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Xerilon
04-05-2016, 09:06 PM
It has come to my attention that the ancient wise actually knew about the brain chemistry!

Did you know that just has we have the 4 elements, the same main neurotransmitters dominate the control of our brain/mood, named Serotonin, Acetycholine, Dopamine and GABA?

Water

In Tarot it is Cups about emotion.
In the brain it is Serotonin, making us sad and happy.
Antidepressants (are said to) and happy actions like laughing are said to increase this.

Fire

In tarot it is Wands about fire energy.
In the brain it is Dopamine, the motivational driving force.
Rewards and exciting drugs like Cocaine are said to increase this.

Air

In Tarot is is Swords about a sharp mind.
I the brain it is Acetylcholine making us focused.
Cocaine etc. can increase this too :p

Earth

In tarot it is Coins about material things.
In the brain it is GABA the relaxing earthing force.
Nicotine, Alcohol and Benzos are said to increase this.

This is a subject for deep research and I just brushed over it quickly.
Has anyone pondered the idea of this symbolism to make alchemical recipes or practices to control the brain in these various ways?

zoas23
04-06-2016, 06:33 AM
The Tarot isn't truly "ancient"... its roots are in the XV century... and the early XV century decks were still quite "primitive" if compared to the Tarot deck that became the "standard".

The early Greek medicine was VERY related to the four elements even in a psychological way. I'm not a fan of wikipedia, but here's a short explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_temperaments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism

It is interesting that the most famous "medic" of the alchemical tradition (Paracelsus) completely discarded the theory of the 4 humours/Temperaments and he had the habit of self-promoting himself by arriving to a town with classical books on the subject and burn them in front of an audience and then explain his own ideas.
(However he endorsed the theory of signatures, which is not something he created -I've seen some texts claiming such thing-... but he was more interested in planetary signatures and not really "elemental signatures").

Having said such thing, meditations on your weakest element are often a very good practice... The ways to do it depend a lot on the systems you use (Qabalah, Tattwas, Tarot, etc).

Xerilon
04-06-2016, 05:11 PM
Very interesting, and thanks for the links :)

I am familiar with the Tattwas and Tarot, but does that mean that Alchemy is not a system as such? Sorry for the newb question :p

zoas23
04-06-2016, 08:01 PM
Very interesting, and thanks for the links :)

I am familiar with the Tattwas and Tarot, but does that mean that Alchemy is not a system as such? Sorry for the newb question :p

I think I don't understand the question.

Is it because I said: "the ways to do it depend on the systems you use"?

Probably alchemy is not a "system" in the same way that Tarot is (i.e, a system limited to 78 elements and the relations between them and their correspondences).

Kiorionis
04-06-2016, 09:07 PM
Probably alchemy is not a "system" in the same way that Tarot is (i.e, a system limited to 78 elements and the relations between them and their correspondences).

Maybe not exactly, but alchemy could easily be a system of 'elements/principles' and the relations between them and their correspondences. At least this makes up the foundation of how I approach the theory of alchemy. Except the elements/principles are usually vaguely defined.

Andro
04-06-2016, 10:35 PM
In tarot it is Coins about material things.
In the brain it is GABA the relaxing earthing force.
Nicotine, Alcohol and Benzos are said to increase this.

I do (apparently) have some GABA issues. I've always, strangely, regarded Nicotine as some sort of medicine for me. (besides, it "cured" all my allergies, except to cats...)

I also had some strange symptoms when I was 25 (that couldn't be diagnosed by "normal" medicine). I was given a combination of 2 Benzos and it all passed after 3 weeks.

Interestingly though, I have almost no tolerance for Alcohol.

Reading this, I can see myself lacking in Earth/grounding.

I have Neptune in my 2nd House (of Coin, among other things :)) - so this area is astrologically vague and misty in my life.

Perhaps it's a 'Coin' issue to start with :)

Thanks for posting this topic, it feels relevant to me personally...

zoas23
04-06-2016, 11:41 PM
I do (apparently) have some GABA issues. I've always, strangely, regarded Nicotine as some sort of medicine for me. (besides, it "cured" all my allergies, except to cats...)

I also had some strange symptoms when I was 25 (that couldn't be diagnosed by "normal" medicine). I was given a combination of 2 Benzos and it all passed after 3 weeks.

WOW... identical situation here!!!!!!
With "identical" meaning "identical"... except that I have no allergies with cats, but other things (i.e, feathers, polyestirene)



Interestingly though, I have almost no tolerance for Alcohol.

WOW again... I can't drink alcohol either... it gives me an instant skin allergy (my face becomes red as a tomato and it feels like a sun burn). This is especially true for beer in my case.



