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Awani
04-26-2016, 08:48 AM
About one year ago I had a baby that died at birth. To paraphrase Terence McKenna: no one goes from birth to death without encountering tragedy.

Had it not been for my (and my wife's) shamanic training/path that experience would have broken us.

Last week, on the full moon, we got a living baby. At the moment of birth I focused on my awareness. I looked around at the three women who were helping my wife give birth and something dawned on me.

This is exactly what it looks like when I myself cross over to the other side. This is the "setting" and "feel" of the beings that welcome me in those intense experiences. Just read a book also about how DMT is released in the brain at death, but also at birth - when the head is pushed out of the vagina. That is why it is better to be born like this rather than getting cut out. Apparently this birth-DMT release aid the child to deal with future trauma (according to studies).

Perhaps I projected it but when the baby opened its eyes it had the same look as someone tripping.

Finally (and the main point of this thread), and I never knew, but now I understand it is common knowledge, that the true Tree of Life is the placenta:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsblx5ojeq.jpeg

:cool:

Cheetah Bunny
04-26-2016, 02:17 PM
Congratulations Dev!!! This is so exciting!!! God bless you and your Family!! "Everyone is blessed when a baby is born"- Edward Elrick. This is amazing!!! and a really neat picture too!! Congratulations again!!!!! :D<3

zoas23
04-26-2016, 02:48 PM
I'm truly happy for you. Congratulations in this new phase of your life.

I was going to write my own philosophical vision of the tree of life and babies, but to see you happy is better than any philosophical theory!

Andro
04-26-2016, 04:11 PM
I was going to write my own philosophical vision of the tree of life and babies

In my own general philosophical vision, Life has nothing to do with (and is independent of) Birth & Death (or any cycles, for that matter), so I don't have a philosophical vision on babies and the tree of life.

But I'm curious to hear yours.

Awani
04-26-2016, 04:11 PM
Thanks.

I would not have posted if I didn't expect a philosophical view. I was amazed to see the Tree in the placenta as I was so unaware of this before.

:cool:

thoth
04-26-2016, 09:03 PM
Congratulations :)

ghetto alchemist
04-27-2016, 12:24 AM
Congratulations Dev!!

Your post was an emotional roller coaster for those of us that didnt know.
Very sad news, and very happy news all together in one post.

You must have felt already that you're in a new phase of life now.
The most satisfying times of your life are in front of you.

I read my first alchemy text within a week after seeing my son born.
Somehow holding a new-born baby awakened a yearning for truth deep within me.
I guess it'd be different for all of us, but change is certain.

Many happy times ahead!

Dendritic Xylem
04-27-2016, 04:11 AM
You're a Papa!
Thanks for sharing the fascinating picture.

Andro
04-27-2016, 06:37 AM
Apparently this birth-DMT release aid the child to deal with future trauma (according to studies).

According to Shamanic tradition (at least the one I went through), physical birth is WAY more traumatic than physical death.

DMT is being produced/released at birth, at death, during NDE's, conscious OOB and, to some extent, during lucid dreaming. One can train to produce it at will.


DMT is released in the brain at death, but also at birth - when the head is pushed out of the vagina. That is why it is better to be born like this rather than getting cut out.I was born Caesarian and I have no problems producing it. The vaginal 'birth squeeze' also stronger 'locks' one into the physical reality illusion. Different perspectives/traditions, I guess.

Some ancient cultures/tribes used to mourn births and celebrate deaths. I can't remember the names of such tribes, let alone pronounce them. But maybe some of you are aware of this ancient custom.

Ultimately, the incarnating Spark of Life may open or override any 'locked' programs, etc... regardless of initial imprints.

zoas23
04-27-2016, 07:35 AM
In my own general philosophical vision, Life has nothing to do with (and is independent of) Birth & Death (or any cycles, for that matter), so I don't have a philosophical vision on babies and the tree of life.

But I'm curious to hear yours.

It's late and I should be sleeping, but I'll try to be short:

Your visions and perspectives are the ones I feel closer to in this forum; but we all have different nuances.

I know you like the notion of the ONE in a very neo-platonic fashion. This is my perspective too.

HOWEVER, I also think that there is a reason that made the ONE get involved with the *illusion* of the physical world... and the reason is experience.

Life is endless, but physical life isn't... and the birth of a new experience is transcendental.

The Tree of Life is the expansion of the ONE... and each microcosm / human is an expansion of the ONE. In the Microcosmic scale, the Tree of Life is the human experience... and I give it a value.

If not, why we even thought of writing our anthology? Isn't that book an expression of our desire to share our experiences? Why we have such desire?

