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EMDiderot
11-29-2015, 03:54 PM
I just got done reading the Ayahuasca and Iboga reports and found them fascinating. I used to be very into the entheogenic trip and psychadelic meditation, and recently thought about revisiting some of those plateaus and other planes. Unfortunately, I a) lack the means to travel to South America or Africa to be initiated, and b) I am not too keen on purchasing LSD and mushrooms as I was in college.

I came across a post on erowid (https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=45074) detailing a preparation of mandragora with atropa belladonna and datura (although, as the editor noted, the belladonna was not actually mentioned in the report). I have long been interested in the historicity of the Witches' Flying Ointment and decided this past summer to begin cultivation of mandragora officianalis and atropa belladonna along with digitalis. Of the three, only the mandragora actually successfully germinated (and surprised me by resprouting after going dormant once I brought it inside! Hopefully I can maintain a second season of growth through the winter and obtain fruit at the end of next summer!). I find this odd, as the mandragora is supposed to be the finnickiest of all of them. But the digitalis, which is hardy here, never germinated, and the one belladonna germination I got died within a couple days of poking up out of the peat starter. I am going to attempt to grow the belladonna and digitalis again this year, but wanted to know if anyone had any experience with preparations such as this?

I will have to find it again (google has been no luck, but I did save it on one of my external harddrives....), but I came across several other reports of people preparing the flying ointment and experiencing similar sensations of flight and hallucinations of being on a green field. The experience linked to above is the only one that detailed how long the come-down is, which I was reminded of reading the Iboga report and its multi-day come-down.

For my own purposes, I'm hesitant to utilize only the mandragora, as I think the unusually high dosages used in the flying ointments has a lot to do with the fact that atropine and aconite, both present in the combination of plants mentioned, are natural antidotes to each other. I know mechanistically that any plant-induced hallucinations are due to toxic levels of the active chemicals, but in the experiences listing only atropa belladonna or mandragora, the dosages are much lower with much weaker effects, so I am positing that perhaps the antidote effect of the two chemicals helps prevent actual overdose when prepared together. Unfortunately, if I cannot get the other plants to grow, I will undoubtedly have to prepare an ointment utilizing only the mandragora and report on that. I can also just buy digitalis from the garden center, but I prefer to cultivate it myself for these purposes.

Anyone else have experiences or are intrigued? :cool:

Awani
11-30-2015, 12:02 AM
...and datura...

Just a brief word of warning. I would advice you to be very careful using datura. It can be (according to reports I've heard) very disturbing and confusing (and in some cases harmful). It is not set in stone but shamans that add datura to their ayahuasca brew are usually "bad" ones trying to take control of you. So basically make sure you know what you are doing and don't do it alone.


I just got done reading the Ayahuasca and Iboga reports and found them fascinating.

I am happy you enjoyed them, and let me tell you that those reports are boring compared to the "reality" of the ordeal. ;)


a) lack the means to travel to South America or Africa to be initiated, and b) I am not too keen on purchasing LSD and mushrooms as I was in college.

As for ayahuasca a cheap solution if you live in the USA might be: http://www.aya.guide

You can find ayahuasca ceremonies all over the USA there, at the moment mainly in Arizona. And it is considerably cheaper than going to the Amazon.

LSD is a lesser path... I prefer that which is 100 % natural... but mushrooms don't cost anything if you know where to pick them. ;) You can also order spores online and grow them yourself. In most countries it is not illegal to import the spores.

:cool:

Awani
11-30-2015, 02:01 PM
... datura is known for causing delirious states and poisonings in uninformed users.

In my opinion ayahuasca and mushrooms don't cause delirious states generally. Iboga in a sense but that is why you need good people around you.

Ghislain, which I did Iboga with, had a week long period of coming down and we did the mistake of leaving Gabon too early. He was in the Middle East and still talking to people who wasn't there before finally, after a week, falling a sleep and coming back to normal (somewhat). :) Actually took a year but he can speak more of that if he wants to. But it is common. I talked to more than one person in Gabon who had a 'coming down' of 6 months or more.

Check out this thread: Why do witches ride brooms? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4170-Why-do-witches-ride-brooms)

:cool:

EMDiderot
11-30-2015, 10:33 PM
datura is known for causing delirious states and poisonings in uninformed users.

I actually have no interest in utilizing datura. My research into cultivation of the other plants gave me a lot to consider, and datura just seemed way too risky. Looking into old medical journals and pharmacology research from the late 19th and early 20th Centuries gives lots of information about the amount of aconite, atropine, and other tropanes present in mandragora and belladonna, so I have that to work with, at least. :)


mushrooms don't cause delirious states generally

I can't say I've ever been delirious from mushrooms, but I've definitely found myself out of sorts while on them. Note: Never go move a car when the mushrooms *really* set in.

Also, thanks for the be-broomed witches link. :cool:

Philosophical
12-03-2015, 12:57 AM
Be incredibly careful using any plant which contains tropanes including mandrake and belladonna. I would not recommend it unless you are connected to someone who is trained in their use. Tropane containing plants all have a bad name and I am not trying to further this ignorance. I personally have drunk Toe (Brugmansia spp.) and Chiric Sanango (Brunfelsia spp.) both of which contain tropanes and they are NOT to be messed with. They are seriously medicine but at the same time they are serious medicine not for the faint of heart or untrained. The thing with many tropane containing plants is that their alkaloids are so variable that dosage is difficult. Please make sure you know what you are doing, I mean this with all due respect and utmost care for your well being.

Philosophical

Salazius
12-05-2015, 01:25 PM
You can already seek a donor for a new liver. :) Just kidding, but if taken inwardly, it can be very destructive.

Be also very carefull with the spirits of Mandrakes. They are extremely powerful. I have myself 3 mandrakes growing, and they can start and stop growing at will ... Atropa B is also dangerous of course, but I don't know its spirit yet. Also looking forward making it grow.

I've done some researches on flying Ointment in the past. It is a very interesting topic of course, and must be deal with great care.



Traditional English Flying Ointment from Erica Jong's Witches

3 grams annamthol
30 grams betel
50 grams extract of opium
6 grams cinquefoil
15 grams henbane
15 grams belladonna
15 grams hemlock
250 grams cannabis Indica
5 grams canthreidin
Blend with oil of your choice, baby fat, vaseline, safflower oil, or butter.

Modern American Flying Ointment

1 jar hand cream
1 tsp. vegetable fat
1/2 tsp. belladonna
3 drops liquid detergent
1/2 tsp. wolfbane juice
Mix well with perfume of your choosing

French Flying Ointments : Three Recipes

I. Du persil, de l'eau de l'Aconite, des feuiles de Peuple, et de la suye.

(Parsley, essence of aconite, poplar leaves and soot.)

***

II. De la Berle, de l'Acorum vulgaire, de la Quintafeuille, du sang de chauvesouris, de la Morelle edormante, et de l'huyle.

(Water parsnip, sweet flag, cinquefoil, bat's blood, deadly nightshade, and oil.)

***

III. De graisse d'enfant, de suc d' Ache, d'Aconite, de Quintefeuille, de Morelle, et du suye.

(Baby's fat, juice of the water parsnip, aconite, cinquefoil, deadly nightshade, and soot.)


Modern Wicca Flying Ointment Beeswax Base Recipe


4c. Standard Beeswax Base
1/4c. skullcap
1/2c. jasmine flowers
1/2c. lavender flowers
1/4c. hawthorn berries
1/3c. elderberries
1/4c. elderflowers
1/2c. mistletoe
1/3c. mugwort
1/4c. rue
20 drops of the pure essential oil of myrtle
20 drops of the pure essential oil of hops
10 drops of the pure essential oil of linden (careful! often adulterated!)
10 drops of the pure essential oil of clary sage
10mL of a 5% dilution of narcissus in grapeseed oil
To make a standard beeswax base, in a glass double boiler melt 2 1/3 cup of beeswax gently using as low a heat as possible. Once the beeswax has melted, mix 1 2/3 cup of jojoba oil until it is smooth.

I prefer to use a combination of jojoba and wheat germ oil but as this recipe calls for some grape seed oil, I have omitted my favorite mixture in favor of the standard. Once the mix is smooth (you have just made the base) then add your herbs to this mixture. Once added, keep at as low a temperature as possible, stirring constantly with a wooden spoon. Too much heat destroys the very essence you are trying to extract.Once you have allowed the herbs to steep in the base (about 30 min), strain using a strainer to get the herbs out.

You can try cheesecloth if you're feeling up to the challenge. Return the mix to the double boiler and if it is solidifying, reheat slightly but the water should still be warm enough to fend off premature hardening. At this point, add all your essential oils DO NOT add more than 10mL of a 5% dilution of narcissus oil no matter how hard it is for you to 'fly'. It could cause nausea and even paralysis so just don't do it. Do not reheat at this point since you are almost done.

When finished, decant into a sturdy, heatproof container. You now have a very potent and potentially dangerous witches flying ointment.

This ointment is quite strong owing to the combinations of herbs and oils used so act in a responsible way and use it sparingly and only after ritual preparation. To use, apply first a small amount to the inside of your elbow and wait 24h to check for reactions.

Then if it is safe, wash yourself completely in a shower or bath and dry for 30 min (essential as your skin will push the ointment out instead of absorbing it.

Meditate on your intent and cast your circle with someone present who will watch over you. Apply a small amount to your body keeping it away from any sensitive areas, as well as your nose, mouth and eyes. Do *not* ingest this mixture. Once you are ready to come back, remove any remaining mixture and eat some fresh fruit, nuts and bread being careful to avoid meat, caffeine, peppermint (including tea), chamomile tea and chocolate.

Dosages given are for *Adults*. Unless specific dosage is labeled 'for Children', *do not give to Children*. Do not use if you are pregnant, breast-feeding, have a history of heart disease or have high blood pressure.


This recipe was contributed by Straif Blackthorn, a professional aromatherapist and witch of over 15 years.

EMDiderot
01-24-2016, 09:21 PM
Did you write the quoted text? I've come across several mentions of du Persil in my research on the ointment, and while it is often translated as "parsley", more than one author suspects it was actually wild parsley (or a different plant whose name escapes me) that is actually quite toxic. I would need to find my stack of papers again, but the recipe that I came across that captured the "essence" of the original recommended belladonna, mandrake, and digitalis as the main ingredients because the aconite and atropine are natural antidotes to each other. Given that I've seen squirrels dead near houses growing digitalis, I'm nervous of incorporating it, and will do several small test batches from the belladonna and mandrake harvests to determine what are safe concentrations and dosages administered through beeswax ointment before I ever actually "lather myself up" as it were.