Reading this, I can see myself lacking in Earth/grounding.

Is this reflected in your horoscope / natal chart? In my case it is.

I am curious about your Natal Chart... to many of the circumstances you described are identical for me (I know we have the same sun sign, but I'd like to see the rest).

[something that helped me is "Bioenergetics" -in the style of Lowen-... I had a teacher that was very good and didn't focus at all in the psychological side of Bioenergetics, but mostly in our consciousness of our body parts... his method could be described as "you have a body" and was very earth-based... and quite often with meditations that were quite different to the ones I am used to: i.e, a meditation about the muscles and bones of your feet, without letting your mind go very "high" and away from Earth or the most material plane].

Salazius
04-07-2016, 01:11 PM
Allergy to alcohol comes from the toxin that is released after the process of ethanol in the liver (creating in fact acetate-ethyl if I remember well). It is genetical, and not everybody respond the same to it. Some evacuate this acetate ethyl farily quickly and alcohol do no harm to them, some are extremely responsive to it.

Andro
04-07-2016, 02:15 PM
Allergy to alcohol comes from the toxin that is released after the process of ethanol in the liver.

I don't think I'm allergic (no allergic reactions like Zoas mentioned above), I just have a very low tolerance... Less than one beer could make me virtually drunk :)

Awani
04-07-2016, 03:58 PM
Less than one beer could make me virtually drunk :)

Everyone gets "virtually" drunk. ;)

:cool:

Salazius
04-07-2016, 06:16 PM
Let me take two or three beers, I'm out.

Andro
04-07-2016, 06:29 PM
Let me take two or three beers, I'm out.

Hehe, me too...


Everyone gets "virtually" drunk. ;)

From virtual beer, my dear.

Is this the beer thread now :) ?

zoas23
04-07-2016, 06:43 PM
Allergy to alcohol comes from the toxin that is released after the process of ethanol in the liver (creating in fact acetate-ethyl if I remember well). It is genetical, and not everybody respond the same to it. Some evacuate this acetate ethyl farily quickly and alcohol do no harm to them, some are extremely responsive to it.

I my case I'm sure this is not the problem, I think I am allergic to something they use in the industrial process of some beverages... and just a drop gives me allergy.

my allergy happens with: beer, some wines, chocolate liquor, coffee liquor, Tia Maria...

It doesn't happen with: whisky, vodka, gin, other wines, absynthe, spagyric tinctures, distilled ethanol.

Other than that, I get really drunk with an absurd little amount of alcohol.

Salazius
04-08-2016, 11:25 AM
Andro said something about his Neptune, and I agree with him.

Uranus will give you a response to alcohol that will be more creative, but without any remembering of what happened last night ("I had genious ideas, where are they now ?!")

Neptune will make you fly and blur the world, your mind, everything. But it can lead to dependance at some levels.

Alcohol with mercury will open your mind and help you dissolve blocages. More talkative.

+ jupiter = more cheerful
+ mars = super agressive/super stupid
+ venus = you f*** with everybody
+ saturn = makes you sad
+ sun = super opened to people you don't even know
+ moon = more creative, but making you more vulnerable/super sensitive

Just ideas ...

Andro
04-08-2016, 11:42 AM
I've added "Astrology" to the thread title :)


Neptune will make you fly and blur the world, your mind, everything.

Maybe my low tolerance for Alcohol is a 'safeguard' of sorts to avoid this... Also, my Water sign Neptune is in Opposition to my Earth sign Saturn.

zoas23
04-08-2016, 12:34 PM
Andro said something about his Neptune, and I agree with him.

Uranus will give you a response to alcohol that will be more creative, but without any remembering of what happened last night ("I had genious ideas, where are they now ?!")

Neptune will make you fly and blur the world, your mind, everything. But it can lead to dependance at some levels.

Alcohol with mercury will open your mind and help you dissolve blocages. More talkative.

+ jupiter = more cheerful
+ mars = super agressive/super stupid
+ venus = you f*** with everybody
+ saturn = makes you sad
+ sun = super opened to people you don't even know
+ moon = more creative, but making you more vulnerable/super sensitive

Just ideas ...

I don't pay attention to the three modern planets, but I know how to read them in a chart (I prefer a very classical astrology)... though I sometimes make exceptions (i.e, in "eventual astrology", where it is important if the Moon has an aspect with something or not... then I accept the 3 "moderns".

I liked your idea, Salazius, but I don't understand it quite well...

Are you talking about "signatures" in alcoholic drinks??? (i.e, an alcoholic drink with a martian signature)... Or are you talking from the point of view of astrology and explaining that a chart (either natal or eventual) can show the relation that a person has with alcohol?

[I actually like BOTH theories].

Since this thread is going places... I just remembered one of my favorite texts, Plato's Symposium... and I remembered that Symposium simply means "drinking [alcohol] together"... and since it has 7 characters, I thought that maybe it would be possible to relate each one to alcohol + one of the 7 classical planets (I use something like a 3% of my brain during the early mornings... so my idea is not necessarily fantastic... and I don't discard the chance that in some hours, once my brain finally wakes up, I may think: "What the hell did I write???").

Kiorionis
04-08-2016, 01:12 PM
I use something like a 3% of my brain during the early mornings... so my idea is not necessarily fantastic... and I don't discard the chance that in some hours, once my brain finally wakes up, I may think: "What the hell did I write???"

Previous day's virtual brews wearing off eh? :cool:

Neptune is in my Ascendant, so I personally know how accurate this statement is: "make you fly and blur the world, your mind, everything. But it can lead to dependance at some levels."

But relative to the preprogrammed, egotistic, sheeple-ish world I was living in before I took flight, I prefer this perspective much better.

I prefer wine over beer. It's not as depressing in quality.

Salazius
04-09-2016, 11:02 AM
I was just saying that some people are more "venusians" or more Neptunians, and that alcohol could enhance some of the traits of personnality that they have.

Xerilon
04-10-2016, 01:30 PM
Wow, very interesting thoughts! I am glad the idea was helpful to some and sprouted more ideas to others :)

I am also very sensitive to alcohol, getting the "buzz" pretty quickly after one beer, but according to Zalasius it could be a good idea to drink a bit of alcohol on Thrusdays for me, as I want to remove blockages etc. and Thursday is with Mercury, but following that idea tells me that we need to add individual planetary correspondences into the mix to make it work, or am I wrong?

Also for beginners (like me) planning the choice of herbs to make my 7 tinctures this spring/summer, would it be possible to pick a set of 7 that will make a fully customized repairing regime for failing chakras and neurotransmitters? That would be really cool if possible!

EDIT: It has come to my attention regarding the OP that Serotonin as a mood controller is a very controversial subject, yet it has a vital role in the brain and might still be connected to the Water element. It may be so that increasing it might not have a positive effect on mood, thus verifying the fact why many SSRI antidepressants have a negative effect on people, including me. More research is needed.

Andro
04-10-2016, 02:05 PM
Thursday is with Mercury

Thursday is associated with Jupiter. Wednesday is associated with Mercury.

Kiorionis
04-10-2016, 02:32 PM
but according to Salasius it could be a good idea to drink a bit of alcohol on Thrusdays for me, as I want to remove blockages etc. and Thursday is with Mercury, but following that idea tells me that we need to add individual planetary correspondences into the mix to make it work, or am I wrong?


I understood Salazius to mean that, according to a natal chart, someone may have more affinity with Jupiter (the alcohol then strengthening the Jovial qualities).


I was just saying that some people are more "venusians" or more Neptunians, and that alcohol could enhance some of the traits of personnality that they have.

--------------------


Also for beginners (like me) planning the choice of herbs to make my 7 tinctures this spring/summer, would it be possible to pick a set of 7 that will make a fully customized repairing regime for failing chakras and neurotransmitters? That would be really cool if possible!

Most certainly. I don't know when exactly in history it came about, but nowadays it's quite common to use the planetary correspondences while preparing herbal tinctures (Cinnamon/Sun, Burdock/Mars, etc.)

I have recently been interested in looking into the relationship between the geometric structure of phytochemicals and the five platonic solids. I think it would be a revealing area of study -- five structures, five tastes, five major body organs, five 'lower' chakras, etc.

Salazius
04-10-2016, 04:37 PM
I don't believe at all in planetary associations with days of the week. It's all human vision for me. As well as planetary hours. It's just a mental trigger that you believe in, in order to enhance some magick works.

I'd better use astrology, because some Mondays/moon day are very Saturnian. And some "solar planetary hours" are more jupiterian astrology speaking. Just prefering to use Nature instead of human vision.

But you can even go beyond astrolgoy and be totally independant in your actions if you know how to.

To use spagerics plants preparation in order to help equilibriate your inner energies is excellent IMO.

Xerilon
04-10-2016, 06:33 PM
Thursday is associated with Jupiter. Wednesday is associated with Mercury.

Ah, I stand corrected :)

Xerilon
04-10-2016, 06:48 PM
Very interesting. My GF/Wife has some knowledge on Vedic astrology which she claims is far better than the western type, and I'll ask her to help me on that.

I totally agree that the seven planets may simply be the human vision system, and that following nature is better. Yet they have an appealing mystery around them..:)

Andro
04-10-2016, 07:11 PM
I don't believe at all in planetary associations with days of the week.

I don't either. Besides, who knows when they started counting the days?

But I agree it could be helpful for making the mental connection. I myself am very much a Wednesday person, even though I was born on a Monday...

Also, I'd like to use the opportunity of this line of thought and ask something...

Is it just me, or every time somebody asks "What day is today?" - the answer is almost always "Wednesday"? Has anyone else noticed that?

zoas23
04-10-2016, 10:02 PM
I don't either. Besides, who knows when they started counting the days?

But I agree it could be helpful for making the mental connection. I myself am very much a Wednesday person, even though I was born on a Monday...

Also, I'd like to use the opportunity of this line of thought and ask something...

Is it just me, or every time somebody asks "What day is today?" - the answer is almost always "Wednesday"? Has anyone else noticed that?

The signature of the days and the planetary hours are certainly based on conventions.
They somehow work for groups, were conventions are sometimes needed... but on an individual level, they never made much sense to me.

And even the energy of the days is sometimes completely contradictory with their conventional signature.

I love this song so much!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhdOQ5BnBys

And "Sundays" as the day of the Sun... such thing never made sense to me... For me the Sundays are so filled with Saturn that I can't relate them to the Sun at all (the nostalgic song of "everyday is like Sunday" makes sense to me... it wouldn't make much sense if I related the Sundays to the Sun).

As for your Wednesday issue... probably each one of us has a different signature... some numbers, days of the week, words, symbols, etc that chase us everywhere.
i.e, for me it's not really a day, but quite often numbers... specially the number 340 (that's the main one, though there are other numbers that pop up again and again all the time too).

As for what Salazius wrote, "But you can even go beyond astrolgoy and be totally independant in your actions if you know how to."

I ccompletely agree with him... I like this image a lot:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-huED68cgm_U/UFdjLXAMmVI/AAAAAAAAAY8/Uw-CMG5D8m8/s1600/Hildegard_Bingen_Lucca_Liber_Divinorum_Operum_Man_ Microcosm_Vision_2.jpg

It's from the texts by Hildegard von Bingen (though the illustration itself is a copy that may be based on an original drawing by her or not... it's a bit uncertain).

The interesting issue of this image for me is that it shows the visionary nun seeing the 12 influences that the Earth receives... but the drawing shows her sitting in a corner and writing... but her corner isn't "inside" the circle of the 12 "winds".

I'm also quite sure that the above drawing was very influential for Austin Spare when he draw his diagram of the "Earth Inferno":

http://s28.postimg.org/4oui557d9/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_04_10_a_las_6_53_01_p_m.p ng

And mostly perceived the Circle as the Circle of "Illusion".

But what I like about the drawing of Spare is that he related the Alpha with "into illusion" and Birth... and the Omega with "out of illusion" and Death... and then he draw two arrows.... one of them is continuous and "natural" and next to the Alpha that goes from Birth to Death.

But there is another one, only drawn with dots and goes backwards, from Omega to Alpha and moving in the opposite direction of the "evolution of inferno & the perpetual circuit of humanity".

Lux Natura
09-16-2016, 04:42 AM
As per the idea of the original post:

Imagine a machine exists that can be fed inputs, does some operation(s), and gives an output.

We, the observer, can see the input and outputs, but not the operations. Furthermore, we only really live in a reality of the outputs, unaware that there are inputs and a machine at all.

It is possible, through feeding various types of information into the system, and watching the outputs, to get some sort of idea of what the actual machinery inside is doing, once we become aware of the machinery existing.

Over time, with refinement of specific types of inputs designed to elicit outputs that bring light to the otherwise dark inner operations, we can gleam a general sort of metaphor or parable of how the machine actually operates. We can never name the exact parts of the machine for what they actually are, but just through inventing new ideas that capture those elements that are also found within the machine.

I believe truth to be a self referential pattern that is mirrored by the way our neurons are organized, and by proxy, the way that the laws of nature operate in order to elicit such an organization. Further it reveal the roots of the one law from which all the various other laws of nature are derived.

Because of the design, one can find this truth irregardless of the types of inputs that are initially fed into the machine. One can be a simple working man, or a devout occultist who has read all the texts and investigated all the historical ideas, and i don't think one has any greater chance than the other to come upon the Truth.

There are lots of great pictures that seem to show this idea. Specifically the philosopher crawling out of the spheres of the earth and sun and moon and stars to see the machinery behind it is one example (as are the ones posted above).

I suppose quite simply "know yourself" alludes to all this as well.

Andro
09-16-2016, 01:24 PM
[...] the one law from which all the various other laws of nature are derived.

Would there be a way to communicate this 'one law' in words?


One can be a simple working man, or a devout occultist who has read all the texts and investigated all the historical ideas, and I don't think one has any greater chance than the other to come upon the Truth.

I resonate with this. For me, it only takes one single realization, independent of one's particular background, to kick-start this 'journey' to the point where the path eventually walks itself...


I suppose quite simply "know yourself" alludes to all this as well.

I suppose there are many 'ourselves'... But only One Self that really counts/matters, in this context... ('self' not to be confused with 'identity', IMO...)

Lux Natura
09-16-2016, 06:13 PM
Would there be a way to communicate this 'one law' in words?

I think this is a technical issue more than anything else that deals with the limits of that function within perception that is responsible for language.

I imagine we all know what a "cup" is. Yet if we are to define it, we invoke more words, such as "container", "handle", etc. Not to mention needing experience in what a liquid is. Each of these new words invokes even more words to describe what they are as well. And before we know it, all possible symbols and ideas and words are united in a quest to give an accurate description of the one simple thing. Now of course, we aren't really aware of this. We just surf on the waves of that sea of symbolisms, and communicate through a mutual trust that "what I say to mean will be understood by another in a way that we can communicate accurately". Our own internal dictionaries are unique, and our own expression of symbols are nothing more than the cup which holds within it that which we mean to express.


One can say that a system, no matter how advanced, cannot possibly describe itself in detail, unless it can view itself from outside itself, in which case, that new outside now has to be included in the description of the system, meaning a new new outside has to be found, etc.


That all systems, no matter how simple or complex have within them the one law, is what I believe to be the only truth that I can say about it, and that by stripping away the symbols and meanings and everything else but leaving that which creates the relationship between the elements of the system, and reducing it to the one operative function, shows the one law - or at least it's first expression.

To describe it though necessarily means to invoke a new system of ideas. One could call it "man and woman" or "sun and moon" or "ox and goad" or "axis and circumference" or whatever else can be described as a binary thing. To escalate it to a trinary one would call it "man woman child" or "sun moon and earth" or "ox and goad and field" or "axis and circumference and diameter". Of course, our understanding of even the binary expression such as "man and woman" will pull with it all sorts of other ideas, hangups, experiences, etc, so even then we have to reduce the idea down to it's most basic and pure sense.

To reduce it to a monad means the way you explain it becomes not bound by relationship or description or definition. But in all the examples you can see an operative force. What is the operative force that draws opposites together? One may even say, that anything that can be drawn together contains this operative force, and it's not opposites necessarily but complimentary as well. The whole idea of defining what is an opposite to what is just another rigamarole of symbolism.

The symbols to describe it necessarily contain within them, in potential, all meanings. Which makes sense, since from this one law all thing spring. The first manifestation of the power of this law is that which governs the relationship between 2 things - any 2 things. Thus you may even say the one law is nothing but a point - and it's first expression of creation is a mirroring, whereupon the totality of the system it creates is the line. But in this simple process, there has been a limit of polarities created, with the infinite gradient of all things that can exist in between, all interconnected.

For that matter we may as well call that which came before the idea of giving relationship to 2 things, The ONE - and this is internally described to each person who has experienced it in their own peculiar way.

It's the source, but being beyond everything else, no expression of it is accurate.

Ghislain
09-16-2016, 07:24 PM
We look at binary as two states 0 or 1, but represented as a wave it is square and in theory a square wave contains every infinite sequence of sinusoidal frequencies. (not sure if i remembered that correctly)

Similar to a perfect white light is made of all the colours of the spectrum.

Ghislain

Edit: a bit simplified

solomon levi
09-16-2016, 08:01 PM
well said Lux Natura.
if i were to put a name on it i would say self-awareness. everything is self-awareness of the One.
The One becomes self-aware as two/reflection/light/consciousness/dimension... :)
Involution/coagula is self-awareness and in evolution/solve there is "other-awareness"... but that's relative as all is the One.

Binary is the code. Dimension can be di/2 mens/mind or dime/10... kind of the same way we think of octave as 8, but musically it is 2:1 double.
Binary doubling is the best way so far i can describe the folding/unfolding of the 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 (square of mercury/8) squares and double-squares alternating...
these are the folds, the frequency waves, exponential (to the power of 10) the dimension is the unit/1 which is still 1 when multiplied and divided...
as there are infinite lines in a plane, and the plane appears infinite to the line
8 also the number of Hermes, the sephira of mercury... 888 = Iesous