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View Full Version : Ormus and Monatomics (Ormes): A Clarification



Bennu
04-15-2015, 04:13 AM
This is a Readers Digest condensation of my understanding of this topic. I am happy to answer any questions I might. Please realize that I do not have the formula, but am seeking it.

What is Ormes (orbitally rearranged monatomic elements)?

First, per DH, the term "ormes" was coined by him and his attorney on a flight over eastern Canada, 30-35 years ago. Coincidentally, the source of some of his original ore (a fine grained, red, felsic, igneous rock, perhaps a rhyolite as described by a local PhD geologist) is located off of Orme RD, just west of I-17 in Yavapai County, AZ. In conversations I had with an qualified scientist, the substance is not necessarily "orbitally rearranged", but is in fact an allotrope of gold, where conventional modern chemistry does not acknowledge gold having allotropes. These unknown allotropes also exist for Ru, Rh, Pd, Os, Ir and Pt, plus a few other elements.
There is a danger following the pathway to true ormes. It is frought with disinformation, internet myth and numerous "white powder gold" promoters who promise the world and deliver nothing. As a side bar, today spot gold closed about US $1191 a troy ounce. Google "white powder gold for sale" and explain why these vendors are selling an ounce for US $60 to $70, including costs? (Hint: because there is no gold of any kind in it, except normal background traces.)
My original investigation was to determine if this ormes substance was real, because nothing but unverifiable hearsay exists on it. (Have you ever held real allotropic Au or PGE's? You probably haven't. If you have, PLEASE PM me.) I was greatly relieved when a trustworthy expert said yes, they are real.

So then, what is Ormus? First, it is not an allotrope of Au or PGE's. In my opinion, ormus is a popularized substance, backed by no science. I know I am speaking heresy to some in the forum, but I have to present what fact finding has indicated. As most people know it, ormus is primarily magnesium (or calcium) hydroxide. Tossing lye into a solution of DSS or ocean water with the expectation of precipitating a unknown, hard to purify allotrope is akin to mining the moon for green cheese. It is pretty much the same for trap water, which also catches bacteria, viruses and other pathogens.
Now, I did not say that ormus does not have a positive effect on some people. For these, I speculate that curative results may be from accompanying trace elements correcting a dietary deficiency.

The topic of "ormes" can fill volumes. Making the real stuff is a closely kept process. This led to the development of an ormus culture promoting an entirely different substance for which there was commercial demand and profit potential.

Please ask away and challenge anything you feel is inaccurate. I can keep going later, with who knows how to make it. What the effects of ingesting are. More on myth and rumor becoming accepted fact. This is to restart the conversations.

Dendritic Xylem
04-15-2015, 06:01 AM
Excellent.
I never heard the allotrope theory. Very interesting. I wonder if it relates to Carey Lea's silver.
I agree that there is much misinformation in the commonly available ormes info.
If you've never reduced elemental gold from your sea salt precipitate, then it probably shouldn't be called monatomic gold.

But like you said, it's turned into a business.

Feel like sharing the Raleigh Gilchrist papers?

Andro
04-15-2015, 06:23 AM
I know I am speaking heresy to some in the forum, but I have to present what fact finding has indicated.

You've come to the right place to question/challenge things. This is not an ormus church (or any church, for that matter), unlike a few other places on the web :)


As most people know it, ormus is primarily magnesium (or calcium) hydroxide.

So what would be Ormus as most people DON'T know it? What is there after we take away all the known chemical compounds you mentioned?


conventional modern chemistry does not acknowledge gold having allotropes

Perhaps the same/similar way that it is unaware of the 3 kinds of Gold mentioned in Alchemical literature: 'Metallic', 'Elemental' and 'Astral'. It's the latter two, that are of real interest in alchemical work. None of them resemble metallic gold in any way. Maybe there is a potential connection to 'real' Ormus here as well, as elemental/alchemical gold isn't anything like the metallic, neither in its 'mine' nor in its perceived price/value (the latter because it is not known by most).

is akin to mining the moon for green cheese.

Interesting you would choose to put it this way. It's what we basically do in Alchemy, allegorically speaking :)


Making the real stuff is a closely kept process. This led to the development of an ormus culture promoting an entirely different substance for which there was commercial demand and profit potential.

