PDA

View Full Version : Infinite or Finite



Awani
04-14-2015, 09:36 PM
Is everything infinite or finite?

Is there ever an end or eternal reincarnation?

Todays answer is:

An end is possible if one wants the illusion of the finite in the illusionary reality of the infinite. Regardless, when the/an end is reached more space/time is rendered and amnesia is added or removed (depending on what effect is required).

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/3387551_10371027_lz_zps9ishrnp5.jpg

:cool:

Michael Sternbach
04-14-2015, 10:11 PM
Every end is a new beginning.

Andro
04-14-2015, 11:53 PM
Every end is a new beginning.

Until it's not :)

Besides, these are dualistic concepts... Increasingly difficult for me to relate...

Awani
04-15-2015, 12:00 AM
Besides, these are dualistic concepts...

If you refer to M.S. ok, but if you refer to this whole thread then that is not what I wrote:


An end is possible if one wants the illusion of the finite in the illusionary reality of the infinite...

In other words there is neither finite or infinite, only the illusion of either one and if the "I" wants finite amnesia or blindness might occur, whereas if the "I" wants infinite then behold the rendering of new space/time...

But neither exist... all dreams can be infinite or finite, but regardless it is a dream (or a data stream). The dualism is illusionary.

:cool:

Andro
04-15-2015, 07:11 AM
'When' (!) there is no Time, in the 'realm' of the UN-Knowable, concepts like finite/infinite are not an issue. They not even 'are', let alone 'issue' :)

So I suppose I would agree, if words meant anything in this case :)

Of course 'I' very much lack the experience of passing through the Gates of Paradox and 'moving' between the Knowable and the UN-Knowable... Which is in itself a topic that fascinates me...

Maybe this 'Passing through the Gates of Paradox' is where the amnesia you mentioned kicks in :)


If you refer to M.S. ok, but if you refer to this whole thread then that is not what I wrote:

In other words there is neither finite or infinite, only the illusion of either one and if the "I" wants finite amnesia or blindness might occur, whereas if the "I" wants infinite then behold the rendering of new space/time...

But neither exist... all dreams can be infinite or finite, but regardless it is a dream (or a data stream). The dualism is illusionary.

Awani
04-15-2015, 08:46 AM
Yes words are not ideal. Wisdom can only be beheld or experienced, but this is a forum. This is one reason I have increased the use of images. Not because of a lack of literacy, but because it is true that a photo speaks a thousand words.

:cool:

Bel Matina
05-08-2015, 06:38 AM
Words don't represent experiences, but divisions within them. Each word is then a line, and each line piles up to be countably many. Experience, though, is uncountable, as demonstrated by Zeno and many others before and after. No piling up of words will catch your experience. Words can only point.

Androgynus: the unknowable is closer to you than your eyes and your skin. It's not so much a matter of moving between as a matter of bringing them together. Birthing the Hermaphrodite. The Man is dominated by the Woman and then dominates her. Cast the words out to scatter on the sea, and when their echo comes back on the waves they have the force that brings light.

Avatar
06-14-2015, 04:10 AM
Have to be attentive when discussing concepts.
Time is a concept.
Just like zero is a concept and 1-9 are the actual numbers.

To know.
Is to remember.

To experience an then remember happens quickly.

To have no memory, is the unknown.

Man constantly remembers and forgets.
Every night you sleep and forget everything.
Upon waking you remember.
Awareness, or specifically self awareness is synonymous with attention.
Mental attention is extremely limited.
Humans are pilots in the cockpit of a jet.
Attention is the pilot.
The body is the jet.
Unite the two.
This is an old goal.
Also an extreme one.
Every night you sleep, the attention is united with the body,yet you loose self awareness.
This is a physiological function.
So. Replicate those same movements without the impulse to sleep.
I believe the east calls this samadhi, nirvana,the tao.
The west calls it hypnosis.
The issue has always been loss of consciousness.
The mainstream word kundalini refers to the spark gap effect of the body; this force is brought about via manipulation of vagus nerve ganglia (sympathetic and parasympathetic).

[These ganglia connect to the carotid arteries heavily.
The sound of breathing is made by pressure fluctuating in the throat upon the vocal chords.

Breath. Control pressure and use to stimulate blood flow of carotid arteries. Change in blood flow and pressure stimulates the nerves attached (vagus nerve ganglia),
When done right, the condition of the spark gap ( kundalini) forms.
This spark gap does not manifest In alert waking state of mind.
A slight alteration in mental state *trance* is needed.
A trance happens any time you fixate your attention on something. It is likened to zoning out or zoning in.
Samadhi/nirvana/the tao are names for the final form of controlled trance. Hypnosis has also been known to *throw* people into these states.

Cultivate samadhi to enter the unknown/unconscious willingly (not through sleep) and cultivate the spark gap, in this way you stay conscious while in unconsciousness.
The knowing enters the unknown.
The mind rides the dragon through the gate of unknowing, in this way, you come out the other side.
This is two thirds of physiological alchemy.
The last third is utilization of attention upon the feeling of emotion in the body located often at the solar plexus area below the sternum.
This center of emotion is the heart of mind and IS the very vagus nerve itself. This heart of mind which is the nerves of the vagus in the solar plexus runs right up into the memory and Feely part of the brain.
This is you ;)
Through controlled hyperventilation one stimulates the peripheral nerves of the body *paresthesia*
Through concentrated effort of the mind upon the heart, this stimulation brought about by breathing is made to *enter* and stimulate the vagus.
*the spirit follows the mind and enters the heart*
For mind: This creates a mental loop which cultivates conscious samadhi*
*for body: this causes natural celibacy as one looses the feeling for sex. This is often referred to as an upward course of sexuality. *the body follows the heart,which ascends to the mind*
In this way, the condition of tantra becomes manifest *only when you have no desire for sex are you ready*.
When the condition is strong, sexuality activity being had, turns the body solid red, increases physical vitality and all associated functions including the self aware attention we call us.
This will cause a rising which goes to the ears an causes much inner ear itching.
When united we call it kundalini *spark gap*.
Thus the mind becomes continually conscious.
The body becomes young through constant renewal.

Tid bit.
Duality vanishes in deeper states of trance. This loss of duality is due to a change in perception.
(When you look at a word, your mind automatically reads it. Look at a word and try not to read it ;), this state is behind automatic recognition, thus you perceive, yet there is no mental process past that). Thus duality vanishes in mind. The heart or feeling equivalent is equally important, an comes if the body is transformed.
Thus you create the knowing and unknowing worlds.
Knowing and not knowing.
You realize you are the door.
You open and close the door.
Yet there Is no more darkness.
--------
Thank you for reading.
This post has no been edited for grammar nor spelling.
This post is a personal opinion upon the mystery of life.

Andro
06-14-2015, 11:14 AM
Avaar186, I enjoyed your post very much.

I would very much appreciate it if you would be so kind an maybe start a new thread on the connections you've touched upon here, between the vagus nerve, the necessary trance state, the Kundalini Spark Gap, uniting the conscious with the subconscious, the known with the unknown, the resulting renewal due to the attention focused on emotions/solar plexus, possible elaborations on some techniques, recommended reading materials, etc...

Do you consider yourself as having (at least partially/temporarily) reached the states(s) that you describe?
_______________________

Another point for this thread:

There is a big difference between the Unknown and the Unknowable.

People often confuse the two, because the latter is difficult to conceptualize and our minds and brains often automatically interpret/translate Unknowable as Unknown, but this is not the case.

The Unknown is eventually Knowable (see Avaar's post), while the Unknowable isn't. Duh.

There is no 'memory' in the Unknowable, and even if there is some sort of (hypothetical) experience, it is instantly resolved/forgotten.

Pain/pleasure and other addictive 'pendulum swings' in the knowable realm (both known and unknown) are dependent on time and memory.

Therefore, while accessing the unknown (by doing away with the loss of awareness in relative altered states) can be an interesting precursor to a 'gateway', this is still not 'Tao' or 'Liberation' from my personal perspective. It's a Yogic path of Work & Will, a 'warrior's path' of sorts, but it is not (IMO) the 'Supreme Realization' or 'The Great Perfection' that leads to the EXIT into the truly UN-Knowable, with no time, no space and no memory.

So, if concepts like time/memory, conscious/unconscious are obsolete, finite & infinite are obsolete terms/concepts as well.

-------------------------------------------------------

Awani
06-14-2015, 07:10 PM
There is a big difference between the Unknown and the Unknowable.

When I write about the unknown I mean the unknowable. For me it is the same things, but I guess it is two different concepts.

The unknown that can be known by learning/finding out is not unknown... it is just the known in the process of becoming known.

Maybe create a dictionary thread? LOL.

:cool:

Avatar
06-14-2015, 08:04 PM
No time.
No space.
No memory.
That Is samadhi, the tao, nirvana.
They are like death.
Deep sleep is similar.
The previous post by Avaar is simply a proposed methodical way to keep the self coalesced during transition.

Albeit!
I may not be conceptualizing your references clearly.

Andro
06-14-2015, 08:44 PM
No time.
No space.
No memory.
That Is samadhi, the tao, nirvana.
They are like death.
Deep sleep is similar.
The previous post by Avaar is simply a proposed methodical way to keep the self coalesced during transition.

Albeit!
I may not be conceptualizing your references clearly.

After this post, I think you are conceptualizing them quite clearly :)

I agree with the transition phase, like you described it, not as the ultimate point of rest.

I think we are in agreement.
_______________________________

To be continued on this spin-off thread: Samadhi. Kundalini. The Red Body. (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4442-Samadhi.-Kundalini.-The-Red-Body.)


----------------------------------------------------------------