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Awani
11-30-2015, 02:16 PM
Someone did a review on itunes of the Natural Born Alchemist podcast (http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com). Basically it said it should be called Natural Born Psychedelic user, and requested more alchemy topics. Which is fair and I plan to have more pure alchemy episodes, but...

The reason I named the podcast as I did was because psycedelics are, to me, 100 % alchemy and shamans are 100 % alchemists. In fact they are true lab alchemists. They make not only psychedelic mixtures but many other potions and tinctures as well.

Alchemy and Psychedelics are one and the same as both have the same purpose of transmutation, transformation and purification. And nothing can be more like the Phoenix metaphor than going through a well done psychedelic ritual.

If psychedelics is valid, well there is a thread for that HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3125-Is-psychedelics-a-valid-path/). In this thread I just wanted to officially state my opinion that it is alchemy.

:cool:

thoth
11-30-2015, 11:48 PM
https://psychedelicsalon.com/podcast-223-mckenna-hermeticism-and-alchemy-part-1/

I agree the two go together. it would be hard to put it better than our old friend Terrence - can't remember which of the 4 podcasts above where he describes the importance of the mind of the alchemist influencing what happens in the flask. (Dev, might be worth adding them to one of your episodes ?)

Also quantum theory - the experiment and experimenter cannot really be separated. psychedelics could help access the "above" part of the equation

zoas23
12-01-2015, 05:40 AM
I don't think Psychedelics is alchemy... in the same way that I don't think that the Inca priests were "hermeticists".

But I enjoy the diversity of the podcasts.

I liked a lot the one about "white privilege" and it was 100% "mundane" and yet very interesting (I'm sorry for the ones who equal the word "mundane" with "unworthy").

Andro
12-01-2015, 07:50 AM
All philosophies/traditions/religions/spirit-related practices, at their core, have the same foundations/origins.

However, they have all gone through different adaptations/enhancements/mutations/corruptions/infiltrations/etc...

Such names and brands are for social/cultural reasons and can be often more dividing and confusing rather than uniting and clarifying.

Like the Babel Tower allegory.

So, we still have to imprison such free concepts in cages of letters, words & languages, in order to be able to get the feeling that we communicate.


5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

Or in plain language:


God noted the powerful force within their unity of purpose.
As a result, he confused their language, causing them to speak different languages so they would not understand each other.
By doing this, God thwarted their plans.That jealous psychopathic Demiurgical Desert Deity (DDD) was (as usual) up to no good... and here we are... :)
______
I.M.S.I.

(In My Subjective Innerstanding)

Salazius
12-01-2015, 10:13 AM
My opinion is that psychedelics are not Alchemy, but they are nonetheless.

They are not because they don't create the Philosopher Stone as an external practice, in a Lab. Brewing a plant is not Alchemy as I define it, otherwise all people making a tincture of coffee (a "coffee", expresso, or a tea, an herbal tea) would be an Alchemist, which is absolutely not the case at all. The fact that there is an effect after the ingestion is not a point of definition of Alchemy here.

=> Alchemy here is defined, not as spagerics, not as archemy, not as "hermetical meditations". But only as the confection, and knowledge + experience of confecting the Phi Stone, as a transmutative matter over non/biological organism.

BUT

Yes, Psychedelics are an alchemy. They create a psychic ground were initiations can occur (death, rebirth, all this stuff). Exactly alike the coction of the Materia in the Athanor does when you are in link with your matter.

In this case it is more the Shamanistic or "Alche-myst" side of "Alchemy" (defined here as holistic science having in its belly all type of sub sciences and art as spagerics etc etc).

We can "alchemize" everything, from spor to meditation to cooking, to making love. Some people eve make "alchemical shamanistic tantra"... Everything can be alchemy but only Alchemy is Alchemy.

zoas23
12-01-2015, 12:48 PM
All philosophies/traditions/religions/spirit-related practices, at their core, have the same foundations/origins.

However, they have all gone through different adaptations/enhancements/mutations/corruptions/infiltrations/etc...

Such names and brands are for social/cultural reasons and can be often more dividing and confusing rather than uniting and clarifying.

Like the Babel Tower allegory.

