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Awani
03-02-2016, 04:01 PM
"Now this whole cosmos, which is a great God and an image of he who is greater and is united with him and maintains its order in accordance with that will, is one mass of life and there is not anything in the cosmos, nor has been through all time, from the first foundation of the universe, neither in the whole, nor among the several things contained within it that is not alive. There is not, and has never been, and never will be in the cosmos, anything that is dead. For it was the father's will that the cosmos, as long as it exists, should be a living being and therefore it must needs be a God also. How then, my son, could there be dead things in that which is a God, in that which is an image of the father, in that which is one mass of life. Deathness is corruption and corruption is destruction. How then can any part of that which is incorruptible be corrupted or any part of that which is a God be destroyed."

- from Book XII of the Corpus Hermetica (there are other translations than this one, but they all say the same thing)

I don't want to start a pro/anti Vegan debate but I like the fact that Hermes agrees with me: that everything is alive... Everything!

:cool:

JinRaTensei
03-02-2016, 04:40 PM
But isn´t Hermes wrong? (I guess not but I am of another opinion).

If everything in the cosmos is alive than why does death exist? The only conclusion would be that what I perceive as death is actually just a transmutation into something else. Which then begs the question: what is perception? If what I perceive is not reality or rather just my personal reality, then where lies the difference between no perception and death? The only conclusion being that it's not my perception but the perception of something/someone else that determines death and life for me. But how could this perception affect me or anyone? How can there be a god if there is not something which is not god? If all is god than, there is nothing at all since nothingness is also god.

The million cells in my body may never die, just change into new cells - but is this new cell still the same consciousness as the old cell? If nothing can be destroyed, then how can something be created?

The only reason, IMO, we are alive is because we are dead or devoid of consciousness, because otherwise we would be god. And with being, knowing and having already everything there is, where would be the room to do or to know anything?

Being god, being everything is true death a standstill. Only by being (consciously) separated from god/the all are we alive. If everything is always everything than why is there even the need for Hermes to explain something to his son?

BUT if nothing ever dies is meant as in 'energy never vanishes just changes its form', then neither can it be dead nor consciousness and therefor not all that is.

Or would anybody mind me taking over their life, play with their kids and sleep with their wife since you are me and I am you... Where would be the difference?

How can Hermes receive a message from god who is beyond the cosmos? Does this information and consciousness not then add to the cosmos and thereby making it not everything there is but everything+insight of god?

How can there be a god above the cosmos but the cosmos is indestructible and whole? Can god not destroy the cosmos? Will we become god or join god after we have "received" enlightenment? Thus leaving the cosmos and joining god and thereby taking something from that which is incorruptible. OR does it mean we can never reach god and no matter what we do we are on our own? But how did Hermes then speak to god?

The loss of consciousness is death, just like someone with amnesia or absolutely no memory truly died, no matter of his genes still existing, because his consciousness is gone... but his soul is still there. But is it his soul or the soul of his new self? We can´t perceive the answer because we are not omnipresent consciousness. BUT can omnipotent consciousness perceive anything without adding or taking ANYTHING to/from itself?

Andro
03-02-2016, 05:25 PM
If everything in the cosmos is alive than why does death exist?

'Death' is the opposite of 'Birth', not the opposite of 'Life'.

'Life' has no 'opposite'.
______
I.M.S.I.

Awani
03-02-2016, 05:28 PM
LOL. I think you answered your own questions.

Death is transmutation.

As for perception. Imagine the cosmos as a computer. Is anything in the computer not the computer? Is there a program/app that is outside the computer. No. It is all the computer. Word might perceive the computer through words. Photoshop perceive it through images. The browser perceives it through html code. Etc. To simplify. It's not a perfect metaphor but one that comes to mind.

I think this short video explains it well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU0PYcCsL6o


'Life' has no 'opposite'.

Good point.


Or would anybody mind me taking over their life,play with their kids and sleep with their wife since you are me and I am you where would be the difference?

