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Wigwamman
04-05-2015, 06:30 PM
good day to you all again :)

i did some interesting experiments on DSS and i wanted to share some of my results,..

i was playing with some NaOH and found something interesting,

what i did was the folowing,

i took some DSS and added some water to it + some HCL
i let this digest on room temp for 3 days,
after that i took the ph to 13 slowly, and back down to 1 again, and once again to ph 13, now after the swing i digested it for a nother 2 days, all Mg and Ca were out of solution, but it seemed the Manna was still in solution, the solution was filtert, and Mg and Ca were removed,
the solution was slowly ajusted to a neutral ph, and left to sit for 1 day,

now the ph is brought to 8.5, and a precipitate was formed, this is moslty manna, now here i did a boil for 2 hours, and this seems to be the key to allow the following to happen, when the solution was still hot, i added fresh hcl, the solution formed a layer, of green color, after mixing very well the solution become yellow to green in color, but the manna did not dissolve again, "not in the usual way anyway"
now i set this solution in the distillation apperatus and distilled it, at about 80c there came over a yellow liquid, "very small amount", and the solution in the heating flask became clear again,
i added some more hcl to it and the same thing happent again,
now this yellow greenish liquid was distilled to make it as pure as posible, it distilled clean, i added abit of hcl to this yellow liquid and it turned a bright green color...

it seems that this liquid is very unstable as it droped out some manna after a day, and turned back to yellow and even clear solution, some strange things to note are that the smell of hcl was gone in the flask even though i added a quite concentrated hcl to it,

not sure way this is so unstable, i will make some more and see if i can make it more stable by adding some sodium chloride to it, someone els maybe a idea..?

i wanted to charge the solution by some circulation in a very wel closed and luted flask on a hotplate in a water bath but this droped it out even faster, so it might have something to do with B fields, as the bfield in a hotplate is quite in unballance.

some conclusions of this experiment are:

-the manna is solutble in a solution that is highly alkaline with NaOH.
-boiling the manna seems to fix it,
-adding hcl to the fixed manna will allow a eagle flight.
-the resulting solution is very unstable..
-if my understanding is correct of alchemy this would be a crude alkahest of salt.

things to try.

-using true spitit of salt instead of using labgrade hcl might give it more life "charge" and allow for more stability
-see if this works with NaCO3 or better potash as wel,


if someone hes some ideas on what to try to hold it stable then that would be great !!

kind regards...

theFool
04-05-2015, 10:58 PM
It seems that DSS salt has a lot to teach us. So ..



after that i took the ph to 13 slowly, and back down to 1 again, and once again to ph 13, now after the swing i digested it for a nother 2 days, all Mg and Ca were out of solution, but it seemed the Manna was still in solution, the solution was filtert, and Mg and Ca were removed,
the solution was slowly ajusted to a neutral ph, and left to sit for 1 day,

now the ph is brought to 8.5, and a precipitate was formed, this is moslty manna, now here i did a boil for 2 hours, and this seems to be the key to allow the following to happen You propose here a new method of isolating ormus. Precipitating at almost neutral pH is a method that is follwed in Hudson's orme patent too. Do you think that his "manna" you precipitate is similar to the "manna" produced by your H2O2 method? If yes, it could save us from acquiring the H2O2.


now this yellow greenish liquid was distilled to make it as pure as posible, it distilled clean, i added abit of hcl to this yellow liquid and it turned a bright green color...

it seems that this liquid is very unstable as it droped out some manna after a day, and turned back to yellow and even clear solution, .. If I get it right, the liquid that "droped out some manna" was the distillate? You mean that "manna" passed over the "helm", into the distillate? Quite interesting.

I remember, I had observed some similar effects with ormus precipitating out or being dissolved again in solution according to temperature.

Also, I would like to point out that HCl acid, even when it is technical grade, it might have enough contaminants in it. They can give to it a green color when concentrated. I had evaporated my (double distilled) HCl in steam bath and near the end, I got a bright green liquid! This could be volatile iron chloride contaminant that was coming over into the distillate with normal distillation, but when using a steam bath, it stayed behind. I have stopped DSS experiments mainly due to this observation; I didn't know how pure the HCl was and distillation couldn't purify it. For a better way of purifying it, I should have used an outgassing method. So, I didn't know if the green color came from DSS or the HCl..

I will try, when time and conditions permit, to follow and verify your observations on isolating the "manna" at pH 8,5.
I will wait also your input on how clean the HCl you use is.

Thanks for this report, I'm always glad to read about your experimental adventures :)

Wigwamman
04-05-2015, 11:48 PM
hallo and good day The Fool,



You propose here a new method of isolating ormus. Precipitating at almost neutral pH is a method that is follwed in Hudson's orme patent too. Do you think that his "manna" you precipitate is similar to the "manna" produced by your H2O2 method? If yes, it could save us from acquiring the H2O2.


indeed mr Hudson's did something simular, if i remember correct he used a neutral ph for a day to break the NaAu bond to a Au bond if some sort,

some things i observed were that there was allot of salt produced in the process of adding hcl to the boiled manna, so my thoughts were that maybe the NaAu bond was broken down into a Au(prob some Cl bond) leving NaCl.

i found that the amount of hcl added was not proposional to the amount distilled back of, this was determent by the color of the solution as it would clear up,
other thing was the liquid obtained after distillation did not smell of hcl, and the heating flask did not ether, so it was gone mosly
when the liquid comes over at first in the first part of the distillation head it look almost red, but when looking closer its more of a yellow, only after adding new hcl it will become green,

im not quite sure if this is the same as the one with my h2o2 method, as it was allot more stable, and this h2o2 manna gave a yellow goop as well, and i did not get this here, so im not sure if this is the same, i do see allot of potensiol in this though, as the h2o2 is expencive, and it seemed after number of experimentations that i needed some specific h2o2, or it would not work, i would get the precipitate but it did not have any color to it, no yellow stage no green stage so i kind of abendend the project as it was to expencive and quite time comsuming, did find some interesting things though, by only using the NaHCO3 and no h2o2 i could do intersting things with the manna, made a extreem potented solutions no solids in it, one drop and it gave a good buzz, was very salty but kind of like salty licorice, it was quite nice actualy,


If I get it right, the liquid that "droped out some manna" was the distillate? You mean that "manna" passed over the "helm", into the distillate? Quite interesting.

jup you are reading correct, it passes over the helm, and it fly's like a eagle ;)



I remember, I had observed some similar effects with ormus precipitating out or being dissolved again in solution according to temperature.

Also, I would like to point out that HCl acid, even when it is technical grade, it might have enough contaminants in it. They can give to it a green color when concentrated. I had evaporated my (double distilled) HCl in steam bath and near the end, I got a bright green liquid! This could be volatile iron chloride contaminant that was coming over into the distillate with normal distillation, but when using a steam bath, it stayed behind. I have stopped DSS experiments mainly due to this observation; I didn't know how pure the HCl was and distillation couldn't purify it. For a better way of purifying it, I should have used an outgassing method. So, I didn't know if the green color came from DSS or the HCl..

interesting ... i did allot of distillations on it before and it never turned a different color, so i know my hcl is quite pure, and in the experiment the color did not change to green from yellow after addid more 30 procent hcl to it, in a sens diluting the solution, though is i showed above, im not quite sure if the stuff that comes over is actualy hcl, or just some strange Au bonding that is very volatile, as it does not smell like it,



I will try, when time and conditions permit, to follow and verify your observations on isolating the "manna" at pH 8,5.
I will wait also your input on how clean the HCl you use is.


awesome !! i would sugest using quite abit of salt, as the amount of manna obtained is quite low, this could very well be solved by solving ;) and ph swings but this needs to be looked at, as i did not do that yet :)
i hope the above showed that this is prob not duo to impuraties of the hcl. :)

(note)
some thing i wanted to try is to add some silver colloids to the boiled and then cleaned manna, an see what that will do, i might very well be charge related that the manna changes to a other state, as silver colloids are highly charged, and is a good seed metal, so i wonder what would happen..


Thanks for this report, I'm always glad to read about your experimental adventures

Hehe thats awesome to here :) as im always glad to share them!

kind regards...

Ghislain
04-06-2015, 07:26 AM
If you are swinging the Ph with HCl and NaOH does that not in itself produce NaCl?