So, we still have to imprison such free concepts in cages of letters, words & languages, in order to be able to get the feeling that we communicate.

I love this way of thinking, I admire the lineage of Hermeticists who tried to solve the puzzle of Babel using logic (specially Llull, Kircher and Leibniz) and the mystics who tried to find the original language of man moving in a different direction (Hildegard von Bingen and John Dee)... And the old ideal of εν το παν / hen to pan / all is one.

Only a fool ignores that the force behind any religion is the same God.

Early this year I had an amazing experience:

I bought the complete works of Philo of Alexandria to its publisher in Spanish. He was an orthodox jewish man with a small publishing house that had published only the complete works of a few authors, in most cases the "outsiders" of the Jewish tradition... Maimonides, Titus Flavius Josephus, Spinoza and Philo.

He invited me to his house to get the collection... because he was surprised: nobody had bought these books from him in some years (they were in perfect state, but the publishing date was 1970).

When I got into his house, I noticed two things: that he was a nice man and that he had a huge library, that's something I love.

His huge library contained many treasures, but there was something strange in it: ALL the authors were Jewish. The only book about art was his vast collection of books with reproductions of works by Marc Chagall.

I started to have a nice conversation with him because he was VERY curious about me and my interests. He wanted to know WHY I was interested in Philo.

I told him that I love neo-platonism and that I also found in him one of the early examples of a proto-Kabbalah. When he heard such thing his eyes shone and asked: "Do you understand Kabbalah???? I can't understand it! I read the Zohar again and again next to the Torah and I don't get it, there's something I am missing and I don't know what it is".

Since he was so incredibly kind and nice, I told him his problem:

"You can't begin with the Zohar, it's better to begin with the Sepher Yetzirah... but you won't get it either unless you read Plato, Plotinus, the Chaldean Oracles, the testimonials of Irenaeus about the ideas of Marcus the Gnostic... "

He seemed confused and asked: "Do you believe that Kabbalah is something that God taught to Abraham as the Sepher Yetzirah states?".

I told him that I didn't think so... that I even sure that Abraham existed, but that I was sure that the Sepher Yetzirah faked its own antiquity. He asked why would a sacred book lie about such an important matter. I replied to him that it was certainly a 2nd Century book and that it was typical of that age to fake the antiquity of the texts (Chaldean Oracles, the Hermetic texts and so on)... because such thing was probably more interesting by then than simply stating:

"We've read Plato, Pltotinus, the Chaldean Oracles, we've heard the ideas of Marcus and we designed something similar that works for the Hebrew language!".

I told him my opinion about a problem he was having: he was not completely understanding his own religion because he was ONLY reading about his own religion... and that if he admired Philo of Alexandria so much, he could follow his example: that the obvious path of Phio had been investigating authors that had nothing to do with Judaism as a tool to compare and understand better his own religion. I told him that he had published Spinoza too, who did exactly the same... and that it was a good idea to widen the spectrum of his lectures, that he was going to understand his religion better after doing such thing.

We finished the conversation with him taking notes of a lot of books that I suggested him to read to finally understand the Zohar. most of the books were not written by Jewish authors and in most cases didn't even mention the Jewish religion.

I loved that conversation.

__________________________________________________

Same thing happens to ALCHEMY...

During my life I've met more than a few persons who ONLY read books about alchemy and ONLY think about everything from the point of view of ALCHEMY.

Something interesting happens to them: they become idiots.

An author I love is Canseliet... it is possible to discuss if he was right or wrong about his ideas and procedures, but what I like about him is that when he wrote, he was open to the most diverse subjects... like the works of Swift.

A person who ONLY reads the R.A.M.S. collection again and again is likely going to become quite silly... It is important to read something else... Artaud, Bataille, Burroughs, Joyce, Michaux, Bergson, Deleuze, Oscar Wilde, the 1001 nights, Giovanni Boccaccio, a comic, Aesoph, Plato, Jünger, Kafka... or anything else!

I don't agree with the idea of "Everything is alchemy", I don't think that the African traditional shamans are "alchemists"... but I do believe that it is sane and reasonable to relate everything with everything.

That's what I like about the Podcasts of Dev:
They don't narrow themselves to "Alchemy" and are open to everything. That's a wise choice.

I am sure that most of the alchemists who did something of worth did it because one of their secrets was that they were interested in a LOT of things that were unrelated to "Alchemy" and that's fantastic.

I don't think that the issue of "White privilege" in modern societies is "Alchemy". Of course it isn't... but I do believe that even that issue CAN teach us something about Alchemy... and that's perfect.

I like the podcasts as they are: open-minded and without the need of being "puritan" about alchemy, without the need of being afraid of getting "off topic", since nothing is "off topic" if "all is one".

Awani
12-01-2015, 01:02 PM
Yes I agree with most of what has been said. It comes down to how the word alchemy is perceived. Hmm maybe I should have called it Natural Born Transformatonist. Because most episodes are about someone going through change of some sort, spiritual evolution or ascension.

But Alchemist sounds cooler in a marketing sense.

It is also a play on Natural Born Killer, a positive counter version.

Although having spent time with shamans in both Africa and the Amazon I can say that I have seen more real lab alchemy than I have anywhere else, or here in the forum. And they don't create the Stone? I think they do. ;)

But to each his own. For me the shamanic path seems to give more cures, health, benefits and enlightenment than standard alchemy. It is after all the source of everything that came after. And in a shamanic society you do not need gold.

And to be clear psychedelics are only a small part of the shamanic path. It is usually the most explosive to us Westerners, but they have tons of other cool shit. Stuff that boggles the mind.

The archetype of a real shaman is, IMO, without a doubt the very same as the alchemist. To say it is not takes away more from the archetype of the alchemist than it does from the archetype of the shaman who don't need to write shit down like some retarded amnesiac. LOL.

Shamanism is beyond language and modern alchemy is imprisoned in language.

--------------------------------------------------

I do like diversity and it would be boring with only one type of guest. There are already interviews done with a legendary video game designer, an ex-sex worker and an egyptologist... ;)

:cool:

Kiorionis
12-02-2015, 02:09 AM
Dev, your podcast is more alchemical than 99% of the things I see brandishing the word!


. For me the shamanic path seems to give more cures, health, benefits and enlightenment than standard alchemy. It is after all the source of everything that came after. And in a shamanic society you do not need gold.

And to be clear psychedelics are only a small part of the shamanic path

From what I understand, Dietas are an essential part of shamanism. Which to me sounds quite a bit like what alchemists do with plant tinctures. What I've never understood about "plant alchemy" is the correspondence to extraplanetary energy. Shamans as alchemists get my vote.

Awani
12-02-2015, 12:43 PM
Yes the retort, alembic and furnace is all in the body. ;)

A real dieta (not diet) can be just as transformative as a psychedelic experience. That is why there is truth in "you are what you eat"... and how you eat as well. A dieta is a kind of relationship with whatever you are on a diet on.

Anyway I think shamanism is the coolest thing. I also think it is the source of all spiritual paths. And where the human race began is where it will end, just like the serpent biting its tail. ;)

:cool:

Philosophical
12-02-2015, 10:10 PM
I'd say that the transformation that plant medicines can bring about is just like a metaphysical transmutation. Having done a dieta following a long line of medicine men I can assure you that you come out transmuted. Anyone with any sort of experience with plant medicines can find analogies to the 12 operations of alchemy in the various states but particularly dieta.

I can also see how one may define plant medicines as being outside the realm of alchemy it's all a matter of perspective and I'd say no one is right or wrong. I personally think being a good generalist is important, too many people in our society are too specified. It's like 5 blind men feeling different parts of an elephant and describing what they feel in the most detailed of descriptions yet they totally miss the point that all that they describe is part of a living organic whole. As too are alchemists with too much focus, in my humble opinion anyway.

Philosophical

Awani
12-13-2015, 10:06 PM
Having done a dieta following a long line of medicine men I can assure you that you come out transmuted.

Yeah!


...too many people in our society are too specified.

Yes!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Probably have this guy as guest:

MATHEW INGALLS is a practicing alchemist and has devoted his life to the Great Work of Alchemy. He is the current President of the International Alchemy Guild and also the head of the Church of the Emerald Tablet. He has an extensive background in Hermetic studies.

So there's another alchemist for the line-up. LOL!

:cool: