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Awani
05-22-2016, 06:34 PM
Recently did an interview with the President of the Flat Earth Society for the podcast (http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com). This as well as discussing Flat Earth in other parts of the Internet, looking at the proof/debunking etc... has led me to the conclusion that Flat Earth Theory is: a very nice theory and that is it

All the "proof" that Flat Earthers have of why the Earth is flat lack one thing: a basic understanding of math, science, size and gravity (to name a few).

I am all for questioning reality and try and see it from different angles, but never has a Flat Earth "proof" felt stronger than a Flat Earth Debunked "proof".

So from my point of view the Earth is a globe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_W280R_Jt8

The "triangle evidence" in the above video is the best one IMO.

:cool:

Dwellings
05-22-2016, 06:50 PM
The actual truth behind "Flat Earth"

NASA Flat Earth DBA Strategy http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1810

Another nice NASA thread http://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1424

Awani
05-22-2016, 06:54 PM
The actual truth behind "Flat Earth"

...is that it is in fact a globe. LOL!

NASA/satanic/illuminati "proof" is not enough to prove it is flat IMO. The only proof you need is simple science.

The flat earth people might as well say Earth is a triangle. At least then it would fit more with the Illumianti logo.

:cool:

Dwellings
05-22-2016, 06:56 PM
Dev, I recommend you go through the Apollo section of cluesforum , I guarantee that you are going to have a lot of fun. I never thought along satanic lines though

Awani
05-22-2016, 07:00 PM
Conspiracies bore me too much. Most of the time they are inaccurate. And the rest of the time they are just coincidences. Out of perhaps 100 conspiracies there is only 1 conspiracy... and that 1 is usually something to do with trying to cover up some money or war plan, which is not really a conspiracy but just the normal way politicians do business. No surprise there.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-24-2016, 06:04 PM
Conspiracies bore me too much. Most of the time they are inaccurate. And the rest of the time they are just coincidences. sounds almost like a conspiracy to me ^^.I donīt know which conspiracy theories you entertain or what is your definition of a conspiracy theory but in my experience it has been almost the complete opposite, almost all conspiracies I entertained turned out to be "true" even those I did not personally believe in..politics without conspiracies is not possible
maybe we are just looking at different material or maybe you have some kind of bias,maybe I have a bias myself but

which is not really a conspiracy but just the normal way politicians do business. No surprise there.

than,imo, it is a conspiracy plain and simple.just because it has become daily routine does not make it less of a conspiracy...I could literally name you a hundred conspiracies who have turned out to be true just in the last 5 years in politics alone not even talking about history fraud,science fraud,withholding of inventions and energy,poisoning of food and soil etc etc.

Awani
05-24-2016, 06:15 PM
Sure but it is boring and irrelevant. IMO.

People want to waste hours a day chasing conspiracies. Why don't they spend hours a day tracking down every normal asshole in the town they live instead?

It's easier to put some dickhead neighbor in place and teach him some manners, than try and get Obama & CO to change their ways.

I know what conspiracy means, but to me a conspiracy is "secret". To me 9/11, and the USA war machine plans and the Taxation Scam and such things are neither secret nor illogical. They are crystal clear. Not really a conspiracy. A conspiracy would be more like: did the record industry cover up and help Courtney Love kill Kurt Cobain? Could be? Maybe not? Impossible to know.

But World Bank, Federal Reserve, Taxation, Bush Family etc... that is nothing "secret"... at least not to someone that can add 1+1.

I'm rambling... like those conspiracy nuts.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-24-2016, 06:31 PM
I 100% agree with you on that ^^, it truely is a dualistic mindgame, a distraction from the fact that unveiling conspiracies does not change anything if people do not change as a whole.

Awani
05-24-2016, 06:38 PM
Yes. Some Flat Earth dude I talked to said it was liberating to know the Earth was flat. Which is fine for him. The Elite is trying to cover up the fact that the Earth is flat. Why? I have not heard a more pointless and meaningless thing to do.

If I was the CEO of Illuminati Worldwide I certainly would rather want people to entertain such nonsense rather than considering the fact that daily the government is shoving its invisible cock up their asses and extracting - with threat of force and violence and death - a large % of everything they make... because if they don't people will loose their minds and chaos and cannibalism will rule the streets.

LOL!

A mind set free is Anarchy to the so-called Elite. That is chaos in their eyes. But order in the eyes of the mind set free. ;)

:cool:

zoas23
05-24-2016, 06:57 PM
If I was the CEO of Illuminati Worldwide I certainly would rather want people to entertain such nonsense rather than considering the fact that daily the government is shoving its invisible cock up their asses and extracting - with threat of force and violence and death - a large % of everything they make... because if they don't people will loose their minds and chaos and cannibalism will rule the streets.


LOL... I actually knew a lady who was close to being the CEO of *Illuminati Worldwide* (LOL... I still laugh at the fact that we still talk about the Illuminati as a *right-wing* and *authoritarian* organization, when they were the opposite); the owner of one of the top 10 biggest private banks in the world.

Having a bank that exists in maybe 100 different countries made her travel a lot by plane.

She was 100% convinced that the Earth was flat... and talked with me about it several times; mostly trying to show me why I was an ignorant (I don't think she believed in a *conspiracy* of *round earthers*... she mostly considered that everyone was ignorant and wanted to open the eyes of other persons).

My biggest question was: "How the hell she manages to run a worldwide company, a bank, believing that the Earth is flat?????".

Awani
05-24-2016, 07:26 PM
I still laugh at the fact that we still talk about the Illuminati as a *right-wing* and *authoritarian* organization, when they were the opposite...

The left was Bavarian Illuminati, the right is the Illuminati. But I prefer to call them Babies in Suits.


"How the hell she manages to run a worldwide company, a bank, believing that the Earth is flat?????"

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/theeconomist_zpsvmgdrcjo.gif

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-25-2016, 05:56 AM
The Elite is trying to cover up the fact that the Earth is flat. Why? I have not heard a more pointless and meaningless thing to do.

actually, imo, it is not so pointless but quite genius if one is to entertain certain perspectives.it is believed that the reason for covering up the nature of a flat earth is to hide god.think about it.this is not about flat vs round but geocentric vs heliocentric.if the world revolves around the sun than we are just one planet in billions nothing more than chance,the epitomy of insignificance .but if the world is geocentric and the entire universe literally revolves around the earth than there can be made no claim for human life to be insignificant.humans would not be an accident but the absolute supreme(in this dimension)...try telling a supreme being to work 24/7 for paper and a ass whooping ^^.
further if the world is heliocentric than there can be aliens,abductions,secret technologies,space colonies etc but if the world is geocentric than all the supernatural pretty much comes down to demons,angels,spirits and elementals.people would believe in god and heaven(in the shape of their choosing) and would think twice about killing and deceiving each other.
a heliocentric worldview can not accept a flat earth because it would mean the other planets had to be flat as well, all the while circling around the sun..which goes against the laws of physics we are taught.

actually if you dive deep into the subject you will,imo, come across more evidence and more sound logic for a flat earth than a round one and I am not a believer in any way but there are things which canīt be explained...like the curviture of the earth and why it is none existent or really sick shit which is just not known mainstream...like for instance dozens of videos showing more than one sun in the sky , eve some showing the moon as well for idiots who want to claim it is the moon reflecting in broad daylight and brighter than the "original" sun.this vid is jst one of them

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgv_nmqv91M

fun fact, many believe this planet has 4 suns as shown in starwars and also many believe that the elite is hiding land on this planet...that the antartic ice belt is not the end but a secret passage as documented in dozens of credible accounts,admiral bird or byrd just to name one(who also happens to be the most outstanding soldier of americas modern times,youngest admiral of all times and said to be indiana jones on steroids^^)...and which land are they supposedly hiding..ever heard the terms shambala or agartha?

fun fact nr 2. this land and truth was also known by J.R. Tolkien the author of lord of the rings.lord of the rings is believed to be more truth than fiction
and middle earth as mordoor are believed to be what is today called germany.sounds crazy but tolkien gave hints so obvious that everyone who looks just a little closer will find the truth and this is not (just) my opinion...like middle earth meaning literally the middle of the earth as in secret lands inside of the earth and mordoor literally means rom(reversed) door or the door/gate to rome which is the german alps.

