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Awani
06-03-2015, 02:17 AM
I wrote this in my Ayahuasca Report (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1298-Ayahuasca-Report&p=35635#post35635) last year:


Forgiveness is so powerful. Whatever someone does to me I will forgive them. This truth that I have beheld changes everything for me. Without writing a biographical epic let me just say that, for me, this changes everything. Makes me very powerful, unstoppable, peaceful, stress free and unified... - source (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1298-Ayahuasca-Report&p=35635#post35635)

After some discussions at this years Alchemy Congress in Amsterdam (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4160-Alchemy-Congress-2015&p=38459#post38459) I understood that this important concept can easily be misunderstood due to the failure of words. Sometimes words are confusing.

When I speak of forgiveness I am really talking about letting go.

Extreme example:

Someone rapes your wife. Instead of hating the rapist, seeking revenge etc... you let go of any negative emotions towards that person. You don't forget what he did, and you make sure he does not do it again (call the police, inform the rapists parents, warn the neighbors whatever).

This is "forgiving", or letting go... because any other state of mind is not helpful. If hate/revenge is kept within then the rape continues.

This also works in more normal situations. For example:

A person you know talks shit about you to your friends and you find out. Again, just let that person go. Say to him: "thank you for your friendship, but I don't want to be friends anymore... I wish you all the best, good bye".

This is what I mean. Because doing anything else is, in my opinion, not very productive. I have tested these methods in the past 6 months and I think they have been excellent. It really works. Jesus was right!!!

Hallelujah!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKxr2PJ06Y4

:cool:

Xerilon
04-10-2016, 11:54 AM
I know it's late for a reply, but I think this is more complex, and elaborating a bit further may help us all get a more useful perspective on this.
So I feel the need to add information on the thread, and hope it's okay.
If there is one thing Ayahuasca has taught me, it is that it is all just a game, but we have roles to play.

First, I think revenge has a useful role in nature. It is an act of protection and prevention of further crimes. Revenge first, Let go after.

Extreme example:
I call the police about the rapist. The justice system doesn't give a damn. No use. OR if they do care, it is only me pushing the work of revenge over on somebody else, also known as "Amtssprache". As if the police are some form of non human authority of godly power anyways.
I talk to the parents who are the ones who created him in the first place, and that doesn't help either. Maybe they actually will protect him.
I warn the neighbors. I spread fear.

Revenge solution: Cut off his arms (literally the best punishment for rape), forgive him and let everything go. Take care of the victim.

Friend Example:
That was good, in my opinion, because friendship is mutual. If you lose one friend, that ex-friend has also lost a friend :)

If nobody would take revenge on the bad guys through history and only forgive them, they would still carry on their evil deeds. Revenge is about stopping it all, for good. Forgive later.
I am not saying "eye for an eye" so the whole world goes blind, but I believe since most of us humans contain the "god" element, we wish to do good (mostly) and protect each other. And that is where the sense of revenge comes in. But just as there is good Ego and bad Ego, so it is with revenge. It must not be misused.

To me revenge is just the water putting out the fire to regain equilibrium :)

To conclude my thoughts, I would suggest people who feel the need for revenge, to wait until the emotions settle down in order to separate hate from revenge. They do not mean the same. As was said in Karate Kid (or whatever) we do not fight very well when we are emotional. That's when we do misjudgements.


EDIT: It must be said also, that the act of warning others against an evildoer is ALSO an indirect act of "revenge", as people in the community would likely reject or freeze out the evildoer, which is also a form of punishment or bad deed.

Awani
04-10-2016, 01:48 PM
I disagree. IMO revenge is a loosing game. Life is bigger than 'this' life.

Also 'violent' examples of philosophical statements never works well.

I am not against self-defense. But revenge is 'bad' in all circumstances no matter what. Even if they rape your new born baby in front of you. They will suffer eventually. IMO. And much worse than any revenge you could muster.

So no matter how it is performed revenge is corrupt energy. People can do as they please, but my view on the matter is as I have written.

:cool:

Andro
04-10-2016, 07:04 PM
Has anyone here read 'The Count of Monte Christo'?

If yes, would anyone here have acted differently if you were in his shoes?


But revenge is 'bad' in all circumstances no matter what.

Isn't this also a matter of 'how' more than 'what'? Isn't stuff neither 'good' nor 'bad' "but thinking makes it so"? (Hamlet, I think...)

There's the saying "He who seeks revenge should dig two graves". Is this supposed to be a kind of warning? Or are those comforting words?

And can't revenge also be seen as an act of love, from the perspective of the "life that is bigger than this life"?

___________________________________________

Also, 'Letting Go' of someone (who did you 'wrong') can happen on a plain surface as well as from the 20th floor...


- Charlie the Finger:)

Awani
04-10-2016, 07:24 PM
Yes... dig two graves. Love/compassion/kindness etc. is more powerful than hate and revenge.

I don't think it is an act of love... revenge is like taking a shit in your own food.

Have not read Monte Christo... just seen the film/s.


“For all evils there are two remedies - time and silence.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

I used to believe in revenge, but I have utterly changed my opinion on this matter and now I strongly advice against it. ;) And I have put it to the test... and it doesn't work.

Perhaps it seems to work on a small time scale, but ultimately revenge = EPIC FAIL!!! :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MILug2bB5Uk


If there is one thing Ayahuasca has taught me, it is that it is all just a game...

Exactly.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/il_570xN.342211381_zpsf4qd6w3n.jpg

:cool:

JinRaTensei
04-10-2016, 09:35 PM
Just my two cents.to let something or someone go literally means that something goes away and is gone from yourself.forgiving can have more detrimental effects than revenge if this forgiveness is something you truely believe but not truely want.Having loved someone/something in this world/life to a degree of never wanting to let go or never being able to forgive harm to that someone/something actually means the highest embodiment of love in the physical reality.

Being able to let everything go,even the most gruesome crime to the most beloved person means in reality that you never have let it go.It is just that your beliefs,experiences and conciousness are no longer bound to this realm alone and thereby nothing in this realm needs to be held.Instead like cosmic law demands the more you let something go the more you hold on to the belief/value which causes you to let go.the event/person/action is not gone but transmuted.

But what if to let go would also mean to let go of any future karma,justice,equilibrium,reaction and forgiving would be the same as forgetting on a cosmic scale,the only beings knowing and being harmed by the event being yourself and your loved one not even the culprit.Would that be love?Would that be a higher concept/moral to strife towards?if not what moral do you strife towards by letting go?have you ever let anything go as long as you have morals,values and desire?and if you have no morals,values or desire than how could you ever hold something in the first place which could be let gone?

Awani
04-10-2016, 10:55 PM
Not sure I understand what you mean. Can you rephrase your conclusion?

For me letting go is just that... letting go... There is nothing complicated about it. Just an exhale.

:cool:

Andro
04-11-2016, 07:26 AM
I'm going to tell a little story...

I was doing quite well financially in my previous line of work (music recording and production), but around 2012-2013 I had a period when there was no work for me in this field in my area.

There was this guy whom I had previously helped a lot, gave him a place to stay and when he was jobless and homeless and helped him in other ways as well. This guy was in a similar line of work, only with stage productions (as opposed to studio productions, such as I was doing). He eventually got back on his feet and started to make new connections, got a place of his own, etc...

When I myself had a rough patch (for a few months), I asked him if he could ask around among his connections in this 'industry' to see if there could be a gig for me. I didn't ask him for money or anything like that. The moment I asked him, he changed the subject, started to talk about his problems and then all of a sudden he 'had to go'. I felt very betrayed. This was the same person for whom I had provided food and shelter for almost half a year in the past, when he was the one having a rough patch.

I decided to 'let go', but with a twist. I said (in my mind) that I am passing the duty of balancing/justice to the universe and that I am removing myself from being personally involved with this equation.

No more than one day passed and I hear that this guy had been in a severe car accident which caused him a fractured jaw and the loss of most his teeth. He was in the hospital and would be needing 2-3 years for jaw and mouth reconstruction/rehabilitation.

Since I don't really believe in coincidences, my thoughts (when I heard this) were that the 'Universe' can be much more 'cruel' in dispensing 'justice' than anything I could have conjured myself. Not in my worst 'vindictive' nightmares would I have ever thought of such a 'punishment' for this kind of perceived betrayal.

I've been practicing this ever since. Not merely "letting go", but "passing it on" to the "greater mind", which is able to see the "greater picture" so much better than I can.

I know that it can just as well backfire, if I'm the one who has "disturbed the balance" - but one way or another, balance needs to be restored.

I don't know if this event had anything to do with me "passing it on" while letting it go - the same could have theoretically happened if I had simply let it go without the "twist".

I have nothing to compare it to, so I just don't know.

JinRaTensei
04-11-2016, 07:52 AM
Not sure I understand what you mean. Can you rephrase your conclusion?

For me letting go is just that... letting go... There is nothing complicated about it. Just an exhale.

basically I mean we as humans never let anything go.if you just exhale and let go that is because your mind/conciousness/desires are no longer bound to the material plain.For everything you let go you also take something.Letting go of people/events means getting/strenghtening the belief/moral/value which causes you to let go.things/events/people donīt go they just transmute.the obstacle of the past becomes the ladder of the future.

whatI am trying to say is that you/we all donīt let anything go.we carry our fights from kindergarten with us also for example it is just that in the moment you have let it go in the past something else replaced it equally.For instance in kindergarten a bully pushes you and you are angry,short time after you have forgiven the bully and you have no anger anymore like kids do.But the anger is not gone it is just changed,transmuted.the energy which expresses as anger became the energy which expresses as forgiveness.the thoughts and emotions which led to forgiveness become wisdom and experience.the decisions which led to the anger become your guidelines for avoiding future anger etc...

basically I mean humans/beings canīt let anything go,ever.All the things/beings we can let go we never had/knew inn the first place.Because every experience becomes a part of us and canīt be let go just changed and refined,imo.^^

Awani
04-11-2016, 09:54 AM
Yes in a way it could be viewed like that. Especially when we talk about things from the past that we have let go. But things that will happen tomorrow I can let go the monent it happens. It won't have time to form a parasitical relationship.