When you play poker how fun would it be to play it seeing everyones cards? The excitement comes from not seeing the other players cards. So you can't perceive my life, my cards... but we all use the same deck of cards.

:cool:

Andro
03-02-2016, 05:29 PM
The UN-created 'Life' principle is always present in everything created. This can lead to misunderstandings, as everything created is subject to corruption and to having a beginning and an end. Not so for the UN-created Life Principle, which is also (coincidentally :)) the 'One Matter'/'One Thing' of the Alchemists.

JinRaTensei
03-02-2016, 05:54 PM
'Death' is the opposite of 'Birth', not the opposite of 'Life'.

'Life' has no 'opposite'.


The UN-created 'Life' principle is always present in everything created. This can lead to misunderstandings, as everything created is subject to corruption and to having a beginning and an end

this explains things in a way I can better grasp thank you but still I don´t get one point or rather in my mind as of now it is a paradox

Everything is life(or rather the possibility of life if I understand correctly). Than what is the void of conciousness?what makes your mind different from mine?why are humans not indifferently interchangeable?
If everything is life than why and how can their be living?If I die I may not be dead but just another form of me but what about the old me where does that go? and if it goes nowhere I just "forget" it than what is difference of that and death


As for perception. Imagine the cosmos as a computer. Is anything in the computer not the computer? Is there a program/app that is outside the computer. No. It is all the computer. Word might perceive the computer through words. Photoshop perceive it through images. The browser perceives it through html code. Etc. To simplify. It's not a perfect metaphor but one that comes to mind.

I like the comparison with computers it gives me an easy image to relate to.So if everything there is (cosmos) is the same computer and nothing can be added or changed than how can there be interaction with a software from outside(god) since hermes states god is above the cosmos.Wouldn´t ANY interaction from that outside source with the inside result in the adding or deleting of information?

if we are cosmos and cosmos is unchangeable and god is outside of cosmos than how can we ever reach him since all we can do is be/become different manifestations of cosmos? or if we can´t reach god but he us than how can he even aknowledge us without thereby also interacting and changing cosmos?And lastly if god can reach us somehow and interact with us somehow without changing the cosmos than how would we ourselves know since all we can know is cosmos but god is not.
so we would basically be abandoned from god for all time without any chance of change if god is not part of the cosmos or if the cosmos is something which can´t be added to or subtracted from?

Awani
03-02-2016, 06:06 PM
The whole concept of the computer is God. The actual object. The inside is the cosmos. But you can find holes in this metaphor because it is not perfect, not as simple and perfect as god/cosmos. ;)

Did you watch the YouTube clip? Why would you want to interact with yourself? That would defeat the game. No fun in that. This is how I see it. This life is just a video game. And what game? It is an emotion simulation. Without this cosmos how can nothingness have emotions?

Most views I express in this thread came to me (and Ghislain) when we had some Magic Truffles. Coming soon in a podcast (as we recorded it). ;)

------------------------------------

Where does the old you go? You mean your physical body? It transmutes into another form. Food for worms etc.

The actual you. The thing you really are is eternal. It goes nowhere. It doesn't mean you will merge with nothingness when you die, you might play another game. This time an emotion simulation as a woman that gets killed in a gangrape. And why not? Could be fun to experience. You would probably learn more from such an experience than the "life" you have now.

I am not saying that what I say is the truth. Only what I have "seen" with my own three eyes. What I have been told telepathically. Perhaps I fail in my understanding, but it makes a lot of sense to me. And even if I am wrong and everything goes black it doesn't matter. How can I know I was wrong when I am "dead"?

It would be much worse to believe all goes black in death and find out it does not. That would be a true mind fuck.

Eventually we will all find out what will happen. The only thing that matters is how you behave/feel in the now. The eternal present. And compassion/love/humility/letting go/accepting is, IMO, the path of the Light. The path I do my best to walk for the benefit of me and all of humanity and nature (which is also me). ;)

:cool:

zoas23
03-02-2016, 09:31 PM
- from Book XII of the Corpus Hermetica (there are other translations than this one, but they all say the same thing)

I don't want to start a pro/anti Vegan debate but I like the fact that Hermes agrees with me: that everything is alive... Everything!


When it comes to the Corpus Hermeticum, there is not much to discuss about vegetarianism... The texts of the C.H. explicitly suggest a vegetarian diet... this is hardly surprising considering the Greek influence they had, specially from neo-orphism, neo-pythagorism, and neo-platonism... three vegetarian traditions.

The Perfect Sermon of the C.H. finishes with a "Vegetarian Prayer"... which is not in contradiction with other quite similar sources that were contemporary of the writing of those texts (i.e, the book by Porphyry on Abstinence from an animal alimentation).

Awani
03-02-2016, 09:39 PM
"For as the sun, who nurtures all vegetation also gathers the first fruits of the produce with his rays as it were with mighty hands, plucking the sweetest odors of the plants, even so we too, having received into our own souls, which are plants of heavenly origin, the efflux of God's wisdom must in return use his service for all which springs up in us." - C.H.

Yes, we even come from plants. My point being, in reference to the Vegan debate, is that many vegans say they don't want to eat animals because they don't want to kill living beings. And I say that "everything is alive"... all is conscious... perhaps even we humans are not the "most" conscious at all.

As for the argument that the meat industry is evil I agree with that, and if someone is a vegan for this reason (and cannot get hold of ecological or ethical meat)... well I see no issue with that. But I do not agree with this vegan position that "meat is murder"... everything is murder. Without murder we would not have "life".

It is ignorant and egotistical and conceited to think that "these" beings are worth more than "those" beings.

Speaking of my own experiences I have heard, seen and felt more wisdom and logic from plants than I have from any human... and more love and compassion from animals than from any human. And cats are Zen Masters no doubt. ;)

I like Terence McKenna's theory:


...animals [incl. humans] are something invented by plants to carry them from place to place.

:cool:

zoas23
03-02-2016, 10:37 PM
Yes, we even come from plants. My point being, in reference to the Vegan debate, is that many vegans say they don't want to eat animals because they don't want to kill living beings. And I say that "everything is alive"... all is conscious... perhaps even we humans are not the "most" conscious at all.

I am vegetarian... and the source you have used to begin this thread (the Corpus Hermeticum) is clearly vegetarian... and as far as I remember, you were vegetarian too.

The vast majority of those who have studied the genetic tree in modern times found out that we do not come from plants, that the plants are not our ancestors, but more or less our "brothers" or "cousins" and we have the same "mother" (primitive proto-bacterias or very simple extremophiles).

Since I decided to go vegetarian 30 years ago (a bit less actually, some 27 year ago)... I am hardly a "vegetarian preacher" (this attitude of evangelizing everyone with the vegetarian gospel often goes away after 5 to 10 years of being vegetarian! :eek: ).

Most vegetarians in the world are aware of the fact that plants are alive! ;) Such thing often doesn't even have to include a theological or ontological debate...

Most Zen masters are vegetarian too.

My favorite gay vegetarian shamanic & alchemical musicians (sadly deceased, but I've had the luck of doing something in which they were involved and received a jaw-dropping gift from them)... playing my favorite song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvVdySem-Xc

I think their song says much more than what I could say on the subject... without the need of using words like "murder" or finger pointing at anyone and accusing him of anything.

Awani
03-02-2016, 10:44 PM
I am vegetarian... and the source you have used to begin this thread (the Corpus Hermeticum) is clearly vegetarian... and as far as I remember, you were vegetarian too.

I personally don't care what people eat. Best thing for the planet would be a bit more cannibalism. Never stated either that the C.H. preaches any pro/anti diet... just saying that it preaches that everything has a soul, everything is alive.

Yes I was vegetarian in the past, but I have since then changed my stance on the matter. I do not eat mammals (only fish, bird, plant), but not for some moral reason... it is just an anti-cannibal theory of mine connected with digestion.

Regardless someone who is vegetarian for some moral, ethical, compassionate reason are deluding themselves (not talking about anti-meat industry reasons). Although to be fair a plant only diet is also "killing" lots of animals. I am sure you are aware of the equally unethical plant industry... so really the hypocrisy is all over the place and the biggest vegetarian guru on the planet is basically full of shit. ;)

To quote Mr. McKenna again:


...in Buddhism plants have no soul, this is a tremendous failure in the Buddhist perception as far as I'm concerned...

As far as I am concerned as well.


Most vegetarians in the world are aware of the fact that plants are alive!

Yes, but they [not all] also create a hierarchy that a plant is less worthy than a fish, which is less worthy than a pig, which is less worthy than a cat, which is less worthy than a human being. Either you eat nothing or you eat everything.

Sure you can have different tastes or health theories or such reasons for choosing a diet. But to have a moral "compassion" - not killing - reason... well such folks are, IMO, utterly delusional. Which they have the freedom to be. Just get a bit bored with all these vegan/namaste/hippie fucks who think that they are closer to God just because they decide that a carrot is less valuable than a fish. Maybe their delusion comes to the fact that such "archetypes" usually don't shower that much... and a cold shower always bring some clarity. LOL.

Anyway didn't want to make this into a pro/anti Vegan debate... just wanted to have some backing for my position that "nothing is dead"... not even the chair I am sitting in. And yes, when I throw it in the bin eventually that is murder in some way. Crazy? Well... I have found in my life that those most crazy are the most sane. He he...

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/dl5rB2T_zpsrlopxwfv.png

If you want to continue this "food" debate, continue it in some of these threads:


A vegetarian tradition (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2623-A-vegetarian-tradition)
Vegan or not... What we eat Or HOW we eat (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3355-Vegan-or-not-...-What-we-eat-Or-HOW-we-eat)


Want to keep this thread going with...


"Now this whole cosmos, which is a great God and an image of he who is greater and is united with him and maintains its order in accordance with that will, is one mass of life and there is not anything in the cosmos, nor has been through all time, from the first foundation of the universe, neither in the whole, nor among the several things contained within it that is not alive. There is not, and has never been, and never will be in the cosmos, anything that is dead. For it was the father's will that the cosmos, as long as it exists, should be a living being and therefore it must needs be a God also. How then, my son, could there be dead things in that which is a God, in that which is an image of the father, in that which is one mass of life. Deathness is corruption and corruption is destruction. How then can any part of that which is incorruptible be corrupted or any part of that which is a God be destroyed."

:cool:

JinRaTensei
03-02-2016, 11:54 PM
@ dev thank you for the link I love almost all of mr watts work!

I seem to have expressed what I wanted to say to badly and to long winded so I will give it another shot :)

My "belief" I call the "duality breach".everything has it opposite,as above so below etc.therefor everything must also have both no opposite and more than one opposite.It is the simplest way of expressing utiate and limitless possibility with something so limiting like language.

I believe the cosmos can NOT be the whole because than either there would be no god or god is the cosmos but hermes states god is above the cosmos.So how does god interact with cosmos without taking or giving anything to it and thereby changing it.if god speaks to a human that knowledge is more than the cosmos which according to hermes is not possible thereby even if god would speak to hermes he could not hear it.

what I mean with the old you is not the physical body but your older state of mind.assuming this is not our first incarnation than what about your life before?can you remember?than how can that older you be still alive?it will never come again and the next you after this life will not be you.you will be dead and will not experience it.the next incarnation of you may still be you but without your conciousness memories and mind the you of now will truely die.
so being alive means remembering the further you remember the closer you will come to god and being a god yourself.
But you dont really remember you just (hopefully) progress,each life a new you knowing nothing of your former life.this former life truely is dead than.
It is like saying energy never vanishes just changes but is the new energy still the old?

I also believe that like mr watts and you have said this is a dream we ourselves choose without certain outcome but until you reach that you which made that decision you never really are you for even just a second.
which,imo, is the whole point this last you or first you will also know of or be with or be god himself so god can not be outside a cosmos which cannot take and give just change because otherwise how reach a point outside of everything that is.

PS: I am a 95% vegetarian I only eat meat and fish about 2-3 times a month because I have a simpel moral view.I only eat flesh which I(fisherman as hobby) or my father (hunter as hobby) fish or shoot.Because of 2 reasons.First I don´t trust meat from the supermarket or restaurants,imo, to much medicine and other chemical waste as also to much energetic stress/hormones from fear and bad treatment of most aimals.the second and to me most important reason being fairness.I do not want to cause any living being pain but I believe what I catch with my hands is mine for the taking and rightfully so. I believe a wild living animal has had the life it desired or could achieve and I am neither lower nor higher than any other living being and thereby in this life am not holier than having to stain my hands with blood like all that lives must.(also vegans and hermits)

Awani
03-03-2016, 12:00 AM
Well I am a higher spirit than the "I" that is dev.

So if God is the higher spirit, and the cosmos is the "I" that is dev... then that is how God can be above the cosmos. For that which is above is also below, as without so within etc.

As for "old state of mind"... well let me simplify my own view on this with this "silly" and "simplified" example:

1. Imagine a guy is a racist asshole. But a "nigger" saves his life. So he is still a racist asshole but a bit less so.
2. Then he dies and is reborn. Perhaps as a "nigger" in Texas in the 1850s.
3. Then he dies and is reborn into JinRaTensei. Now you are probably not a racist asshole... maybe you are now - after those experiences - only an asshole (who isn't at times - whomever says they are never one is certainly one)...
4. You die... and next life you are not even an asshole anymore
5. And then, perhaps, no need to play anymore...

LOL

I have experienced past lives and understood things about myself from them. It is important, I think, not to think about all these things too logical or linear. Nothing really matters in the end but the Light. IMO.


but until you reach that you which made that decision you never really are you for even just a second

In my case not true... I have seen it. I have felt it. I have touched it. And daily I try to embrace it. The higher me. In fact I am "that me" always... every second of the day. It is a matter of perception. I'm not saying I am enlightened... I am just saying that I "sense" this "me" every second... and I try to live up to it. I don't always succeed... but I do my best.

Embrace "the Light". It sounds religious. And I guess in a sense it is. But religion is from Latin religionem "respect for what is sacred"... and I am sacred. As are everything. As is the Light.

Actually your questions/ideas are very interesting. But stuff like this is very hard to put into language. Language makes any "answers" weak... that is why my "religion" is Shamanism because it is the only way you can experience "answers" visually and emotionally. Because the only "truth" is direct experience. IMO.

:cool:

zoas23
03-03-2016, 12:30 AM
Yes, but they [not all] also create a hierarchy that a plant is less worthy than a fish, which is less worthy than a pig, which is less worthy than a cat, which is less worthy than a human being. Either you eat nothing or you eat everything.

For me it was an ethical choice I did when I was a kid, in 1987 or 1988, I'm not 100% sure. I was not a hippie, I didn't even know the term "new age", I didn't know anyone else who was vegetarian... I think I didn't know the term "vegetarian" actually.

There is often a lot of idiocy among vegetarians, I am aware of the situation and I've managed to get banned from almost every vegetarian group in which I participated.

(I fucking hate the anti-Asian campaigns against the murder of dogs for food... I even heard a vegetarian stating: "imagine how cruel is the Chinese society, they do with dogs the same thing we do in the west with cows and chickens!!!! I hate Asians". I told him that he was an idiot and unable to understand that he was debunking the validity of his statement by himself, besides from being an idiot racist... That's how I got banned from the PETA group! :p ).

Anyway, I am not into veggie preaching... it bores me to death.

As for the idea that EVERYTHING is alive... of course that EVERYTHING is alive, even the minerals. The small guild of "rock collectors" that exist on this forum is probably very aware of this fact.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUj1OJREb3s

Awani
03-03-2016, 12:43 AM
That's how I got banned from the PETA group!

LOL... reminds me of how I got banned from an anti-racist group on Facebook. Apparently I was too much of a non-racist somehow.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
03-03-2016, 01:03 AM
this answer had it all agreement,disagreement,confusion,enlightening and most of all a cold shiver XDXD


1. Imagine a guy is a racist asshole. But a "nigger" saves his life. So he is still a racist asshole but a bit less so.
2. Then he dies and is reborn. Perhaps as a "nigger" in Texas in the 1850s.
3. Then he dies and is reborn into JinRaTensei. Now you are probably not a racist asshole... maybe you are now - after those experiences -

from all examples you had to "choose" this one,got to be some karma or gods sense of humour XD.actually that progression from 1. racist ahole over 2. "nigger" and ahole to 3. just ahole would fit perfectly because I am actually racial mixed black mother and white father which would be the result from 1+2,nazi+nigger=half nazi half nigger XD...maybe I really was a racist ^^.


But stuff like this is very hard to put into language. Language makes any "answers" weak...
I also see the same problem/barrier or viewed from another perspective freedom in never being able to express to another everything I wish to express with just words...just shows that words and the realm of words the mind can not be the answer.


Embrace "the Light". It sounds religious. And I guess in a sense it is. But religion is from Latin religionem "respect for what is sacred"... and I am sacred. As are everything. As is the Light.

I think I have a grasp of what you are saying this light for me is actually darkness/blackness but in a holy and positive sense. the blackness you see when you close your eyes.the darkness of the eyes and mind is the light of the soul so from since I was a child I imagined this light or intuition to be just behind this black veil.And so I never viewed the veil itself as bad or a hindrance but as a screen on which this light projects,so there never was/is any blackness/darkness just my soul/higher spirit having his/her eyes shut peacefully o0.

My question to you would be why do you exspect your higher spirit to be outside of cosmos.Given the thought experiment you would have never read any alchemical texts would you still feel/believe that your higher spirit/god is outside of everything there is?

or even if it is outside of cosmos there has to be a connection,some sort of bridge.the bridge in some way obv. being you.
You are and as you stated(and I believe you ! ) have experienced higher spirit/something more than the you of now so how can their be sepparation?

lets say cosmos is a ladder with 10 steps and god/higher spirit is the 11.
how do you reach or even now of a 11. step when the ladder can not add anything from outside?(obv. in this thought model transforming the 10 steps into 11 smaller but higher steps is not possible)

Isn´t the fact that you know of your higher self proof that this higher spirit can not be outside of the cosmos or what would be my current opinion the cosmos can add and subtract conciousness.
a hermetic system is also a dead system because everything must flow to live.But something which is ABSOLUTETLY complete can not flow even if it constantly changes it is not flowing just being turbulent at times and appear to flow.

if the cosmos would be a place without anything to add or substract with god being outside thann cosmos would be a place not only without god but also above god.a place with laws even god can not breach...paradoxly by that cosmos would become/be the most high and the new god and thereby again part of cosmos,imo.^^

Awani
03-03-2016, 11:34 AM
LOL. Cool, I think it's nice to have some different shades in this forum. Too many white dudes. Even though race is irrelevant, in society it still is not and someone that is non-white (or even just mixed) do for sure have a different life experience than a straight white guy. Without a doubt. But this is the beauty of the Internet. Such physical predjudices are invisible. I recall a few years ago someone sent me a message asking me if I was a woman.

Yes, well I tried to make a very extreme example. I am glad you didn't take it personal. I was a bit concerned when I woke up today. Sometime I am a bit extreme for my own good. Although sometimes extreme examples are the best ones.

I do think there has become a confusion. I do not think God is outside the cosmos. My point is that it can seem like that but it is not like that. The cosmos is God.

Before the cosmos there was God. Then the cosmos was created but God did not remain outside of it. Hmmm I actually think the truth of this is so simple that I cannot even grasp it myself. LOL.

My higher self is not outside. Sorry if I confused you. We seem to agree.

If I had never started my journey trying to find the Holy Grail when I was twelve, which led me eventually to this point I am now, I would never even have known of my higher self.