Awani
04-27-2016, 07:57 AM
Thanks everyone.


DMT is being produced/released at birth, at death, during NDE's, conscious OOB and, to some extent, during lucid dreaming. One can train to produce it at will.

Yes. That is very true.


I was born Caesarian and I have no problems producing it. The vaginal 'birth squeeze' also stronger 'locks' one into the physical reality illusion.

Perhaps a vaginal birth would have made a shamanic initiation easier? But we cannot know 'what if'. But we always must remember that scientific discovery always exclude "fringe" perspectives so it is as flawed as "fringe" science that excludes science.

It is common in Africa to celebrate death. Personally I celebrate both birth and death and everything in-between. Birth is death. And death is birth. So not much difference. And in both there is a Tree of Life. Life is not a physical experience.


Your visions and perspectives are the ones I feel closer to in this forum; but we all have different nuances.

You might not be aware of this but Andro and I usually say the same thing, but for some weird reason it always sounds like we have different perspectives. ;)

:cool:

Andro
04-27-2016, 08:07 AM
You might not be aware of this but Andro and I usually say the same thing, but for some weird reason it always sounds like we have different perspectives. ;)

I wonder WHY that happens ;)

(maybe not always/necessarily 'say' the same but 'mean'/'intend' the same/similar... psycho-semantics...)

Awani
04-27-2016, 08:18 AM
(maybe not always/necessarily 'say' the same but 'mean'/'intend' the same/similar... psycho-semantics...)

And now it happened again. ;)

:cool:

Awani
04-27-2016, 08:32 AM
HOWEVER, I also think that there is a reason that made the ONE get involved with the *illusion* of the physical world... and the reason is experience.

Reality is an emotion simulation game, IMO. ;)


Very sad news, and very happy news all together in one post.

Pain of loss is painful due to selfish reasons. The dead don't weep. Might sound harsh but dropping your wallet and loosing a child is the same sorrow, but of different degrees.

It is painful to not have what you want to have. Also a "big" loss also teaches you to appreciate what you, yet, have not lost (and what truly matters cannot be lost as it is everywhere).

In this sense I am grateful for the death of my first child. Everything in my life has become "shamanic training". Everything is an initiation of sorts.

The alchemical path and the shamanic path is the same path. Reality is a vibration that can be influenced in all ways imaginable. When this is achieved it appears as magic, but for the practioneer it is normal (not paranormal).


Somehow holding a new-born baby awakened a yearning for truth deep within me.

It is one of those things that can only be understood if you have direct experience. But that goes for any experience. Like ayahuasca, shamanism, alchemy or being homeless. I cannot suggest it for anyone.

Only with awareness does an experience become valuable for growth. That is why ignorance is not bliss. And this is also why most people live as zombies. To be aware makes pain more painful. But in pain you can always find the Light.

May the force be with you! ;)

:cool:

zoas23
04-27-2016, 10:11 AM
You might not be aware of this but Andro and I usually say the same thing, but for some weird reason it always sounds like we have different perspectives. ;)

I am absolutely aware of it, probably that's why mostly the same thing happens to me with you.

Deleuze in his "Abecedary interview" gave my favorite reply on the subject (I've explained it in a different thread, it's an interview in which he was asked about his ideas by a reporter, but the questions had to be focused on a word and following the order of the alphabet... and only 1 question per letter). When the reporter arrived to the F, he asked him about Fidelity... but Deleuze tricked the journalist and decided to talk about FRIENDSHIP. His words are amazing to me and quite related to this subject.

This is my own poor translation... but I think you may like it:

"... fidelity or loyalty is not exactly equal to friendship, you know. Friendship, why do we become friends with somebody else? For me, it is a matter of perception. This chaos is not exactly about having similar ideas or ideas in common, but what does it mean to have something in common with someone else? It means, and I may being banal, when one doesn't have to explain himself as to allow an understanding. This friendship doesn't come from ideas shared in common, but from having a common language or, actually, a common pre-language. There are people that I do not understand at all when they speak, even if they say very simple things like "Can you give me the salt?", I have to ask myself: "What are they saying?". On the contrary, there's other persons with whom I can speak of a highly abstract subject and I do not agree with them, but I understand everything. Anyway, I understand what I'm told. Which means that I have something to say and they have something to say, right? It is not at all in the community of ideas ... it is a mystery. It is that kind of indeterminate background which makes... Well, yes, it is true that there is a great mystery; the fact of having something to say to someone, understanding the other one so well without common ideas. I have a hypothesis: each of us is able to grasp a certain type no one holds all types at once - a certain type of charm. There is a perception of this charm. What I call charm? I'm not talking about homosexuality in friendship, not at all, but a gesture of someone, a modesty of someone, are sources of charm, but then they come to life to such an extent to the vital roots, in such a way that one makes friends with someone.
There are ... if you we speak about phrases; there are phrases that can only be said if the person who says them is vulgar, or ignoble. I mean some types of sentences. I would have to look for examples, but we do not have time, and also each one of us would change those examples ... But, at least, for each of us, when you hear a phrase like that one, we feel: "Oh, my God! What I'm hearing? What it is this filth?", Right?
It is impossible to think that you can say a phrase like that at random and then amend it: there are phrases that can not be amended ... and, conversely, with regard to the charm, there are insignificant phrases that have such charm, that attest such delicacy that immediately think "He's mine", not in the sense of ownership, but " He is mine, and I hope to be yours." Anyway, at that time friendship is born, or it can begin to born. So certainly it is a matter of perception, to perceive something that suits you or teach you, that opens you, that reveals you something, yes.
Someone emits signs, and you get them, or you do not get them ... but in my view, all friendships are based on these same bases: being sensitive to signs that someone emits. That said, I think that's what explains why one can spend hours with someone without saying a word, or preferably saying ... I do not know, saying completely insignificant things, saying, as a rule, saying things ... Friendship is funny."

My translation is far from being amazing, but I assume it's possible to understand it in my broken English.

I agree with Deleuze on this issue... Friendship is all about CHARM, a secret and impossible to explain enchantment... a hidden "pre-language" that two persons share, which doesn't get translated as identical ideas.

I.e, I've had the privilege of reading your poetry and I was amazed, so much that I felt the urge to translate some of it and share it with very close friends.

Or, in this thread, I don't truly relate the Placenta with the Tree of Life in such a direct way as you do... but I understand what you mean, I like what you mean, I feel what you mean... and I learn.

Same thing happens to me when you speak about psychedelics or "medicine"... I am not specially interested in that subject... and yet I completely follow your logic, which doesn't mean that I think the same.

In my case, my "trip" has quite often being related to Hermetic Orders... and yet I can speak with a person whose "trip" is also related to Hermetic Orders with a similar philosophy and in a matter of seconds I am feeling like: "What the hell is this person talking about?"... and his words are like the sound of a piston engine.

I know how much you detest Hermetic Orders and that's fine for me... I'm not an evangelist of them, I don't even care if someone likes them or not... that's not the point at all for me. I simply see them as a path, which can be identical to DMT or getting obsessed with Maths or Bonsais... It doesn't matter. It's not about "common interests" at all.

So it's not about having identical ideas, it's not about walking the same path, it's not about having had similar experiences... It's quite often about saying: "I disagree with you, but on a deeper level I perfectly understand you and I enjoy a lot understanding you". Such thing does not happen with everyone... only with those that each one perceives as having a similar vital root that is impossible to explain.

I.e, when we recorded the podcast, I didn't enjoy very much the part of the interview because they make me feel uneasy (but that's just me, for some reason I don't like answering questions in the context of an interview... even if I'm glad that we recorded it)... and once the interview finished and I felt free to talk... I don't even remember what we talked about, but it was not something of vital importance, indeed, I think we talked about trivial things after the interview... but I didn't feel uneasy at all and it was absolutely enjoyable for me... and then I saw the news about your daughter and I simply smiled.

(I am fantastic in getting out of topic... an issue that will probably make Andro get nervous :p).

Salazius
04-27-2016, 11:33 AM
Stanislav Grof is amazing concerning the initiation and phases of Birth.

Again, all my congratulations to the papa and mama :)

Kiorionis
04-27-2016, 01:05 PM
Yes, congrats dev and sleeveless :) from your photos, the baby looks quite healthy! Can't wait to hear more while in Amsterdam.

Awani
04-27-2016, 02:25 PM
Thanks all.

zoas23: I agree with what you say, but I don't detest Hermetic Orders. I am a Gemini, and I often say things I have forgot I ever said. LOL. Some views I have last all my life, some a few years and some for an hour or two. ;)

It is how I learn. I cannot know if I am a racist unless I think like one for a day or two and then see if it works, and if it does not (which racism doesn't), then I change back.

I don't really have a specific view with the placenta other than that it looks like a tree, and it is the life support of the baby. Just as the umbilical chord is the connection with the mother, just like the golden chord that connect the body with the spirit in OBE according to what I've been told about that... as above, so below...

:cool: