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Michael Sternbach
01-17-2016, 08:35 PM
Start with his plant works.

z0 K

I often read the recommendation that aspiring Alchemists should start with plant work. Why is that? It seems like in historical times, most adepts started with the Great Work directly.

zoas23
01-18-2016, 08:24 AM
I often read the recommendation that aspiring Alchemists should start with plant work. Why is that? It seems like in historical times, most adepts started with the Great Work directly.

Last week a friend of mine asked me if I could help him to find antimony. I knew he had zero experience at the lab.
I asked him if he knew how to extract the salt of a plant, he told me that he had no idea.
I told him: start with plant work!

*It is cheaper.

*It is by far more forgiving (yeah, you can still kill yourself with plants -i.e, a methanol intoxication)... but most of the mistakes that a beginner can do are less serious with plants.

*Except for the chemists, most "beginners" have ZERO lab experience. Working with plants is an excellent way to learn CHEMICAL procedures in a safe environment.

*When I wanted to paint, I went to the atelier of a painter and asked him to be his student... he didn't give me a brush, he didn't give me oil paint... he gave me a pencil and a paper and told me: "let's learn to draw first".

JDP
01-18-2016, 10:56 AM
Last week a friend of mine asked me if I could help him to find antimony. I knew he had zero experience at the lab.
I asked him if he knew how to extract the salt of a plant, he told me that he had no idea.
I told him: start with plant work!

*It is cheaper.

*It is by far more forgiving (yeah, you can still kill yourself with plants -i.e, a methanol intoxication)... but most of the mistakes that a beginner can do are less serious with plants.

*Except for the chemists, most "beginners" have ZERO lab experience. Working with plants is an excellent way to learn CHEMICAL procedures in a safe environment.

*When I wanted to paint, I went to the atelier of a painter and asked him to be his student... he didn't give me a brush, he didn't give me oil paint... he gave me a pencil and a paper and told me: "let's learn to draw first".

The only problem with this plan is that mineral/metallic matters do not quite behave like organic ones, so their "chemistry" is different.

Also, in this day and age it is more difficult to find someone who truly has zero experience in a lab. We all had to go through high-school chemistry, which has a lab section where the basic procedures are taught. My first experiences with reactions between substances were during high-school chemistry, so by the time I started engaging in alchemical & chymical research I was pretty well acquainted with the basic lab procedures. Of course, I have come a long way since those long gone days by my own accumulated experience. Now I could teach my chemistry teachers a thing or two that they totally ignored, and even denied and branded as "impossible". As Darth Vader would say: "When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master." My teachers would of course answer: "Only a master of chimeras, JDP."

**crucibles & retorts proceed to clash in mortal combat**; at the end of the brutal struggle my teachers' vanishing corpses leave only their lab-coats behind on the floor, topped by a bit of artificial gold produced from silver.

zoas23
01-18-2016, 12:56 PM
Since Andro asked to create new threads when things begin to go off topic, here we go:


I often read the recommendation that aspiring Alchemists should start with plant work. Why is that? It seems like in historical times, most adepts started with the Great Work directly.


Last week a friend of mine asked me if I could help him to find antimony. I knew he had zero experience at the lab.
I asked him if he knew how to extract the salt of a plant, he told me that he had no idea.
I told him: start with plant work!

*It is cheaper.

*It is by far more forgiving (yeah, you can still kill yourself with plants -i.e, a methanol intoxication)... but most of the mistakes that a beginner can do are less serious with plants.

*Except for the chemists, most "beginners" have ZERO lab experience. Working with plants is an excellent way to learn CHEMICAL procedures in a safe environment.

*When I wanted to paint, I went to the atelier of a painter and asked him to be his student... he didn't give me a brush, he didn't give me oil paint... he gave me a pencil and a paper and told me: "let's learn to draw first".


The only problem with this plan is that mineral/metallic matters do not quite behave like organic ones, so their "chemistry" is different.

Also, in this day and age it is more difficult to find someone who truly has zero experience in a lab. We all had to go through high-school chemistry, which has a lab section where the basic procedures are taught. My first experiences with reactions between substances were during high-school chemistry, so by the time I started engaging in alchemical & chymical research I was pretty well acquainted with the basic lab procedures. Of course, I have come a long way since those long gone days by my own accumulated experience. Now I could teach my chemistry teachers a thing or two that they totally ignored, and even denied and branded as "impossible". As Darth Vader would say: "When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master." My teachers would of course answer: "Only a master of chimeras, JDP."

**crucibles & retorts proceed to clash in mortal combat**; at the end of the brutal struggle my teachers' vanishing corpses leave only their lab-coats behind on the floor, topped by a bit of artificial gold produced from silver.

JDP:

I am aware that working with plants, working with human secretions and working with minerals are different things.

I have the opinion that working with plants first is an excellent idea.
Alchemy is a mix of knowledge and skill among other things...

I know some people have ZERO interest in the works with plants, but even for them it is better to begin with plants.

Of course, context is everything... if you have someone by your side used to work with metals and he is willing to teach how to work safely... then it's possible to go straight to the metals...

But if you are on your own... it's kinda crazy to do it that way.

I also think it's better to begin with something simple than trying to be Fulcanelli as your very first experience.

Of course, this is only a matter of opinions.

z0 K
01-18-2016, 04:37 PM
I often read the recommendation that aspiring Alchemists should start with plant work. Why is that? It seems like in historical times, most adepts started with the Great Work directly.

The practical laboratory work in the outer lab begins with the plant work. Nothing can be accomplished alchemically or philosophically in the outer lab by starting with the work on metals or vulgar minerals.

Adepts all start with the Great Work directly but that is not the work with metals. That is work in the inner laboratory. Hollandus is the most generous adept teacher. Still he is not easy to follow in the practical work in the outer lab. None of the old adepts discuss the Great Work openly because the church officials would terminate them.

Read Hollandus prologue to the Great Work: http://rexresearch.com/alchemy5/hollphst.htm

"Therefore, I recommend the great Work to you, for in it there is no failure, worry, work or vigil. Nor can it be spoiled, unless it be done deliberately. You need no foreign spirits, or conjuring, or a multitude of glasses, you only need one vessel and no more, one species of matter and no more, one oven and no more. That is why Geber says: Our Stone is one species, one thing. Therefore ignorant men cannot understand it. No foreign things that are not of its nature are added to our Stone. Ignorant men wish to bring it into its nature because they are unable to congeal this one thing. But when they do succeed in congealing it, they are right back to where they started from. Then it is nothing but earth that has lost its moisture. It cannot flow and it has no ingress. This is true because they stop when they should actually start (the work). Now, if they knew of what species this subject is and recognized its father and mother, sister and brother, arm in arm, mouth to mouth, they would die at once! If they would recognize and understand these things, they would obtain all their desires from the Art, and all their works would end happily.

"Dear Sons, I have revealed all this to you in clear words. Therefore, do not undertake anything with unknown operations before you have accomplished the Opus Magnum. Following that, start whatever you wish and do not spare any expense or time because you will have as much of both these as you want. I have mentioned the many accidents that may occur, and there are many others as well. But you should know that there exists an easy rule of which the Philosophers all speak of in a strange way, using parables and expounding it under veiled names, and yet, they are all referring to the great Work. Those who are able to perform the Great Work can also understand all the parables and the veiled words. In addition, you should understand and know about this work that the true Art is in al things, and it is true! You are to understand it as follows: Every determined thing contains its perfect medicine, though it is in an unprepared form. If you know how to prepare it, you neither need to buy or to have any other medicines. All this needs to be understood.

"No disease in the world can come upon a man because he has the perfect remedy within himself whereby he can completely recover. That is, providing he knows how to prepare it properly. He can obtain it from himself and prepare it so it will not harm his body. The same applies to all animals, birds, plants and anything created by God. It is indeed so, but ignorant men cannot understand what the old sages said and they think they can make a medicine from all things. That is why they take eggs, blood, urine and the like, believing that they can thereby bring into perfection, imperfect bodies. And when they have done, they are still at the start and remain immersed in their stupidity. "

The Great Work is internal done in the Microcosm: know thyself. The Spirit that moves all things moves us as well. Manifesting this living Spirit, fairy of the soul, in the outer lab is amazing, but if one has not made the connection with one's own Spirit that which is contained in the bottle will do you little to no good.

z0 K

Andro
01-19-2016, 12:33 PM
Hi z0 K,

A pleasure to see you back here!


