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Awani
05-11-2016, 03:00 PM
Been listening to some podcasts about Satanism and I felt that this statement is interesting to think about:

Jesus is Satan!

:cool:

Kiorionis
05-11-2016, 03:50 PM
The relativity of Things!


4. When a great crowd gathered and people from town after town came to him, he said in a parable:
5. "A sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell on the path and was trampled on, and the birds of the air ate it up.
6. Some fell on the rock; and as it grew up, it withered for lack of moisture.
7. Some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew with it and choked it.
8. Some fell into good soil, and when it grew, it produced a hundredfold." As he said this, he called out, "Let anyone with ears to hear listen!"

3 out of 4 of these analogies are about death and desolation. Curious.


_____

On a slightly similar note, I've just remembered a dream I had a very long time ago. I was dating an agnostic/christian girl, and things weren't going so well. After I decided to break up with her, I had some dreams about how to go about it. At one point, I was trying to banish her in the name of Christ. But every time I tried she just sat there and smiled or it would make her laugh. So I switched things up, and banished her in the name of Satan. After saying it only it once, she started freaking out, like it was poison to her ears.

After I woke up, I realized that if 'demonic' things have an aversion to 'Christ', then 'angelic' things necessarily have an aversion to 'Satan'.

Interesting polarity.

Andro
05-11-2016, 05:52 PM
Some Gnostic authors compare/equate 'Jesus' with 'Lucifer' as being both agents of freedom (in fact some say they might even be the same 'entity', allegorical or not), while 'Satan', on the other hand, is compared to the 'demented creator god' or 'Demiurge'.

Awani
05-11-2016, 07:45 PM
Some Gnostic authors compare/equate 'Jesus' with 'Lucifer' as being both agents of freedom (in fact some say they might even be the same 'entity', allegorical or not), while 'Satan', on the other hand, is compared to the 'demented creator god' or 'Demiurge'.

I am aware of this. :) I just thought that Satan sounded better (for effect) than Jesus is Lucifer. For most people the two are the same.

:cool:

zoas23
05-11-2016, 11:07 PM
The Neoist Alliance (a false Hermetic Order that existed between 1994 and 1999*) worked a lot with this idea in a different way. It was a tongue-in-cheek Order with a strong Marxist tone... and they were promoting the idea of the Holy Trinity of Jesus, Satan and Marx (most notably in a text titled "Marx, Satan and Christ united in struggle" which is not online, I only have it printed... and translated to Spanish (http://salonarcano.com.ar/contenidos/literatura/contraculturas/stewarthome/marxsatan.html) with permission of its author).

They mostly played with the word Jahbulon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahbulon#Examples_of_interpretations_of_the_word_b ased_on_its_syllables), deciphering it as
Jah= Jesus
Bul = Baal = "Satan"
On = Heliopolis = The dialectics of darkness and light = Marx

And their idea was that using Marxist and Hegelian dialectics it was possible to reconcile the concepts of Jesus (thesis) and Satan (antithesis) as "antagonists" and evolve to a synthesis that united them.
Then again, their texts involved a lot of tongue in cheek occult humor.

* The Neoist Alliance was an Hermetic Order that pretended to be very "elitist" and mostly looked for troubles with fascist groups in England (something *they* somehow managed to do (https://www.stewarthomesociety.org/feud.htm)) and mostly worked sending a regular newsletter to its subscribers (I was among them). However the "Order" only had 1 member (Stewart Home) and it was somehow a hoax.

__________________________________________________ _____________

However, I agree with Andro... classical Gnosticism didn't really identify Jesus with Satan.

The core idea of classical Gnosticism was very based on neo-platonic ideas and its cosmology can be resumed to:

Superior Non-Being
_________________
Being
_________________
Inferior Non-Being

And sometimes as:

Superior Non-Being (Hen) ("God")
_________
United Being (Nous)
__________
Multiplicity of Being (Psyche)
__________
Inferior Non-Being

Or, using a non-Christian source: "27. With respect to that which is non-being, we either produce it, being ourselves separated from real being, or we have a preconception of it, as adhering to being. Hence, if we are separated from being, we have not an antecedent conception of the non-being which is above being, but our knowledge in this case is only that of a false passion, such as that which happens to a man when he departs from himself. For as a man may himself, and through himself, be truly elevated to the non-being which is above being, so, by departing from being, he is led to the non-being which is a falling off from being". (Porphyry (http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/porphyry_sententiae_02_trans.htm))

Different Gnostic schools placed "Satan" in different places, but never in the "Superior Non-Being" (in several cases "Satan" was seen as the inferior Non-Being... though some Gnostic schools thought different and placed Satan as the ruler of the multiple being).

[Satan as the inferior non-being can easily be found in the writings of "saint" Augustine of Hippo... which is the most Gnostic-influenced philosophy that the Catholic Church accepted -even though I would not classify Augustine as a Gnostic, but the Gnostic influence is hard to deny].