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View Full Version : Nuclear Fusion (& other Natural Forces) meets Philosopher's Stone



Azamorn
01-18-2015, 07:59 PM
Hello :)

Before I begin I would like to say that I am very new to alchemy, in fact I am currently busy on the theoretical part of alchemy (learning about all the different alchemical processes and such) and I will be ordering all the necessary apparatus I need to get started on the practical side within the coming months.

That said I would like to apologize before hand if I come across as someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about because I am only just beginning my journey, the first book on alchemy I have ever read and what introduced me to alchemy was "The Book Of Aquarius" which I'm sure some of you will have heard of.
It was in my opinion a great book to explain in laments terms what alchemy is, how it works, what it is about etc.

According to what I have read from the Book Of Aquarius, the philosopher's stone is very highly compressed life-energy, and life-energy is what everything is created from.
I had this idea, I will just simply explain what my idea is, and I realise that this has never been done before, I believe I might be the first person ever to come upon this idea, here goes.

In today's modern science, first world countries are pouring massive resources into Nuclear Fusion, where hydrogen would be fused into helium using incredibly powerfull lasers in a shielded chamber, with the purpose of recreating the power of the stars on earth. Nuclear Fusion is incredibly difficult because to make it viable you have to extract more energy from the process as what you are putting in.

Now I know that probably nobody here is a scientist, let alone me. And that the modern science and alchemy are like two distant brothers.

I had this idea, that if the deuterium fuel pellet that is currently being used was replaced or combined with the red stone in fluid form, or perhaps solid form. I have this strong hunch that we could make fusion possible, in the next generation instead of 50 years from now :) I believe it may be the missing ingredient to the fusion process and that it is responsible for the sun's ability to sustain fusion over billions of years.

I sincerely hope I don't sound like an idiot right now.

Awani
01-18-2015, 09:01 PM
I think Nuclear power of any sort should be buried forever. There are far greater sources of energy the human race could invest in than something that is organically deadly for 250 - 500 000 years.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/suicide_54405_zpsb9a2da4f.jpg


I believe it may be the missing ingredient to the fusion process and that it is responsible for the sun's ability to sustain fusion over billions of years.

Could be, but we should not create the power of the stars on this planet... if you are talking about long-distance space travel then why not... but if you are talking about powering our lives then hell no.

:cool:

Azamorn
01-18-2015, 09:44 PM
I realise that this is not the forum I should really be putting this sort of question, but I did not know where else I could go to ask such a question, unless somebody knows a nuclear physicist with an interest in alchemy?

Truthfully, I have a interest in solving the world's energy problems once and for all, getting rid of all the inefficient and harmful forms of power generation, and I thought what the heck? Couldn't hurt to ask someone's opinion :)

Kiorionis
01-18-2015, 09:59 PM
Hey

Welcome to the Forum Azamorn :)

The lessons learned in the pursuit of nuclear energy could very well be applied to free energy at some point. Say for instance, a solar cell that captures sunlight then does some sort of solve et coagula on it to double or triple its force.

Interesting topic though. I think its funny that science assumes to know what is happening in the center of stars. Maybe they're wormholes connected to black holes! Lol

Awani
01-18-2015, 10:53 PM
I realise that this is not the forum I should really be putting this sort of question...

Yes it is. I just stated my own opinion. Others might disagree.

:cool:

theFool
01-18-2015, 10:59 PM
I had this idea, that if the deuterium fuel pellet that is currently being used was replaced or combined with the red stone in fluid form, or perhaps solid form. Is this idea out of intuition or did you read something? You may find this link interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury



I have this strong hunch that we could make fusion possible, in the next generation instead of 50 years from now :) I guess it has already been discovered. Question is how much time it will need to reach to 'us' and how much blood we have to pay.

Andro
01-19-2015, 07:53 AM
The following describes an encounter with the mysterious 20th century Alchemist Fulcanelli:



Walter Lang reports that Fulcanelli communicated with Jacques Bergier to warn French atomic physicist André Helbronner of man's impending use of nuclear weapons. According to Fulcanelli, nuclear weapons had been used before, by and against humanity. Prof. Helbronner and Chevillon among others were assassinated by the Gestapo towards the end of World War II.

The meeting between Jacques Bergier andFulcanelli occurred during June 1937 in a laboratory of the Gas Board in Paris. According to Neil Powell, the following is a translation of the original verbatim transcript of the rendezvous.

Fulcanelli told Bergier:

"You're on the brink of success, as indeed are several other of our scientists today. Please, allow me, be very very careful. I warn you... The liberation of nuclear power is easier than you think and the radioactivity artificially produced can poison the atmosphere of our planet in a very short time, a few years. Moreover, atomic explosives can be produced from a few grains of metal powerful enough to destroy whole cities. I'm telling you this for a fact: The alchemists have known it for a very long time..."

SOURCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulcanelli) (one of many)

Dendritic Xylem
01-19-2015, 08:02 AM
I believe it may be the missing ingredient to the fusion process and that it is responsible for the sun's ability to sustain fusion over billions of years.

There are many brilliant modern scientists who are putting out pretty damning evidence against the 'nuclear furnace' theory of the sun.


Proponents of the Electric Universe suggest that there are no isolated islands in the universe. All objects in space, from subatomic particles to galactic clusters, are connected by manifestations of the electric force acting in real-time.

The Standard Model of the Sun proposes that pressure at the core of the Sun provokes a thermonuclear reaction. Proponents of this model say that this thermonuclear furnace causes the Sun to shine.

The Electric Sun Model, on the other hand, envisions thermonuclear reactions and neutrino production at or close to the surface of the Sun where the maximum exchange between the Sun and its external environment occurs.

It is electricity that energizes the stars, including the Sun, in a form of glow discharge. This external power source explains why the temperature of the Sun increases above the photosphere to coronal temperatures of 2 million degrees. Powerful plasma feedback effects maintain a steady output of visible solar radiation while variations in power input show up in the familiar sunspot cycle.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/about/syn/

Kiorionis
01-19-2015, 04:28 PM
There are many brilliant modern scientists who are putting out pretty damning evidence against the 'nuclear furnace' theory of the sun.

Any of them alchemists?

@Azamorn,
You may be interested in this thread: The Universal Order of Creation of Matter (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4125-The-Universal-Order-of-Creation-of-Matter)

If you haven't already found it :)

Azamorn
01-19-2015, 07:25 PM
@Kiorionis, well I looked into the Keshe Foundation, at first I discovered that all his books he charges about 30 pounds for, while I could definitely find a free a copy somewhere on the internet I first did myself a big favour and did more research on this Keshe person who is supposedly a nuclear physicist, I have to say this man is 95% or more likely to be a fraud, who is playing on the uneducated and taking them for fools. He has quite a few 'demonstrations' available on youtube, I recommend you watch them as they are certainly very entertaining for anyone who has at least a decent knowledge of physics and science.

Okay, onwards. I will definitely have a look at the concept of an electric universe, as this does seem logical to me. being that all the stars generate a immense amount of power through the process of fusion.
Let me say that I am a very open minded person, hence my interest in learning a lot more about alchemy as I believe that alchemy discovered things that modern science has either completely overlooked or that cannot be explained by it.

There is no doubt that nuclear fission is a very inefficient and destructive technology :) and we cannot continue to use fossil fuels to power the world as this will one day lead to the world being uninhabitable, I would rather wish to avoid that and use my noggin to the best of my abilities to find a way to save the planet. I do not think that modern science should be discredited so easily as many of them have very real experiments that prove their theories. Much like the nuclear bomb was the first real demonstration of E=MC(squared).

@Dendritic I will definitely read up more on the concept of a the electric universe :)

Awani
01-19-2015, 10:00 PM
Much like the nuclear bomb was the first real demonstration of E=MC(squared).

I doubted this statement... this is what it says in the fairly respectable The Guardian:


The equation appeared in the report, prepared for the US government by physicist Henry DeWolf Smyth in 1945, on the Allied efforts to make an atomic bomb during the Manhattan project. The result of that project led to the death of hundreds of thousands of Japanese citizens in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Einstein himself had encouraged the US government to fund research into atomic energy during the second world war but his own involvement in the Manhattan project was limited because of his lack of security clearances. It is unlikely that Einstein's equation was much use in designing the bomb, beyond making scientists and military leaders realise that such a thing would be theoretically possible, but the association has stuck. - source (http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/05/einstein-equation-emc2-special-relativity-alok-jha)

We don't need to kill thousands of people just to grasp the concept that mass and energy are two forms of the same thing. In the right condition, mass can turn into energy and energy can turn into mass. In other words... as above so below, as without so within (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3669-As-Above-So-Below-(translations)).

As for various models of the universe you can also look into, if you haven't already, the Holographic Universe (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?111-Holographic-Universe).

Article: Underground experiment confirms what powers the sun (http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2014/08/underground-experiment-confirms-what-powers-sun)


Scientists have long believed that the power of the sun comes largely from the fusion of protons into helium, but now they can finally prove it.


I would rather wish to avoid that and use my noggin to the best of my abilities to find a way to save the planet.

I'm all for a new healthy cheap and clean energy source, but as for saving the planet check out this cartoon:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/Untitled_zpsa6dd2342.png
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/Untitled2_zpse8a9deaa.png
:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
01-20-2015, 08:29 AM
Any of them alchemists?

I don't know. But by using their electric universe theory, they have been able to predict celestial events which leave conventional cosmologists dumbstruck. Like when they predicted the massive electrical discharge from that comet impact in the documentary. The size of the discharge was totally unexpected by NASA...but the Electric Universe cosmologists had actually predicted it before it happened.

True Initiate
01-27-2015, 01:04 PM
More and more people are starting to see a connection between alchemy and the forces of nature. 4 nature forces are known to us and 3 are discussed in this thread.

My question is what force could ancients have known of those 3? Nuclear forces seem very unlikely but electro-magnetic force is the only one plausible for the time period.

alfr
01-27-2015, 11:32 PM
Hi T.I. (ex trur puffer)
thanks
electro-magnetic and electricity yes sure T.I. it you have reason it is absolutly true an correct and also about it see the note of bacstron at him Rosicrucian Aphorisms and Process i quote it

SUPPLEMENT
to the foregoing Aphorisms.

If the globes containing the subjects be three, four or more times electrified in the beginning, before you put them in the bath; so as to introduce the Electrical Universal principle, or the Universal Spirit of Nature into the subject by motion, the same spirit in the subject will be greatly strengthened, the operation will be accelerated and improved, and you will obtain an increase of the first White salt or sublimate below the Oak stoppers.

Above I have faithfully communicated our Aphorisms.

London 5th April 1797


Sigismund Bacstrom

M.D. F.R.C

his original it is at the link :
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/bacsproc.html

and more always the bacstron is very important about these experiment with electricity the original manuscript of se for these this important thread dew path

see here the alchemical electrical experiments conducted by sigmund bacstrom with glass globes .. :
nb very important in this thread are the post of T.I.(ex true puffer)

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1832-Dew-Path&p=24762#post24762

imho the ancient well know the some form of electricity and can well use it in alchemy methods...for coagulate spiritus mundi etc ...
use alchemical of electricity as elifas levy say these in many chapter him book history of the magic https://books.google.it/books?id=DIVo4hmp6ooC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=history+of+the+magic+eliphas+l%C3%A9vi&source=bl&ots=PmB9q4VgCb&sig=Mwzq_Nu357QsU65hKF6icRe0a54&hl=it&sa=X&ei=hCPIVLCmCovtO-a-gLgP&ved=0CFkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20the%20magic%20eliphas%20l%C3%A9vi&f=false

(it is very interesting put electricity etc in motor of research of this book of elifas levy)

my best regard alfr

Andro
01-28-2015, 09:06 AM
4 nature forces are known to us and 3 are discussed in this thread.

Aside from electro-magnetic and nuclear, what are the other known forces you are referring to?

Thanks.

True Initiate
01-28-2015, 09:54 AM
You mean the 4 known forces?

1. Gravity
2. Electro-magnetism
3. Weak nuclear force
4. Strong nuclear force

Well, i don't think Gravity was used in Alchemy, i mean what can you do with it?

The two nuclear forces are interesting since their manifestation is hidden in heavier metal ores and those metals were mined for millenia only the miners didn't knew what those metals were. Pitchblende was famous for being thrown away as useless ore in german harz mountains. Some alchemical texts describe similar properties of the first matter used in certain dry path's but it is so obscure and harmfull to all life forms.

Electro-magnetism makes the strongest case as a candidat for Spiritus Mundi, secret fire and the key to Alchemy simply becuase it is the only force that the ancients could have discovered without the aid of modern equipment.

Andro
01-28-2015, 10:22 AM
You mean the 4 known forces?

1. Gravity
2. Electro-magnetism
3. Weak nuclear force
4. Strong nuclear force

Yes, that's what I asked, thanks!

What about Solar/Fire/Light/Heat?

Since they're plasma-related, are they also considered EM?

(I'm not much of a scientist, so excuse my ignorance :o)

'Wahrer Alter Naturweg' clearly/plainly mentions the HEAT of Common Fire as the 'means' ('Mittel') to 'bring down and corporify' the Astral Spirit from the Heavens.

(See the chapter on the 1st Rotation. The word 'Mittel' is translated as 'Agent' in the English version, but 'Means' seems to me a slightly more representative translation.)

True Initiate
01-28-2015, 11:06 AM
I am not a scientist either but Solar/Fire/Light/Heat is electro-magnetic radiation so yes it belongs to EM. Your quote from 'Wahrer Alter Naturweg' is very similar to Fulcanelli's quote in red:

http://img194.imagevenue.com/loc102/th_37967_1_122_102lo.jpg (http://img194.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37967_1_122_102lo.jpg)
http://img192.imagevenue.com/loc386/th_37970_2_122_386lo.jpg (http://img192.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37970_2_122_386lo.jpg)

My question is which Path 'Wahrer Alter Naturweg' describes? If it is a wet path in a clasical sense with some liquid in a flask then the heat of common fire will excite the fire of crystal flask through inner pressure provided the flask was made of crystal, that is quartz. In this sense you can state that the common fire is the agent of materializing the astral spirit inside the flask.

The problem is that the notion of nature forces and especially their true causes were unknown at that time and the theories about them were not quite correct. I will give you another example:
In order to bring down Spiritus Mundi into your crucible made of iron containing magnesium and antimony separated by a salt layer you need to give fire to melt the salt and SM will descend from high heavens into your crucible.

Although this recipe will give you EM field in the crucible the SM will not descend into crucible from the high heavens but it will manifest itself between molten elecrolyte and 2 metals surrounded by a 3rd metal. See what i mean? The cause why this Spirit manifest itself under ceratin conditions were not widely understood.

Andro
01-28-2015, 11:26 AM
I am not a scientist either but Solar/Fire/Light/Heat is electro-magnetic radiation so yes it belongs to EM. Your quote from 'Wahrer Alter Naturweg' is very similar to Fulcanelli's quote in red:

http://img194.imagevenue.com/loc102/th_37967_1_122_102lo.jpg (http://img194.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37967_1_122_102lo.jpg)
http://img192.imagevenue.com/loc386/th_37970_2_122_386lo.jpg (http://img192.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=37970_2_122_386lo.jpg)

My question is which Path 'Wahrer Alter Naturweg' describes? If it is a wet path in a clasical sense with some liquid in a flask then the heat of common fire will excite the fire of crystal flask through inner pressure provided the flask was made of crystal, that is quartz. In this sense you can state that the common fire is the agent of materializing the astral spirit inside the flask.

The problem is that the notion of nature forces and especially their true causes were unknown at that time and the theories about them were not quite correct.

Hey,

Even if the theories weren't 'correct', as long as it worked, it apparently didn't really matter... How can we know if 'our' theories are correct :)

About the Fulcanelli quote, IMSU it refers to a different stage of the process, specifically the stage of rendering the Central Salt (the Philosophical Earth), not the corpororification of the Astral Spirit (Philosophical Heaven), which cannot be manufactured by Man. This 'Secret Fire' (mentioned by Fucanelli/St. Didier/Cyliani/Arthephius/Lully/etc, which is allegedly made/manufactured with some knowledge of chemistry) is merely an optional 'auxiliary' agent for the process of 'subliming' what St. Didier refers to as 'The Stone' or 'Elemental Gold' (Gold of the 2nd degree) and which I refer to as 'The Central Salt'.

I would say that the employing of the heat of common fire in the corporification of the Astral Spirit refers to 'The Other Half' of the First Matter, i.e. the Astral Spirit/Heaven as an actual Spirit/Volatile Liquid, which is subsequently imbibed upon the Philosophical Earth, its 'solid' counterpart.

Again, I.M.S.U.

But regardless, whether it's common fire or electricity/magnetism, we would generally be speaking of the same Agency in different forms, IMO.

True Initiate
01-28-2015, 06:44 PM
The realization alone that some force plays a role in alchemical process is a big step forward.

Dendritic Xylem
01-28-2015, 10:09 PM
Someday modern scientists will realize that Alchemists were the first humans to experiment with Quantum Electrodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics

QED mathematically describes all phenomena involving electrically charged particles interacting by means of exchange of photons and represents the quantum counterpart of classical electromagnetism giving a complete account of matter and light interaction.

Chasm
09-01-2016, 05:19 PM
You mean the 4 known forces?

1. Gravity
2. Electro-magnetism
3. Weak nuclear force
4. Strong nuclear force

Well, i don't think Gravity was used in Alchemy, i mean what can you do with it?

Hello all,
I'd just like to chime here. Gravity does play a role in alchemy. In plying our art, by following nature, we mimic the workings of nature within our flasks. When the spirit of our matter rises to the heavens, the tears of Diana flow down the rides of our flask by the force of gravity.
By the mediation of this force, our matter is calcined.
I agree that this is a rather simplistic view, however, complexity is often a misunderstanding of simplicity.:D
Just my thoughts.