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Amur
01-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Hmm, I've explored this sector quite alot without attaching or using the lust to heal certain emotional aspects of myself but it does seem to me that lust is a natural way of healing the emotional body if one indulges deeply into it. For all the emotional damaged layers there is a lust layer or lust spirit trying to fill it up through sexual desire, the problem lies in that this mechanism has been suppressed collectively for a long time so it might take some time to get it back to what it once was, which is quite sad. The funny thing is that most 'spiritual texts' warn against lust and say that it is outright bad which seems to be the opposite of the whole mechanism...

Anyone else explored this sector?

Awani
01-13-2009, 10:54 AM
Yes this is very interesting, and ties in with Original Sin etc...

Don't forget that most spiritual texts have been censored and I believe that sexual power is a key that most religions doesn't want us mortals to have... the path towards enlightenment has always been suppressed!

I moved this topic to Spiritus Vitae (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79) (our sex-related area)!

Amur
01-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Yes this is very interesting, and ties in with Original Sin etc...

Don't forget that most spiritual texts have been censored and I believe that sexual power is a key that most religions doesn't want us mortals to have... the path towards enlightenment has always been suppressed!

I moved this topic to Spiritus Vitae (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79) (our sex-related area)!

My origina theory is that the whole concept of lust and sin was 'put there' to stop the human healing mechanism so that it could be better controlled into certain places through careful planning. Now that the 'world is built' the veil is being lifted away into a new world order... But I must say that I don't like it myself and say that largely it was a failure from the point of nature as so much nature has been destroyed just because of humanity...

solomon levi
01-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Anyone else explored this sector?

Yes. I guess I would simplify or genericise it.
Anything that produces guilt will keep people enslaved.
Anything that is suppressed must be allowed/expressed.

I like Jung: "I'd rather be whole than good."

So sex/lust is one of the things that plays quite well in this arena.
Sexual energy is a very powerful energy, so one can be powerfully
twisted and programmed through it. Associate anything bad with it
and you'll have problems in many areas of your life.

Then again, the mind itself is the source of all problems - that we
think about them, and learn to think in specific ways.
Life without thinking, without the mind, is the only solution IMO.
I don't think anyone can achieve "balance", or a "healthy" sexual
practice. Everything "balanced" must become unbalanced again,
so that is no solution.

Awani
12-13-2009, 04:09 PM
My origina theory is that the whole concept of lust and sin was 'put there' to stop the human healing mechanism so that it could be better controlled into certain places through careful planning. Now that the 'world is built' the veil is being lifted away into a new world order...
Lust can heal like a headache pill, get your mind off the problem... of course for big problems using Lust can lead to over-consumption i.e. sex-addiction.

:cool:

solomon levi
12-04-2010, 05:06 AM
It's hard to speak about lust without more definition.
If the lust belongs to the mind, it seems to produce problems.
But if the lust belongs to the body, I'd say that is healthy sexual functioning.

Sex has been a taboo for so long and the word lust is tinged with that negativity.
But lust is no different than "thirst" - that is, it is a magnet for secret fire/kundalini, as far as sexual alchemy is concerned.

The allegory fits very well - the serpent/kundalini at the base of the tree of life/central nervous system and the eagle/brain at the top.
And that we are to extract a mercury/ojas/prana from saturn/semen/basal chakra and sublimate or circulate it...

Sex/lust is definitely a part of alchemy. Hermes even has his phallic herms, and these things exist because they are true;
that is, one can actually get an erection taking elixirs.

http://www.theoi.com/image/F11.1Hermes.jpg

There is some science behind this if you look at various forms of nitrogen in the body.
Nitric oxide, which i mentioned in the Smoking Geniuses thread, causes vasodilation of blood vessels.
A similar thing is happening with Viagara.

This may point to a preparation of nitre as the Philosophers' stone.
I am often led in that direction anyways.

solomon levi
12-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Not that this makes it "right" or whatever, but "the gods" themselves were/are extremely lusty
and also successful alchemists. There is no need to see these two as opposing.
It doesn't matter how many spiritual disciples say otherwise.
Be your own lamp. First remove all guilt, shame, judgement, and then see what is true for you.

The most vile is the most sacred (I should define that a little :) - saturn; basal chakra)

Andro
12-04-2010, 05:27 PM
It doesn't matter how many spiritual disciples say otherwise.
Be your own lamp. First remove all guilt, shame, judgement, and then see what is true for you.

The most vile is the most sacred.

How can I not love you when you speak like that?!?

Fuck, I love you anyway :)

solomon levi
12-04-2010, 07:00 PM
:D
I loved that when i said "the shoemaker's thirst" you knew what I meant!
Remember that?

I love you too my friend.

oh - did I say "disciples"? I meant disciplines. :)

Frater IA
01-14-2011, 08:02 AM
Lust is something that I understand very little of, but know all too well at the same time. I'm still in the process of learning not to judge myself. Anyway. Just wanted to throw in, that with Reiki, the whole process of tantric sex isn't actually physical sex between you and another person, but is something that can be done in meditation, by taking the masculine and feminine polarities of your spirit/soul/etc and having them mesh/meet/communicate until release. Its kind of like an internal spiritual sex. (like mastrubation for your mind!)

Just throwin it out there.

III
01-15-2011, 01:04 AM
I don't think "lust" per se has much if anything to do with alchemical sex or Tantric or Taoist sexual/alchemical practices, at least not in any definition of "lust" that I have seen. "Lust" just isn't the same thing in my opinion or experience. Just as Tantric sex isn't about lust a Tantric feast has nothing to do with gluttony. I haven't felt "lust" in a long time though I practice alchemical sex on regular occasion and Tantric massage and meditation on various occassions, all quite without lust.

The Tantric arts have long been associated with the healing arts.

DanceofRebirth
01-23-2012, 12:16 PM
In many cultures across the world, the concept of lust is indeed taken negatively and is still closeted within people. While the sexual culture of America is giving rise to greater understanding of it, it's only going so quickly and that doesn't involve other areas or regions necessarily. We are still a long way from sexual freedom and comfort the world over. I've never directly considered Lust to be a healing practice, but I've read a little of sacred sexuality and I can see how it could sometimes be a part of a very healthy experience for those who take part. Thanks for posting, it's all very interesting.


Lust is something that I understand very little of, but know all too well at the same time. I'm still in the process of learning not to judge myself. Anyway. Just wanted to throw in, that with Reiki, the whole process of tantric sex isn't actually physical sex between you and another person, but is something that can be done in meditation, by taking the masculine and feminine polarities of your spirit/soul/etc and having them mesh/meet/communicate until release. Its kind of like an internal spiritual sex. (like mastrubation for your mind!)

Just throwin it out there.

I find this to be very interesting, knowing nothing directly of sexual healing, I can say that I've experienced some part of this inner self meet up until release, and it was quite powerful for healing parts of myself together than had previously been rent asunder due to emotional trauma. Do you have any links to further information on this one, Frater IA?

III
01-25-2012, 08:17 AM
In many cultures across the world, the concept of lust is indeed taken negatively and is still closeted within people. While the sexual culture of America is giving rise to greater understanding of it, it's only going so quickly and that doesn't involve other areas or regions necessarily. We are still a long way from sexual freedom and comfort the world over. I've never directly considered Lust to be a healing practice, but I've read a little of sacred sexuality and I can see how it could sometimes be a part of a very healthy experience for those who take part. Thanks for posting, it's all very interesting.


I find this to be very interesting, knowing nothing directly of sexual healing, I can say that I've experienced some part of this inner self meet up until release, and it was quite powerful for healing parts of myself together than had previously been rent asunder due to emotional trauma. Do you have any links to further information on this one, Frater IA?

Hi DanceofRebirth,

Lee Lozowick made an important point about tantric sex. Some people get carried away by methods and techniques, they learn more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing in exacting detail. They lose the erotic energies and "passion" in the pursuit of technical exactness thereby completely missing the boat.

DanceofRebirth
05-17-2012, 02:18 PM
Hi DanceofRebirth,

Lee Lozowick made an important point about tantric sex. Some people get carried away by methods and techniques, they learn more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing in exacting detail. They lose the erotic energies and "passion" in the pursuit of technical exactness thereby completely missing the boat.

I'm asking for references that people have found most helpful in this process, specifically theories and discussions, not necessarily a 'how to' step by step guidebook, so in reading your paragraph, I've rather entirely missed your meaning. I will, however, be looking up this Lee Lozowick person, so thank you for your recommendation~!

III
05-30-2012, 05:08 AM
In many cultures across the world, the concept of lust is indeed taken negatively and is still closeted within people. While the sexual culture of America is giving rise to greater understanding of it, it's only going so quickly and that doesn't involve other areas or regions necessarily. We are still a long way from sexual freedom and comfort the world over. I've never directly considered Lust to be a healing practice, but I've read a little of sacred sexuality and I can see how it could sometimes be a part of a very healthy experience for those who take part. Thanks for posting, it's all very interesting.




http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Frater IA http://forum.alchemyforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?p=12787#post12787)
Lust is something that I understand very little of, but know all too well at the same time. I'm still in the process of learning not to judge myself. Anyway. Just wanted to throw in, that with Reiki, the whole process of tantric sex isn't actually physical sex between you and another person, but is something that can be done in meditation, by taking the masculine and feminine polarities of your spirit/soul/etc and having them mesh/meet/communicate until release. Its kind of like an internal spiritual sex. (like mastrubation for your mind!)

Just throwin it out there.





I find this to be very interesting, knowing nothing directly of sexual healing, I can say that I've experienced some part of this inner self meet up until release, and it was quite powerful for healing parts of myself together than had previously been rent asunder due to emotional trauma. Do you have any links to further information on this one, Frater IA?

Hi DanceofRebirth,

What frater IA has to say is partially correct in some practices of Tantra. However, it is radically misleading. Mathuna (spelling?) is an extended physical intercourse with real human partners. The ritual may go on all day with breaks and food etc as necessary.

The Tibetan from teaches it initially as real sex. As the monk "progresses" he learns to invoke energy beings or at least other beings not physically present for such practices. In India, there are 3 levels of tantra, the heroic which is with real honest to goodness sex, and two others including one form suitable for celebates. INDECENT PRACTICES AND EROTIC TRANCE - Understanding Tantra by J.R. Haule http://www.jrhaule.net/ipet.html. It is a downlaodable book, free. It is one of the best presentations of tantra I have seen. Haule is a Jungian therapist who took up the study of tantric alchemy.

Frater IA also confuses the Alchemical marriage with the Alchemical Union. The Alchemical Marriage is sort of the door into making a real beginning. Alchemical union is really quite rare and quite uncomprehesible to those who have not done it. It is attempted many many times for any time that succeeds. Also like a lot of things it appears to procedd in levels that are not necessarily evident until you suddenly transition.

Real genuine Alchemical Union is a dramatic permanent change of being, Like so many things, once it happens it has always been.

Most of the things written about sexual alchemies has been written by people totally ignorant of them, or want to hide them so as not be burned at the stake, stoned, butchered etc. Even in semi sex accepting societies the idea of 4-8 hours of intercourse is considered a little strange. Tantra has been "cleaned up" for modern American consumption and thoroughly corrupted in the process. Haule estimates that perhpas 1% of those teaching tantra are teaching a real tantiric alchemy. The rest are teaching "sacred sex" or "there is a sucker born every second" or whatever. It is MUCH easier to find a partner for "Would you like to learn 1 hour orgasm? " or "Would you like to learn the 7 (9 or 10) levels of Taoist orgasm" or something like that compared to " Do you want to spend 10 years learning how to totally transform yourself and your partner"

An example of the sex approach is a group called OneTaste (.com) that teaches folks to OM (Orgasmic Meditation). It was most secret information 100 years ago. It's good to know that the vulva or penis and surrounds give direct access to perhaps 20 different energy channels and how to use them. OneTasrte is offering a map of the vulva/clitoris with at least some of the energy points and have videos demonstrations the procedure etc,. They teach it live at their establishment in San Francisco and workshops elsewhere. I've watched some of Nicoles video talks. There is no doubt in my mind that the lady is an accomplished alchemist. Sex, even "tantric" sex does not an alchemist make. It goes much further than that. Another way to describe tantric alchemy is as a practice that purifies at higher and higher levels as shaktipat is had at higher and higher levels and intensities. The name of the game might be "how much divine ecstacy (knowledge, LOVE) can you stand?". That is an unwarented simplification but perhaps it gives a better idea about it. The secret keeps itself.. There is much to be learned in participating as priest and priestess in an alchemical yoni-lingam puja where you have an actively praying and adoring audiance , or as EJ Gold calls it, a sexual seance. Both the adored and the adoring are necessary components. Some of the practices are often taught under the description "Sex Magic"

However, learning all sensitive spots in a mechanical way isn't the point either.

I practice a full sexual heroic tantra with emphasis on the metaphysical/mystical. alchemy. Typically a full session that includes, as EJ Gold puts it, "Work, Pray, Play", might take 8 to 10 hours sometimes spread across 2 days if it isn't completed the first day. Holding sexual asanas for some hours can be difficult and requires practice. As I pointed out to my now partner when she was just beginning the sexual practice, when she asked what makes this different than just having sex. I aksed her if there were not simpler ways to have a sex and if she had ever engaged in sexual practices for hours and hours in each session with anybody esle. And you know, most people consider sex to be a 5-20 minute thing, not a 4 hour pracrtice. Alchemically an hour of sex s a quickie. However, a practiced pair can get into erotic trance in 5 minutes and that leaves 55 minutes for work, so it is possible. Time sure flies when you are in eternal time. I've had 5 hours pass in a blink of an eye yet have lots and lots of memories of the experience and arrive back in my body to find myself still sexually engaged but winding down. It's sort of like going into "breathless samahi" fully joined with one's partner and returning together.

MarkostheGnostic
05-30-2012, 09:29 PM
:) Lust (Sexual desire) is characterized by the Qabalistic sphere Yesod. Its union with the sphere of Tiphereth symbolizes the Hierosgamos - the Sacred Marriage of the Moon with the Sun, the Loins with the Heart, Svadhisthana chakra with Anahata chakra, or Eros with Agape (the Caritas Synthesis in Catholic theology). Remaining strictly identified with Lust becomes an addiction to that sphere, which prevents one from transcending this pole of the Instinct-Intellect continuum. Both polar opposites are transcended by Agape, or warm yet disinterested Love - the synthesis and balance of 'fire' at the instinctual end of the spinal continuum, and 'cold light' of the intellect.

http://i46.tinypic.com/332t2r6.jpg

ALC93
05-31-2012, 03:06 AM
Hmm, I've explored this sector quite alot without attaching or using the lust to heal certain emotional aspects of myself but it does seem to me that lust is a natural way of healing the emotional body if one indulges deeply into it. For all the emotional damaged layers there is a lust layer or lust spirit trying to fill it up through sexual desire, the problem lies in that this mechanism has been suppressed collectively for a long time so it might take some time to get it back to what it once was, which is quite sad. The funny thing is that most 'spiritual texts' warn against lust and say that it is outright bad which seems to be the opposite of the whole mechanism...
Anyone else explored this sector?

Hi Amur!

New around here, but I saw your post and had a few rupees to add to the discussion...

Depending upon how you define the terms "lust," "love," et cetera, it would be possible to turn the whole discussion into a battle of differing terminologies. If I am hearing you right though, "lust" means "sexual desire," and the main problem is that this "sexual desire" is emotionally repressed. That, as a result of this, the emotional self is no longer able to fulfill an important part of its own function, and that (perhaps) the emotional self may be healed "back to what it once was" by getting back in touch with its sexual life. This makes sense too, because there is a very deep connection between emotions and sexuality and (regardless of whether or not you are connecting them Occultly through Qabalah, Yogi, or Reiki terminology) we know that emotional life tends to be less free if a person is sexually stiffled. I think that getting in touch with one's sexuality can be a very important aspect of becoming a whole person.

Regarding religious texts: I generally think that most religious texts that warn against "immoral" sexuality, et cetera, are more of a product of their cultures (and their desire to control the sexual lives of their women!) than of any inherent badness of sex in any mystical sense. And how many sons did Hermes Trismegistus have again?

Perhaps something should be said for sex as a "distraction" for the work. Even Aleister Crowley writes that human sexual desire can distract one from the mystical Great Work, although his solution was to ensure that the body was well satisfied. This brings up the question though as to whether sex is to be seen as problematic as an act in itself, or whether it is problematic because it stops one, or distracts one, from some other (possibly greater) act. In final analysis, it seems that a lot of people have been made through acts of sex.