I feel my soul is just becoming an adult. And Donald Trump is just getting into kindergarten.

I also feel that this discussion might be confusing due to the fact that we both might have different ideas when we say words like "god" or "cosmos" or "higher self".

:cool:

JinRaTensei
03-03-2016, 12:56 PM
No worries it is easy to tell the difference between an example and someone who wants to insult...so the harder the words the merrier XD.


If I had never started my journey trying to find the Holy Grail when I was twelve, which led me eventually to this point I am now, I would never even have known of my higher self.

funny coincidence I also started my journey when I was 12 and wanted to see if there really are things like super powers,abilities like flying etc...born out of youthful naivity put with absolute conviction and desire behind it.Also absurdily since I decided at that point I would become at least 300 years old to achieve all my goals, I never seen myself as young or old...as far as I am concerned everything under the age of 75 is just growing up ^^.

I think we both have the same opinion I just understood something wrong or not fully which is why I alluded the wrong conclusion


Now this whole cosmos, which is a great God and an image of he who is greater and is united with him


How then can any part of that which is incorruptible be corrupted

I mostly agree with the corpus hermetica, it is just that I find it contradictory for there to be no possible corruption(good and bad) if god is greater than the cosmos and not just the whole cosmos.
what I don´t really understand is how god,who is greater than the cosmos and thereby by definition more than the whole cosmos, interact with the cosmos/a being without adding or taking something to/from the cosmos and thereby corrupting it? wouldn´t that mean that no interaction is possible because it would mean god could not interact with the cosmos, allthough the cosmos being connected/created/part of him.In my eyes a incorruptable whole interacting with something outside or greater than the whole is a paradox because interaction allways is corruption,good or bad.Imo ^^

Kiorionis
03-03-2016, 03:21 PM
Hi all,


I mostly agree with the corpus hermetica, it is just that I find it contradictory for there to be no possible corruption(good and bad) if god is greater than the cosmos and not just the whole cosmos.
what I don´t really understand is how god,who is greater than the cosmos and thereby by definition more than the whole cosmos, interact with the cosmos/a being without adding or taking something to/from the cosmos and thereby corrupting it?

Perhaps 'God' and the real message is hiding in the contradiction somewhere?
I'm curious if the concept of 'God' as the human consciousness is able to understand it is solid enough to extend him the definition of greater than the Cosmos?

If we turn to the physical world, we find that Nature hates gradients and always strives to maintain some sort of Equilibrium. Why can't 'God' be equivalent to the Cosmos rather than above it?


In my eyes a incorruptable whole interacting with something outside or greater than the whole is a paradox because interaction allways is corruption,good or bad.Imo ^^

For one perspective on the alchemical significance of the Paradox, Androgynus has written something interesting in his blog: Origin: The Prime Paradox (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/entry.php?37-Origin-Part-One)

Awani
03-03-2016, 03:34 PM
For one perspective on the alchemical significance of the Paradox, Androgynus has written something interesting in his blog: Origin: The Prime Paradox (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/entry.php?37-Origin-Part-One)

I was just going to recommend that as well as these ones:


Paradox Power (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3797-Paradox-Power)

Passing through the Gates of Paradox (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4437-Passing-through-the-Gates-of-Paradox)


:cool:

JinRaTensei
03-03-2016, 03:50 PM
Hi kiorionis and thx Dev,just looked it over deep stuff and I like it :).
Have to take my time this evening since now I could only read and mentally understand but never truely grasp due to lack of focus right now(working)
so I would be very grateful to hear your thoughts on my later opinion since it will be your fault in the first place that I will form these thoughts XD.

Ghislain
03-04-2016, 02:15 PM
I have stated many times now that my beliefs are in a constant state of flux, I add to them and subtract from them as new information or experience is collected. With all the information I have at present my best line of fit is that this world is a virtual reality.

Are people looking for the truth or their truth?

My Mother was a devout Roman Catholic; unerringly so. One day I put this scenario to her...