The practical laboratory work in the outer lab begins with the plant work. Nothing can be accomplished alchemically or philosophically in the outer lab by starting with the work on metals or vulgar minerals.

Is this your personal view or something of wider acceptance, as well as referenced in other materials? Would you mind sharing your reasoning behind the above statement?


Holland is the most generous adept teacher. Still he is not easy to follow in the practical work in the outer lab.

I find Hollandus very cumbersome, especially as he mixes and complicates many things. In some passages he appears to be of a similar lineage as "Lully", etc, while in other passages he seems to be more of the 1/1/1 (One Matter, One Vessel, One Fire) school, letting the matter do all the work (almost) by itself in a closed flask... Then again, he does go quite a bit into corrosives in both his plant and metallic/mineral works...


"They take eggs, blood, urine and the like, believing that they can thereby bring into perfection, imperfect bodies. And when they have done, they are still at the start and remain immersed in their stupidity."

Interestingly, a whole treatise on Urine is also attributed to him... But the above quote can be a Philosophical blind, actually meaning that those substances are OK and only need to be worked further.


Adepts all start with the Great Work directly but that is not the work with metals. That is work in the inner laboratory.

Once more - is this your personal view or something of generally wider acceptance, as well as referenced (or hidden/hinted at) in other materials?

Thanks...

Michael Sternbach
01-19-2016, 04:25 PM
Great discussion, folks! :)

As the OP, I would like to outline my position on this topic so far:


I was doing chemical experiments using strong acids etc as a hobby already when I was a elementary school kid, so I have a certain confidence in my ability to handle tricky substances. When in doubt, I can also refer to some specialized literature and websites (such as this one).
As a practitioner of spagyric medicine, I am well familiar with and value plant remedies, but as I am quite happy with the ones that are commercially available, I don't see too much reason to make them myself.
Having said that, it might indeed be interesting to rework for instance Urbigerus' instructions, but I am not sure how much closer it would really bring me to my goal, beginning the Great Work for which minerals/metals are used, and which might take long enough even without delaying it by doing "similar" things first,
I do think that especially for working with quicksilver (as Lully & co seem to suggest), special precautions, such as using an exhaust hood, should be taken.

Andro
01-19-2016, 04:55 PM
It might indeed be interesting to rework for instance Urbigerus' instructions.

Just be careful not to fall into the same trap of many aspiring Alchemists (since Van Helmont until our times - Junius, etc..) who use/d common Spirit of Wine (ethanol) for the Circulatum Minus.

Urbigerus, for example, never once mentions alcohol, but "its own spirit" (which many have interpreted as ethanol and thus fell short on the more "miraculous" aspects :)).

Urbigerus even goes to the length of cautioning that if the desired results are not obtained, one may have erred in the Spirit...

Just in case you do wish to commence the Plant Work.

Michael Sternbach
01-19-2016, 05:50 PM
Just be careful not to fall into the same trap of many aspiring Alchemists (since Van Helmont until our times - Junius, etc..) who use/d common Spirit of Wine (ethanol) for the Circulatum Minus.

Urbigerus, for example, never once mentions alcohol, but "its own spirit" (which many have interpreted as ethanol and thus fell short on the more "miraculous" aspects :)).

Urbigerus even goes to the length of cautioning that if the desired results are not obtained, one may have erred in the Spirit...

Just in case you do wish to commence the Plant Work.

Thanks, Androgynus, I will keep that in mind but won't delve into it right now, as we would need to already open up a new thread again otherwise. ;)

z0 K
01-19-2016, 06:09 PM
Hi z0 K,

Is this your personal view or something of wider acceptance, as well as referenced in other materials? Would you mind sharing your reasoning behind the above statement?


It's not my personal view. The Book of St. Dunstan (Philosophia Maturata) and Ripley's Key of the Golden Gate are good references for outer laboratory strategy. I am sharing my reasoning as much as possible on a public forum.



I find Hollandus very cumbersome, especially as he mixes and complicates many things. In some passages he appears to be of a similar lineage as "Lully", etc, while in other passages he seems to be more of the 1/1/1 (One Matter, One Vessel, One Fire) school, letting the matter do all the work (almost) by itself in a closed flask... Then again, he does go quite a bit into corrosives in both his plant and metallic/mineral works...

You can sort that out with the strategy above. You have to experiment in your outer lab to see for yourself.


Interestingly, a whole treatise on Urine is also attributed to him... But the above quote can be a Philosophical blind, actually meaning that those substances are OK and only need to be worked further.


That quote is taken in reference to the Great Work in the inner laboratory and Hollandus is referring to the same spirit. If one does not know it or recognize it within how can one know it when it lies hidden in the elements without.


Once more - is this your personal view or something of generally wider acceptance, as well as referenced (or hidden/hinted at) in other materials?

It is my personal view of the results in my labs. We all have the same tools basically, but each artist has a unique style working in their labs. Some don't know what tools to use or when, others use only some tools and think that is all that is needed based on generally accepted learning. Hardly anyone knows what they are looking for. That is a result of following generally accepted learning.

So far I have connected a number of documents for consideration. In them is the secret of the adepts that it is not permitted for anyone to openly reveal: the Primary Matter of the adepts. It is not prohibited by oaths that can be broken. It is not permitted because of the reasons Hollandus mentioned in the quote. The revelation of the secret spirit has to come to the artist from innerstanding. I cannot give that to anyone.

You're welcome.

z0 K

Michael Sternbach
01-19-2016, 07:10 PM
z0 K,

I tend to think that the Inner and Outer Work unravel in sync with one another, not necessarily that one precedes the other.

zoas23
01-19-2016, 07:35 PM
Just be careful not to fall into the same trap of many aspiring Alchemists (since Van Helmont until our times - Junius, etc..) who use/d common Spirit of Wine (ethanol) for the Circulatum Minus.

Urbigerus, for example, never once mentions alcohol, but "its own spirit" (which many have interpreted as ethanol and thus fell short on the more "miraculous" aspects :)).

Any hints about how to find which one is this Spirit?

Andro
01-19-2016, 07:35 PM
In line with "Where to Begin":

Quoth Ali Puli (Centrum Naturae Concentratum):

"I say to you, my students in the study of nature, if you do not find the thing for which you are seeking, in your own self, much less will you find it outside yourself. Understand the glorious strength resident in your own selves. Why trouble to inquire from another? In man named after God, there are things more glorious than to be found anywhere else in the world."

"Should anyone desire to become a master, he will not find a better material for his achievement anywhere than in himself. Oh, man know thyself. In you resides the treasure of all treasures. Unknowingly this is the great wonder of the world. It is in reality a burning water, a liquid fire, more potent than all fire. In its crude state, it dissolves and absorbs solid gold. It reduces it into a fatty black grey earth, and a thick slimy salt water, without fire or acid, and without any violent reaction, which no other thing in the world can accomplish. Nothing is excluded from it, and though it is the most costly thing in the world, a king cannot possess more of it than a beggar, the wise men of old sought for it and found it."

"Seek for it, my friends, in every way and in everything, though maybe you do not know the hidden source of its origin; and even if you should come to find it, yet you would not have any idea of the aspect of things to be seen within it. Yet I will be explicit; it is a spiritual water, a true spirit, the spirit of life itself. Surely I may be justified in proclaiming: O, water, magnificent, illuminating, sweet; O, bitter and obscure, which strengthens us until the day of our death. This is the foundation stone in truth, which is rejected by the careless ignorance of the builders, and the alchemists even to this day."

Peter Barnes
03-03-2016, 12:17 AM
Androgynus, where do you get these cool books? I don't understand what this water may be, first I thought it could be something spiritual but then it says it absorbs solid gold and then the spirit of life itself, I have a headache and heartache cause I don't know, how does one know or find out?

Archangel
03-03-2016, 01:04 AM
Androgynus, where do you get these cool books? I don't understand what this water may be, first I thought it could be something spiritual but then it says it absorbs solid gold and then the spirit of life itself, I have a headache and heartache cause I don't know, how does one know or find out?

I am with you Peter. I'd like to know as well. Where is this water? The spirit of life itself? The key to regenerating the body, mind and soul? It must be The Holy Spirit, but I feel there are other substances out there, that we can find, and learn how to work with, and so come to some kind of understanding.

Andro
03-03-2016, 10:15 AM
Androgynus, where do you get these cool books?

This one in particular I photocopied from an Alchemist friend when I visited him in Australia. You may also find it online, at high prices (only a limited number of copies were printed).

Ali Puli is mentioned in other texts as well, such as 'Chemical Moonshine'.

Salazius
03-03-2016, 10:49 AM
Just to mention that it is now available in French at Shesheta publications.

I quite agree with him when he says that you need to find, first, in yourself what you seek in the outer world.

Paracelsus quite said the same thing : "none can transmute if he is not transmutesd himself". (or alike)


I've began with metallic works, with hard Alchemy at first. But I worked only later on plants.

Plants are smooth, rewarding, and pleasing to work with. No real surprises and no real dangers. It is true that beginning with plant works can give you a good knack for the further operations. You learn how to distill water, SV, acetum ... making angel water, tartarise, extract, distill, calcine, crystallise ...

Then you can work on the caputs : red wine first, then vinegar. Here, the student is confronted to his own caput and the richness that there is in it. But also, the deep negative energy that it emanates. Complexity of chaos ... full potential.

Then you can work with urine and metals together for example. It is a bit more complex, but full of teachings. You'll learn that metals also are composed of a "fatty" part.

zoas23
03-03-2016, 11:04 AM
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A26665.0001.001?rgn=main;view=fulltext ;)

Peter Barnes
03-03-2016, 09:59 PM
Zoas23 - Thankyou that was very kind of you.
Salazius -So you are saying that unless I transmute myself there is little chance in transmuting in outer alchemy (lab work), that's interesting but what if it takes a lifetime to do that before you can start making the elixir, well I suppose if one finds the elixir in oneself then there is no need to attempt labwork anyway. So I need to find in myself what I want in the outside world, okay I would like to make the Elixir of life/Immortality now how do I find this within myself?
Androgynus - Thankyou for that.
Archangel - When I read the spirit of life itself I immediately thought semen, well that is where life comes from along with the ovum, unless you go back further and the thought or sexual desire itself. Here's a funny story about an adult education student not knowing what evolution is, the teacher talks about the theory of evolution is where we come from, and so the student says 'he comes from Italy, she comes from France', the teacher says 'no no, how did life begin?' the student says 'oh life begin when man and lady make love', 'yes' says the teacher 'but what happened before that' the student says 'they turned the light out?' :)
Sorry, I know its kind of off topic. Unless God or the SM is the spirit of life itself?

zoas23
03-11-2016, 07:00 AM
Zoas23 - Thankyou that was very kind of you.

Thank you! I simply used google to find the text mentioned by Andro, because he often has some understanding of what he's talking about. ;)
(A way to avoid saying that he's a damn genius).

I didn't like very much the format they gave it there, which made a fluid reading quite difficult, specially because a lot of wor|ds were div|ided by thi|s strange symbol: "|"...

So I created a .pdf for me without that problem, I also deleted the page numbers because they are useful for a canonical quoting, but I don't really have the intention of using the text that way.

You can download my "cleaned" .pdf if you want... it's the same thing, just a better format:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=23662625724269699501

The online library of this university has a nice collection:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/ww2-idx?page=wwfull&realm=full+text&c=eebo&cc=eebo&initialq1=alchemy&enter=Show+Word+Index

(though it has some problems... a lot of texts have signs that say "non-English letters" when there's an expression in a foreign alphabet... and the texts with illustrations have a description of the illustration rather than the illustration itself, like "Illustration: a man with wings holding a cup with a serpent and a dove"... but it's a nice source of hard to find texts, even if it has these problems.... it takes a while to arrive to the page that says "view full text" once you have selected a book, but with some patience you'll find the page instead of arriving to the less convenient index of each page of each book and having to press "next" to see each new page).

Peter Barnes
03-25-2016, 10:57 PM
Wow, thanks again! I just downloaded your cleaned up version, thank you very much again for that;) I'll check out the site and the alchemy texts.

Salazius
03-26-2016, 10:38 AM
Salazius - So you are saying that unless I transmute myself there is little chance in transmuting in outer alchemy (lab work), that's interesting but what if it takes a lifetime to do that before you can start making the elixir, well I suppose if one finds the elixir in oneself then there is no need to attempt labwork anyway. So I need to find in myself what I want in the outside world, okay I would like to make the Elixir of life/Immortality now how do I find this within myself?

What I have discovered is that it needs to be alive in yourself first, in order to be externalized.
You can reach this state suddenly or gradually.

Undersand that finding the energy in yourself do not mean that you don't have to make it "for real" out of yourself. It is a different thing between a found potential, and an expressed potential that is a validation of your inside state of energy.

To find the Elixir of Life you need to understand Life at first. Then fradually you'll reach its energetical state and then you'll be able to be at its level, then to reach it. It's like something high on a shelve. When you are not tall enough, even if you see it, you cannot reach it.

z0 K
03-26-2016, 06:04 PM
I am with you Peter. I'd like to know as well. Where is this water? The spirit of life itself? The key to regenerating the body, mind and soul? It must be The Holy Spirit, but I feel there are other substances out there, that we can find, and learn how to work with, and so come to some kind of understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQwQyY8y8o&feature=youtu.be

The Alchemical Universe consists of one thing only: the Lion Soul growing the Dragon Spirit. The whole of the Great Work is to awaken the Dragon and capture the Spirit so the Lion can grow. We are each a Lion that devours the Spirit to live. First we devour the Spirit our mothers gave us in the womb. Then we devour the Spirit in our mother’s milk until we learn to devour other things to get the Spirit to live. When the food we eat is full of Spirit we gain energy, grow and evolve personally and collectively.

We have many ways to discern the Spirit in our food choices. Mostly we go with what appeals to us as appetizing. That is really a personal feeling and reflects the wild variety of foods available in our world. Lifestyles are fashioned around food choices. It can be very spiritual to some. Argent Vive is what we are seeking when we devour food. Living Silver is what flows in your Inner Circulation when the Spirit is consumed.

There is not a lot of Spirit available to us in the foods we eat. Some have more than others and preparation of components can make a big difference in keeping the Spirit from escaping the food. We know when the Spirit of a food item is dissipating by the changes in its appearance. Vegetables wilt when their elemental water evaporates. Meats dry out. Some of the Spirit is lost leaving with the water and we can tell by the taste and smell.

More Spirit is lost from the food product when the item rots. The Spirit is being devoured by microorganisms so they can circulate Argent Vive. In the process they produce feces. We all do. If we don’t eliminate them the circulation of Argent Vive will slow and disease will manifest. Eventually we cannot eliminate the subtle feces that clog our physical circulations. Because of this our energy slows and we age.

Some age better than others. Frier Bacon the alchemist described the process in great detail:

Of Retarding the Accidents of Old Age, and Prolongation of Life.

The furthest attainment, which the complement of Art, joyned with the whole Energy of Nature can reach unto, is the Prolongation of Life to a very old date. How farre this is attainable, manifold experience has shewed us. Pliny reports, That Pellio, a man of strong body and mind, lived much longer then men usually now, of whom OEtavius Augustus enquiring, What course he took to live so long? Was answered aenigmatically, he used Oyl without, and Mulsum within (now according to the opinion of some, it’s eight parts of water, and nine of honey) I might produce many examples of the same quality: as that which fell out in the days of King William; A Countreyman plowing in the field, found a golden vessel, containing a certain liquor, which he supposing to be the Dew of Heaven, washed his face withal, and drunk of it, whereby he became renued in spirit, body and excellence, from a Plow-man he was made a Porter to the King of Sicily. And the Popes Letters assures us, That Almannus, held Prisoner by the Saracens, through the use of a Medicine lived five hundred years. For the King, whose Captive he was, having received the Medicine from the Embassadours of the great King, and being suspitious of them, made trial hereof upon his Captive, which was brought him for that purpose. And the Lady of the Woods in great Britanny searching for a white Hind, found an Olinment, wherewith the Keeper of the Woods anointed his whole body, except the soals of his feet, and he lived three hudred years without any corruption, save in the soals of his feet, which had some passions. We ourselves know it frequent in these days, That plain Countrey men without the advantage so much as of a Physicians advice, live very healthfully an hundred years, or little less. And these are rather confirmed by the operations of Animals, as Harts, Eagles, Serpents, and many others, who by the efficacy of heart or stones, have renewed their youth: And wise men seeing that even bruits could reach so farre to their Prolongation, adjudging it no less feasible by reasonable men, set themselves on the Spurre to find out this secret. Hereupon Artefius from his own ingenuity, having found the Secrets of Stones, Herbs, Sensibles , & c. both for the knowledge of Nature, and especially the Prolongation of Life, did rejoice, that he had lived 1025 yeares. Further, to confirme this Assertion of the Prolongation of Life, it’s considerable, that man naturally is immortal, that is to say, has the possibility of not dying. Yea, even after his fall, he might live a thousand years, though by degrees the length of life was abbreviated. Hence it follows, That this abbreviation is Accidental, and consequentially may be repaired in whole or in part; and upon search we shall find the accidental cause of the corruption, is not from the Heavens, or any other than the defect of true Government of our health. In that our Fathers are corrupt and imbecile, they beget sonnes of a corrupt complexion and composition, and their children upon the same score are corrupted. Thus the Pedigree of corruption is deprived from Fathers to sonnes, until we settle upon our heirs an assured abbreviation of our dayes. Yet this doth not conclude, That to perpetuity there shall succeed an abbreviation of our life, since there is a positive period set to our life, men may live till they be eighty years, though then their dayes be but labor and sorrow.

Now if every man would from the brest exercise a compleat Regiment of heath (which consists in such things as have relation to Meat, Drink, Sleep, Waking, Motion, Rest, Evacuation, Retention, Air, and the Passions of the mind) He might find a remedy resisting his proper malady. For upon the prosecution of such a Regiment, one might arrive at the uttermost limit of that Nature he had from his Parents will permit, and be led to the very last period of Nature (I mean Nature fallen from its original uprightness) beyond which there is no further progress; because it doth little or nothing availe against the corruption of our Ancestours: and yet the fore-mentioned things, as the Regiment of health exacts, wherefore abbreviation of our dayes does not only from our Progenitors, but hath its advantages from the want of Regiment. However the Art of Physick sufficiently determines this. Although nor rich, or poor, wise or ignorant, no nor the most accurate Physicians themselves, do accomplish this Regiment in themselves or others, as every eye can descern. Yet Nature is not deficient in Necessaries or Art any wayes incompleat, but rather is advantagious to make insurrections and irruptions against, and so farre into these accidental passions, as they are either whole or in part rooted out. At first, and in the beginning of our ages declining, the remedy was easie: But since we have five thousand years or more disadavantage, the Cure is more craggy.

But waving the Inconveniences wise men moved by the considerations formentioned, have endeavoured to find out the means and wayes, which not only are forceable against the defects of every mans proper Regiment, but also against the corruptions of our Parents; Not that hereby they can attain to the years of Adam or Artefius, by reason of the growing corruption, but our dayes may be augmented an hundred years or more, above the ordinary age of most men in these dayes. And though it be impossible absolutly to retard the accidents of old age, yet hereby they may mitigate them, so as life will happily be prorogued beyond the common account, yet alwayes within the ultimate circuit of Nature. There is a bounder of Nature, set in men since their Fall. There is a bounder of every particular man arising from the proper corruption of his Parents. Beyond both these bounders it’s impossible to passe; yet happily one may arrive beyond the latter: nor yet so farre to go beyond it, as that the wisest of men can ever reach the former. Athough there be a possibility and aptitude of Nature to proceed to that boundary our first Parents set them. Let no man think this strange, since this aptitude extends itself to immortality, as appears both before the fall, and shall be evidenced after the Resurrection.

Perhaps you may object, That neither Aristotle, Plato, or Hippocrates, or Galen ever attained that prolongation. I shall answer, They have not attained the knowledge of many ordinary truths, which other ingenious heads have found out; and if so, they may easily miscarry in a business of such weighty consequence, though they made it their study: especially, if we consider, how they were burdened with other impertinences, and so were sooner brought to their gray haires, spending the inch of their Candles in more debased and vulgar subjects, than in finding out the wayes to so great Secrets.

[Frier Bacon His Discovery of the Miracles of Art, Nature, and Magick; Faithfully translated out of Dr. Dees own Copy, by T.M. and never before in English; London, 1659]

Michael Sternbach
04-25-2016, 08:16 PM
On this thread, it has been recommended to me to read Hollandus (rather than the similar, but more obscure Lull that I was interested in most), in order to gain an understanding of the Great Work. I have German translations of several Hollandus texts at hand. Which one should I begin with?

I am not so interested in committing myself to lab work with plants. I am already familiar with that kind of Alchemy insofar I am a practitioner of Spagyric medicine, but I am quite satisfied with the commercially available remedies. Also, I was doing lots of chemical experiments already when I was a child, so I'm quite familiar with basic laboratory equipment and operations. Therefore, practical mineral Alchemy has the stronger appeal for me.

I appreciate any hints. :)

Michael

Michael Sternbach
04-28-2016, 04:56 PM
Is there nobody wishing to talk about Hollandus with me? :confused:

Andro
04-28-2016, 06:25 PM
Is there nobody wishing to talk about Hollandus with me? :confused:

I find Hollandus way too cumbersome for my taste :eek:...

However, the greatest pearl from Hollandus (IMO - and sorry, I don't recall the exact source treatise) is in the following 2 paragraphs:

Another example: Take the corpse of an evildoer, who lies on the rack or hangs on the gallows. The air and the sun consume its stench and decay, so that nothing remains but white ashes. In time the hard legs, which were full of fat and marrow, are thus consumed, so that they turn into white, fine salt, which is intangible between the fingers. This is brought about by nature, as we may see every day with our own eyes. Where, then remains the stinking matter? It passes away and turns into nothing, and the element earth is thus cleansed and white as snow, so that it becomes impalpable. Thus it is evident in our Art, one must not separate any elements, nor does one require any washing or purification.

That is has to be tested to ascertain that it is good and penetrating I have related to you so that you should understand that the separation of elements is not necessary in our work. Neither is rectification, because the feces consume themselves, as indicated: but in the separation of the elements, a little is always lost in the fire, for they stand in the fire. And just as it easily loses something, so it is to the detriment of the work, which you need not be afraid of in this instance, because in the Great Work no element is separated.

Illen A. Cluf
04-28-2016, 08:23 PM
However, the greatest pearl from Hollandus (IMO - and sorry, I don't recall the exact source treatise) is in the following 2 paragraphs:

Here's the source:
http://rexresearch.com/alchemy5/hollphst.htm

z0 K
06-27-2016, 07:46 PM
On this thread, it has been recommended to me to read Hollandus (rather than the similar, but more obscure Lull that I was interested in most), in order to gain an understanding of the Great Work. I have German translations of several Hollandus texts at hand. Which one should I begin with?

I am not so interested in committing myself to lab work with plants. I am already familiar with that kind of Alchemy insofar I am a practitioner of Spagyric medicine, but I am quite satisfied with the commercially available remedies. Also, I was doing lots of chemical experiments already when I was a child, so I'm quite familiar with basic laboratory equipment and operations. Therefore, practical mineral Alchemy has the stronger appeal for me.

I appreciate any hints. :)

Michael

Alchemy plant work is Essential. Alchemy in the lab is not Spagyria in the lab. You will never make any progress with the Great Elixir of metals unless you understand the Stone plant work of alchemy not spagyria.

How would you go about doing practical mineral alchemy?

Hint:-)You'll need a philosophical menstrum. You'll need Spirit of Philosophical wine to begin that. That will take about a year to make. If you don't want to do Hollandus work you can try The Quintessence of Wine made Philosophick in Aurora Chymica by Edwardo Bolnest

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 05:08 AM
Alchemy plant work is Essential. Alchemy in the lab is not Spagyria in the lab. You will never make any progress with the Great Elixir of metals unless you understand the Stone plant work of alchemy not spagyria.

How would you go about doing practical mineral alchemy?

Hint:-)You'll need a philosophical menstrum. You'll need Spirit of Philosophical wine to begin that. That will take about a year to make. If you don't want to do Hollandus work you can try The Quintessence of Wine made Philosophick in Aurora Chymica by Edwardo Bolnest

This seems to be an erroneus opinion ie you need to work plants etc before you switch to metal, plant work is 'determined' while a true alchemist starts with undetermined and ends with undetermined. Alchemy is the easiest of all of these compared to the work of plants and more rewarding.

Anyone can jump directly without wasting their time on plants etc.

Andro
06-28-2016, 05:32 AM
This seems to be an erroneous opinion i.e. you need to work plants etc before you switch to metal, plant work is 'determined' while a true alchemist starts with undetermined and ends with undetermined. Alchemy is the easiest of all of these compared to the work of plants and more rewarding.

Anyone can jump directly without wasting their time on plants etc.

Hi Dwellings,

While I personally agree that one doesn't HAVE to go through plant or mineral work, it can still be very helpful to start with the those Kingdoms to understand the UNIVERSAL TEMPLATE and Modus Operandi.

All Bodies and Souls are animated by the EXACTLY same Spirit and they all, to various degrees, 'behave' according to the Universal Template of the Universal/Undetermined.

Just as an example, each and every determined Salt, with NO exception, when worked on alchemically, will 'act' according and in a way that approaches the Universal Template of the CENTRAL SALT.

Moreover, in many (not all) cases, alchemist often start with matters from one or more of the Kingdoms, proceeding to rectify the corruption and/or remove (or transmute) the superfluities, in order to reach the 'undetermined'/Universal state.

Andro
06-28-2016, 05:53 AM
There is a bounder of Nature, set in men since their Fall. There is a bounder of every particular man arising from the proper corruption of his Parents. Beyond both these bounders it’s impossible to passe; yet happily one may arrive beyond the latter: nor yet so farre to go beyond it, as that the wisest of men can ever reach the former. Athough there be a possibility and aptitude of Nature to proceed to that boundary our first Parents set them. Let no man think this strange, since this aptitude extends itself to immortality, as appears both before the fall, and shall be evidenced after the Resurrection.

Both the 'fallen' nature and the parentally inherited corruption can be transmuted/transcended - alchemical death and resurrection while still in this life (according to Gnostic teachings), or close to physical death, before or after (proper 'Bardo' navigation, particularly in Tibetan Dzogchen).

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 06:12 AM
Hi Dwellings,

While I personally agree that one doesn't HAVE to go through plant or mineral work, it can still be very helpful to start with the those Kingdoms to understand the UNIVERSAL TEMPLATE and Modus Operandi.

All Bodies and Souls are animated by the EXACTLY same Spirit and they all, to various degrees, 'behave' according to the Universal Template of the Universal/Undetermined.

Just as an example, each and every determined Salt, with NO exception, when worked on alchemically, will 'act' according and in a way that approaches the Universal Template of the CENTRAL SALT.

Moreover, in many (not all) cases, alchemist often start with matters from one or more of the Kingdoms, proceeding to rectify the corruption and/or remove (or transmute) the superfluities, in order to reach the 'undetermined'/Universal state.

How can you work on a salt alchemically? That is IMO archemy or spagyrics.

Each thing has only enough 'magnetic' ability that will allow it to sustain itself, no more, no less. How do you improve its 'magnetic' ability. solve and coagulate?

Can you name an alchemist who started from such a kingdom and suceeded in acquiring the stone?

Andro
06-28-2016, 07:05 AM
How can you work on a salt alchemically?

With an Alchemical (not spagyrical) Menstruum/Alkahest.

Besides, I have CLEARLY stated that this can be helpful for UNDERSTANDING the Universal Template. A learning curve, of sorts.

Take ANY common salt/body, plant or mineral, and subject it to the action of a genuine (SM carrying) Alchemical Menstruum/Alkahest and see what happens. When you do, let us all know the results here, please.

Axismundi000
06-28-2016, 07:39 AM
I will work on this non-Spagyric plant Alchemy this Autumn specifically: Hollandus opera vegetabilia. If I achieve any results worth showing I will put them on the forum. Obviously it will take time before any results are achieved with the process.

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 09:53 AM
Take ANY common salt/body, plant or mineral, and subject it to the action of a genuine (SM carrying) Alchemical Menstruum/Alkahest and see what happens. When you do, let us all know the results here, please.

Beside the Alkahest fixed by Magnet, is there any mestruum that you can name since everything carry SM.

I am clueless regarding the menstruum(s) that you are talking of, an elaboration of the same or pointing to specific threads would be nice.

z0 K
06-28-2016, 02:16 PM
I will work on this non-Spagyric plant Alchemy this Autumn specifically: Hollandus opera vegetabilia. If I achieve any results worth showing I will put them on the forum. Obviously it will take time before any results are achieved with the process.

Great! Someone willing to to the work in the lab. If you have any questions about it send me a private message. Hollandus has procedures for two plant stones that are different from each other. Both are exceptional.

Axismundi000
06-28-2016, 02:32 PM
I will certainly do that z0 K thank you for offering to help. This afternoon I was just looking at a few bits and pieces in my lab and thinking if I needed anything more for this.

I anticipate commencement in September.

Andro
06-28-2016, 02:33 PM
Beside the Alkahest fixed by Magnet, is there any menstruum that you can name since everything carry SM.

Not all Menstruums (or Alkahests) are 'made' alike... They vary in potency depending on the SM 'passenger' concentration.

Even when the originally "genderless" SM is rendered tangible (on the physical plane) in the most 'neutral' carrier and in a 'high concentration', it already has a body (Moon/Luna) and can therefore be regarded as 'Mercurial'/'Feminine', or 'Mercury Simplex', according to other nomenclatures. Even if this Body can appear as a 'Water', it is in fact a Salt Body which can be 'liquid' or 'flowing' at room temperature (one of the reasons it is often compared to Hg or confused with it).

When this Lunar/Mercurial Body acquires a Soul/Sulfur (traditionally associated with the 'Masculine' aspect), it is 'ensouled' and becomes a 'Double Mercury' or "Mercury Duplex' (Hermaphrodite). When Soul and Body (Sol & Luna or Sulfur & Mercury) are perfectly and inseparably united via Spirit and made into "One Thing", we have a "Philosophical Mercury" or "Alkahest". This can be either (allegedly) fixed by itself into a Stone (First Way of Urbigerus' Circulatum Majus, "Dragon" only), OR (Second Way of Urbigerus' Cirulatum Majus), using an additional Universal Philosophical Earth ("Dragon" & "Serpent"), which Second Way is described in most of the literature and also the way in which many high-level Achemists mainly work.

The Third Way (of Urbigerus) is using metallic Gold, in which I personally have zero interest.


I am clueless regarding the menstruum(s) that you are talking of, an elaboration of the same or pointing to specific threads would be nice.

I don't recall such threads on AF. If I find any, I'll link to them here.

But just as an example, the Circulatum Minus of Urbigerus (the Third Way), when taken ALL the way, results in such a "Menstruum". And in his First Way, he uses a highly Alchemical Alkahest (as described above), acting on a common Plant Salt. This Earth/Plant Salt is not 'Universal', so the result will be determined to the Plant Kingdom. Yet, the Plant Salt (potash) follows the Universal Template just the same, only to a 'lesser' degree.


--------------------------------------------------

z0 K
06-28-2016, 02:38 PM
This seems to be an erroneus opinion ie you need to work plants etc before you switch to metal, plant work is 'determined' while a true alchemist starts with undetermined and ends with undetermined. Alchemy is the easiest of all of these compared to the work of plants and more rewarding.

Anyone can jump directly without wasting their time on plants etc.

I'm glad you said it seems to be erroneous opinion. Perhaps you have some of your work you can share to substantiate your opinion that we start with undetermined and end with undetermined other than the obvious example of before birth and after death being undetermined.

Believing that plant work is a waste of time is most definitely an erroneous opinion. If you cannot make an alchemical plant stone you will never be able to make the Elixir of metals, because you do not know the source of the menstrum necessary, nor how to determine the Spirit in it.


Alchemy is the easiest of all of these compared to the work of plants and more rewarding.

Perhaps you can demonstrate the truth of that statement with evidence from your labs.

Andro
06-28-2016, 03:42 PM
Great! Someone willing to to the work in the lab.

In fact, quite a few people on this forum are actively engaged in lab work. Very few share it. Perhaps just a few images here and there.

It is my impression that the more 'advanced' one's work is, the less the public sharing. And this being an initiation-based craft, I can certainly understand.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is NO truly initiatory text that reveals the Keys to procuring/rendering/manifesting the Prime Universal Matter(s) - although various Universal Processes are documented in a few especially charitable texts, MINUS said Keys. Perhaps such initiatory texts are only available in super-secret private collections, inaccessible to the aspiring Alchemist, no matter how 'well connected' he or she may be. Or perhaps those Keys (if not discovered internally) are only transmitted orally, on a basis of certain "UN-bendable" criteria.


Believing that plant work is a waste of time is most definitely an erroneous opinion.

For the record, I spent a few years with Plant Work when I was just getting into Alchemy. I most definitely do NOT consider these years 'a waste of time'. I learned a lot from my many mistakes and I also learned a little 'trick' or two along the way. I haven't spent much effort in working with Minerals/Metals, except for a few 'Proof of Concept' experiments, which were inspired and actually taught to me by a Friend. It was amazing to see what a simple mineral matter can reveal with only a little special treatment.

Nowadays, however, my research is elsewhere directed: "Universality" combined with Simplicity & Elegance.

Still, I don't think we should underestimate the value of the Alchemical Learning Curve and the Journey it takes us on.


--------------------------------------------------

Andro
06-28-2016, 04:59 PM
Re: How to Begin

IMO, one of the very best public resources available online today is LabyrinthDesigners.org (https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/), which is mostly written by Iulia Millesima (https://www.labyrinthdesigners.org/an-alchemist-forma-mentis/) (not her real name).

Personally, I hold her perspectives in high regard. Her writings (encompassing many topics) could make navigating this thankless Alchemical Labyrinth just a bit easier...

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 05:07 PM
I'm glad you said it seems to be erroneous opinion. Perhaps you have some of your work you can share to substantiate your opinion that we start with undetermined and end with undetermined other than the obvious example of before birth and after death being undetermined.

Believing that plant work is a waste of time is most definitely an erroneous opinion. If you cannot make an alchemical plant stone you will never be able to make the Elixir of metals, because you do not know the source of the menstrum necessary, nor how to determine the Spirit in it.
Perhaps you can demonstrate the truth of that statement with evidence from your labs.

I was already aware of various aspects of prima before I stepped into Alchemy. Only a couple of months into Alchemy did I realize that the prima in this was also the same thing. This is the reason why I wrote like that.

This has lead me to a certain extent of pigeonholing myself.

The matter we start with is undetermined and the stone is also undetermined.

My country does not have any quantity of Dragon. So I have not started Lab work All is theory at this stage

Andro
06-28-2016, 05:46 PM
So I have not started Lab work. All is theory at this stage.

Your honesty does not go unappreciated. Lab work may either confirm or dismiss your theory.


My country does not have any quantity of Dragon.

So, according to this, NO ONE in your country has EVER completed the Great Work for lack of Dragon? (unless they imported it or traveled elsewhere?)

Is your Dragon on its way in the mail? Do you intend to travel to another country who has "IT"? Are you planning to commence lab work according to your theory?

IMO: Everything (or almost everything) you need for the Great Work is already "in your back yard", so to speak. Just IMO - no intention to discourage you in any way.


Where you stand, there dig deep! Below you lies the well!
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 06:04 PM
Your honesty does not go unappreciated.
Is honesty such a big deal in alchemical circles?


So, according to this, NO ONE in your country has EVER completed the Great Work for lack of Dragon? (unless they imported it or traveled elsewhere?)

We have a single source of Dragon that to a very low quality one, but the Dragon was causing insane amount of trouble to the Mining company, so they adopted Anti Dragon Measures, that is their actions I fear has ruined the ore bed. In all other mines it can be found only in trace quantities(<1%). After adopting the measures, their productivity has increased by 50% from a PR announcement.

Of the successful ones many completed the work with the Dragon from this region, many went to China, a few went to Arab.

Though most stopped at Internal Alchemy.


Is your Dragon on its way in the mail?

LOL, No.


Do you intend to travel to another country who has "IT"?

Yes, as a last resort, I will see if I can arrange some friends to help me though I am worried how I will approach them with this topic.


Are you planning to commence lab work according to your theory?

Absolutely, the moment Dragon reaches home.


IMO: Everything (or almost everything) you need for the Great Work is already "in your back yard", so to speak. Just IMO - no intention to discourage you in any way.

I don't understand this. Kindly elaborate.

..................................................

I have poured over Geological Surveys too and exhausted all hope of finding the Dragon.

Kiorionis
06-28-2016, 06:20 PM
Come to my country, it is quite prevalent in Dragon at the moment:

http://www.oronaut.com/wp-content/gallery/summer09/teton-photoshopping.jpg

Andro
06-28-2016, 06:22 PM
IMO: Everything (or almost everything) you need for the Great Work is already "in your back yard", so to speak. Just IMO - no intention to discourage you in any way.


I don't understand this. Kindly elaborate.

What I mean (IMO) that you don't have to travel far, import or pursue various matter-related logistics and complexities to commence the Great Work.

The "Dragon" (but apparently not the one you mean) is everywhere for the 'mining' or 'harvesting'.

Again, just IMO.

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 06:27 PM
Come to my country, it is quite prevalent in Dragon at the moment:

http://www.oronaut.com/wp-content/gallery/summer09/teton-photoshopping.jpg

Thanks for fixing the post, I guess you did it.

Yep, sure seems to have a good quantity from preliminary google searches.

Thanks for the invite.

z0 K
06-28-2016, 06:37 PM
In fact, quite a few people on this forum are actively engaged in lab work. Very few share it. Perhaps just a few images here and there.

It is my impression that the more 'advanced' one's work is, the less the public sharing. And this being an initiation-based craft, I can certainly understand.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is NO truly initiatory text that reveals the Keys to procuring/rendering/manifesting the Prime Universal Matter(s) - although various Universal Processes are documented in a few especially charitable texts, MINUS said Keys. Perhaps such initiatory texts are only available in super-secret private collections, inaccessible to the aspiring Alchemist, no matter how 'well connected' he or she may be. Or perhaps those Keys (if not discovered internally) are only transmitted orally, on a basis of certain "UN-bendable" criteria.



For the record, I spent a few years with Plant Work when I was just getting into Alchemy. I most definitely do NOT consider these years 'a waste of time'. I learned a lot from my many mistakes and I also learned a little 'trick' or two along the way. I haven't spent much effort in working with Minerals/Metals, except for a few 'Proof of Concept' experiments, which were inspired and actually taught to me by a Friend. It was amazing to see what a simple mineral matter can reveal with only a little special treatment.

Nowadays, however, my research is elsewhere directed: "Universality" combined with Simplicity & Elegance.

Still, I don't think we should underestimate the value of the Alchemical Learning Curve and the Journey it takes us on.


--------------------------------------------------

I believe that is one reason why debates prevail over discussion of experimental results. Debates can escalate into arguments unless discussion is grounded in some form of tangible produce for comparison if it is to be alchemy and not just sophistry. Sophisticated hypothesis and speculations need some form of experiment to elevate it to theory.

We easily become invested in our opinionated hypothesis. Having worked it out in detail in our heads we can be tempted to assume that the thinking is correct because our reason and logic proves it virtually in our minds. Then debates become arguments as we defend our ratiocinations.

As for “advanced work” being shared less in public that is true on a superficial level. No one will give out a detailed recipe for the Stone. The reason for that is not obvious until you make the Stone. No two operators will make the same exact Stone following the exact same recipe. That is why we call Alchemy an Art and the Operator an Artist.


Also, to the best of my knowledge, there is NO truly initiatory text that reveals the Keys to procuring/rendering/manifesting the Prime Universal Matter(s) - although various Universal Processes are documented in a few especially charitable texts, MINUS said Keys. Perhaps such initiatory texts are only available in super-secret private collections, inaccessible to the aspiring Alchemist, no matter how 'well connected' he or she may be. Or perhaps those Keys (if not discovered internally) are only transmitted orally, on a basis of certain "UN-bendable" criteria.

Hollandus and Ripley are quite charitable. Ripley actually reveals the template or unified field theory of Alchemy. In fact it was Ripley that revealed one facet of the starting material of lab operations that gave me my first successes in alchemy as opposed to spagrycs in the lab. Hollandus reveals incredible details about the laboratory operations that revolve around Ripley’s unified operative theory, but Hollandus makes a presentation that they are separate.

Hollandus does discuss the Great Work done in the Inner Lab that requires no tedious manipulations mandatory in the outer lab work with furnaces, retorts, flasks, etc. I quoted it from him in post #5 of this thread. The term Inner Lab is my own metaphor for the direct working of Spiritus Mundi fluxing my own existence. Ripley’s operative theory is sustained in the Inner Lab as well. We are all one thing that is two always together creating another. Ripley’s metaphor is the Dragon and the Lion. In the East it is the one thing, Yin and the Yang, always spinning creates Tao flowing.

Dwellings
06-28-2016, 07:59 PM
Hollandus and Ripley are quite charitable. Ripley actually reveals the template or unified field theory of Alchemy. In fact it was Ripley that revealed one facet of the starting material of lab operations that gave me my first successes in alchemy as opposed to spagrycs in the lab. Hollandus reveals incredible details about the laboratory operations that revolve around Ripley’s unified operative theory, but Hollandus makes a presentation that they are separate.

Hollandus does discuss the Great Work done in the Inner Lab that requires no tedious manipulations mandatory in the outer lab work with furnaces, retorts, flasks, etc. I quoted it from him in post #5 of this thread. The term Inner Lab is my own metaphor for the direct working of Spiritus Mundi fluxing my own existence. Ripley’s operative theory is sustained in the Inner Lab as well. We are all one thing that is two always together creating another. Ripley’s metaphor is the Dragon and the Lion. In the East it is the one thing, Yin and the Yang, always spinning creates Tao flowing.

No, Hollandus and Ripley both were talking of practical stuff, not Inner Man. Infact this inner man or by extension Inner Alchemy is a complete fraud.

Your awakening is automatic, you never work on it. Even if you strive for it, it will only come at the right time. In your case from your posts this moment has already passed or is close to passing,

What they really mean by Inner Man is that one must understand what one is, how he is related to God and Universe, what are his full prowess. Thats it, you understand and you move on to practical stuff.

Michael Sternbach
06-28-2016, 11:49 PM
Alchemy plant work is Essential. Alchemy in the lab is not Spagyria in the lab. You will never make any progress with the Great Elixir of metals unless you understand the Stone plant work of alchemy not spagyria.

How would you go about doing practical mineral alchemy?

Hint:-)You'll need a philosophical menstrum. You'll need Spirit of Philosophical wine to begin that. That will take about a year to make. If you don't want to do Hollandus work you can try The Quintessence of Wine made Philosophick in Aurora Chymica by Edwardo Bolnest

Thanks. I am currently making a survey of the different approaches to the Great Work. The one using the Spirit of Philosophical Wine particularly appeals to me. It seems possible to start this with substances that are readily available and fairly safe to work with. And both Ripley and Hollandus are widely respected as non-BS authors. I will look into Bolnest as well.

Michael Sternbach
06-28-2016, 11:53 PM
I will work on this non-Spagyric plant Alchemy this Autumn specifically: Hollandus opera vegetabilia. If I achieve any results worth showing I will put them on the forum. Obviously it will take time before any results are achieved with the process.

I am already looking forward to hearing of your results. :)

Michael Sternbach
06-29-2016, 12:06 AM
Hollandus and Ripley are quite charitable. Ripley actually reveals the template or unified field theory of Alchemy. In fact it was Ripley that revealed one facet of the starting material of lab operations that gave me my first successes in alchemy as opposed to spagrycs in the lab. Hollandus reveals incredible details about the laboratory operations that revolve around Ripley’s unified operative theory, but Hollandus makes a presentation that they are separate.

That's fascinating! Could you please provide the exact sources these statements are based on?


Hollandus does discuss the Great Work done in the Inner Lab that requires no tedious manipulations mandatory in the outer lab work with furnaces, retorts, flasks, etc. I quoted it from him in post #5 of this thread. The term Inner Lab is my own metaphor for the direct working of Spiritus Mundi fluxing my own existence. Ripley’s operative theory is sustained in the Inner Lab as well. We are all one thing that is two always together creating another. Ripley’s metaphor is the Dragon and the Lion. In the East it is the one thing, Yin and the Yang, always spinning creates Tao flowing.

Sometimes in the East (i.e. in martial arts), it's the Dragon and the Tiger. ;)

I also think that Internal and External Work should go hand in hand. And I have an Inner Lab since many years.

z0 K
06-29-2016, 04:24 PM
That's fascinating! Could you please provide the exact sources these statements are based on?



Sometimes in the East (i.e. in martial arts), it's the Dragon and the Tiger. ;)

I also think that Internal and External Work should go hand in hand. And I have an Inner Lab since many years.

Ripley’s Key of the Golden Gate:
The Key of the Golden Gate:
by G. Ripley.
As far of the translator.

Page 1

1 I have judged it expedient to admonish god, before
2 thou seekst(?) on the reading of the following tract, that it is as
3 yet a doubt, who is the true author of this book. I find
4 it attributed unto Ripley by many, under this title, the key
5 of the golden gate; & under this name I found it translated
6 out of English by Edward Kelley. But yet a great part thereof
7 viz. from you are chiefly to understand, & [ ] is another
8 exemplary name for that gate a different inscription, & as
9 followes, viz. a tract of the great mast. Dunstane arch
10 bishop of Canterbury, (a true philosoph) of the philosophers
11 stone; although in this both the beginning & the ending of the
12 book attributed to Ripley, be wanting. But yet there is
13 on both parts the same tone, & the same words excepting
14 a very few, changed in the key & all which things I gave
15 by some certain notes distinguished in this tract, that
16 so thou maist know, what is to be adscribed to this or that author.

Edward Kelley’s version is “An Exact Piece of Philosophy,” Philosophia Maturata:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A33604.0001.001/1:4?rgn=div1;view=fulltext
Material quoted by Arthur Dee in his Fasiculus Chymicus attributed to the book of Dunstan matched exactly to text in Philosophia Maturata. Edward Kelley transcribed it from the original document in John Dee’s library. The original was destroyed when the idiots burned Dee’s library.

11 B. From this place it begins otherwise in a manuscript
12 of a tract of the most great master Dunstan, Arch-
13 bishop of Canterbury a true philosopher, of the phi-
14 losophers stone, even to the following sign or mark.

15 E
16 But it is chiefest of all to be understood that the more ancient
17 philosophers did herein strine with all their powers, that
18 these things which are perfected by nature under the earth in
19 many years, may be made upon the earth as it were in a
20 most short space of time, viz gold & silver, most perfect &
21 most precious; In which the footsteps of nature were by them
22 imitated, choosing to themselves the most pure earths

Page 12

1 white & red, the which they called their gold & silver, con-
2 joyning them (even as nature doth in the bowels of the earth)
3 without any repugnancy, until at last they obtain fixation
4 & fusibility. My son it is altogether necessary that thou
5 accomplish this very thing, if thou would attain thy de-
6 sired end in this science; for gold & silver are nothing
7 else but a red & white earth, whereto nature hath coupled
8 throughout a pure subtile, white & red argent vive, & so
9 hath produced of them gold & silver: Now for thee that seekes
10 this science it is necessary that first of all you get those
11 earths, white & red, subtile, pure, fix, & in them two
12 mercuries, white in the white earth, & red in the red whithout
13 any division, & fix them throughout, that they may indure
14 any tryall by fire, & may at length attain a fusibility; that
15 (as we see a great quantity of water to be tinged with
16 a little saffron; so they may tinge abundantly (in the least
17 quantity of it) every metal, & may most perfectly & most
18 plenarily attract any metallick spirits that are not fix (so
19 that they be of the same kind & nature) to their quality
20 altogether. And with all that they may be infinitely multiply
21 in themselves & may free the bodies of men from the worst &
22 deadly deseases. The which properties verely, are not to
23 be found in common gold & silver without a great deal

Page 13

1 of labour & that but in part neither; because that the vegetative
2 virtue & mother of all increase is for the great part) long
3 ago extinct in them. My son if thou knowest but how to effect
4 this, & to imitate the condition of more inferiour nature
5 in frameing metals, thou mayst deservedly be named
6 a philosopher well experienced in natural things. But it is
7 to be considered that the more ancient philosophers did not use
8 common gold & silver in this work, & for that cause, said that
9 those labour needed not much costs, & mought as well be
10 accomplished by the poor & countryman, as by the rich man &
11 citizen; the which saying would be wholy untrue, if it could
12 not be finished without common gold & silver, for they are
13 very precious & rare, & not gotten by the poor without a
14 great deal of labour. Many indeed have reduced by this
15 art a great quantity of gold & silver into nothing & have
16 spent their time & labour exceedingly unprofitably to
17 the destruction both of body & soul & these (I judge) well de-
18 serving pity: Besides in these our times we seldom find
19 any (or none at all) seriously & truely searching after
20 the tinctures of the philosopheres, but most men do absurdly
21 & vainly labour & broil in common mercury & common gold
22 & silver, & therefore most few they are to whom this grace
23 happens, whereas contrarywise we have seen men who

Page 14

1 have boyled away all their estates. & therefore beware
2 for although gold & silver may be mixed & subtilized
3 tinctures, & so be brought into lesser elixirs & that with gain,
4 yet the true way (according to the intention of the philosophers)
5 is not in them for their gold & silver are two chief tinctures
6 red & white, buryed in one & the same body the which never by
7 nature, arrived unto their perfect complement or ripeness.
8 Yet are they separable from their earthy lubricity(*) or slimi-
9 ness & their accidental dross, in which they ly hid, & are so
10 commixtible according to their proper nature, with pure earth
11 of white & red, & are accounted such fit ferments
12 thereof that they cannot be at all sayd to want any other strange
13 thing. For the whole work is one, & the thing itself one,
14 & the whole hath its derivation from one image. For the parts
15 of our stone are in it, coëssential & concrete, the which would be
16 altogether absurd if there wanted common gold & silver to
17 the composition thereof. For the philosophers say take a body in which
18 is argent vive, pure, bright, unspotted, & uncompleated by nature.
19 & such a body (after its compleat & perfect mundification is
20 much more excellent than the body of gold & silver of the mine.
21 As concerning this body of the matter of this stone, there are
22 three things most chiefly spoken, & it is called, the green
23 lyon, asa foetida, & the white fume. But yet this is so con-
24 trived by the philosophers that they may deceive fooles, and that by

* lutosity

Page 15

1 reason of the multitude & diversities of the names they may be
2 blinded & mistaken. But see, that thou doest understand
3 & know that one thing is always & really signifyed although there
4 are three named & accidental for the green lyon, asa foetida
5 & the white fume, are denominated from one & the self same
6 subject, in the which they do altogether & always ly hid until
7 they are manifested by art. But by the green lyon we mean
8 & denote green multiplyable & spermatick gold, which is
9 as yet unfinished by nature, having power to reduce bodies
10 to their first matter, & making them fix, spiritual, & fugitive,
11 & is therefore deservedly called a lyon. For even as e-
12 very brute beast subjects itself to the lyon, so every
13 metallick body is overcome by the power of that our living mer-
14 cury. This is born together with a certain water which we call
15 argent & white mercury. Therefore this water white & red
16 supply us with two tinctures, white & red, the which we always call our
17 mercuries, & after due conjunction, decoction & digestion
18 we call them our stones white & red.
19 By asa foetida we mean that fetid odour, which exhales
20 out of the unclean body in the first distillation, the which is in
21 all respects likened unto stinking asa foetida, but with a kind
22 of sweetness, of which it is said, before its preparation, the
23 odour thereof is stincking, the which thing is most certain.

Page 16

1 But after that it shall be prepared after a due manner & be
2 circulated into a quintessence, that dignifyed matter of
3 philosophers. Abound with an unexpressable fragrancy & a
4 power of taking away the leprosy & other most grievous deseases
5 without the which viz this our living gold it is impossible to make
6 aurum potabile curative, the which the philosophers call the elixir
7 of life & of metals. Yet I do not deny but that the philosophers
8 can exceedingly well dissolve mineral gold & silver with thing
9 radicall of their own kind, & not as yet compleated by nature
10 in any wise, & so arrive to the ultimate term of this art.
11 But certainly this is too high for every bodies ingenuities
12 & besides it is a work agreeable to princes who abound with
13 gold & silver. But this way (of our) is used by & agreeable
14 to the philosophers, but chiefly for the poor whose estate is
15 but small.
16 The reason why it is called the white fume is this:
17 In the first distillation before the red tincture ascends, there
18 riseth a fume truely white, whereby the receiver becomes
19 thickened with a certain milky shadow & frequent humidity
20 (or store of moisture) on which account it is also called lac virginis.
21 Therefore wheresoever thou seest a substance adorned with
22 these three properties, know that that is the true matter of the
23 philosophers stone.

z0 K
06-29-2016, 06:22 PM
No, Hollandus and Ripley both were talking of practical stuff, not Inner Man. Infact this inner man or by extension Inner Alchemy is a complete fraud.



Of course that is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. You might consider revising the position stated in the quote above in light of further understanding practical lab work can provide.

Read the passage I provided in this thread quoting from Hollandus about the Great Work in post #5. He is not discussing practical lab stuff there. He is describing the Inner Circulation all humans have. Usually one is ignorant of it yet the Spirit circulates through us nonetheless. When you become aware of it you can manipulate it.


Your awakening is automatic, you never work on it. Even if you strive for it, it will only come at the right time. In your case from your posts this moment has already passed or is close to passing,

That statement is in accordance with Hollandus insight into the Great Work:

"Therefore, I recommend the great Work to you, for in it there is no failure, worry, work or vigil. Nor can it be spoiled, unless it be done deliberately. You need no foreign spirits, or conjuring, or a multitude of glasses, you only need one vessel and no more, one species of matter and no more, one oven and no more.”


What they really mean by Inner Man is that one must understand what one is, how he is related to God and Universe, what are his full prowess. Thats it, you understand and you move on to practical stuff.

The comment from you above indicates you do seem to understand the idea Hollandus was discussing. It is not that the moment of gnosis passes and you move on to practical stuff. It is now you understand operative theory and then see the Spirit in the bottle and can hunt it, concentrate it, move it from one element to another manifesting Philosophical matter substantiated by empirical evidence in the laboratory.

Andro
07-11-2016, 05:54 PM
A while ago I posted this:


When the originally "gender-less" SM is rendered tangible (on the physical plane) in the most 'neutral' carrier and in a 'high concentration', it already has a body (Moon/Luna) and can therefore be regarded as 'Mercurial'/'Feminine', or 'Mercury Simplex', according to other nomenclatures. Even if this Body can appear as a 'Water', it is in fact a Salt Body which can be 'liquid' or 'flowing' at room temperature (one of the reasons it is often compared to Hg or confused with it).

Today, synchronistically, I find this old post by True Initiate/"TAFKAP" (I recommend reading his entire post):


Here are few excerpts from Reusenstein:

[...]

Mercury is a salt, which has no sulfur.

That is why it achieves the sulfur of life.

Which connects with:


When this Lunar/Mercurial Body acquires a Soul/Sulfur (traditionally associated with the 'Masculine' aspect), it is 'ensouled' and becomes a 'Double Mercury' or "Mercury Duplex' (Hermaphrodite). When Soul and Body (Sol & Luna or Sulfur & Mercury) are perfectly and inseparably united via Spirit and made into "One Thing", we have a "Philosophical Mercury" or "Alkahest".

I hope this interesting connection may enhance inner-standing of some principles.