take stories of gold from way back when
on face value, irrespective of the lack of scientific knowledge, a plethora of puffers, everyone writing in code, and
many alchemist employed to produce the gold under the fear of death.

Smells a bit like creatures with scales to me, but each to their own.

I guess the proof the philosophical pudding is in the eating.

Ghislain

And yet you seem very willing to believe in totally uncorroborated stuff that is a billion times more implausible, like the universe "is talking" to us, or metaphysical "gold", and similar kooky stuff. Yes, each to his own, indeed!

Nibiru
03-05-2018, 09:27 PM
In this case the Latin word "Mundanus" is meant as "Cosmopolite".

I Understand, thanks :) Just attempting to keep this thread civil with a bit of humor

zoas23
03-06-2018, 02:52 AM
I Understand, thanks :) Just attempting to keep this thread civil with a bit of humor

You don't need humor, you need a composite substance that creates a secret solvent and then make lots of gold.
(Impersonating JDP for a second for fun's sake).

Other than that, JDP's idea of "finding gold" doesn't really work. Money laundering is VERY controlled everywhere and the "Narcos" will have a very simple life if they could claim that they are "finding gold" all the time.

JDP
03-06-2018, 03:39 AM
You don't need humor, you need a composite substance that creates a secret solvent and then make lots of gold.
(Impersonating JDP for a second for fun's sake).

Other than that, JDP's idea of "finding gold" doesn't really work. Money laundering is VERY controlled everywhere and the "Narcos" will have a very simple life if they could claim that they are "finding gold" all the time.

"Narcos" don't deal with gold, plus they keep on laundering MILLIONS all the time, so, yes, you bet it works. There's several ways of doing similar things with artificial gold. On a smaller scale, you can even use something as common and simple as PayPal to keep thousands of dollars out of reach from the government's tax collectors.

elixirmixer
03-06-2018, 03:46 AM
"Narcos" don't deal with gold, plus they keep on laundering MILLIONS all the time, so, yes, you bet it works. There's several ways of doing similar things with artificial gold.

Set up a yiros shop and just go in and buy $1000 worth of your own supply each day; handing out the food to the poor while declaring yoir cash as income in your shop. Two demons with one Stone :cool:

JDP
03-06-2018, 03:55 AM
Set up a yiros shop and just go in and buy $1000 worth of your own supply each day; handing out the food to the poor while declaring yoir cash as income in your shop. Two demons with one Stone :cool:

LOL! Yes, evidently zoas23 hasn't watched Breaking Bad. Or you can just do it a la "Mike" from the same show: stash your cash gains in safety deposit boxes, where the tax collectors' prying eyes can't reach.

Schmuldvich
03-06-2018, 04:07 AM
One word: Art.

Art is worth what the buyer is willing to pay. Starting price is determined by the seller. Best legal way to "launder" money, imo.

One red pencil mark, limited edition, on a piece of framed cardboard, starting price: $1,000,000,000 (price negotiable).

Being a paid Consultant is another great way to rack up legal income where the value of services rendered is in the eye of the beholder.

Hey man, I'm about to set up a new home network and would like advice on what products to buy, starting price for consultation fees: $5,000/hr. (price negotiable).

Many ways are out there, but these are two of the foremost ways used by the [questionably] wealthy to "launder" money legally--err, I mean--transmute poverty into riches. ;)


Nibiru,


Why would anyone ever have a "need" to transmute metals, and how would one "no longer have a need" to do such...?

zoas23
03-06-2018, 06:32 AM
LOL! Yes, evidently zoas23 hasn't watched Breaking Bad. Or you can just do it a la "Mike" from the same show: stash your cash gains in safety deposit boxes, where the tax collectors' prying eyes can't reach.

I thankfully do not watch TV. I prefer books. So all I know about Breaking Bad is that it is a TV show.
(Then again, I won't throw the reading books into your face, because you are a very well-read man).

A close friend, a computer genius, maybe the smartest person I know, designed a software for a bank as to trace cases of money laundering (he designed it because he was hired to do it, the bank hired him to do it because the government of the USA made it compulsory for the banks to use a soft like that one).

Yes, sure, you can store your gold or money in deposit boxes, under the bed or use anonymous crypto-currencies. HOWEVER, as soon as you begin to USE that cash and the numbers do not match, you will be investigated.

I.e, If you have a $1,000 per month job and you suddenly buy a $500,000 house, you will certainly be asked where the hell is that money coming from.

Other than that, nothing is impossible... lots of persons with unjustified incomes become contemporary art collectors... because they purchase the works of an artist for, say, $10,000,(they actually pay by far more, but the declared cost is $10,000) but then they find another "collector" who decides that the painting costs $1 million.... and then sells the same work to a third collector for $5 millions. Thus the first person justified how almost a million arrived to his pockets, the second person justifies how 4 millions arrived to his pockets, etc....
And that's an advantage for the Artist too, because another collector who is not laundering money may decide to buy a painting by him for $3 millions, because another painting was allegedly sold for $5 millions.

Several contemporary artists who are not talented at all have become quite famous because of this trick... most persons who know a bit about contemporary art perfectly know who (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Botero) they are.

elixirmixer
03-06-2018, 06:49 AM
Feel free to buy my paintings for anywhere over $10,000. I wont mind at all :)

Andro
03-06-2018, 07:05 AM
Walter White had to launder the drug money through a car-wash, and eventually realized he would need many more car-washing establishments to process all the money. Ultimately, to make sure the money pays for his kids' college and future, he had to threaten a couple of tech billionaires to take his barrels of cash and make the respective payments to his family after his demise, as no one would suspect money coming from "legit" billionaire philanthropists.


Being a paid Consultant is another great way to rack up legal income where the value of services rendered is in the eye of the beholder.

I've been undercharging for my consulting sessions for far too long :)

True Initiate
03-06-2018, 08:58 AM
Set up a yiros shop and just go in and buy $1000 worth of your own supply each day; handing out the food to the poor while declaring yoir cash as income in your shop. Two demons with one Stone :cool:

You can do this with cash for gold scheme too. You are buying gold from yourself and selling it to a refinery. Self-sufficient circle of life.

JDP
03-06-2018, 11:25 AM
You can do this with cash for gold scheme too. You are buying gold from yourself and selling it to a refinery. Self-sufficient circle of life.

There was a show on the National Geographic channel called Meltdown:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/meltdown/

It followed "urban prospectors" who search for gold, silver and platinum wherever they can find it for free or at a cheap price in the big cities and towns, as opposed to normal prospectors who find them out in the wilderness. Once they got a hold of the precious metals all they had to do was to take them to a precious metal smelter, who would gladly buy it from them (for example, one guy found a dentist who had gallons of old film developer chemicals based on silver nitrate and wanted to get rid of them since he now had more modern digital equipment; he got the silver-containing chemicals for a trifle, then precipitated all the silver out of it simply by adding a salt solution to the chemicals and then sold the silver chloride to a smelter for a nice profit.) That's how easy it is! Now, imagine that if instead of finding the gold & silver like these guys, you are actually making them. If anyone asks questions about where you got them, you just make up a story. Example: "I found this ounce of gold-shot hidden in my grandma's old shoes. She was an old-fashioned person and did not trust banks, she kept money and other valuables under her pillow and in her closet." Guess what? No one can investigate your story, they have to take your word for it. And the precious metal dealers care very little about such things in the first place, as long as you are selling them the real things they are more than happy to buy them from you as long as they themselves can make a profit.

As I pointed out in a previous post in this thread, Dr. Stephen Emmens even SOLD GOLD INGOTS TO THE US GOVERNMENT ITSELF, and this dude DID NOT MAKE ANY SECRET WHATSOEVER THAT HE WAS MAKING THE GOLD FROM SILVER through his own secret process. And guess what? The US Government did not care! They took the old doc's word for it and would gladly keep on buying all the gold bullion he offered them as long as it would pass their assaying tests. That's all the government cared about.

JDP
03-06-2018, 11:32 AM
I thankfully do not watch TV. I prefer books. So all I know about Breaking Bad is that it is a TV show.
(Then again, I won't throw the reading books into your face, because you are a very well-read man).

A close friend, a computer genius, maybe the smartest person I know, designed a software for a bank as to trace cases of money laundering (he designed it because he was hired to do it, the bank hired him to do it because the government of the USA made it compulsory for the banks to use a soft like that one).

Yes, sure, you can store your gold or money in deposit boxes, under the bed or use anonymous crypto-currencies. HOWEVER, as soon as you begin to USE that cash and the numbers do not match, you will be investigated.

I.e, If you have a $1,000 per month job and you suddenly buy a $500,000 house, you will certainly be asked where the hell is that money coming from.

Other than that, nothing is impossible... lots of persons with unjustified incomes become contemporary art collectors... because they purchase the works of an artist for, say, $10,000,(they actually pay by far more, but the declared cost is $10,000) but then they find another "collector" who decides that the painting costs $1 million.... and then sells the same work to a third collector for $5 millions. Thus the first person justified how almost a million arrived to his pockets, the second person justifies how 4 millions arrived to his pockets, etc....
And that's an advantage for the Artist too, because another collector who is not laundering money may decide to buy a painting by him for $3 millions, because another painting was allegedly sold for $5 millions.

Several contemporary artists who are not talented at all have become quite famous because of this trick... most persons who know a bit about contemporary art perfectly know who (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernando_Botero) they are.

The governments of the world have a very tough time trying to keep track of money laundering. The US Government itself is highly inefficient in this regard:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/27/paul-manafort-was-stupid-or-unlucky-most-money-launderers-get-away-with-it-217090

zoas23
03-06-2018, 11:36 AM
Just out of curiosity, because I do not remember examples.
Which other products did the historical alchemists sell? (i.e, excluding gold, silver... and books; and excluding the XX and XXI century, because new age waves made people sell the weirdest things in the name of alchemy -i.e, the most famous "alchemist" of my country, a person who probably nobody here knows because he has almost no activity on the internet sells mostly candles and "alchemical incense" -don't even ask me what such thing means,).

I can think of medicines, specially Paracelsus.... but maybe someone knows an interesting curiosity (i.e, a solvent that a specific industry needed, etc).

Awani
03-06-2018, 11:36 AM
Ten years ago I had saved up about ten grand, that I had kept off the grid. It was very difficult to get this money back into the system and I imagine the system is even tighter these days. So imagine if you had 100 000 or more then that would be very difficult to place in a bank etc. So this means you have to remain off the grid, but you cannot buy property cash (normally)... and the problem is when you buy stuff like cars, property, land etc with cash you are usually dealing with other "criminals", so the chance you have of getting screwed increase.

If you are a good citizen you have to pay tax.
If you are a criminal you don't have to pay tax, but you pay another sort of tax.

The concept of "get rich quick scheme" is the biggest trap of all. There is nothing in this world that is "get X guick"... if you want to do something properly or get something properly - no matter what it is - there is only ONE thing you have to do: WORK HARD (and I don't mean in a job, work hard regarding whatever it is you are working on/with). And if the end result is MONEY... then that is another trap... money in itself has little value.

Truly wealthy people have more debt than cash, in terms of capitalism and big business the thing that has value - real value - are DOCUMENTS. ;)

:p

* I am talking from the perspective of high end societies... I mean if you live in Turkey and make gold and sell it on the street no one will give a rats ass... you might get stabbed for it, but that is about it.

Ghislain
03-06-2018, 11:42 AM
IMO, due to money laundering, it wouldn't be that easy.

Here in the UK, if you take more than £10k from your own bank account the bank has to inform the authorities.

They will be watching you.

I guess you could just use cash and don't use the banks, but that is getting harder and harder by the day.

Will cash even be a thing in years to come, will we go totally digital?

Ghislain

Awani
03-06-2018, 11:47 AM
I have two ATM cards, and I gave one to a family member. I was abroad and used mine, and then my family member used hers... the bank called me, asking how I could be in two countries at the same time. I told them the truth, and they went really mad... you cannot give your card to someone else. I told them I give my card to whomever I fucking want.

Anyway point of the story is THEY ARE WATCHING, don't think they are not.

:p

JDP
03-06-2018, 12:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, because I do not remember examples.
Which other products did the historical alchemists sell? (i.e, excluding gold, silver... and books; and excluding the XX and XXI century, because new age waves made people sell the weirdest things in the name of alchemy -i.e, the most famous "alchemist" of my country, a person who probably nobody here knows because he has almost no activity on the internet sells mostly candles and "alchemical incense" -don't even ask me what such thing means,).

I can think of medicines, specially Paracelsus.... but maybe someone knows an interesting curiosity (i.e, a solvent that a specific industry needed, etc).

Yes, some would offer such things as special solvents, or poisons, for particular purposes. A couple of famous incidents involving alchemy which accidentally resulted in something totally different than the Stone which ended up "for sale" were the discovery of phosphorus and how porcelain was made (the Chinese already knew how to make porcelain since long ago, but Europeans did not discover it until the early 18th century.)

zoas23
03-06-2018, 01:18 PM
Yes, some would offer such things as special solvents, or poisons, for particular purposes. A couple of famous incidents involving alchemy which accidentally resulted in something totally different than the Stone which ended up "for sale" were the discovery of phosphorus and how porcelain was made (the Chinese already knew how to make porcelain since long ago, but Europeans did not discover it until the early 18th century.)

Oh, yes, of course!
You made me remember a FANTASTIC exhibition I saw in Berlin: http://www.smb.museum/en/exhibitions/detail/alchemie-die-grosse-kunst.html (This description is quite bad, because it suggests that it was an "alchemy meets modern art" exhibitions, when the case was that they had some 7 to 10 works by modern artists inspired by the alchemical tradition and the rest of the exhibition was focused on classical alcheemy -European, Indian, Arabic and Chinese)

I was surprised by the fact that it was historically accurate (and they had marvelous first editions of very early editions of the most famous alchemical books, which was quite surprising to see face to face, specially because of the sizes -just like most persons who go to the louvre get surprised by the tiny size of the Mona Lisa, same thing happens with the classical books... some books that I had assumed would be somehow big were printed in very tiny sizes, whilst others which I thought would be small, were sometimes HUGE -The biggest surprise was to see one of the versions of the Ripley Scroll, which was more or less 5 or 6 meters long).

ANYWAY.... at that exhibition they had a fantastic section of historical side products of Alchemy that was very interesting to see. A lot of them had a decorative nature, like some examples of the glass works of Johann Kunckel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_von_L%C3%B6wenstern-Kunckel):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Goldrubinglas_Schatzkammer_M%C3%BCnchen.jpg/320px-Goldrubinglas_Schatzkammer_M%C3%BCnchen.jpg

(Not exactly these ones at the exhibition, but very similar ones).
So it was very interesting to see what ELSE were the alchemists doing (and selling).
Other examples at the exhibition were different artificial stones with very attractive colours (not "transmutation stones", but decorative ones and used for jewelry).

It was also interesting to see on display some historical equipments used by Chinese alchemists (the only STRANGE thing about the exhibition was the poor collection of European equipments, which are not so hard to see elsewhere). They were interesting in the sense that unlike most of the European equipments that simply had a "practical" function, the Chinese ones were also (of course) practical, but heavily decorated and symbolic.

I.e, like this furnace:
http://www.alchemywebsite.com/images/furnace01.jpg

... which is, of course, practical, but it also resembles a face and has feet (I do not know enough about China as to get what kind of creature or monster or God it is representing... but it was interesting to see the difference between a more "strictly practical" approach and a "practical and mythical" approach in the equipments).

Anyway, that's an interesting side of alchemy too: the products that didn't "transmute" but became worthy because of other reasons.

True Initiate
03-06-2018, 05:49 PM
some books that I had assumed would be somehow big were printed in very tiny sizes, whilst others which I thought would be small, were sometimes HUGE -The biggest surprise was to see one of the versions of the Ripley Scroll, which was more or less 5 or 6 meters long).

I am glad to hear that your sight is getting better.

Ghislain
03-07-2018, 12:01 AM
And yet you seem very willing to believe in totally uncorroborated stuff that is a billion times more implausible, like the universe "is talking" to us, or metaphysical "gold", and similar kooky stuff. Yes, each to his own, indeed!

I'm living the results of my endeavours, as are you ;)

Ghislain

zoas23
03-07-2018, 12:14 AM
I am glad to hear that your sight is getting better.

Thank you, but not yet! (actually they are getting worse).
I am talking about an exhibition I visited in July 2017!!!
With some luck the not very alchemical doctor will find out this week what the hell is going on with my eyes... because I don't even have a diagnostic yet.

IF I had a diagnostic, I would have probably asked for suggestions here... but since I don't even know what I have, then I can't ask (except a very general and pointless question such as "What can heal my eyes? I do not know if it's a bacterial infection, a viral infection, a problem of the eyes unrelated to infections, an allergy or something else").

I need a Paracelsus with a truly UNIVERSAL panacea or a diagnostic!
:cool: <--- Me wearing sunglasses as to prevent the pain that the lights bring me.