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Dizardos
01-13-2009, 08:08 PM
I was wondering what other students of the Alchemical Art would do when they are successful in their endeavors.

Personally I would consider a successful completion of the Magnum Opus to be equivalent to having everything one could desire, but of course being human there never are true limits at which point one could say: There is nothing left to do. There is always more to do. Considering that one has everything one needs for him or herself there remain two aims left to be accomplished:


1) The creation of the perfect world. Alchemists take care of their Philosophical Garden in order to sustain themselves by means of the fruits of the harvests. This is exaltation of all life in order to build pillars of Strength upon which the world can rest.

The way the world is currently governed is a disgrace to true Philosophy where Life would stand out above the Golden Calf instead of the other way around. What we find is that the devious financiers enslave the world. It creates no value, but is parasitism of the worst kind. Practices such as these are not limited to this industry, but is common amongst many and pathetic if I may be so free to express my opinion. This is to be 'civilized' if we would listen to their serpent's tongue.

Philosophers of older times have already sought answers to problems such as these. Plato expresses it the following way: "Until philosophers are kings, or the kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have rest from their evils - no, nor the human race, as I believe - and then only will this our State have a possibility of life and behold the light of day."

To change matters is not necessarily that difficult, but it is often seen that wise Philosophers retreat from the world to live a reclusive life. One Philosopher who is so much wiser than I am even tells to 'not get it in your head that you owe the world something for the world is getting exactly what it needs'. How do others feel about this? In a certain sense he is right for everyone carries responsibility, but then again people are not too much more than the external imput they have received from their environment, so in that sense creating a wiser society is certainly within the limits of achievement. I understand that my words are of a simple nature when I do not have a Sword of Damocles hanging above my head, an extra virtue conferred to the possessors of the Magnum Opus by those who want the power that they possess. I have not been chased around the town by a mob after having cured people or threatened by the local highway robbers who wanted the gold and silver.


2) Reaching up to the supernatural levels. The achievement of the Magnum Opus brings us a step closer to the supernatural, but without a doubt we could come much closer. Stepping into the darkness to acquire such abilities belongs to a difficulty class that towers far above that of the Magnum Opus. Its greatest difficulty might lie in its plain simplicity if we consider the Nature that is all around us.

How do others feel about this?

Have a nice day everyone!

Dizardos

Aleilius
02-04-2009, 02:03 AM
Please excuse me for neglecting to reply to this topic sooner, but I had not the proper words to express my perspective.

I believe the successful completion of the Magnum Opus should not necessarily be about acquiring one's desires, but should rather be about understanding one's own true course in the cosmos. The very acquisition of this knowledge, the knowledge of how you and I fit into creation & the world, will indeed unveil the path to follow.

This begs the question, does the road always lead to the same goal, or does this goal vary from person to person?

I believe the path always leads to the same goal.

At a certain point during our journey, we come to realize that all things are of one common root. We are all part of the tree that arises from this divine root. If one part of our tree catches an illness or disease its health becomes compromised, and the whole tree falls into sickness. When one suffers, we all suffer.

A master cannot turn a blind eye to the pain and suffering of his fellow brothers & sisters. A master seeks to end all suffering, and to heal the source of humanities illness. One who has journeyed this far must carry out these tasks in order to see to the completion of the divine task. I believe this marks the final maturation & exaltation of the Great Work.

We must acquire the golden word. This word is of divine origin, and possesses the ability to transmute all into perfect gold. We must speak this word to our fellow man, and thus shall bring about the perfection of creation.

-----

What will I do after I complete the Magnum Opus?

I will rest.

kerkring
02-04-2009, 04:03 PM
From my understanding, when you can make the red stone, you have reached a certain level of spiritual development and you can then use it to reconnect with Tiphereth and thus re-establish a permanent connection with the aspect of your higher self that resides there.

You should then receive information from your higher self on what you are supposed to accomplish during your time on earth. So I'd set out to accomplish these things using the abilities granted by the level of development that I would have reached. I'd also keep pushing my researches in alchemy, and the higher planes of consciousness that would presumably open up, forward. I'd also leave a written record for others to follow and improve upon.

Salazius
02-05-2009, 01:36 PM
Hi,

For me, you realise the Magnum Opus, when you do not have desire at all.
So you have the white rose, and the red one, also the Eternal Lamp, and the capacity to heal yourself, to heal animals, plants, and metals, crystals, and humans, because, as humans, we are "fermented" to this realm and therefore, have the capacity to make lead-humans, gold-humans.

You are fully in the Sun, enlightened and One with Nature, in body, soul and mind.

Your path is accomplished when you have accomplished successfully your mission. The Stone is only the beginning. Not an end, a step of developpement.

Hephælios
02-05-2009, 05:38 PM
Kallipolis is the city Plato speaks of as his Utopia... at the root of the word is "art"(kalli)...I don't believe they (the true alchemists) sit idly by as hermits. This plan- has been in effect for thousands of years. The goal is the golden city...but to get there you must pass through Cala.

Through the door of the natural you gain access to the supernatural...or at least that's what I've read.

solomon levi
02-07-2009, 10:05 PM
I hope this isn't taken negatively, but how can anyone answer this question?
If you answer the question, you place the known on the unknown and make
the future the past. How can I have any idea who I will be when I complete the work? I will be something that is not in my memory, not in my words, not in
my ability to explain. That is the prima materia, necessary for the beginning of
the work.

Awani
02-08-2009, 02:03 PM
I hope this isn't taken negatively, but how can anyone answer this question?A very good point!

:cool:

Vlad
02-09-2009, 06:40 PM
I was wondering what other students of the Alchemical Art would do when they are successful in their endeavors.


Supposedly the red lion allows you to go to other realms. I for one would like to take a look in/at other realms.

WCH
02-09-2009, 08:23 PM
I might be unusual in this, but I think of the Great Work as a metaphor, that it isn't really possible to complete it, any more than it's possible to find the end of a spiral. It's the process of life... always improving, but never perfect.

Of course, I'm heavily influenced by Nietzsche here, and his contrasted notions of the Superman and the Last Man. The Last Man is content and wants for nothing, and therefore can no longer grow, whereas the Superman is constantly overcoming himself.

Salazius
02-10-2009, 08:40 AM
The only realm you go when you have the Stone is Here & Now, in the Divine Point of Light, just between your eyes. You also stay Now.Here in the world of forms.
When you have the Stone, you do not move at all. All the rest is mental astral travel.

Aleilius
02-10-2009, 06:09 PM
I hope this isn't taken negatively, but how can anyone answer this question?
I think of this question as more of a thought experiment. My views are quite utopian, and these are reflected in my reply.

I don't have a problem answering this question because deep down inside I know what I truly want.

Was my answer realistic? Definitely not, but it was fun to consider such a thing.

solomon levi
02-10-2009, 10:59 PM
Addendum - Considering how consciousness works, I would say that any image
or idea that one holds will actually prevent one from finding/achieving the stone.
I know it's twisted... if we didn't have an idea we wouldn't search in the first
place. But that's a paradox for each to solve.

Seth-Ra
04-06-2009, 09:00 PM
Perhaps that is the "trick" to the matter. For each one going after the Stone, there is an "image" of what they are after: peace, rest, exploration, understanding, perfection, knowledge, wisdom, healing...ect...ect...ect
Maybe it is these images that give us our result. The stone is only limited by "imagination" as it were, so just as our "goal"/"image" is similar, yet different, so are our materials and ways (which is why none agree, unless finding like-minded), and also why we have the different "power levels"(respectfully), of the Stone. What i mean by that, isnt the "you've made it to the first degree" type level, but rather, what its capabilities are (transmuting metals, healing, transmuting all matter according to thought, ect..ect), and indeed what its manifestation is; physical, or within self.

Put simply: Each persons "image" of it, is part of that person, and helps make their way, and their Stone. Though it may be different, if it be good, then it is the same, yet unique. Aside from "mundane lab materials", i think it is WE, that are the most important of ingredients for the Stone. And sometimes i think we "make and use" the Stone without realizing it. We reach into the "good/true" side of ourselves and act on it. What is the Stone good for, if not used, what is knowledge, secret or not, no matter how good, no matter how much combined with wisdom, if not used? But with that, the Azoth always comes back to the beginning, law of octaves, always back to Do, but on a higher level. So perhaps when studying nature, we should also study ourselves. ;)

Now to answer the question of this thread, what would i do with achieving it:
I would use it to heal those that needed healing, feed them that needed feeding, give drink to those that are thirsty, clothe them that need clothing, and teach those who seek teaching. Take care of the ones i love (but not in excess), and learn and understand more of nature, and of God, and do my part for the greater good. :)

~Seth-Ra

Play_Dough
04-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Upon completion of 'The Great Work' one is given 'carte blanch' (Full Powers) to enter into any context or circumstance (Plato called 'contexts' and 'circumstances' by the name of 'Forms') with the only limits being 'imagination' and 'daring' and 'choice' emanating from infinite possibilities.

A choice to enjoy a new 'human experience' is one option.

At the pinnacle of completion (opinion) the condition that 'one' finds oneself in resembles (metaphorically) 'The Garden of Eden' wherein 'one' needs only 'to ask' in order 'to receive'.

The abstract condition is (opinion):
1) You, the individualized and purified consciousness

2) The ecstatic (of, pertaining to, or characterized by ecstasy) presence of 'God' (which is consciousness empty of 'self' and merged or united with 'God').

3) An infinite 'menu' of choices and experiences limited only by (repeat) imagination and daring.

The main/primary energetic is the realization of 'eternal life' so re-entering the realm (underworld) that is ruled by death (the one from which you just escaped) may not seem too attractive.

Once you choose a 'long term' adventure (e.g., a time traveller) you then 'merge' with the chosen context/adventure and actually (temporarily) 'become' whatever it is that you desire, along with the 'unfolding circumstances' that make the new adventure seem 'real'.

Welcome to the greatest list of interactive games ever created!

You may comfortably choose 'one game at a time' because you now realize that there is an eternity stretched-out before you and that any adventure is available to you, either now or later.

Hopefully (personal opinion) one will choose an adventure unlike your immediately previous adventure which took nearly a lifetime to decomplile in order to allow you to rise (once again) from 'The Below' and to return to 'The Above'.

Congratulations! You freed the genie from 'the bottle' and you now, as a result, receive the fulfillment infinite 'wishes'!

.

horticult
04-06-2009, 11:18 PM
What is the Stone good for, if not used, what is knowledge, secret or not, no matter how good, no matter how much combined with wisdom, if not used?

According to my observations Nature produced abundance & does not mind wasting, e.g. semen and everything ;), except $, but these are not natural.

Seth-Ra
04-07-2009, 03:22 AM
According to my observations Nature produced abundance & does not mind wasting, e.g. semen and everything ;), except $, but these are not natural.

True, but just like you called it, "wasting"; to produce and not use, is a waste. Isn't the goal to not waste what we know, to not stay up in our ivory towers, with books and learn, but instead to get out in nature, and use what we learn to help the better good. To a Ruler who has wisdom, but does not use it, do we not regard him as a fool, and as wicked? Is he not in the wrong for neglecting such a precious thing?

How much more are we, if we create the Stone (regardless of form), or even, learn the ways of nature, and do not use either, nor the wisdom we pick up along the way. (to neglect either 1 is to disgrace them all.) ;)

horticult
04-07-2009, 02:58 PM
I know Bible parables about talents etc.
But the reality is not so easy, God knows why.
Its almost impossible to do something "good" to somebody.
Check the destiny of peoples who really do some good for mankind.
Where are traces of adepts, except maybe Flamel?

If you rely on Bible, then everything is vanity and Gods thoughts are not our thoughts. This quite is maybe not exact as I do not know english translation of Bible.

Seth-Ra
04-07-2009, 04:53 PM
I know Bible parables about talents etc.
But the reality is not so easy, God knows why.
Its almost impossible to do something "good" to somebody.
Check the destiny of peoples who really do some good for mankind.
Where are traces of adepts, except maybe Flamel?

If you rely on Bible, then everything is vanity and Gods thoughts are not our thoughts. This quite is maybe not exact as I do not know english translation of Bible.

If you have something to offer someone (like healing, etc..etc) then its not that hard to do good for them, unless they don't want it, in which case, at least you tried.

True, God's thoughts aren't our thoughts, but that doesn't mean you don't have to try to be good and help people. It's not about getting adepts/disciples/followers, it's about doing what's right. Surely we don't seek the Stone for our sole benefit, as greed is not becoming of us. ;)
Besides, isn't the whole point of this thread to tell of the good we would do with the Stone upon getting it? :) It's never wrong, or vain, to do right. ;)


~Seth-Ra

horticult
04-07-2009, 10:21 PM
People mostly do not want to be cured.

Seth-Ra
04-07-2009, 10:57 PM
People mostly do not want to be cured.

Thats true, but its not our place to not offer healing, some do, and we don't know who will and who wont, until we ask. We spend our time learning and making, yes to help us, but what good do we labor to help ourselves, if we don't help others? What a lonely destiny that would be. ;)

Im not saying many will want it, but it is our place to try. ;)
Tis only my opinion though. :)

solomon levi
06-05-2009, 10:27 PM
I was wondering what other students of the Alchemical Art would do when they are successful in their endeavors.

Personally I would consider a successful completion of the Magnum Opus to be equivalent to having everything one could desire, but of course being human there never are true limits at which point one could say: There is nothing left to do. There is always more to do. Considering that one has everything one needs for him or herself there remain two aims left to be accomplished:


1) The creation of the perfect world. Alchemists take care of their Philosophical Garden in order to sustain themselves by means of the fruits of the harvests. This is exaltation of all life in order to build pillars of Strength upon which the world can rest.

The way the world is currently governed is a disgrace to true Philosophy where Life would stand out above the Golden Calf instead of the other way around. What we find is that the devious financiers enslave the world. It creates no value, but is parasitism of the worst kind. Practices such as these are not limited to this industry, but is common amongst many and pathetic if I may be so free to express my opinion. This is to be 'civilized' if we would listen to their serpent's tongue.

Philosophers of older times have already sought answers to problems such as these. Plato expresses it the following way: "Until philosophers are kings, or the kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have rest from their evils - no, nor the human race, as I believe - and then only will this our State have a possibility of life and behold the light of day."

To change matters is not necessarily that difficult, but it is often seen that wise Philosophers retreat from the world to live a reclusive life. One Philosopher who is so much wiser than I am even tells to 'not get it in your head that you owe the world something for the world is getting exactly what it needs'. How do others feel about this? In a certain sense he is right for everyone carries responsibility, but then again people are not too much more than the external imput they have received from their environment, so in that sense creating a wiser society is certainly within the limits of achievement. I understand that my words are of a simple nature when I do not have a Sword of Damocles hanging above my head, an extra virtue conferred to the possessors of the Magnum Opus by those who want the power that they possess. I have not been chased around the town by a mob after having cured people or threatened by the local highway robbers who wanted the gold and silver.


2) Reaching up to the supernatural levels. The achievement of the Magnum Opus brings us a step closer to the supernatural, but without a doubt we could come much closer. Stepping into the darkness to acquire such abilities belongs to a difficulty class that towers far above that of the Magnum Opus. Its greatest difficulty might lie in its plain simplicity if we consider the Nature that is all around us.

How do others feel about this?

Have a nice day everyone!

Dizardos


When I first read this thread, I really only caught the title and responded to that, so I missed Dizardos' other questions. Let me try this again, or rather, for the first time from now:

1) When I succeed, I'll take one step at a time... which initially will be taking care of mundane things, bettering my life so that I don't live by the dollar, someone else's dollar that is, save perhaps as a cover if deemed necessary, a front. I'll work on some of the powers or abilities and perfect them, such as OBEs, seeing, invisibility and teleportation... I won't be any good to anyone if the government or some other tyrannical force gets a hold of me and imprisons me or tortures me, so I want to be able to evade that if necessary. Then I will travel and assists those that spirit places in front of me, give what can be taken, continuing to explore other realities and the universe and dimensions, etc. Probably find some others like me and see what they've learned...

That's just a dream from the past though. I don't know what I will truly do. I don't want to imprint the virgin territory with knowns.

2) I don't plan to try and change the world. The world certainly doesn't need saving or rescuing. That is a limited mind view - thinking. I don't plan to have that mind. My mind would be more like non-duality: just this - nothing more or less, better or worse; no other to make comparisons. Though there is a possibility in engaging in these games as a controlled folly. Otherwise, I am already of a mind that doesn't believe in any form of government - government is not a solution, even if I had conceived some ideal government; there's no such thing. Division/failure is already intended in the concept of governing/change, etc...

3)I'm not sure what "supernatural levels" means to you, Dizardos. The kundalini I'm experiencing now could be supernatural to most. Could you outline more what you mean?

solomon

Seraph
12-17-2009, 11:54 PM
I would assume it's like a Hindu or Buddhist reaching enlightenment- You have knowledge and power immeasurable, and nothing can phase you. You, as a master of the physical and a link to the divine, are free from suffering because you hold the secrets of eternity.

Salazius
12-18-2009, 07:13 AM
Reaching the Enlightened State (as permanence, is the first step). But it do not mean to have "powers".
For me, there is a difference between the Enlightened, and the Master.

The first is focused in Presence/life as a permanent state, the Last have powers and is a complete Human Superior & Divinans, he integrates the state of Enlightened also.

The Adept, by being an Hermetist, more or less knowlegeable, have the Stones, White and Red, can be Enlightened, and can access to Powers more easely with it's Tinctures, and mastery of the forces in the Universes.