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Awani
01-19-2015, 10:48 PM
In regards to Islam, where the word in itself means obtaining peace through total submission to the Will of God Almighty, peace and love is at its core. A perfect Muslim, i.e. an individual who is totally obedient to Allah, does not gamble, use tobacco, alcohol or drugs and is modest, honest, truthful and loving neither false nor corrupt.

I like Islam, more than Christianity... lesser of two evils (in my book)... and more beautiful for sure... for example Islamic art is as close to Sacred Geometry as you can get in a major world religion.

Today I read about what it requires to become a Muslim, and I did so with a totally open heart... and I discovered that the main issue I have with Islam is half of the first pillar. The first pillar is:

لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله


"There is no god but God..."

So far so good, but then it continues:


"...(and) Muhammad is the messenger of God."

And this is my problem with Islam. The Prophet. Of course Muhammad had to write this... he could not have made the first pillar "There is no god but God!" because then what the fuck is his function? He had to include himself (that egotistical asshole).

God does not need a messenger. God is the message. And in the end it is all these Messengers (Jesus, Muhammad etc.) that has caused all this Mess in the world. :o

So I am still a non-Muslim... but I do like the Gnosticism of Islam: Sufism


"A donkey with a load of holy books is still a donkey." - Sufism

:cool:

Illen A. Cluf
01-19-2015, 11:25 PM
does not need a messenger. God is the message. And in the end it is all these Messengers (Jesus, Muhammad etc.) that has caused all this Mess in the world. :o

So I am still a non-Muslim... but I do like the Gnosticism of Islam: Sufism:cool:

I couldn't agree more. But I like the main premise behind all forms of Gnosticism - that you can communicate with "god" directly. No intermediaries are required, or even desired. This is why it was almost wiped off the face of the Earth over the centuries by those who bathe in the egotistical power of being an intermediary.

"Jesus said, ‘If your leaders say to you, “Look, the (Father’s) kingdom is in the sky”, then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, “It is in the sea”, then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father’s) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty". [Gospel of Thomas]

Awani
01-19-2015, 11:51 PM
One reason I like pure Islam is the concept that their Temple is wherever they lay their matt to pray. No need to go to the Church on Sunday... etc.


“The happiness of the drop is to die in the river.”
― Abu Hamid al-Ghazali

:cool:

Ghislain
01-20-2015, 09:23 AM
In Islam there are many divisions. There are too many to list here, see Islamic Schools and Branches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches)

I too like the concept of Islam, but then I like the concept of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc...etc... I just don't like the way a lot of people interpret it...some through ignorance and others through a desire to rule and control. Some with good intention, but false belief...again the list goes on and on...

They are all the same, see:

Christian denominations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations )

Hindu denominations ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_denominations)

Schools of Buddhism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Buddhism)

Fuck religion and the messengers as they haven't got the message across in all these years, let's start thinking of people first as I am sure that is what all religions are trying to show us anyway...love each other...God will wait, s/he/it has all the time in the world.

Ghislain

Edit: Check out Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism)

Ghislain
01-20-2015, 10:01 AM
The Buddhist king Ashoka (304-232 BCE) is said to have ordered killings of 18,000 Jains or Ajivikas after someone drew a picture of Buddha bowing at the feet of Mahavira.

"je suis un Jainist!" ;)

Ghislain

Andro
01-20-2015, 02:48 PM
One reason I like pure Islam is the concept that their Temple is wherever they lay their mat to pray. No need to go to the Church on Sunday... etc.

I don't see an essential difference between soul-farming 'on site' (Temple) or via 'remote control' (mat, facing East/Mecca in this case).

I think we should look beyond appearances.

We are our own 'temples'.

All religions have Hermetic origins and the 'grains of truth' (for lack of a better term) that come with those origins, but they are all heavily 'corrupted' and watered down, to be used (in most cases) as instruments of control. However, I can also see why those religions are needed for a large amount of people currently inhabiting this world (as a temporary surrogate 'compass' of sorts, for example).

There's something for everyone. Gods/god/goddess/'Mother' This/'Father' That/etc...

It's all good :)

Awani
01-21-2015, 03:16 AM
II think we should look beyond appearances.

Yes, I just like that the true Muslim is freed from location unlike the Christian (generally speaking)

:cool:

Salazius
01-22-2015, 11:41 AM
When the Father/God/Sun emits its Word, the Moon/Virgin/Mother/Matrix is created, saturated with the Light of the Father it gives birth to a coagulated sulfur : the little King.

This little King, master, Muhamad, Jesus, anonymous yogis or sufis, etc etc, are the little King. Of a "royal" origin/familly. They are linked to the above and are, thus, the "messenger". Messenger of what ? Of No.thing. That's where the problem begins. People add stuff where there is no need of stuff.

Killed and resurrected, they are multiplied. They are prophets because they are "Prime" Masters. Of direct initiation from above and below. They make "masters childs", because when you drink their blood, you are initiated to their level. But you have less access to the Source than them.

Religion is a cultural view, I prefer the Natural one. Nature is my religion.

Alchemy is Nature imitated, that's why all religions are welcome in this Sacred Science.

Illen A. Cluf
01-22-2015, 05:30 PM
When the Father/God/Sun emits its Word, the Moon/Virgin/Mother/Matrix is created, saturated with the Light of the Father it gives birth to a coagulated sulfur : the little King.

This little King, master, Muhamad, Jesus, anonymous yogis or sufis, etc etc, are the little King. Of a "royal" origin/familly. They are linked to the above and are, thus, the "messenger". Messenger of what ? Of No.thing. That's where the problem begins. People add stuff where there is no need of stuff.

Killed and resurrected, they are multiplied. They are prophets because they are "Prime" Masters. Of direct initiation from above and below. They make "masters childs", because when you drink their blood, you are initiated to their level. But you have less access to the Source than them.

Religion is a cultural view, I prefer the Natural one. Nature is my religion.

Alchemy is Nature imitated, that's why all religions are welcome in this Sacred Science.

Nicely said!

Andro
01-22-2015, 05:52 PM
So basically, if we 'RE-virginize' ourselves (see thread on The Central Salt (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4178-The-Central-Salt)) and allow ourselves to be impregnated with the Original Light (see thread on Spiritus Mundi (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi)), we become Messengers :)

(I briefly mention this in the podcast/conversation that Dev and I have recently recorded, it should be published some time this year...)

Salazius
01-23-2015, 11:03 AM
Exactly.

This is basically what I presented last year in my talk (In Amsterdam's Alchemy Congress 2014) concerning the "Alchemical Yoga".

Illen A. Cluf
01-23-2015, 03:49 PM
So basically, if we 'RE-virginize' ourselves (see thread on The Central Salt (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4178-The-Central-Salt)) and allow ourselves to be impregnated with the Original Light (see thread on Spiritus Mundi (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2071-Spiritus-Mundi)), we become Messengers :)

(I briefly mention this in the podcast/conversation that Dev and I have recently recorded, it should be published some time this year...)

Yes, if by "Re-virginize" you mean that we once again attain the state we had when we were first born. In that state, you have little concept of Ego other than your natural material needs (food, nurture). You also have no prec-conceptions, experience or judgements. This is an incredibly difficult state to attain when that is your purpose, because "purpose" itself involves ego, judgement, experience, etc. As I said before, after decades of "trying", I have never achieved it. I only achieved it when NOT trying.Also, it's not exactly like being "impregnated" with light, but rather like "being" the Light. There's a huge difference.

Andro
01-23-2015, 04:11 PM
Yes, if by "Re-virginize" you mean that we once again attain the state we had when we were first born.

No, I don't mean the state we're born in. It's already a 'corrupted' or 'fallen' state, for lack of better terms. Genetics, ancestral patterns/memories, etc...

We aren't born 'virgin' at all, alchemically/spiritually/philosophically, let alone 'physically'.


Also, it's not exactly like being "impregnated" with light, but rather like "being" the Light.

The blank sheet of paper (Involution -> Ph. Earth) is not the story. It needs to be be 'impregnated' with the Author's Ink (Evolution -> Ph. Heaven) :)

_______
I.M.S.U.

Salazius
01-23-2015, 04:53 PM
We consider in Yoga that the seeds of karma are present in the nadis. All over the bodies.

By a proper spiritual discipine, or, ingesting the white Stone for example, we can dissolve all the seeds of karma. We are washed and "Virgin". This is the "baptism". By the holy water.

After that, the Sun's Lights comes in and make the "anointing".