I donīt know if the earth is flat or not but I do know that on this planet their are wonders and miracles beyond our believe

Awani
05-25-2016, 07:00 AM
All you wrote are interesting things to consider. From a Sci-Fi perspective. But any wonders and alternative realities occur IMO on an inter-dimensional level.

As for the curvature which I heard and read a lot about let me just say that this is simply wrong. Size matters.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-25-2016, 07:52 AM
As for the curvature which I heard and read a lot about let me just say that this is simply wrong. Size matters. donīt want to argue with you we have different opinions relating to this,I just simply wonder how you can be absolute on this subject or anything because being absolute as in "this is simply wrong" is not something I would expect from a person as intelligent as you are,which is why I was talking about having a bias before...

please show me what you read or heard and how size relates to this(as in you can not transfer conclusions from a miniature earth model to the whole globus) because to me this makes no sense.its the simplest math,imo.

look up the curvature of the earth anywhere and you will find something along the lines of 8 inches per mile,everything else would be against our current natural laws (if the earth is not flat or much much much bigger than it is supposed to be)

this simply means that in 10 miles distance each object should be 80 inches below the horizon which is about 2 meters which would already mean that a person could not be able to see an object in that distance if the object and observer are on the same height....how come there are hundreds of videos with distances of over 100 miles where you can still see buildings,ships etc on the other side?also videos done on the ocean(therefor absolute flat line between observer and object) this should be impossible.

if I am wrong or biased I would really like to know but your answer makes no sense for me so I would appreciate if you care to elaborate a bit more....

also ps: why use derogative terms like calling it sci-fi when this of all places is a alchemy forum and thereby everything relating to spiritual alchemy is not more or less sci-fi than this topic.it simply means you(and I) have not experienced it ourselves but thousands of others have

Awani
05-25-2016, 09:38 AM
donīt want to argue...

I am not arguing. :) And you are right. Nothing is absolute.

However the reason it looks flat is because of the size. Anyone who has been on the ocean and seen something tall in the distance can easily spot the curve as the bottom part of the object is below the horizon. I read somewhere that if the Earth was sized down to a normal house Mount Everest would rise only a few centimeters of the floor. So of course it appears flat.

Flat Earth is just as likely to be correct as my new theory called Triangel Earth.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/CaV16rBWQAAFm8Q_zpsncpsuupx.jpg

This is a fun site: Earth Curvature Calculator (https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/?d0=77.69964331016352&h0=0.9290529944314495&unit=metric)


why use derogative terms like calling it sci-fi

I think you projected your own view on the term Sci-Fi, which I personally hold in high regard.

However (again) everything you wrote was fun and interesting and would be good information for a Sci-Fi book/story. But I wouldn't use it for anything else. ;)

I don't have a problem one day going into space and discover I was wrong. But I can be wrong about Santa Clause at the North Pole as well.


further if the world is heliocentric than there can be aliens,abductions,secret technologies,space colonies etc but if the world is geocentric than all the supernatural pretty much comes down to demons,angels,spirits and elementals.people would believe in god and heaven(in the shape of their choosing) and would think twice about killing and deceiving each other.

It has been like that in the past. So there wouldn't be much difference. The real mystery is between the code. Interdimensional or outside of normal reality.

:cool:

Ghislain
05-25-2016, 11:11 AM
JinRaTensei In a "flat-earth" theory how would one explain satellites orbiting the globe showing pictures of know geographical areas continuously with no end?

When pictures were taken of Earth from the moon why did it not depict the whole layout of the world in all its glory.

Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

Why do ships sailing away always disappear over the horizon?

There are many more questions like this, but as it is not something I have put my mind to perhaps mine are a bit weak.

How thick is this flat earth?

What is on each side of this flat earth?

What happens when I come to an edge of this flat earth?

The list goes on...

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
05-25-2016, 11:18 AM
the code seems to be the forum hot theme in the moment ^^,seems very interesting and abstract.
I am not saying the earth is flat just that it is not how we are told..triangular like you mention for that matter has equal validity for myself at this point.

when I want to get a basic grip on things I break them down to its simplest postulate.for instance 1+1=5 is not possible according to our current beliefs and dogmas about math.also seeing something 50 or 100 miles away which should be about 1km below the horizon is also not possible according to our current beliefs and dogmas.taken as a given that observer and object are on the same altitude like in water(which seeks equilibrium and is always flat) there can only be 2 reasons for this postulate to occur.1) the earth is flat no matter if rectangular,triangular or a giant dildo in shape or 2) the earth is a ball with a diameter over 10 times larger than science beliefs it to be.
I donīt know if the bottom part of objects on the ocean is below the horizon as you mention but it does not matter in making the before mentioned postulate impossible according to science.that is all I know and it is enough to know our globe model is wrong but not enough to know what it truly is.

as with the video I posted about multiple suns posted in the sky I personally do not label it as sci-fi but as observation.calling it sci-fi is judging it no matter how positive one is toward sci-fi,imo.the question,for me, is merely if all the videos,pictures and different sources across the world from all walks of life are all expert photoshop wizards who have conspired to hoax the public for whatever reason or if what I see and everyone else who wishes to look at it scientifically can see also.that these videos show something which is impossible according to the current worldview

Awani
05-25-2016, 11:26 AM
It's hard not to say Sci-Fi when you included both these things in your original post:


many believe this planet has 4 suns as shown in starwars and also many believe


this land and truth was also known by J.R. Tolkien the author of lord of the rings

One guy said that water, which he inspected in a bowl should act the same as water in the ocean. And in his bowl the water is flat. True science at work. ;)

Just for fun I googled Secret Alien Base in the Himalayas. I just made it up. I have never heard of such a thing. Apparently there is one!!! :-0 ;) The human imagination is much larger - and greater - than what actually occurs in "reality".

The Mystery and the Divine and the Magic doesn't need any conspiracy scheme.

Code = just another way of talking about the "DNA" of this Virtual Reality we call "Life on Earth".

:cool:

Awani
05-25-2016, 11:37 AM
Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

One proof the Flat Earth folks have is: if the Earth is spinning why don't we feel it moving.

My question: why doesn't an ant know that I am wearing Hugo Boss perfume when I am standing next to it?

:cool:

Ghislain
05-25-2016, 11:41 AM
There are many phenomena that can explain seeing vessels at greater distances than one would expect due to the horizon effect.

have a look HERE (http://www.waterlevels.gc.ca/eng/info/phenomena).

The two sun thing can be scientifically explained too due to refraction...why were these events not reported by the many observatories around the world?

When we see a massive sunset on the horizon are we to believe the sun just happened to come much closer for that moment in time?

Ghislain

Ghislain
05-25-2016, 11:44 AM
One proof the Flat Earth folks have is: if the Earth is spinning why don't we feel it moving.



Probably due to the fact that when you throw a ball in the air while travelling 60mph in a car it doesn't fly backwards.

If you threw the ball out of the window it would appear to fly backward in relation to you, but to someone in the street it would be travelling at great speed in the same direction as you.

At the equator people are travelling at about 1000mph in relation to the Earths axis. They would certainly know the world had been spinning if you suddenly stopped it :)

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/981448_337356709756506_2969441499148773840_o.jpg

In the pic above I'm at about 12,000ft and you can see the curvature even from there.

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
05-25-2016, 11:59 AM
Ghislain as I mentioned before I am neither a flat earth beliefer nor a globe earth one.All I say is that there are things which violate the rules of the world and its science we all have been taught.Since I do not know more than that I neither can proof to you that the earth is flat nor that it is a globe ^^.