I very much agree. I've heard that some of what used to be ormus discussion groups have turned into promotional product-placing platforms.
_____________________________________

I'm glad you started this discussion. Let's dig deeper into it. I suspect that the closer we get to the 'real stuff', the more we will see the alchemical connections/parallels.

I think that in both areas, 'real' ormus and/or 'real' alchemy, the aim is a Carrier Matter for the quintessence of Universal Mind/Thought/Time itself, the One Thing.


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True Initiate
04-15-2015, 09:00 AM
Another thing that needs to be pointed out is that allotropic Gold is only a first step towards philosophers stone. The wonderfull effects that are ascribed to Ormes are all effect associated with philosophers stone.
Here on Alchemy Forums we know the difference very well.

theFool
04-15-2015, 11:56 AM
I read in a website that:

Hudson's chemists made analyses of a number of plant tissues and found ORMUS to be highest in plants, especially aloe vera, which are grown in volcanic soils. They also analyzed calf and pig brain tissue and obtained a remarkable five per cent of the dry-matter content. Did Hudson made those analyses or is this a myth perpetrated by those who want to commercialize his patent.

Some other questions I have is:
- how to transform G-ormes to S-ormes ?
- how to detect the presence of G-ormes. In the patent it is refered that after they are annealed, they:

will not react with cyanide, will not be dissolved by aqua regia, and will not wet or amalgamate with mercury. It also does not sinter at 800C under reducing conditions, and remains an amorphous powder at 1200C I think that maybe some details are left out on the description of how to anneal them.

Bennu
04-15-2015, 11:35 PM
.
Feel like sharing the Raleigh Gilchrist papers?

Paste this NIST link into your browser. You'll have hours of reading. :o

"http://nistdigitalarchives.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/searchterm/Gilchrist"

You'll need to remove the quotation marks when pasting into the url bar. This was the only I could post it without the forum software truncating it. Using Google browser through Mozilla gave me lots of articles.

Bennu
04-16-2015, 12:13 AM
Hi, the fool.
I concur that plants grown in certain volcanic soils are rich in ormes (not ormus). The highest ormes content I have read about was in volcanic soil. These assay numbers were verified to me in person. They are NOT myth.
As an FYI, other volcanic formations around the world have reportedly tested to bear high concentrations of ormes, not just Arizona, USA examples. Ormes are apparently common in nature, just nigh impossible to identify.
The Patent, Example 1 is written to be a very slow process if followed. I also think that annealing is key to the "charging" of Au ormes to more "psychologically active" Au s-ormes (such as reported in "U" 's 1996 interview with binga), but have no real temperature/process data on that, nor that s-ormes is even a proper description for this atomic state. I understand that a German alchemist named Chaldean was formulating Ascension Alchemy's ormes at their Colorado, USA lab. He apparently returned home last autumn (2014) for family reasons and further manufacture discontinued. Their website (deep inside it) hinted at different human responses based on the annealing being done by different inert gases. Lots to be discovered on the annealing. Perhaps one of our European forum members knows Chaldean and can inquire for us?
One caution I am heeding is that Au ormes are subject to loss by gassing off at temperatures of 450 oC or higher. Heat it over that temperature without a containment/recovery environment and it is lost.

Bennu
04-16-2015, 12:15 AM
True Initiate,
I agree. My question in response is, "How is the difference known?"

Bennu
04-16-2015, 12:41 AM
So what would be Ormus as most people DON'T know it? What is there after we take away all the known chemical compounds you mentioned?
------------------------------------------------------

I would posit that of one did all the extraction chemistry available there would be very little ormes remaining, small parts per million at best. I personally have no confidence that anything labeled ormus (not knocking the folks who swear by it) has any appreciable amounts of monatomics. I think the best source is volcanic deposits or processing metallic Au (or PGE's) into monatomic Au.

You also mentioned, "Interesting you would choose to put it this way. It's what we basically do in Alchemy, allegorically speaking."

No offense meant. While open to all avenues of exploration, some appear to be more promising than others. More research money is spent on hypotheses that do not work than on eureka discoveries.

Wigwamman
04-16-2015, 01:08 AM
hi! all..

well i must say that i agree on this totaly, :)

i thought of it my self that manna as i call it or X-state gold (exotic) was a alotrop of somekind, so its kind of cool that DH thinks it is this as well, as i found orme to be a very vage discribtion of the product, as it does not seems like mono atomic, as these would be way to small for the so called white powder gold, "not talking about the sea water precipitate of the ormus ppl"
i suspect it to be tetrahydral or star tetrahydral in crystal shape,
i think the P stone might be a advance on that, as i suspect it maght form a stable equalibrium vector, folding out to a 64 tetrahydral grid, and this is basicly the male form of a 3D flower of life pattern,
as this pattern is know to be the basic structure of the "vacuum" this would allow enormes amounts of energy to come out of the structre, as it would frectal the same shape as vacuum allowing channaling of the energy i suspect that the material that is used like in this case gold gives a specific energy imprint when it channels the vacuum energy, and so allowing projection of the pure energy of gold onto what ever ..

so i suspect that the white stuff is a bulding blocks of a super molecule, as i suspect that a true stone is one single super molacule, i have seen studys that they used gold to form small not very stable super molacules, as the 64 tetrahydral gridd is a stable equalibrian it allows for infinate fractalingto infinite small to infinete large, and so allowing it to grow as large as a stone.

this is just theory of cource but it would explain some of the effects,

i will start experementing on calcenation experiments to see what the effects are on my material and will post in my topic salt work (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4351-Salt-Work.../page2)
as it seems that calcination does some trange things if we my beleve DH
ps
im working on 400gr of limestone at the moment, and im going to see how match of the stuff i can get out of it with my method, this would give awesere how many procentage is in it, .. but i can say that i will not be put out in ppm but in gr per kg. and this is when all other stuff in there is taken away the entire solution will be emty before the manne precipitates ;)

kind regards

Bennu
04-16-2015, 04:22 AM
Hi, Wigwamman.



i thought of it my self that manna as i call it or X-state gold (exotic) was a alotrop of somekind, so its kind of cool that DH thinks it is this as well,


I did not receive the concept of allotrope from DH. This came from an experienced scientist. I have never seen or heard DH use allotrope.




im working on 400gr of limestone at the moment, and im going to see how match of the stuff i can get out of it with my method, this would give awesere how many procentage is in it, .. but i can say that i will not be put out in ppm but in gr per kg. and this is when all other stuff in there is taken away the entire solution will be emty before the manne precipitates ;)


I am curious why you have chosen limestone to work with. My investigations indicate that igneous formations, such as DH's "ore" likely have a high concentration of ormes. Best of luck with this. I hope you do pull out grams per kilogram. Let me know. I'd like to adapt the process to igneous sources.

theFool
04-16-2015, 06:37 AM
Thank you Bennu for your detailed response. I agree with most with what you say.

I would like to differentiate my opinion about the ormes being in ppm concentrations in non volcanic soils. I base this possibility to the folowing words of Hudson, spoken at a lecture that can be found on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IgYp4Noz90

At 1:25:40 Hudson says:

This material is in the food you eat, the water you drink, the air you breath, it is everywhere and afterwards, he says: "you need to have it in your body for good, healthy, normal life"

Maybe those elements can be found in volcanic soils more easily because they are more easily assayed in those soils. As Bennu says, probably it would be much more difficult to identify them in other soils or plants because they are not so close to the metallic state as they are in volcanic soils. Maybe the sulfur in the volcanos "reduces" ormes closer to the metal state, thus they can be seen easier in thise soils. (just a hypothesis)

In this lecture Hudson speaks also about the "sodium burn" process and the biological importance of ormes, very informative if you have the time to watch it all.

Wigwamman
04-16-2015, 01:39 PM
Hi, Wigwamman.



I did not receive the concept of allotrope from DH. This came from an experienced scientist. I have never seen or heard DH use allotrope.

o then i seem to have misread your post hehe..



I am curious why you have chosen limestone to work with. My investigations indicate that igneous formations, such as DH's "ore" likely have a high concentration of ormes. Best of luck with this. I hope you do pull out grams per kilogram. Let me know. I'd like to adapt the process to igneous sources.

well there are a few reasons, and this hes more to do with history than whith what DH is telling us, as i personaly think, if we look to match at DH alone we will and up as allot of ormus ppl, hehe so i thought i expaned the information range by studding history, if we do that we can see that this hidden manna was known about in angent egypt as egypt hes loads of limestone, and as limestone is actualy dead sealife most of the time,there must be manna in there, as it is in all life , if we look even more back in hystory, we have the lost book of enki, in this book it discribes a story, that anki that was banned from his plannet discoverd on earth that there was gold loads of gold, and in was in the sea water ! to toutch a bit on water, from water all things come, all matter came from water, water is a matrix to build in"female", with the right energy's"male" all things can be menifested from water, as the sun is on water all the time giving his solar rays, "male" energy on the water "female" , so i believe the suns rays create it in the water. as the sun stands for gold and the moon for silver, this might be the reason that there is more gold then silver in water or limestone, as there is loads more sunshine in hours then full moon reflection,

if we look at the miniral contant of seawater the salt concentrations in ratio is about the same as our blood, and as the earth lives her self, the water might be seen as her blood, and again as all life has it, and as blood "water" transfers the minerals thrue the body so does the earth use the sea's to do just that.

as the limestone that came from the dead sea life lived in the sea that was full of the stuff, so i believe that we will find allot more in sea water and limestone, then that what we would find in volcanic soils, i i do argree on the fools statement that it might be found better in the volcanic rockes becouse of the sulfur in the soil, as it might be more to the matelic state "slight rearagment of the structure" so that it is easier picked up in the analizeing methods we use today, "whitch in my eyes need allot of work"


so this is way i used limestone, i also use sea salt, and it seems to work as well
, i have some salt here that comes from a salt depoit under my country that is about 200mil yours old so i would like to try this as well,

for if u want to addept this process to volcanic rock i would prob go for a short lye burn on the materials, then add water, filter solids out drop to ph 5, then precipitate at 8.5 other stuff that u dont want,"leeping solution cool" and then apply heat to get the manna, not sure if this will work but that could be tested, im not that of the dry ways in that sens, as i do not have the material nore the place to do it , so if someone can try that hes these things, than that would be awesome :)

kind regards

theFool
04-16-2015, 02:01 PM
And don't forget Paracelsus' famous words about lime:

many a man kicks away with his foot a stone
that would be more valuable to him than his best cow, if he only knew what great mysteries were put
into it by God by means of the spirit of Nature.

Breemar
07-28-2015, 11:25 PM
I may write a special article about the following, but will mention it here in context:

Only recently science became aware that gold nuggets are actually growing in rivers.

Nuggets have been found in rivers with traces of river plants enclosed. Furthermore, objects made of iron and other metals have repeatedly found being naturally goldplated after lieing in a river for some time. Although the exact conditions are not clear, under which such molecular accumulation takes place, there is little doubt about the origin of the accumulating gold. The sea and many rivers contain gold in solution.

When hot fluids are pushed towards the surface, they crystallize during cooling, resulting in all kinds of sulfides, gems and metals. Very often gold is finely distributed within the crystal lattice of pyrites. These pyrites are dissolved by natural acids, even by rain in relatively short time. Tiny particles of gold, Au2, maybe even Au1, will break free one by one, and connect to a hydro molecule of some sort.

Under certain, yet rather nebulous conditions they will then stick on a gold nugget in the river, seperate from the solution and cause the nugget to grow.

Based on these new insights, gold prospectors now begin to name former secondary deposites primary deposites as well.

However, the methods of "Ormus" production may very well cause similar effects and gather gold that was in solution, prior to the crystallisation or pertification of the base material, eg. DSS or limestone.



Related content:


http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1032478.htm

http://www.nature.com/news/gold-digging-bacterium-makes-precious-particles-1.12352

http://prophetau.com/category/bacterial-gold/

http://nevada-outback-gems.com/placer_gold/Coarse_gold_P1.htm
(rather conventional gold background info)



.

Bennu
09-23-2015, 04:36 AM
Hi, Breemar.
I have been off the forum for a while, as life intervenes. To further add credulence to your 7-28-15 post, I recommend you click on this link to the ormes forum on yahoo! https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Ormes/files
then look up the file posted by madmanmarkum "The precious metals we prefer to ignore.pdf" . "madman" is one of the original people involved with the ormes movement twenty years ago. His posting of this scientific article will contribute additional information supporting your observations.
Hope this is of interest. Best regards, Bennu.