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Altiora Peto
05-02-2016, 05:38 PM
These are questions I've often pondered:

*I have read that the Stone cannot be found on the ground to be picked up. If the minerals in the ground develop and evolve to become more perfect, why is it a Stone can not also evolve purely in nature and be found perhaps in the ground?

*If it could evolve in nature, how long would it take? Longer than 4.5 billion years?

*Perhaps the Stone is created in nature, but interacts with the less evolved matter around and is consumed. If this is the case, how it is that the stone does not interact with whatever container man places it into (glass or other material)?

*If only man can create the Stone, does it not attach a certain significance to man? The Earth and life will be here, long after man destroys ourselves, will the Stone cease to exist then?

*Similarly, could a person not also be perfected through the external events of their life? Perhaps not consciously pursuing a path of perfection, but being guided by their experiences to come to manifest the wisdom and knowledge of sages? For example, if you consider the philosophy of the manifestation of Jesus as a physical man, he was not born then worked to earn the title of Christ, he was born as the Christ, even when his will was not to follow his path he said, "Father, if you are willing, let this cup pass from me; however not my will, but yours be done.

Perhaps there is a simple to answer to these, perhaps there is not. I'm curious to hear the perspective of my fellow alchemists. What do you guys think?

JDP
05-02-2016, 11:46 PM
These are questions I've often pondered:

*I have read that the Stone cannot be found on the ground to be picked up. If the minerals in the ground develop and evolve to become more perfect, why is it a Stone can not also evolve purely in nature and be found perhaps in the ground?

Because nature does not make the Stone. If it did, everyone would sooner or later know about its existence not from witness accounts in old books but from direct observation, a high probability after mankind's thousands of years of existence on this planet. Yet it has never been found in a natural setting.


*If it could evolve in nature, how long would it take? Longer than 4.5 billion years?

Impossible to know, since nature does not make it.


*Perhaps the Stone is created in nature, but interacts with the less evolved matter around and is consumed. If this is the case, how it is that the stone does not interact with whatever container man places it into (glass or other material)?

Because nature does not make it. The number of "coincidences" for the conditions of its preparation to happen in a natural setting would be astronomical. It just won't happen. You are more likely to win the lottery than for nature to somehow make the Stone purely by a chance occurrence of the right mixture of materials and right conditions.


*If only man can create the Stone, does it not attach a certain significance to man? The Earth and life will be here, long after man destroys ourselves, will the Stone cease to exist then?


Only that all those who manage to decipher the way of making it would be ingenious, perceptive and industrious fellows with a great deal of empirical experience.

The Stone would continue to exist potentially, even after mankind is gone. All it would take is for some other form of intelligent life to figure out its confection for it to actually exist again instead of just potentially. It could be little green martians with a pair of long antennas growing out of their heads and tentacled arms who discover how to make it next. The Stone does not care whether it's man or some other being who discovers its existence. It just "is". It can't choose who discovers it any more than ketchup or plutonium can choose who discovers how to make them.


*Similarly, could a person not also be perfected through the external events of their life? Perhaps not consciously pursuing a path of perfection, but being guided by their experiences to come to manifest the wisdom and knowledge of sages? For example, if you consider the philosophy of the manifestation of Jesus as a physical man, he was not born then worked to earn the title of Christ, he was born as the Christ, even when his will was not to follow his path he said, "Father, if you are willing, let this cup pass from me; however not my will, but yours be done.”

"Perfection" is purely subjective. So are religions and their sets of beliefs. There is no "right" or "wrong" answer here since no one knows anything for sure when it comes to matters that rely on faith alone.

Hellin Hermetist
05-03-2016, 05:25 PM
These are questions I've often pondered:

*I have read that the Stone cannot be found on the ground to be picked up. If the minerals in the ground develop and evolve to become more perfect, why is it a Stone can not also evolve purely in nature and be found perhaps in the ground?

If we believe the alchemists, nature can not create the Stone without the Art, because Nature can not remove the impure earth when it congeals the metallic humidity. That impure part of the earth is called by some alchemists external sulfur. The alchemists divides the pure earthly part from the impure and after that congeals the pure humidity in its pure earth. Nature cant do that thing alone. Some alchemist also say that we have to remove a phlegmatic humidity as well. But I dont believe that gold or silver contains any phlegmatic humidity.



*Perhaps the Stone is created in nature, but interacts with the less evolved matter around and is consumed. If this is the case, how it is that the stone does not interact with whatever container man places it into (glass or other material)?

The humid part of the stone interacts with its suitable dry part. Not with glass or any other foreign substance. The necessity of a universal solvent for the confection of the stone is pure sophistry. How could you keep in a glass a substance which will corrode and dissolve it?




*If only man can create the Stone, does it not attach a certain significance to man? The Earth and life will be here, long after man destroys ourselves, will the Stone cease to exist then?

Also only man can build a skyscraper or design a car. So yes, no man means no skyscraper, no car, no stone.

Awani
05-03-2016, 05:54 PM
If it could evolve in nature, how long would it take?

Very nice thread. Brings some questions to my mind, more than answers...

What is natural? Everything is natural. Everything is manufactured by nature (even if nature use intermediates like humans). Always liked Terence McKennas idea, and I paraphrase, that humans were created so plants could be carried from A to B.

Also what is the Stone? Everyone seem to have different views on what it is exactly, and what it can do.


The Earth and life will be here, long after man destroys ourselves, will the Stone cease to exist then?

The way I see it is that human beings is not the end product. The Stone is already created. In fact it might not even be a part of this world at all. And if so then it does not matter if there is an Earth or not.

I really don't know, but it is worth to contemplate. What I do feel is that the Stone is certainly not 100 % matter... and to "look" for it in "only" the physical reality is a waste of time. :) But looking/searching can be very informative, I just mean it is a waste of time if one expects to arrive at some end result.

:cool:

JDP
05-04-2016, 01:49 AM
Also only man can build a skyscraper or design a car. So yes, no man means no skyscraper, no car, no stone.

But what if there are other intelligent life forms "out there" who are not human? If the Stone exists, what would prevent them from also eventually discovering its existence? Nothing. So yes, mankind can disappear and the Stone would still be a potential reality to other intelligent beings, just like they could also figure out how to make ketchup, or plutonium, or skyscrapers, or cars.

Hellin Hermetist
05-04-2016, 11:05 AM
But what if there are other intelligent life forms "out there" who are not human? If the Stone exists, what would prevent them from also eventually discovering its existence? Nothing. So yes, mankind can disappear and the Stone would still be a potential reality to other intelligent beings, just like they could also figure out how to make ketchup, or plutonium, or skyscrapers, or cars.

I dont believe that exist in the earth other intelligent life forms that arent human. Maybe in some other planet. But if you mean that the confection of the stone is a chemical process and has nothing to do with some occult psychic energy existing only in man then I agree with you.

JDP
05-04-2016, 03:47 PM
I dont believe that exist in the earth other intelligent life forms that arent human. Maybe in some other planet. But if you mean that the confection of the stone is a chemical process and has nothing to do with some occult psychic energy existing only in man then I agree with you.

Yes, I meant "out there" as in somewhere in the universe, which is huge. If we assume that other intelligent life-forms exist somewhere other than our planet, then obviously the Stone would be fair game for them as well. I don't see why only humans could acquire a knowledge of it.

JDP
05-04-2016, 03:55 PM
What is natural? Everything is natural. Everything is manufactured by nature (even if nature use intermediates like humans). Always liked Terence McKennas idea, and I paraphrase, that humans were created so plants could be carried from A to B.

"Natural" in such contexts is taken to mean "happening without human intervention", "not made or caused by humankind".


Also what is the Stone? Everyone seem to have different views on what it is exactly, and what it can do.


The fact that some people have strange ideas about what the Stone is is one thing, and basing a definition of it on what most historical witnesses who say they either prepared it or obtained samples of it by other means is another very different one. From a historical perspective, the Philosophers' Stone is a substance that can change varying amounts, but always in excess of its own weight, of base metals into silver and gold, and, according to some accounts, also cure a huge amount of diseases, and even prolong life.

Kiorionis
05-05-2016, 11:56 AM
"Natural" in such contexts is taken to mean "happening without human intervention", "not made or caused by humankind".


And since it is one of our human words, it most commonly refers to the processes of Earth and our Solar system (limited to what we have experienced).

ArcherSage
10-27-2016, 05:01 PM
The stone is created from planting a seed. The knowledge of how a tree grows is no different. Under the right circumstances plants will grow with sunlight (fire) rain (water), air, and soil (earth). Within you are each of the elements, sadly most of us don't know how to plant the seed.

Schmuldvich
10-27-2016, 07:10 PM
The stone is created from planting a seed. The knowledge of how a tree grows is no different. Under the right circumstances plants will grow with sunlight (fire) rain (water), air, and soil (earth). Within you are each of the elements, sadly most of us don't know how to plant the seed.

How does one plant the seed?

Can you explain what you mean by planting the seed, ArcherSage?

ArcherSage
10-27-2016, 08:38 PM
The seed is planted within the body, the body is made of the same substances as the earth. The body is like soil that the seed is buried in. You must bring the seed upwards into the body. There is a difference between semen and sperm, semen contains less than 5% sperm. Semen is constantly created in the glands surrounding the area, and sperm is generated in the testes. You plant the seed upwards rather than outwards by learning the inward orgasm. Ejaculation and orgasms are two different things, and learning how to separate them is important. The sperm is released from the testes but does not exit the body, it is brought back up a different path and stored. Under the right conditions with fasting and meditation and healthy practice, the seed can grow inside the body and actually reach the brain when done right, resulting in the "brain gasm" as they call it. This is just one interpretation of the seed and the fountain of youth being within the body. I personally believe the clear water they describe is referring to purified sperm combined with CSF (spinal fluid) that flows from the brain down the spine, and is the river that delivers the seed to its resting place in the brain. It is why the sexual areas are called fruit or fruit of the loins, the ejaculation is the forbidden fruit. Wasting of the seed that leads to the tree of life is a sin. The parable that Yeshua speaks of saving the seed I believe refers to this.

Kiorionis
10-28-2016, 01:05 AM
Hey all,


There is a difference between semen and sperm, semen contains less than 5% sperm. Semen is constantly created in the glands surrounding the area, and sperm is generated in the testes.

What I've always found to be most interesting is that the male semen is alkaline, and is planted in the female womb which is acidic -- according to human physiology.


I personally believe the clear water they describe is referring to purified sperm combined with CSF (spinal fluid) that flows from the brain down the spine, and is the river that delivers the seed to its resting place in the brain.

Is this a reference to the Golden Elixir of the Taoists? From what I've read on the subject, it doesn't move down the spine once it's developed, but is swollowed through the nasal cavities and brought down into the lowest "elixir field" near the naval.




It is why the sexual areas are called fruit or fruit of the loins, the ejaculation is the forbidden fruit.

I always thought the "fruit of the loins" was a reference to someone's children? Taken literally with analogies to natural principles, the fruit develops after the fertilization of the female egg with the male pollen.

But I suppose it could be the fruit of the male physiology just as well. Interesting stuff, ArcherSage.

:cool:

ArcherSage
10-28-2016, 01:24 AM
Yes you are correct about the fruit of the loins being the offspring. I should slow down my typing sometimes lol. But the reproductive organs have been views as a symbol of fruit or being fruitful. Seeds are planted and the fruit comes forth from the loins (offspring). But you can eat the fruit that derives from your own seed. I believe this is the sacred Amrita that they talk about, that is secreted into the mouth and ingested. But the process begins with sexual transmutation. The CSF carries the seed from the sacrum (holy bone) to the brain where it mixes with the DMT and other chemicals in the pineal gland, to be secreted back into the mouth. That is the process from what I have read.