“Mum Imagine I have invited you for dinner and tell you there is going to be a very special guest. On the evening of the dinner there is a knock at the door and in walks God, no choirs of angels, no bright lights, just a man who happens to be God. We all sit down to dinner and I ask him how he created the world. He would have to come up with a logical explanation, we may not understand it as it may be so outside of our imagination or intellect, but he would have an explanation, nothing mysterious”

Logic.

Is there a god at all or could it just be a collective consciousness.


The bible says God made man in his own image; it is what I would do...well I may change a few things, make some parts bigger and some more aesthetically pleasing ;)

It seems almost impossible to think of a man floating around out there creating worlds, but it makes much more sense if he is just creating another virtual world from within the one he is living...not reinventing the wheel so to speak or stretching the imagination too far.

Look at technology today, Virtual Reality is the future, many new platforms have entered the market recently and it will only get better and better until the ultimate game will be one where you are not aware of the game at all, and in this new, VR, world some clever people will be able to hack and we will call them Magicians, then the game will have to be policed to stop the hackers, these will be called Illuminati. Advisers will be sent in and we will call them Prophets. And by the time we mess up the new game we will have found the technology to make another...ad infinitum.


Many people don't even have a beginners level of knowledge about I.T. or A.I. they just use it, but there is no mystery there...why is this, when everyone has something to say about Theology and they know even less about that?

A tiny little block in you pocket vibrates and plays a tune...someone somewhere must be trying to contact you...that makes sense...but how? No mystery there because there is someone who knows...who?


Check out the thread The answer to a question you may never ask (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3802-The-answer-to-a-question-you-may-never-ask) if you have the inclination. That gives the very basics of what goes on and people quickly lose interest at that stage; so let's blame the whole thing on god!

People are looking for the Prima Materia, this is just space in the system to create new things; after all if we create a virtual world there will be a finite amount of data we are able to fit within it, however large that data medium may be. If they/we find a better medium for data storage and manipulation then perhaps we will travel to other planets ;)

I see no paradox in what I am suggesting, unless the fractal realities come full circle and we are our own creators ;)




if the cosmos would be a place without anything to add or substract with god being outside thann cosmos would be a place not only without god but also above god.a place with laws even god can not breach...paradoxly by that cosmos would become/be the most high and the new god and thereby again part of cosmos,imo.^^



JinRaTensei, If there is a god I'm sure he could do as he pleases, making the above a mute point as s/he makes the rules.



interaction allways is corruption,good or bad.Imo

I agree, except for the good or bad bit as that is relative and a whole other thread (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1594-Good-or-Evil) :)...see Video below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWFGqdCW7d0
J. Krishnamurti justice and corruption.




Robert Monroe ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Monroe)...in his book, “Journeys Out of the Body”, found levels of other worlds...which fits exactly. Did he enter the conduit of the data steam? Is this what I saw when in my last ayahuasca journey I saw an infinite stream of individual energy waves, each one a separate being, but all intertwined.

Monroe describes the earth realm as addictive, I believe this is because people are trying to escape the mundane existence of their lives in the previous VR...can you see how we (the collective we) are heading there? Time for a new virtual reality! We make the same mistake over and over...we are supposed to work together with passion and compassion, but we let our ego's trample all over that, so it's time to try again.

Only in your reality do you matter, life will go on without you.

Is what we do here a complete contradiction of what we should be doing? Are we supposed to be playing the game rather than trying to work out what the game is; we already knew it was a game when we started playing and still we will know it once we finish playing...will you feel you wasted your game-time?

Maybe there is no time as we see it, you pop in and out of the game at whatever point you desire; caveman, or astronaut, and it is your choice.

Perhaps anything that is older than the oldest living person is just a record; did WWII actually happen or is it just in the records maybe a lesson to have more compassion. Perhaps that is when the game started...history may be just a game map, or do you believe there was a big bang and everything came from nothing?


“When you were young and your heart was an open book,you used to say live and let live, but if this ever-changing world in which we’re living makes you give in and cry, say live and let die.”

Ghislain