Ghislain

Wigwamman
04-06-2015, 11:14 AM
hello and good day..

indeed it does.. difference is that the solution does the same when the manna is washed ,
which is interesting, leving only sodium chloride behind...

+ when the hcl is added to the solution there is no exsess NaOH in solution so it would not form NaCl in that way, so it rely seems that the manna looses its Na bond,


kind regards

Bennu
04-09-2015, 10:39 PM
Hi, Wigwamman.
Have you ever tried to make monatomic gold from metallic gold, rather than DSS? I stopped using DSS thinking that starting with .9999 Au would better help avoid unknown compounds contaminating the process.
Best regards.

Wigwamman
04-10-2015, 12:36 PM
hay and good day Bennu,

i did not try to make i with gold allone yet, this may come in the future, and indeed that would avoid hussel of cleaning the material, but in the sens i like it this way hihi, in a way its nice to know how to clean the stuff you dont want out, and get what u want out of it, as there is allot of the good stuff in like limestone or sea salt, so thought it would be a waist of money to buy gold if i can mine it from a natrual source, it teatches me allot about all the other minirals as well, knowing there properties, and knowing the properties of the manna, as doing experiments with with manna instead of using gold is allot cheaper, and as its the same thuff, only les charged way not use it now that i know how to isolate it,

here is some eye candy of lovely manna sufate crystals.. these are from limestone

http://s11.postimg.org/ug0p8wzxv/IMG_20150409_161424.jpg

kind regards

Bennu
04-11-2015, 03:25 AM
Hi, Wigwamman.
I have read a lot of your posts on monatomics and fully appreciate your last one about knowing how to separate out various compounds. That makes excellent sense. As I get back into my lab I will share my results with the forum.
Bennu.

Ghislain
04-11-2015, 09:16 AM
WWM I had a similar result in my experiment (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3780-messing-about-with-iron.) with iron. It came to me where you refer to your material as Manna. In the video below the end result was like a flat bread. maybe that is what was referred to as manna from heaven.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rod2NipcpuA&feature=youtu.be

Ghislain

theFool
04-11-2015, 01:09 PM
i took some DSS and added some water to it + some HCL
i let this digest on room temp for 3 days,
after that i took the ph to 13 slowly, and back down to 1 again, and once again to ph 13, now after the swing i digested it for a nother 2 days, all Mg and Ca were out of solution, but it seemed the Manna was still in solution, the solution was filtert, and Mg and Ca were removed,
the solution was slowly ajusted to a neutral ph, and left to sit for 1 day,

now the ph is brought to 8.5, and a precipitate was formed, this is moslty manna, This method also, is very similar (uses the same principles) to the "Method 4" of isolating clean ormus according to subtleenergies website: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/ormus/ormus3.htm#METHOD%204

Wigwamman
04-13-2015, 02:20 PM
hay there and good day..

The Fool, indeed it looks allot like that process, there are some key differences though, as the method described at the link u posted did not work for me,
im my first post here i made some misstakes to as there is something more to it stil

i had great problems getting the manna out of solution, somtimes it came out of solution and sometimes it did not, while using NaOH, after experimentation it seemed it was tempreture related..

here is the compeet guide to what i have done, and this seems to give pure white manna, very fluffy and tens to flote to the surface of the solution,

i did this with limestone but this could be done the same with DSS. or any other salt,

take some limestone and burn it in a hot fire, to calcine it very well, this allows for the removal of orgenic oils and other volatile heavy metals, (this stap can be neglected when using DSS) then this was cooled and dissolved in HCL and digested for 2 weeks, ph was rased to 13 and it was allowed to sit for a day, then the solution was filtered and the solution was made neutral, now here we will experiance some strange stuff,
maintain a cool solution do this with ice or just slowy add NaOH solution to bring the ph up to 8.5, when using limestone this will precipitate some stuf, it will be a brownish colored precipitate, this Fe and Al the solution was filtered, DSS will not precipitate anything ( i washed the brownish stuff one time and the wash was added to the solution)

now the thing that we need to do is heat the solution to boiling point, this will precipitate a wonderfull white manna, boil the solution for 2 hours, to fix it, or it will redissolve again, let it cool and it will form a wonderfull fluffy precipitate that tents to want to flote to the surfase,

the key here is the digestion and the heating of the solution at the right time in the process, the nice thing about this is that it can be very very easly seperated from the stuff that we dont want, as the precipitate only wants to come out on high temp, and this does not go for the Fe or Al or Ca Mg,

it will also precipitate if the solution is hot and then NaOH is added but it still needs to be boild to be fixed, if not it will redissolve again when the solution cools,

be sure to take care in the strangth of the NaOH solution u are using as you will go over the ph very very quicly, so use a very diluded solution of NaOH in the last titration stage, if all this is done then u will obtain pure white manna.

here is the starting material,
http://s23.postimg.org/mt56f3qln/IMG_20150413_160145.jpg

this is what i looks when dissolved in hcl, pritty nasty eh..
http://s11.postimg.org/gek2mbf5f/IMG_20150413_160120.jpg

some picturs of the pure manna..
http://s23.postimg.org/4o6069v8r/IMG_20150413_160058.jpg

http://s18.postimg.org/hcm3uep89/IMG_20150413_155944.jpg
http://s27.postimg.org/3rteextyr/IMG_20150413_160007.jpg

kind regards,

theFool
04-13-2015, 07:19 PM
take some limestone and burn it in a hot fire, to calcine it very well, this allows for the removal of orgenic oils and other volatile heavy metals
Calcination is a vital step in alchemy when you work with plant ash also, probably it helps to liberate the "ormus" from other common salts.



now the thing that we need to do is heat the solution to boiling point, this will precipitate a wonderfull white manna, boil the solution for 2 hours, to fix it, or it will redissolve again, let it cool and it will form a wonderfull fluffy precipitate that tents to want to flote to the surfase,

You nailed it :cool:



here is the starting material, is that common dirt? The red color (when you dissolve it in acid) appears due to iron content or is it from "ormus"?

I guess the same process can be used on plant ash, so it seems that you demystified the process in this thread here too (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4138-The-Alchemical-Keys-to-Masonic-Ritual). Great ...

Now I got curious about the characteristic properties of the "manna" you describe. When you dissolve it in HCl acid and give it a little heat will it turn green.. Will it revert back to transparent color when cooled.. (This is how m-gold behaves)

amoodikh
04-13-2015, 08:32 PM
hay and good day Bennu,

i did not try to make i with gold allone yet, this may come in the future, and indeed that would avoid hussel of cleaning the material, but in the sens i like it this way hihi, in a way its nice to know how to clean the stuff you dont want out, and get what u want out of it, as there is allot of the good stuff in like limestone or sea salt, so thought it would be a waist of money to buy gold if i can mine it from a natrual source, it teatches me allot about all the other minirals as well, knowing there properties, and knowing the properties of the manna, as doing experiments with with manna instead of using gold is allot cheaper, and as its the same thuff, only les charged way not use it now that i know how to isolate it,

here is some eye candy of lovely manna sufate crystals.. these are from limestone

http://s11.postimg.org/ug0p8wzxv/IMG_20150409_161424.jpg

kind regards

Beautiful work Wigwamman. Have you tried to imbibe your hairy salt with alchemical mercury in a closed flask. The point is to get it to form a paste or honey-like substance as considered a step towards the stone by some alchemists, I guess.

Kind regards
amoodikh

Wigwamman
04-13-2015, 09:25 PM
hi! there and good day again,


Calcination is a vital step in alchemy when you work with plant ash also, probably it helps to liberate the "ormus" from other common salts.

indeed i do beleve this as well, it will work without the calcination though, it will only have the oils inside when extracting and its hard to get rit of it later on in the process,

so this is way i calcined in the first place, i could try and see if this will decrese the digestion time though, this could give inside in if it would help libberate the manna or not,


You nailed it

Haha indeed, quite exiting actualy hihi afer all the experiments i now have what i want :)



is that common dirt? The red color (when you dissolve it in acid) appears due to iron content or is it from "ormus"?

no this is the limestone i used hehe, its lawnlime. :P
and i think the color is duo iron yes, as its realy dirty stuff, i cant imagine that this would be of the manna, as it hes so match crap inside of it.
btw. i used only a small amount of this red liquid for experimentation, about 200ml of the 2.5L i have, so the yield will be allot bigger when all of it is used.
http://s3.postimg.org/9anovxh6r/IMG_20141015_143644.jpg


I guess the same process can be used on plant ash, so it seems that you demystified the process in this thread here too. Great ...

this will have to be tested, but i think this would work yes, :)
it seems the audio is stript from the vid so i cant watch it but i will read the thread and see what this mystfied stuff is that u are refuring to hihi glad to have demystified it though ;)


Now I got curious about the characteristic properties of the "manna" you describe. When you dissolve it in HCl acid and give it a little heat will it turn green.. Will it revert back to transparent color when cooled.. (This is how m-gold behaves)

well when its fixed it seems to be fixed, so it seems not to want to dissolve at all,
it will however form a greenish solution, this was done when the solution was hot, so im not sure if this happens when its cold, i will have to do some testing on that, (in the first post is explained what happent when hcl was added to the manna when it was fixed, as i could distill something from it) when the manna is not yet fixed, then i will no nothing, no color change, just a clear solution.
i will do testing with ascetic acid as well, and see if this will do anything with the fixed manna. i will try and do the same when it is not fixed and see what this may do,

i do have a idea that it might wants to dry distill when its a ascetate crystall, it seems that ascetic acid is used allot for that perpose, so it will be a good experiment to do,


Beautiful work Wigwamman. Have you tried to imbibe your hairy salt with alchemical mercury in a closed flask. The point is to get it to form a paste or honey-like substance as considered a step towards the stone by some alchemists, I guess.

amoodikh

thank u :) and no i have not tryed this yet, i have a few experiments i like to try with this, one is to use wine spirit to see if i can pull a ticture from it,
and as i explaied above i might want to dry distill the ascetate crystal, and see if i can obtain a mercury and a sulfur from it, if this can be done then yes i will try to imbibe it with the 2 components and see if this will do something,

kind regards.

theFool
04-13-2015, 09:40 PM
it seems the audio is stript from the vid so i cant watch it hm, no, the audio works, it is not silenced. I'm sure the video will give you ideas..

Thanks for your great sharing attitude and your detailed answers :)

Bennu
04-13-2015, 11:05 PM
I was told by one of the original discoverers that, when present in an acid solution, most monatomic Au precipitates out upon raising the pH to 5.0. Going up to pH 8.5 might be dragging other compounds into the monatomic Au.
Also, look at the subtleenergies link above. Can anyone please tell me what a "gilcrest" (or even "Gilchrist") precipitate is? Google "gilcrest precipitate" and you get a self-referring ormus loop. The number of times I have looked, I have never found an independent definition of it. Is it a alchemical reference?

Wigwamman
04-13-2015, 11:18 PM
hi there and good day..


I was told by one of the original discoverers that, when present in an acid solution, most monatomic Au precipitates out upon raising the pH to 5.0. Going up to pH 8.5 might be dragging other compounds into the monatomic Au.
Also, look at the subtleenergies link above. Can anyone please tell me what a "gilcrest" (or even "Gilchrist") precipitate is? Google "gilcrest precipitate" and you get a self-referring ormus loop. The number of times I have looked, I have never found an independent definition of it. Is it a alchemical reference?


wel the gilchist stuff is supose to be stuff that u dont want, dont know way they call it that way though,
about the ph, i have boiild the solution at that ph (5) and it did not precipitate anything, only when i go to a 8-8.5 will it do that,
and in the way that this is extracted there is nothing more in the solution than the manna, so no nasty stuff that we dont want will come with it,
as first the Mg and Ca are removed and everything els that precipitates at ph 13, some other stuff will redissolve, like Al and iron, Mn will to, now this is removed in the stap were we have the ph 8.5, as this drops out every thing that was in there, only after heating and boiling will the manna come out, so no gilchist precipitates will be in here, only manna :)
little question though..? who are the original discoverers according to you..? :)
as to mee this stuff is bin here and known about for centuries.


theFool

Quote Originally Posted by Wigwamman View Post
it seems the audio is stript from the vid so i cant watch it
hm, no, the audio works, it is not silenced. I'm sure the video will give you ideas..

Thanks for your great sharing attitude and your detailed answers




aaa ic it seems to only not give audio on the forum when linked to youtube i have sound, seems to be a small prob with my audiodriver :P
i will watch it now Thanks!!

and awesome!!


kind regards..

Bennu
04-14-2015, 02:45 AM
Now I got curious about the characteristic properties of the "manna" you describe. When you dissolve it in HCl acid and give it a little heat will it turn green.. Will it revert back to transparent color when cooled.. (This is how m-gold behaves)

Just curious where you found the information that orme gold turns green with heat and back to transparent when cooled. I have never seen that behavior mentioned in thousands of pages. Do you know how much is a "little heat"?

Bennu
04-14-2015, 02:53 AM
Hi wigwamman.
(DH told me about the pH 5.0 at lunch.)
Also, I researched some more on "Gilchrist precipitate" It apparently refers to PhD chemist Raleigh Gilchrist, who in the first half of the 20th century was the US Government's leading expert on Platinum group metals. I have downloaded a couple hundred pages of his research papers on hydrolytic precipitation of the PGM's. If I can identify what exactly a "Gilchrist precipitate" is, and its characteristics, I will post them for the forum.

theFool
04-14-2015, 05:41 AM
Just curious where you found the information that orme gold turns green with heat and back to transparent when cooled. I have never seen that behavior mentioned in thousands of pages. Do you know how much is a "little heat"? Have observed it in orme gold that was produced by this method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm8IKtIhMnI

The "little heat" was below the boiling point of the water.

You are right there are no references in the ormus "literature". But if I remember well there is a claim that the m-gold takes a "green grass" color.

Dendritic Xylem
04-14-2015, 10:22 AM
Hi wigwamman.
(DH told me about the pH 5.0 at lunch.)
Also, I researched some more on "Gilchrist precipitate" It apparently refers to PhD chemist Raleigh Gilchrist, who in the first half of the 20th century was the US Government's leading expert on Platinum group metals. I have downloaded a couple hundred pages of his research papers on hydrolytic precipitation of the PGM's. If I can identify what exactly a "Gilchrist precipitate" is, and its characteristics, I will post them for the forum.

Wow....
This is huge...

I was convinced that the term was just fabricated by the relatively unscientific ormus community. Thank you for proving me wrong. Please start a dedicated thread about this if you don't mind...I think it is extremely important information considering it seems to be completely unknown to the ormus 'experts'.

Wigwamman
04-20-2015, 05:20 PM
hallo and good day


hm, no, the audio works, it is not silenced. I'm sure the video will give you ideas..

Thanks for your great sharing attitude and your detailed answers :)

i have watched the vid, and indeed a very interesting vid, and indeed it gave me some idea's :cool:. like what the acid is that he is refuring to in the vid that alows it be a transmuting substance for metals,
as well the 3-4-5 ratio whas usefull info :) i had thought of the pathgarian triangle but not know what principle was what, but after i know now it makes sens,

http://wondersmith.com/rants/345.gif

4 being the horizantal line or earth in a way it can represent a box or housing "4 being a grounding number" 3 being the vertical line or the volatile "3 on its own is a very special number, and the 5 being the thing that connects the fixed and the volatile together, being the number of groth, as phi can be dirived from it, the number that is every where there is life. the dodecehedron is made from exhaling geomatry of the number 5 as well,

so i must thank u for sharing the vid The fool, loved it ;)


kind regards ..

Wigwamman
04-21-2015, 06:32 PM
hello and good day to you all,

as promist i would do some calcination experiments on the pure manna to see what the effect were, what i noticed was this..

when i had the pure air dryed manna it lookt very white, with a slight hu on it(hinting to a pinkish color), this may be duo not filtering the solution is one stap but desending it(as i did not have filter paper that could handle the high ph), allowing some of the impuraties that came with it to be precipitate with the manna,
i added some to a test tube and, started heating the tube, the powder first turnt to a dark gray color, after more heat it turnt up to a lighter gray color, i could not get it to become white again be more or longer heat, if i can give as a comparison as my camara is broken to a pic in the DH petant, that showed the heated powder, gray in color,

after the experiment i tryed to dissolve the powder in hcl, this took allot of hcl to dissolve the calcined manna again, it also left a black fluffy stuff that did not want to dissolve, it hehaved allot like a normal precipitate so im not sure what it is .. after filtering and drying the black stuff was gray in color, after reprecipitation of the hcl solution it turned white again, this powder was washed and calcined again, this time the powder would stay white.
i did not observe any dry distillation properties as far as i could tell there are no volatiles relesed from it,


kind regards..

theFool
04-21-2015, 08:45 PM
Thanks for the report Wigwamman. It could be that dried or calcined m-gold does dissolve in HCl, contrary to what ormus literature perpetrates. Maybe, only the properly calined powder does not dissolve.

theFool
05-01-2015, 01:10 PM
http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/13/27/64/97/calcin11.png

Wigwamman, inside the DSS slurry there is a lot of manna but hidden. You can see the difference of HCl extraction on wet slurry (left) and calcined slurry (right).

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/13/27/64/97/calcin10.png

The essential 3-weeks lengthy HCl digestion you perform, can liberate a good amount but probably not all. That is why you get much more manna from lime, because you calcine him first.

Also, True Initiate, this explains why the plant salts are very well calcined first before proceeding to the extraction of the secret salt. ;)

The green liquid above, can be further processed according to wigwamman's method and give clean manna.

Bennu
05-11-2015, 05:07 AM
This method also, is very similar (uses the same principles) to the "Method 4" of isolating clean ormus according to subtleenergies website: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/ormus/ormus3.htm#METHOD%204

Hi, the Fool.
This is not a challenge to your alchemical expertise. Can you relate why you think the results of following Method 4 resulted in ormes? Are there tests you know of that can ID real ormes once produced? In my wanderings in the chemistry of ormes, I have been told two things. 1) PH swings do not create ormes. 2) The subtleenergies web site posts many inaccuracies. Best. Bennu.

theFool
05-11-2015, 08:22 AM
Hi, the Fool.
This is not a challenge to your alchemical expertise. Can you relate why you think the results of following Method 4 resulted in ormes? Are there tests you know of that can ID real ormes once produced? In my wanderings in the chemistry of ormes, I have been told two things. 1) PH swings do not create ormes. 2) The subtleenergies web site posts many inaccuracies. Best. Bennu. Hello, no problem as I'm not expert on anything, I just write my thoughts in various threads. About the rest of your questions, I answer in private.

theFool
06-20-2015, 03:51 PM
now the ph is brought to 8.5, and a precipitate was formed, this is moslty manna, now here i did a boil for 2 hours, and this seems to be the key to allow the following to happen, One could bring the pH at 8.5 using baking soda, neutralizing the acidic solution. No matter how much you put in it, the pH will stay around 9. Thus you avoid using a pH meter.
Then perform the boiling to precipitate the so called "manna".

Wigwamman
02-28-2016, 01:27 PM
http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/13/27/64/97/calcin11.png

Wigwamman, inside the DSS slurry there is a lot of manna but hidden. You can see the difference of HCl extraction on wet slurry (left) and calcined slurry (right).

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/13/27/64/97/calcin10.png

The essential 3-weeks lengthy HCl digestion you perform, can liberate a good amount but probably not all. That is why you get much more manna from lime, because you calcine him first.

Also, True Initiate, this explains why the plant salts are very well calcined first before proceeding to the extraction of the secret salt. ;)

The green liquid above, can be further processed according to wigwamman's method and give clean manna.


hallo and good day...

its bin a long time since i posted and have done some more discovery's

first of all, in the begining of my experiments with manna i did a ph 10.5 extraction on DSS and then washed the resulting precipitate, then calcined it and redisolved it, this gave indeed a green solution, as of that time i did not know of the properties that i would dissolve again under some condisions, awesome to see that u did the same and added the described method to it, this is way less expencive then the one i use now,

as if one digests pure dss with about 30% hcl and then just cover the salt, the hcl will act as a magnet to attract the manna and will turn gras green, setting it digest in sunlight and on some heat will intensify the color, thiscan then be taken of and made alkaline and do the described method on it to obtain some manna, but not allot, i do like to see the difference between the 2 so i might do a controled experiment to see what the resulting yeilds would be, a other thing is that if one distills the hcl solution on will distill over a purple color hcl solution, the solution in the heating flask will turn clear, the purple solution will drop out a small amount of white manna over the corce of some days, and looses its color, its very difficuld to keep stable, these are the same results i obtained with the fuly isolated manna and adding hcl to it. so hcl seems to be a magnet for manna in when its in sea salts, which is logical in the sens that the mercury of salt is actualy HCL, i must add to this, that in all these experiments soler charged hcl was used.


so i will reproduce your experiment, and see what the result is, compared to the other one i use now, as i think u are right in that calcination does free up the manna, though it is inportand not to heat it up to match or the manna will evaporate, as when i calcine the limestone in a pot in a to hot of a fire it will loos the manna, as i was unable to obtain any afterwords,
the thing that needs to be chacked though if this still happens when the lime stone is dissolved and then brought to ph 10.5 and then calcined as this might tel us something about the state the manna is stored in in its natrual from, is it in free form or not,

Wigwamman
03-07-2016, 07:37 PM
Hello and good day again




The essential 3-weeks lengthy HCl digestion you perform, can liberate a good amount but probably not all. That is why you get much more manna from lime, because you calcine him first.

Also, True Initiate, this explains why the plant salts are very well calcined first before proceeding to the extraction of the secret salt. ;)

The green liquid above, can be further processed according to wigwamman's method and give clean manna.

after doing some experiments i can say that this is correct i have observed the same thing, i did no digestion and calcined it good and it worked great,
i also did some tests relating to ph and it seems that ph 8.5 is the ph to precipitate on in the last step of the process, lower will not precipitate, only H2SO4 can precipitate it at low ph,
i also observed a green solution when boiling the manna out, sadly i do not have the end product, as i was boiling it of in a stone pan and i thinnk the heat was just abit to match, as i blow up in my face, so i will have to redo the controle to see what the % yeild will be.

note; The precipitate that is formed with H2SO4 is NOT calcium sulfate, as it will disslve readely in hcl , and when boiled in fuming H2SO4 it will form the crystals as shown.

http://s11.postimg.org/ug0p8wzxv/IMG_20150409_161424.jpg
(old photo)

kind regards

theFool
03-07-2016, 07:54 PM
note; The precipitate that is formed with H2SO4 is NOT calcium sulfate, as it will disslve readely in hcl , and when boiled in fuming H2SO4 it will form the crystals as shown.
Dissolve them in stong HCl and give a little heat; does the solution turn green?

Nice to see you back here :cool:

Wigwamman
03-07-2016, 08:32 PM
Ola DF

its nice to be back,

and yes it will turn grass green,
heating intesifies the color...

kind regards.

Wigwamman
03-18-2016, 12:03 PM
Hello and good day to you all again..

just wanted to share some results, with you all
as DF surgested calcining the hydroxides and redisolving them, and then rising the ph to 13 >
this worked very well, i did some tests and it seems that not even a drop wise adition is needed while adding Naoh solution to it, this safes some time, i also did a experiment boiling off the solution under neutral ph (ph 7) this did not precipitate any thing, it did however leave a solids of sodium chloride and manna solids these were dryed on heat, redissolving these solids in deionized water dissolved the sodium chloride but left behind the manna, i tested to see if there was still manna left in solution by adding some salfuric acid and it did nothing to the solution, it did not precipitate any thing, so this seems to show that the solution was free of manna, as in previeus experiments it showed that it would precipitate the manna by adding a bunch of H2SO4,
i could not get a good color indication this time as i used brown filter paper and the NaOH solution leatched some of the filter and the sample was contaminated,

now the question is is this manna combined with its sulfur or is this still inside the wash water, and if so how is this to be seperated. in my bakingsode method with h2o2 i obtained a yellow goopy stuff from DSS and if i handeled it right it would be combine with the manna and give a white snow, this gave the strongest manna i ever made, but as this method is quite complex and quite expencive as well, i hope to find a beter way of obtaining the same stuff, in the bakingsoda experimetns it seemed that the sulfur part was still inside of the crystals, so this will be the first i will go and chack if i can pull out somehow its sulfur, and if not it should be somehere in the wash water,

kind regards, WWM