But I do think that the only thing I receive when I let go is the "light", so IMO it is possible to let go fully.

Andro: I don't even think you have to ask/pass on the duty... that will happen regardless (so I agree with your final thought). So that guy was doomed the moment he turned his back. :) That is why revenge-thinking is futile and why there is a need to dig two graves, because the revenge-seeker is no better.

Look at Game of Thrones. All that suffering and death and it all comes down to revenge. Revenge for the revenge for the revenge. War/conflict in our physical realm have the same problems.

:cool:

Xerilon
04-11-2016, 05:23 PM
I think revenge is just a tool, like a hammer: You can fix or you can hurt, depending on the emotion behind the use. I have many success stories of this in my life with myself and people related to me, and I am sure others have too.

Also I think that the "sweet revenge" is very well expressed in the move "The Crow", which shows what revenge can do to prevent and protect, while carried out by the force of love, AND letting go and returning to earth at the end, case closed. This is why people loved that film so much. It touches something in us that we all want the power to do. Like most "hero" movies I guess.

Awani
04-11-2016, 06:37 PM
I think revenge is just a tool, like a hammer: You can fix or you can hurt, depending on the emotion behind the use.

Perhaps this has been the case in your experience, but for my part revenge is not worth it. If I was a Christian it would be the equivalent of allowing Satan to enter your house. ;)

:cool:

Xerilon
04-11-2016, 08:23 PM
Thank you for aknowledging that we have different experiences :) It's just that. And I am glad that it works for you.
I have been the bad guy and good guy, been revenged on and learned from it, and posed quick revenge with good outcome. For me at least, some people just need a metaphoric smack in the face to wake up, myself included, if I have acted wrong ;)

For me the world is a duality where we need both in balance, and even though I am not a violent person, and try my best to talk first and 99% of the time succeed in that, I am not a "love and light" guy either.
Simply not caring about a little "payback" makes me think of other things I could just as well ignore. If I see a rapist attacking a defenseless woman I have a few choices: Think to myself that it is "his" journey and her karma, and just pass by, OR I can run forward and do my best to stop him and show him the possible consequences and save the woman.

If I was ever witness to such a situation I would never just let go. Or to put it differently, I would let go of my "humanity" for a few moments gladly :)

Awani
04-12-2016, 02:30 PM
If the world is duality for you, you will have a duality world. That is how magic works. ;)

As I see it.

:cool:

Xerilon
04-12-2016, 07:45 PM
Hmm, the world looks dual to my eyes, yes. Just about everything we see has gender and duality in some form or another. But then again, the duality seem to switch places or times to rule, like night and day do. And I believe the purpose for that is to change our perspectives to keep our eyes fresh to appreciate what we have and work for what we have not.

I don't know. I tend to believe that everything, good or bad, real or fake, has a purpose, and that there is a time to give and a time to receive, willingly or not. Things may be very different on other planes, but not here on surface Earth :) Just my opinion yet I am open for change,, no harm meant ;)

Awani
04-12-2016, 09:02 PM
No harm done at all. But you just verified what I said. You see what you think. ;)

Not saying you are wrong, just saying that is how it is. IMO.

:cool:

zoas23
04-13-2016, 12:26 AM
Posting a song as a reply is often incredibly stupid... but in this situation, I don't think I can say it better than this song.
_________________________________

Never Give Up by Nocturnal Emissions


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdwNgm2hIF8

breathe deeply and relax completely....

you’re just letting go,....

unwinding, completely relaxing now....

allowing the quietness of spirit to begin....

to come in....

and it feels good....

and it feels good....

and it feels good....

to unwind....

and let go....

so relaxed and so at ease....

you’re relaxed and at ease and at peace....

with yourself....

the world and everyone in it....

make this real with the unlimited....

power of the mind ....

and relax completely....

you’re just letting go, unwinding,....

completely relaxing now....

allowing the quietness of spirit to begin to come....

in....

and it feels good....

and it feels good....

and it feels good....

to unwind and let....

go....

so relaxed and so at ease....

you’re relaxed and at ease and at peace with....

yourself....

the world and everyone in it....

make this real with the unlimited power....

of the mind ....

never give up....

never give up....

make this real with the unlimited....

power of the mind ....

never give up....

never give up....

do try as hard as you....

can....

never uh wear anything with a permanent press label in it....

don’t ever....

drink or eat anything instant....

don’t ever drink or eat anything instant....

don’t....

ever read a tabloid newspaper....

you’ve got to try as hard as you can ....

you’ve....

got to try as hard as you can ....

thou shall have no other god before....

thyself....

thou shall not kill whales or baby seals....

never give up....

so relaxed....

and so at ease....

make this real with the unlimited power of the mind ....

never....

give up....

never uh wear anything with a permanent press label in it....

don’t ever....

drink or eat anything instant....

don’t ever drink or eat anything instant....

don’t....

ever read a tabloid newspaper....

you’ve got to try as hard as you can ....

you’ve....

got to try as hard as you can ....

thou shall have no other god before....

thyself....