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View Full Version : The "old" equipment of R. Petrinus vs. the new equipment.



zoas23
02-03-2016, 02:45 PM
I was reading Petrinus after a friend with zero experience in alchemy told me that he had a 7 pages document by Petrinus (that someone had translated to Spanish) explaining the "dry path" to obtain gold.

I mostly laughed and told him that the document he had may have some hints (or not), but that he was going to end up dead... and that if he didn't even know how to make a simple vegetable salt, then it wasn't really a good idea to jump to the dry path with a 7 pages .doc...

Though such thing made me read the old book by him on Spagyrics.
The "strangest" thing in his book is his obsession with using the "old fashioned" equipment... which, of course, needs a puffer and is quite expensive because of how unusual it it nowadays.

One of the things that made me feel curious was his obsession with this device:

http://www.alchemylab.com/images/petrinus6.jpg

As opposed to using this similar device:

http://www.bimarloga.com.ar/site/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/14da86548a1097f10d65c787c2d17fab.gif

Or this one if you prefer a "closed" distillation head (is that how you call it in English?).

http://www.bimarloga.com.ar/site/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/89d87d1ce38b320a199bc4bdc6630147.gif

I wanted to ask you what you think about it... my only objection to the device that Petrinus suggests very vehemently is that it's quite expensive and I am not sure if it makes any kind of difference.

What's your opinion about it?
(the thread isn't strictly about Petrinus, but mostly about the differences between the "old fashioned" device vs. the "modern" device for distillation).

Has anyone tested both of them? Did you notice a HUGE difference?

JDP
02-03-2016, 03:00 PM
"Rubellus Petrinus" never has claimed success in making the Stone or achieving any other kind of transmutations. He is simply an "aficionado" of the subject. So the conclusion of your friend that he is instructing others in how to "obtain gold" are quite off the mark. Rubellus is a nice fellow and offers help to others in whatever he can based on his own experience and his theories. But he is not an "adept" or anything of the sort, and he never has claimed to be one.

As for his insistence on old-fashioned apparatuses: no, it is not necessary, except in a few cases where the old apparatuses indeed have advantage over the new ones. For example, you can't carry out high temperature distillations or sublimations in modern glass flasks simply because the glass starts deforming or melting at such high heats. For such purposes the old ceramic apparatuses were better suited.

zoas23
02-03-2016, 03:16 PM
The paper that my friend has is certainly worthless... and it had more problems that Nav's ozone water (I mean in the description of the process... a lot of missing information).
That's why I brought him back to the "real world" whilst he was planning to spend a fortune in something that would end up giving him simply a mix of antimony and other substances and probably nothing else.

I am currently helping him to make his first vegetable salt... and I told him to "take it easy".

Whilst reading his book on Spagyrics I became curious about his (obsession with) old fashioned glassware... trying to find its advantages, but I didn't really find any advantage except the "glamour" of the old fashioned equipments (which are lovely... but I did not know if they make sense when you make a balance between the "benefits" and the "cost" of it).

-I.e, a modern distillation head would cost here some $90 or $100... whilst a distillation head following the plans by Petrinus would probably cost something between $500 to $ 700 (I have my own puffer and I am more or less able to calculate the costs of a product without even asking him after having asked him some 20 times to create things for me).

JDP
02-03-2016, 03:24 PM
The paper that my friend has is certainly worthless... and it had more problems that Nav's ozone water (I mean in the description of the process... a lot of missing information).
That's why I brought him back to the "real world" whilst he was planning to spend a fortune in something that would end up giving him simply a mix of antimony and other substances and probably nothing else.

I am currently helping him to make his first vegetable salt... and I told him to "take it easy".

Whilst reading his book on Spagyrics I because curious about his old fashioned glassware... trying to find its advantages, but I didn't really find any advantage except the "glamour" of the old fashioned equipments (which are lovely... but I did not know if they make sense when you make a balance between the "benefits" and the "cost" of it).

-I.e, a modern distillation head would cost here some $90 or $100... whilst a distillation head following the plans by Petrinus would probably cost something between $500 to $ 700 (I have my own puffer and I am more or less able to calculate the costs of a product without even asking him after having asked him some 20 times to create things for me).

One advantage in using custom made old-fashioned apparatuses like those of Rubellus is that they are larger than the usual ones used today by most labs. If you are going to carry out experiments on a larger scale then that type of apparatuses would be more suitable than the standard glass pieces offered by the labware manufacturers of today.

zoas23
02-03-2016, 10:15 PM
Yes, I was surprised by his "quantities" when I was reading Petrinus...

He certainly works in a big scale...

i.e, 6 liters flasks.... and the distillation "head" of the apparatus I've posted, it has 2 liters of capacity.... whilst for making a spiritus vini he suggests using 50 liters of wine (I always used some 20 liters).

In most cases he suggests using quantities which are HUGE for what I am used to.

P.S, and I am not sure if it's a translation mistake or what, but the strangest thing in my book is seeing the absolutely random size of the glass joints he suggests to use (I assume that most of use stick to one or two sizes... i.e, I use 24/40 and 29/42... mostly because they are the most "popular" sizes here in my country... but his book suggests a diversity of joint sizes that is hard to justify).

Other strange things I've found is that in his re-construction of the dry path of Fulcanelli he insists with the idea of asking a blacksmith to create this specific crucible in stainless steel:

http://www.tpissarro.com/alquimia/crucible.jpg

... when anyone can buy a stainless steel crucible at most shops that sell lab supplies... I never saw one that looks like the stainless steel version of the holy grail... but I assume that any "normal" stainless steel crucible with thick walls will "do the trick" (and it will be for sure cheaper to get a product produced in a factory than asking a blacksmith to create this "holy grail" crucible).

I'm somehow lost with some of his obsessions, but I have nothing against him (I somehow like eccentric persons, so I don't dislike his oddities, but I would not follow most of them).

JDP
02-04-2016, 02:56 PM
Yes, I was surprised by his "quantities" when I was reading Petrinus...

He certainly works in a big scale...

i.e, 6 liters flasks.... and the distillation "head" of the apparatus I've posted, it has 2 liters of capacity.... whilst for making a spiritus vini he suggests using 50 liters of wine (I always used some 20 liters).

In most cases he suggests using quantities which are HUGE for what I am used to.

P.S, and I am not sure if it's a translation mistake or what, but the strangest thing in my book is seeing the absolutely random size of the glass joints he suggests to use (I assume that most of use stick to one or two sizes... i.e, I use 24/40 and 29/42... mostly because they are the most "popular" sizes here in my country... but his book suggests a diversity of joint sizes that is hard to justify).

Other strange things I've found is that in his re-construction of the dry path of Fulcanelli he insists with the idea of asking a blacksmith to create this specific crucible in stainless steel:

http://www.tpissarro.com/alquimia/crucible.jpg

... when anyone can buy a stainless steel crucible at most shops that sell lab supplies... I never saw one that looks like the stainless steel version of the holy grail... but I assume that any "normal" stainless steel crucible with thick walls will "do the trick" (and it will be for sure cheaper to get a product produced in a factory than asking a blacksmith to create this "holy grail" crucible).

I'm somehow lost with some of his obsessions, but I have nothing against him (I somehow like eccentric persons, so I don't dislike his oddities, but I would not follow most of them).

The steel piece is actually a conical mold, this was a much used piece to cast metals in, specially regulus of antimony.

Hellin Hermetist
02-04-2016, 05:35 PM
"Rubellus Petrinus" never has claimed success in making the Stone or achieving any other kind of transmutations. He is simply an "aficionado" of the subject. So the conclusion of your friend that he is instructing others in how to "obtain gold" are quite off the mark. Rubellus is a nice fellow and offers help to others in whatever he can based on his own experience and his theories. But he is not an "adept" or anything of the sort, and he never has claimed to be one.

As for his insistence on old-fashioned apparatuses: no, it is not necessary, except in a few cases where the old apparatuses indeed have advantage over the new ones. For example, you can't carry out high temperature distillations or sublimations in modern glass flasks simply because the glass starts deforming or melting at such high heats. For such purposes the old ceramic apparatuses were better suited.

Hi. What type of equipment do you use to perform sublimations? Also, have you ever tried fused quatz glass for high temp experiments? Is it trustworthy?

JDP
02-04-2016, 06:26 PM
Hi. What type of equipment do you use to perform sublimations?

Usually glass flasks or bottles with long glass condensers attached to their mouths/necks. I have also used long glass chimneys as condensers, like this one:

http://www.antiquelampsupply.com/images/products/lg/57957Color_alt_0.jpg



Also, have you ever tried fused quatz glass for high temp experiments? Is it trustworthy?

No, never used it, too expensive! For high temperatures I use ceramics.