But I can try to share the observations I have gained regarding your questions


JinRaTensei In a "flat-earth" theory how would one explain satellites orbiting the globe showing pictures of know geographical areas continuously with no end?

no satellites and photoshoped pictures.all communication said to be done via satelitte is supposedly transmitted through highly advanced transmitter towers on land developed from prototypes of nikola tesla.the technology has been around for about 100 years


When pictures were taken of Earth from the moon why did it not depict the whole layout of the world in all its glory.

How could it? the earth is said to be a globe and the moon is said to be almost 400K km so how could a picture from the moon show the entire world no matter if flat,round or whatever?due to the angle of the shot every object would seem 2 dimensional and flat.

But I dare you! if we truly have been to the moon/space dozens of times as have the russians than find me a single real not computer made photo from earth in all the history and science books,all videos there is not a single picture of earth which is not a photoshoped fake not a single one.if you look closely you can even see how 70% of all pictures of earth from space have one and the same cloud structure copied and pasted 7 times in each single image due to laziness.

if all it took was a astronaut to take a selfie with his handy than how come we donīt have a single real picture



Why does all the mathematics for a rotating globe in relation to all that is around us work.

does it? or does every math,science,chemistry has a point where they have to guess or more formally called they have to use constants,variables and assumptions.black matter,pi,and all the other constants which have to be what they are so that our modern science can function donīt people find it funny how science can have these things? or how people can just accept 97% of the universe being unknown black matter and pretending with it being labeled black matter it is all the same and can easily be used for mathematics in quantumphysics......if you donīt know what the fuck it is than how can you calculate and call it something other than guessing and fantasy.
the moon for instace is not 400k km away because the first rocket measured the distance but because it has to be 400k km away to fit current science.

btw talking about rockets...how does a object move in vacuum like space is supposed to be when the minimum requirement for any kind of movement is the ability to have some matter to reject from like air...how does a gasoline fueled rocket do this magic trick which is impossible to the laws of our beloved science.


Why do ships sailing away always disappear over the horizon?

There are many more questions like this, but as it is not something I have put my mind to perhaps mine are a bit weak.

How thick is this flat earth?

What is on each side of this flat earth?

What happens when I come to an edge of this flat earth?




I do not know and the speculations regarding the edge is even a bit to wild for my taste but it is believed like in almost every religion also mentioned that at the outer most edge of the world one would find a giant dome or fishbowl encircling us from the heavenly waters...which is believed what space truly is,liquid...

but these are mere thoughts nothing one can check and observe and verify or falsify like the things I mentioned before

btw: awesome picture I am jealous because of never having sky dived :(,each time I checked in germany one needs a special license to dive alone or have a trainer shove his dick at you in a tandem jump constantly which makes it sky falling and not sky jumping ^^

as of the curvature what kind of a lense does your camera have a rectangular or a oval one? I would guess the later if not I guess the curvature has been proven although I still would not belief that the two suns thing and the seeing objects in the distance can merely be put off so easily and take further examination,imo.

zoas23
05-26-2016, 12:24 AM
There are many phenomena that can explain seeing vessels at greater distances than one would expect due to the horizon effect.

have a look HERE (http://www.waterlevels.gc.ca/eng/info/phenomena).

The two sun thing can be scientifically explained too due to refraction...why were these events not reported by the many observatories around the world?

When we see a massive sunset on the horizon are we to believe the sun just happened to come much closer for that moment in time?

Ghislain

It's called Sun Dogs... and it's not new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dogs (the most usual phenomenom would be to spot 3 suns instead of 1.... but 2 can happen too).

I don't really agree with JinRa here and I'm quite close to the position of Dev, but I love how JinRa dared to defend an idea that for almost anyone is absurd... because such thing made me connect OTHER ideas.

For some reason the idea of a "hidden sun" and a "hidden part of the Earth" made me think of the very early Pythagoreans and their model for the Solar system ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_astronomical_system ) with a hidden "Anti-Earth" (or "Counter-Earth") and the universe spinning around an Axis of a Central Fire (which is not the visible sun, though the visible Sun reflects the light of this fire)...

And then I remembered the thread of True Puffer ;) [the BEST name anyone had in this forum... it's one of those names that makes anyone think: "I wish I could have thought about it before!!!" ... even if he decided to switch to T.I., which is nice, but not as amazing as T.P.).... The thread of Alchemy in Magical Grimoires.... and I thought of this "Central Fire" and how it was quite *forgotten* by the following neo-pythagorean lines that existed after the early pythagorianism.

And I remembered that the one who brought back the idea of the Axis of Central Fire is Pasqually in his Treatise of the Reintegration of Beings (and then Saint-Martin in many books, always following the ideas of Pasqually)....

And whilst I don't think the early pythagorean model of the universe makes much sense, I LOVE the idea of the "central fire"... and I thought that it could be of interest to True Initiate (either reading the few fragments of Philolaus or reading Pasqually or Saint-Martin).

JinRaTensei
05-26-2016, 12:30 PM
zoas23


It's called Sun Dogs... and it's not new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dogs (the most usual phenomenom would be to spot 3 suns instead of 1.... but 2 can happen too).

I don't really agree with JinRa here and I'm quite close to the position of Dev, but I love how JinRa dared to defend an idea that for almost anyone is absurd... because such thing made me connect OTHER ideas.

thank you for that piece of information very interesting!although it also makes me a little sad...how mysterious would a world with 4 suns be ^^.have to look deeper into this.and although the existence of sun dogs does not automatically disproof the multiple sun theory it is far more likely and logic...curious name to call it sun dog, helios canis or so o0.
also thank you for not considering me to be an complete idiot for holding every theory as possible as the next one as long as not falsified!


For some reason the idea of a "hidden sun" and a "hidden part of the Earth" made me think of the very early Pythagoreans and their model for the Solar system ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythag...nomical_system ) with a hidden "Anti-Earth" (or "Counter-Earth") and the universe spinning around an Axis of a Central Fire (which is not the visible sun, though the visible Sun reflects the light of this fire)...

hearing things like this subconsciously always have to think of hitlers or rather himmlers SS.many donīt know that the SS stands for Schwarze Sonne or black sun, which is believed to be some esoteric agenda regarding an inner earth sun giving of electricity not warmth as the normal sun is supposed to...it is said that this black su is the heat/light/power source for the inner earth inhabitants of shambala(positive good) and agartha(negative evil).people like nikolas röhrig and his himmalaya expeditions tie into this.
no idea if the nazis used pythagoras for their thesis but i find them strangely similar


the idea of the Axis of Central Fire

microcosm = macrocosm if there truly would be a axis of central/inner fire in the universe it would not be to far fetched to assume that there would also be a inner axis of fire inside planets

Awani
05-26-2016, 02:08 PM
thank you for not considering me to be an complete idiot for holding every theory as possible

Neither do I. And I agree that every theory is possible. The main purpose of me creating this thread in the first place was because I have been debating this topic on other forums, on facebook and elsewhere for a while now. I wanted to debate it on "home turf" so to speak.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-26-2016, 02:45 PM
thank you dev very kind of you!it is not that I feel sad or something when somebody disagrees with me but just that I automatically "defend" myself in such situations so sryy for maybe coming of a bit strong in this regard.one of my flaws I achieved in this society surrounded by people who look at you as if you are crazy or satan himself if you mention things like alchemy,spirituality,conspiracies etc. got to get used to the fact that this seems to be a haven for intellectual misfits as I am sure society would view this community...the rest will think we are all old men with long beards trying to make gold out of rocks in dark basements XD.

Awani
05-26-2016, 03:17 PM
Well you got to use stealth when talking to normal people. But personally I like the look on their face. Just today I told a co-worker I am going to a conference in Romania about consciousness. She laughed at the idea and did not really understand why one would do such a weird thing. I laughed back.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-26-2016, 03:31 PM
XD true I learned the stealth thing early on...only problem being I neither want to lie nor do I feel ashamed for my opinions so I always have an urge to just be open with people...but we all know where that would lead to XD

each time I hear anything of Romania I think about wanting to visit the castle of Vlad Tepes which is said to not only be haunted(tourist catch) but also send of very strange energies and vibrations and that one should never spend the night alone in the subterranean rooms of the castle ^^

always thought Romania to be one of the most "magical" parts of europe with if I am correct the biggest forest of europe...Romania must have many spots where modern men have never said foot on,adventure ^^

Awani
05-26-2016, 03:38 PM
Romania is amazing. Beautiful. Backpacked once for a month. But be sure to go to the real castle. There is a fake one "Bran" that all the tourists go to. I followed the trail of Vlad Tepes when I was there. In fact that was the reason I went.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-26-2016, 03:40 PM
just awesome!

zoas23
05-26-2016, 06:58 PM
hearing things like this subconsciously always have to think of hitlers or rather himmlers SS.many donīt know that the SS stands for Schwarze Sonne or black sun, which is believed to be some esoteric agenda regarding an inner earth sun giving of electricity not warmth as the normal sun is supposed to...it is said that this black su is the heat/light/power source for the inner earth inhabitants of shambala(positive good) and agartha(negative evil).people like nikolas röhrig and his himmalaya expeditions tie into this.
no idea if the nazis used pythagoras for their thesis but i find them strangely similar

The Nazis used a lot of symbolism that came from Rosicrucian traditions (i.e, if you compare the most known symbols of Nazism and the Zelator grade of an Order like the Golden Dawn... then it's obvious that the symbols are mostly the same ones... even if the ideologies were in direct opposition).

And whilst he was not the first to talk about the "hollow earth", I do believe that the fiction book "The Forthcoming Race" by Bulwer Lytton was probably one of their main sources to get obsessed with the hollow earth... but they were reading a sci-fi book as in a very literal way... which is quite a silly thing to do.

I've had the luck of meeting the family/descendents of that freak who invented the SS... and I use the word "luck" because talking to them I saw how they despised Nazism, racism and Himmler (I never planned to meet them, it's just by chance that his grand-daughter and I were friends when both of us were teens, we have the same age... and after a year of friendship, she told me who was his infamous grand-father and how such thing was a shame for her). It was interesting for me to see how this man and his ideology was even hated by his direct descendents.

JinRaTensei
05-28-2016, 06:44 PM
I've had the luck of meeting the family/descendents of that freak who invented the SS... and I use the word "luck" because talking to them I saw how they despised Nazism, racism and Himmler

the sin of the father is the salvation for the son,psychologically speaking it is actually not very surprising but expected to a certain degree.
classically speaking your female friend will despise and distance herself so much from her heritage that this in itself can become a equal fanaticism which will lead her children in the opposite direction of their mother what would be back to something like racism/nazism..that is why such "things" are believed to often jump one generation.if the negative energy dwelling up at the root is not dealt with but just avoided this cycle will continue until finally one descendant sacrifices him/herself to take on that energy and break the cycle....which is what we call karma,the great wheel.
I hope your friend can find a way to make peace with her heritage somehow, maybe it would help her to know that her grandfather Heinrich probably was as pure and honest in his beliefs and justifications than she might be herself,simplisticly spoken one hates all jews the other hates all nazis just their circumstance and narrative are different.

have you seen the two Hellboy movies? not many modern movies out there with so much symbolism and outright retelling of "hidden history" it is also quite telling in those movies that the nazis opened a portal to talk/summon Cthulhu just like AC is said to have done only a few years earlier.
also in this regard the figure Rasputin appears often as well whom I find deeply fascinating but never found a single piece of his work if there even is published literature of him....maybe the fact that he has his "legend" without having published credits him in some way more than others who have no problem seemingly to throw it all out there...for money ^^

Andro
05-28-2016, 07:20 PM
the other hates all nazis

Just a small off-topic historical interjection: The term 'nazi' is a western propaganda fabrication, marketed as an abbreviation which was NOT used in Germany in that period. This term simply did not exist in Germany at that time. The ruling party before and during WW2 was initially called DAP (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei), then changed to NSDAP ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" or in English "National Socialist German Workers Party") and shortly referred to as "National Socialist". For the record.

History is always written (or re-written) by the victors. People such as Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, etc sucked just as much. Same crap, different MO. And don't even get me started on Stalin's genocide and uber-racist America in the 30's and 40's.

Also, like JRT said, AC apparently attempted similar things for a different organization.

Awani
05-28-2016, 07:37 PM
Good point. As well as the "fact" that the road to Auschwitz was paved with US dollars (as well as Hitler's war machine).

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/maxresdefault_zpsdnseiztv.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-28-2016, 07:58 PM
Just a small off-topic historical interjection: The term 'nazi' is a western propaganda fabrication, marketed as an abbreviation which was NOT used in Germany in that period. This term simply did not exist in Germany at that time. The ruling party before and during WW2 was initially called DAP (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei), then changed to NSDAP ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" or in English "National Socialist German Workers Party") and shortly referred to as "National Socialist". For the record.

true,nobody knows better than someone who grew up in the german school system like I have as well.there was literally almost no two months which could pass without we being reminded that germans are the biggest and only scum on this planet and that we all are there descendants...shame on us ^^.

I also like to mention that todays so called heroes portrayed in movies like Troja or Alexander the Great or Dschengis Khan have killed many more its just that like Andro mentions the victor writes the history...so Hitlers fault basically was that he lost.. or just like dev mentions IG Farben and Bush senior/Bush seniors father
are the ones who made WW2 possible...it is even said that no german tank,plane or ship could even move without a special additive to the petrol from IG Farben....but than again do we even have heroes without blood on their hands? mother Theresa is believed to have let the ill suffer unimaginable pain and living conditions because she believed it would purify the soul,Mahatma Ghandi was believed to be controlled british opposition,the Dalai Lama does nothing much about chinas invasion but lives himself in luxus and travels regularly to meet so called banksters,the pope(former) had to lay down his office because of "rumors" about pedophilia...our true heroes seem to be the unsung,the ones in the shadows.evil lurks not just in the dark but baths in the limelight.

Awani
05-28-2016, 08:04 PM
That is why I keep saying that the message is more important than the messenger. Everyone has skeletons in the closet, and even some of those skeletons might not be true. Unless you are the individual in question there is no way to know.

Try to be your own hero. Inspiration from others is never bad, but there is no reason to put faith in anything else than direct personal experience. Everything else is hearsay.

IMO.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-28-2016, 09:07 PM
true dev but I think this only regards towards messages which you can inherit into your own,which can be used as way for introspection but what about "neutral" messages like I tried to elaborate before where not the message but the messenger is the most vital part of information.

JinRaTensei: I love you
zoas23: I love you
your spouse: I love you

here for instance,imo, the messenger would be what sets the last message worlds apart from the previous two

Ghislain
05-29-2016, 12:13 PM
I have not been following this thread for a few days so I apologise if it has moved on a bit, but I would like to address your post #22 JinRaTensei.

You made a lot of points and I can see your argument, but also the mistakes we make in the assumption that there is no data, or less research into some of the ideas put forward in the scientific community. I am not qualified to answer your questions, but I am sure the information is out there to do just that.

If I were to try to explain how to add 1+1 to an ant I would get very frustrated, and I am sure some scientists feel that way when trying to put some of their theories into layman's terms for the average person and most of us would argue that 1+1 does in fact equal 2.



If I were to go into my beliefs at this present time they would seem very outrageous to most if not all of my friends and, as has been mentioned by others in this thread, I don't disregard the possibility of anything, although I give less weight to some ideas than others.

The tool we use to weigh up the possibilities or probabilities of a theory has a limited capacity, or at least mine does, I don't want to speak for others, and as such I/we may not be able see a whole picture.

Just to bring that home I include a picture below of Trinity College Library, Ireland...one of many such libraries around the world...How much information/data is not even present on these shelves?

http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image/public/trinity-college-ireland.jpg

What one has to ask is "how much do I not know or what may I have missed?"

Below is a fake conclusion...can you see what was missed?

http://www.amazingvijay.com/Proof1Eq2.png

I think most, decent, scientists today would be the first to admit that they don't know enough.

Below is a YouTube video in favour of the Flat Earth Theory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qer1KF6epB8

Below is a YouTube video in favour of a Spherical Earth Theory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GD9gXzUBk

It is for this reason that I, and I am sure many people, keep an open mind to all possibilities, but at each stage of my evolution I try to bring together what I think I know and formulate that into what I believe in the present time, and a Flat Earth it isn't ;)

Ghislain

Archangel
05-30-2016, 12:47 AM
How about a hollow earth complete with civilization. Too far fetched? Take a look.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIYJAcib1iQ
Thoughts?

Ghislain
05-30-2016, 04:01 AM
About the same as the Flat Earth theory.

I was going to do a trip to the North Pole, but it was far too expensive. The cheapest I could find was Ģ16k. :(

Ghislain

Ghislain
05-30-2016, 04:36 AM
There is so much out there that perhaps there is some truth hidden among the garbage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNUG7WHVJq8

Ghislain

Ghislain
05-30-2016, 10:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GMCyrqsyYA

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
05-30-2016, 10:45 AM
funny thing just thrown in here if the conversation has moved to the antarctic/poles.

Hitler founded a "second" germany in the antarctic called "Neu Schwabenland" not only is this very well documented but what many donīt know is that to this day the german identification card/ passport is not bound to the laws and area of Germany but of "Neu Schwabenland" inofficially most germans today are not citizens of Germany but of some place in the antarctic.this is done to fool the german people into believing that they have rights and that the "Besatzungsstatut" (contract of the allies at the end of WW2 for the reparations and rules Germany has to obey in the future) has ended when in fact the opposite is true.

this is also the reason why the USA and all other countries leaders are hot for Germany.Because Germany is the only country in the world where its citizens have no rights,no constitution and can be treated like cattle.

Ghislain seen your post yesterday and will respond to it later,feeling that I have not yet thought about some things you mention enough to reply without being dissatisfied myself ^^

Andro
05-30-2016, 11:58 AM
Can you suggest any documentation/references about all this?


Hitler founded a "second" Germany in the antarctic called "Neu Schwabenland" not only is this very well documented but what many donīt know is that to this day the German identification card/ passport is not bound to the laws and area of Germany but of "Neu Schwabenland" unofficially most Germans today are not citizens of Germany but of some place in the antarctic. This is done to fool the germane people into believing that they have rights and that the "Besatzungsstatut" (contract of the allies at the end of WW2 for the reparations and rules Germany has to obey in the future) has ended when in fact the opposite is true.

this is also the reason why the USA and all other countries leaders are hot for Germany.Because Germany is the only country in the world where its citizens have no rights,no constitution and can be treated like cattle.

JinRaTensei
05-30-2016, 12:13 PM
not of the top of my head because there are so many I have watched but I will look for a good one in the course of today! but just by typing "Neuschwabenland" into youtube you will find a trail which should lead you to what you want to know,but I assume you are a German,too? because this being a "german topic" there are many researchers who have published there findings in the german language.
also if you look up RuStaG or general the laws before 1945 and before 1920 "Reichsverfassung" you can find the exact paragraphs which state the founding of "Neuschwabenland" if you look at old passports from before 1945 you can find to which area they legally relate to.

But like I said I will look up the exact places to find this since for myself I also should keep the exact reference for quoting purposes ^^

Andro
05-30-2016, 12:17 PM
I will look up the exact places to find this.

Thanks. Either German or English language is fine.

Ghislain
05-30-2016, 02:02 PM
There is a Wiki article about Neuschwabenland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Swabia)

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
05-30-2016, 02:25 PM
http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/wunderwaffen.html this is also a good site but in the german language o0

I have been looking for the last hours but it has become very hard to find information relating to the german passport being a document of validation for the "Reichsgebiet" (state territory ) NSL.

No problems finding several articles stating that NSL is a part of Germany just like Berlin is.also no problem finding information regarding Germany not being a sovereign country and that Germany has no constitution just a "Grundgesetz"

But to find the "juicy part" about NSL being declared the lawfully "place holder" until the german people give themselves a democratically voted "peace treaty"
I can not find without re-watching.

so forgive me it will take a little more time,at max until tomorrow morning since currently I have no desire to do so anymore at this moment ^^.(not that I would be forced to do so just that I want to keep true to what I promise)

Andro
05-30-2016, 02:33 PM
Thank you very much! No rush!

Like I said, German language is fine :)... English also.


http://www.kheichhorn.de/html/wunderwaffen.html this is also a good site but in the German language o0

I have been looking for the last hours but it has become very hard to find information relating to the German passport being a document of validation for the "Reichsgebiet" (state territory ) NSL.

No problems finding several articles stating that NSL is a part of Germany just like Berlin is.also no problem finding information regarding Germany not being a sovereign country and that Germany has no constitution just a "Grundgesetz"

But to find the "juicy part" about NSL being declared the lawfully "place holder" until the German people give themselves a democratically voted "peace treaty".
I can not find without re-watching.

So forgive me it will take a little more time, at max until tomorrow morning since currently I have no desire to do so anymore at this moment ^^.(not that I would be forced to do so just that I want to keep true to what I promise)

Awani
05-30-2016, 06:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

:cool:

JinRaTensei
05-31-2016, 11:34 AM
Andro

I have finally at least found one old youtube vid which gives the paragraphs and reasons(shaef laws) to look up why germany is still no free country,simply spoken the reason(one of many) he states is that Germany never has been fully defeated/occupied and thereby all the contracts and agreements we as the people have currently to fulfill are void because it does not enclose the whole "Deutsche Reich" since NeuSchwabenland is officially also part of the German Kingdom to this day.

the video is fairly short and in the german language so I apologize for anybody else with no german tongue who wants to look these things up as well...but after spending almost 6 hours looking for the (many) sources I found just a few years ago I had to realize that they all have been "lost" or deleted...not saying that this is a government orchestrated disinfo campaign...but it smells fishy,imo ^^


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0nuv7zJ_w

Andro
05-31-2016, 02:17 PM
Thank you, JTR! Much appreciated!

There's actually quite a bit of info in German about those issues, when I start inputting the 'right' search words...

Different and refreshing angles, compared to the usual English-speaking 'conspiracy nomenclature' :)

One other small example (for German speakers): https://vimeo.com/103835622

JinRaTensei
05-31-2016, 03:51 PM
Andro

thx very much! I will gladly watch the vid later :)


There's actually quite a bit of info in German about those issues, when I start inputting the 'right' search words...

true and I also found many many sources but I did not find anything else mentioning the NSL thing being the reason for the current invalidity of the german government,just many sources elaborating other angles which tie into this...but naturally it could also be very well the case that your way of searching is just more efficient than mine XD

Awani
06-16-2016, 03:36 PM
I would love to understand why this is wrong (which I am sure Flat Earth folks say is utterly false): Spherical Geometry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_geometry)

:cool:

Andro
06-18-2016, 04:17 AM
History is always written (or re-written) by the victors.

Not only history, but 'science' as well. (math, geography, physics, etc...)

Perception and/or public opinion is MUCH easier to manipulate than most people would think.

If someone states a claim as FACT, simply ask them: "HOW do you know?" and observe the answer. It will be hilarious in many cases and almost Never A Straight Answer (the initials of NASA :)).

Andro
06-18-2016, 04:31 AM
http://www.amazingvijay.com/Proof1Eq2.png

You have posted that one before. The moment you subtract a from b or b from a, a and b being equal, the whole equation is reduced to zero because you start multiplying by zero.

More skilled 'math technicians' can plant bugs that I'm sure are a bit more difficult to notice for the layman.

Awani
06-18-2016, 08:36 AM
If someone states a claim as FACT, simply ask them: "HOW do you know?" and observe the answer. It will be hilarious in many cases and almost Never A Straight Answer (the initials of NASA :)).
Good description of every Flat Earther that opens its mouth from my experience. Selective reasoning and logical fallacies.

Another common trait amongs this group: ignorance + bliss = fact

I actually considered that the Earth was possibly flat/dome till I started listening to Flat Earth fanatics (that's is how they reason). Now I am dead certain the Earth is "coded" as is viewed by the masses, thanks to their "proof" that sounds more like 'spoof'.

:cool:

Andro
06-18-2016, 09:24 AM
Good description of every Flat Earther that opens its mouth from my experience. Selective reasoning and logical fallacies.

Same description applies to many globbers as well.


Another common trait among this group: ignorance + bliss = fact

And how is it for the 'other' group?


I started listening to Flat Earth fanatics (that's is how they reason).

Then listen to honest, genuine researchers and not to fanatics, on both/all sides.

And make sure you don't resort to 'selective reasoning' and/or logical fallacies either. Very few are immune, no matter on which 'side' they currently stand.

Awani
06-18-2016, 09:27 AM
Honestly I think it is a waste of time. I have just entertained the concept because I have always been fascinated by tunnel vision groups.

In our version of the VR the Earth is coded spherically. It fits the math. Regardless of my view of dogmatic science, math is the best tool we have. The only thing that can help us understand and invent our world.

IMO.

:cool:

JinRaTensei
06-18-2016, 01:08 PM
In our version of the VR the Earth is coded spherically. It fits the math. Regardless of my view of dogmatic science, math is the best tool we have.

Does it really? I am neither a "flat earther" nor a "globe model defender" but I know exactly how you feel about the topic if you have not dived deeper into this specific subject. Many flat earth material and presenter are there for no other reason than to disinform and to spread bogus arguments. The best example is the so called "flat earth society" which if I am correct you also had one of them on NBA.
Beside the point, nobody voted or accepted them to be the mouth piece for this movement they just validated themselves into place and curiously enough got the most mainstream recognition which to me is a first big red flag.

There are many examples and pointers which do not fit math as we are taught. The curvature of the earth is one example and if this example holds truth it is enough.

There are many independent sources which have made laser, telescope and other experiments over distances of 50-200 miles and still could see and proof that they saw objects in that distance which should be far below the horizon. ( The curvature of the earth is supposed to be about 8 inches per mile according to mainstream science)
And when I say many, specifically in the German community, I mean I have seen dozens of different sources which I deemed credible in other subjects.
Now one can say they are frauds or made mistakes but the same can be said about anything which one has not validated oneself.

But there are also sources which mainstream media seems to have a hard time to debunk so they go with the official statement that those objects seen in the distance are mirrages of water/air vapor like one can see on a hot street. And most people just accept this.

If one goes with this explanation than everything can simply be a mirrage. It does not seem to matter that the various sources obviously had various different weather conditions in various different locations. It does not seem to matter that these mirrages never express themselves in other fields of day to day life.
It seems like a copout to me. But than again I have not made my own experiments so anybody who wants to dismiss those sources will and likewise if I want to accept those sources I will. There is solid "proof" for both but also solid postulates which can not be explained for both.

Another example which ties directly into this is our model of space, which is supposed to be a vacuum contrary to many "flat earth followers" who believe that space is superfluid helium4.
A very simple question which I like anybody who has a definite position on anything in this matter to answer is.
How do rockets, with advanced jet fuel engines, work in a vacuum without air for any burning process.
More "stuborn" people will say the rockets start on earth and just use the velocity/lack of athmospheric resitance to continue flying through space.
Those people I like to ask: " Than how do the rockets come back from space, how do they "start" without any air.

I do not know the answer for this and I do not want to "hit" people with it to feel I am in the right. But I really do not know how to explain this and would like to know.

As for some mathematical concepts which are lost in complexicity I can not address them directly because my mind does not express in numbers and thereby I am really "bad" at anything regarding math. ( Although my "bad" would still suffice to "outreach" most peoples understanding of math but still would be a absolute joke to anybody who is deeply involved in it)

Just a side note. I believe that every system which is inherent complex is also flawed by its nature. Because with a higher grade of understanding things become simpler and not complexer. Everything strives towards love and freedom just like the lead strives towards becoming gold. For math to be what it is today I believe it is not what math could or should be and that we in our dualistic,materialistic nature are missing some vital aspects of this.
But again this is only my opinion.

Ghislain
06-18-2016, 10:16 PM
JinRaTensei you say "There is solid "proof"", what solid proof is this?

Rockets burn fuel the same as explosives, the fuel contains its own oxygen supply. Remember these are rocket engines not jet engines.

I think the simplest mathematical proof is the fact that two lines drawn equally from a third line at right angles (90 degrees) do not create parallel lines on a sphere.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Sphere_closed_path.svg/225px-Sphere_closed_path.svg.png

However they do on a flat surface.

http://www.mstworkbooks.co.za/mathematics/gr7/Maths_English_LG_gr7_term1-web-resources/image/48174.png

You also said "with a higher grade of understanding things become simpler and not complexer." I wrote a thread to indicate how simplicity does in fact become very complex, you may like to peruse that.

The answer to a question you may never ask (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3802-The-answer-to-a-question-you-may-never-ask)

Ghislain

JinRaTensei
06-18-2016, 10:46 PM
Ghislain

Thx for your input, I will have to take some time to look into the things you mention but since math is everything but my forte of choice and your thread on first view seems to be going quite deep into it, I doubt I will be able to give anything else but an reactive superficial answer regarding that.
And still without looking at it I am "quite sure" that both perspectives, increasing simplicity and/or increasing complexity can be valid...or that you are wrong XD.

If we agree that math is "bound" by the same hermetic principles by which everything else is bound in this reality than increasing simplicity is, imo, the "right" answer at least for me.But I will gladly take the "challenge" to proof myself wrong and expand on my own knowledge...but again I am pretty sure I am right regarding this one XD.



the fuel contains its own oxygen supply

Likewise like your asking for "my" "solid proof" I would really appreciate to see your sources on this, it does not need to be solid ^^.
I am curious how this works, how they store the extra oxygen, if it fits with the space/ballast a rocket can take on its trip.

Please donīt missunderstand I do not doubt your expertise or honesty but I would "need" more than "just" your word on this like you would need more than mine regarding other matters.

JinRaTensei
06-18-2016, 11:47 PM
Btw just a little side note while trying to fully grasp your thread regarding ram. Fascinating how your mind operates XD. It is not that I do not or could not "understand" what you write but still even if I "understand" I will never "understand" XD

Ghislain
06-18-2016, 11:47 PM
Nitrates contain a lot of oxygen, by combining potassium nitrate (Saltpeter) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltpeter_(disambiguation))with a carbon base fuel you have gunpowder...you can add a little sulphur to aid in its ignition. For the carbon to burn it gets it oxygen from the saltpeter and thus it can be placed in an airtight container where it will burn and expand, thus you create a bomb.

I am sorry but rocket fuel is not my forte, but i am sure you will find it uses the same principle.

I included the graphics in the post above to visually explain what you may not understand mathematically

Ghislain

Edit: please excuse my crude explanation, but it is way past my bedtime.

Awani
08-11-2016, 12:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5lHUcZQyLE

:cool:

Archangel
08-16-2016, 02:20 AM
I have seen more and more references to this flat earth thing lately. More and more are supporting it. Zen Garcia and Rob Akiba have quite a bit to say on the topic, among others. I do not buy it but I haven't done much research either. I just notice there is more and more of this now, and I wonder why? Why now?? Are people mad? Is it some grand delusion? Why this trend of flat earth...something that was believed centuries ago...then later proven wrong by Copurnicus, Galileo, DaVinci, and modern rockets....why is it resurfacing? Or are those who say we never got to the moon right?? And all of the footage from space depicting round planets and moons...is that a hoax or truth?

solomon levi
08-30-2016, 05:51 PM
Greetings! I was about to post something about flat earth and alchemy and saw this thread. I don't really care about whether the earth is flat or a globe or coming to any conclusions or arguing about it. What i wanted to share is how much flat earth seems to correspond with alchemy. Here's an interesting video i happened across recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg2deAEhoF4

Dwellings
08-30-2016, 06:26 PM
Greetings! I was about to post something about flat earth and alchemy and saw this thread. I don't really care about whether the earth is flat or a globe or coming to any conclusions or arguing about it. What i wanted to share is how much flat earth seems to correspond with alchemy. Here's an interesting video i happened across recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg2deAEhoF4

I cannot believe that some of you people are falling for the Discredit by Association hoax that is Flat Earth.
Same is the case for the fraud Mandela effect.

Andro
08-30-2016, 06:47 PM
What I wanted to share is how much flat earth seems to correspond with alchemy.

Very much so, IMO.

JinRaTensei
08-30-2016, 06:51 PM
Dwellings

If you learn to read properly you no longer need to believe and can experience knowing. Please show me a single person in this forum who "fell for this" and is not just entertaining an idea without bias.
Since you seem to enjoy telling people what to think please tell me how you know they are hoaxes and please tell me the names of the idiots who fell for this...thank god we got you :)

Ghislain
08-31-2016, 08:20 AM
What i wanted to share is how much flat earth seems to correspond with alchemy.

Sol, could you expand on that?

The way this guy explains about the clockwise or anticlockwise high pressures of his graphical drawing works exactly the same
if the earth was flat or if it was a spinning globe.

He talks of great lakes having no tide because they are fresh water, but fails to mention that the Mediterranean Sea has no tide and it is salt water.

The mathematics of the forces of gravity and how they effect the earth are complicated and it is people who don't want to do the math that come up with
alternative theories as to what is happening; where is their math. The thing is there are probably many scientists throughout the years who have done the math
on these very same theories.

If the moon and the sun effect the earth, which I do not deny, where was the mention of Jupiter, Saturn and all the other planets in his explanation.

I think the science of today may have it right or how would they put up geostationary satellites and the likes, which we use every day.

Having said all of this I am sure science would say that there are effects from electro-magetic fields...just not something I have looked into, but
is this guy denying gravity?

That is just my non-mathematical slant on the issue ;)



Ghislain

Edit: This is just for the thread and not in reply to Sol's post. If the earth is flat, which land masses are closest to the edge, and if we are in a country close to one edge does that mean we would
have to travel right across the world to get to a country on an opposite edge?

Awani
09-03-2016, 12:19 AM
I guess its the south pole that is the edges and the north pole that is the center. Personally I have come to the point in my life where all these matters are utterly irrelevant and serve me (personally) nothing at all. Not just Flat Earth, but most so-called conspiracy theories.

All I need to know (which I have known most of my life) is that all governments are liars and murderers. That is all you need to know. All else is fluff.

What is important is the journey of the self. If focus is placed on all this exterior fluff "they" win. ;)

:cool:

Ghislain
09-03-2016, 06:07 AM
Should you not change the sub forum names to just two then, "Journey of the self" and "fluff"? ;)

What would a world be like if everyone only focused on self?

Example 1: I could make my living burning old car tyres as there is a great demand for their disposal. No one would stop me as they are focused on self.

Example 2: Would everyone need to build their own roads?

The list of examples could go on and on, but I hope I made my point.


Ghislain

Awani
09-04-2016, 12:12 AM
What would a world be like if everyone only focused on self?

Utopia.

Because by "self" I don't mean egoism, but the pursuit of peace of mind.

:cool:

Ghislain
09-04-2016, 10:24 AM
As you know Dev I argue for Utopia, but I get a lot of flack for doing that.

I agree the world would be a better place if we could all seek peace of mind, but <-there is that but again :(
we still need to do the housekeeping so to speak; just have to find the right housekeepers.

Ghislain

solomon levi
09-08-2016, 06:04 PM
Hi Ghislain. I don't really care to expand. It's just multiple times when I've been doing research on flat earth I'm having "deja-vu" of stuff i read from alchemists or the symbols they use... almost like they were trying to insinuate a flat earth too. Sometimes it seems they're trying to expose the money illusion and bankers as well. :) Maybe it's just the whole principle of correspondence leaking into every aspect of life. :)

Ghislain
09-08-2016, 07:31 PM
Would this be a quick answer to flat or round earth?

In the round earth scenario we fire a green lazer perpendicular from the vertical Red Tower to
the Black Tower then we fire a blue lazer perpendicular from the black tower from the point the
green lazer hits and toward the Red Tower. If the earth is round the blue lazer will not return to
the point where the green lazer was fired from.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=946

However in the flat earth scenario the blue lazer will return to exactly the same spot.

http://forum.alchemyforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=945

QED

Ghislain

Ghislain
09-29-2016, 12:03 PM
Just another log for the fire... ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdFqK1wTx0A

At around 31:30 there is an interesting piece on the inaccuracies of the world map, and straight
after this is a lecture on the Antarctic Treaty; which seems a little strict.

Ghislain

Awani
09-29-2016, 01:29 PM
It will be hard to cover shit up if it is indeed flat once the space elevator tech becomes reality... or space tourism... although I guess there are already hobby rocket folks and I guess it is only a matter of time before they put a camera on one of them... or boosters on a drone...

With the 9/11 conspiracy there is no end date... with history there will never be a 100 % truth answer... but with Flat Earth, well there is an end date. So in our lives, or in the lives of our offspring, there will be the option to go into space and look back on Earth. So if it is a sphere or flat... well we will know soon enough.

What will then happen? One of the following:

Flat Earth people will go: told you so OR damn we wasted ten years on this crap
Sphere people will go: oh, wow... didn't expect that OR yeah it's round, what's new?

;)

:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
09-29-2016, 06:37 PM
It will be hard to cover shit up if it is indeed flat once the space elevator tech becomes reality... or space tourism... although I guess there are already hobby rocket folks and I guess it is only a matter of time before they put a camera on one of them... or boosters on a drone...

Amateurs have been successfully using miniature radio satellites for decades...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_satellite


Students have launched go-pro cameras from rockets, as well as balloons...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWp4suB60fg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAifzh7_-cg

Awani
09-29-2016, 06:41 PM
Yes well Flat Earth folks will just say those videos are made by CIA NASA agents, or that any curvature is lens created. ;)

:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
09-29-2016, 06:57 PM
Yes well Flat Earth folks will just say those videos are made by CIA NASA agents, or that any curvature is lens created. ;)

:cool:

I believe in anti-gravity, extraterrestrials, overunity tech, and secret gov't space programs.

But the flat earth stuff boggles my mind.

Awani
09-29-2016, 07:05 PM
If any conspiracy is worth investing time in I think it is the one that allows apathy into the mind of the individual concerning the fact that we - in the West - allow children and other human beings and creatures to suffer in ways we can only dream so we can keep our level of comfort intact.

:cool:

ExtraEgo
10-18-2016, 09:00 PM
Somebody should notify the Flat Earth Society that Eratosthenes calculated the radius of the Earth with an error of about 0.16% in 3rd century BC.

Very well said dev, although We - in the West - not only allow, but are frequently causing the mentioned suffering to raise our level of comfort... I am certain that there is a law of conservation of energy that will induce suffering to those who have reached highest levels of comfort, even though this suffering is not of the same kind.

Andro
10-18-2016, 09:08 PM
My biggest question was: "How the hell she manages to run a worldwide company, a bank, believing that the Earth is flat?????".

Apparently because believing it's a ball won't get you that far :) :) :)

zoas23
10-19-2016, 12:42 AM
Apparently because believing it's a ball won't get you that far :) :) :)

Well, some ideas are "false", but still give excellent results.

I believe that a future physics paradigm will show that the Earth is NOT an irregular round sphere... I am talking about something that it would be the equivalent of Einstein's physics (which are not the ultimate truth) showing the mistakes of Newtonian physics.

And yet the Newtonian physics work very well for practical matters: i.e, if you are a car designer, then you can design a car by using Newtonian physics and you can completely ignore the ideas of Einstein, since you don't need them to calculate quite well how fast your car will be able to run.

Same thing happens to logistics: the ONLY theory I know that "works" well when it comes to logistics is the "irregular sphere" (even if physics in the future show that it's a pyramid that we perceive as a sphere due to a strange curvature of space-time). So it's somehow surprising for me to see how this woman managed to run a company in which logistics matter and believed that the Earth is flat (a theory that does not "work" if you think about the worldwide logistics of a big company).

Awani
10-20-2016, 12:08 AM
"How the hell she manages to run a worldwide company, a bank, believing that the Earth is flat?????".

I once called a guy that gave money to a children's charity with the aim of trying to get him to donate more. I told him about the "stop hitting kids" work the charity he was supporting was doing... but he said he disagreed, and that "hitting kids was fine"... best way to raise them. Yet he wanted to continue giving money.

There is no evidence in the illogical behaviour of monkey people.

Also those people... the so-called Elite... bankers... those people are idiots, liars and murderers. They've got nothing. So if they believe the Earth is flat or round, doesn't matter. All that speak are lies.

:cool:

zoas23
10-20-2016, 12:44 AM
I once called a guy that gave money to a children's charity with the aim of trying to get him to donate more. I told him about the "stop hitting kids" work the charity he was supporting was doing... but he said he disagreed, and that "hitting kids was fine"... best way to raise them. Yet he wanted to continue giving money.

There is no evidence in the illogical behaviour of monkey people.

Also those people... the so-called Elite... bankers... those people are idiots, liars and murderers. They've got nothing. So if they believe the Earth is flat or round, doesn't matter. All that speak are lies.

:cool:

Yeah, that's right. In her case, she was simply a person who inherited a bank that worked world-wide (it does no longer exist, her heirs sold it to another bank when she died and the other bank "merged" it with other banks) and she wasn't specially clever. Though I guess that if you have billions, then you don't need to be incredibly clever to manage a bank.

Weird fact: my house is decorated with a lot of her furniture (his nieces were close to me and when she died they wanted to sell her house as to divide it among all the heirs... and nobody wanted her furniture, which was a problem to sell the house, so they offered me to take whatever I wanted). So some of the furniture at my house may make someone think that I am a conservative rich old lady :confused:

Then again, you are right... with the success that mr. Trump is having, I would not be surprised if a strict "creationist" (American style) becomes one day the president of the USA... and probably a "creationist" would do the job just as well as a George Bush Jr. did it... Having a brain is not important for some issues.

Though I was simply surprised by the fact that she had to run a company in which logistics were important and her mind worked with a paradigm that does not "work" when you have to think logistically (then again, the kings of Spain managed to pillage America very well and for almost a decade they thought that that were stealing from India).

ArcherSage
12-22-2016, 04:15 PM
I am not a flat earther, however the shadow effect that Eratosthenes discovered can be achieved in a flat plane setting as well. With a flat plane you can put sticks in the ground, and they will all have different length of shadows even with a sun directly in the center overhead, depending on the location of the objects.
http://www.sciencemusings.com/blog/uploaded_images/Erat2B-710882.jpg

Voltaire
12-22-2016, 08:18 PM
the "flat earth theory" is a perfect example of misdirection.

the earth isn't flat, anyone saying so is a plant, or has been fooled.

it's all just trying to hide 'Hollow earth theory'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWHqooAJtM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZMu3gJfXIQ

Awani
12-23-2016, 04:05 AM
...the earth isn't flat, anyone saying so is a plant, or has been fooled... it's all just trying to hide 'Hollow earth theory'

Although The Hollow Earth Theory is just to create conflict between Flat Earth and Hollow Earth people, making them stop looking at Area 51.

:cool:

Voltaire
12-23-2016, 11:39 PM
Although The Hollow Earth Theory is just to create conflict between Flat Earth and Hollow Earth people

Do you mean the flat earth theory is just to create conflict? Or are you saying hollow earth theory was invented to cause conflict?

Hollow earth theory is the one that the NWO believe in, at least some of them do.

Like most gnostic beliefs, I don't think it's all meant to be taken literally, however.

Awani
12-24-2016, 01:47 AM
...the NWO believe in...

I don't believe in the NWO. ;)

:cool:

Voltaire
12-24-2016, 04:40 AM
I don't believe in the NWO. ;)

:cool:


NWO/Illuminati/Zionists/reptilian aliens, whatever you call them - just because you don't believe in something doesn't stop it being true.

and you haven't answered if you can accept Hollow earth theory or not?

Awani
12-24-2016, 11:36 AM
...just because you don't believe in something doesn't stop it being true.

Just because it isn't true doesn't make it true. Just because it is true doesn't make it not true. NWO gets their power from its believers. ;)


...you haven't answered if you can accept Hollow earth theory or not?

And I never will. :)

:cool:

Andro
01-24-2017, 09:51 AM
Recently did an interview with the President of the Flat Earth Society for the podcast (http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com).

I listened to that podcast. That guy is a joke - he can't even properly make/argue his own points. Why choose someone like him?

If you want a coherent and well-researched alternative (non-globber) perspective (even if you don't agree with it), maybe interview someone like Eric Dubai (best to stay on topic and avoid political/religious debates :)).

He'll give you a good 'run for your money' and he also has a recently published, well researched and well presented video HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl8I3l-5ac).

He also won't hesitate to troll back and shoot back memes, if so required :) ...
_____________________

Additionally, here are two images to ponder, even if only for the fun of it:

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Nasa-Earth-2012-2013.jpg

And...

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Earth-Models.jpg

Awani
01-24-2017, 03:23 PM
I listened to that podcast. That guy is a joke - he can't even properly make/argue his own points. Why choose someone like him?

Because he was the leader of an official organisation. I didn't really take it that deep as I am not that interested in it. When I did it the subject was "in fashion" for a few months. It's kind of in the past now.

The new fashionable conspiracy is about Russians, Trump and computers.

:cool:

Andro
01-24-2017, 03:34 PM
The new fashionable conspiracy is about Russians, Trump and computers.

Than maybe a podcast on this is coming soon? :cool:

Awani
01-24-2017, 03:58 PM
No... conspiracy theories is so god damn boring for me. It's so 2001. LOL.

I think this is enough - for me - for the foreseeable future: Episode 87: conspiracy (http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com/episodes/2016/9/11/episode-87-conspiracy)

Actually I've got the most response from this episode, which surprised me.

:cool:

Andro
03-09-2017, 11:35 AM
Short & fun clip from 'Breaking Bad':


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqfgYbLwyCk

Awani
03-09-2017, 03:13 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqfgYbLwyCk

LOL. Yes it is funny.

I also think it comments [intentionally or not] more on how sometimes conpiracy theorists find "proof" in all kinds of sources, thinking there is a "message" by the Reptile Elite Jews that run all media... when in fact it is most often just a sentence written by a script writer that just wants to make a joke or a funny observation.

:cool:

Andro
03-09-2017, 06:46 PM
it is most often just a sentence written by a script writer that just wants to make a joke or a funny observation.

Or is it?

We can't know... but it is a good line, either way...

Awani
03-09-2017, 07:11 PM
Or is it?

I have a friend who has written a few Hollywood scripts, and in one of the films there are some statements made that some conspiracy nut could go haywire over... but I know this person. It's just a writer. Writers are creative. Means nothing IMO.

RANT warning :)

I'm now not talking about this Breaking Bad clip, but in general concerning the whole conspiracy community. They "see" the conspiracy in everything, and as you know you can do that with everything. And when this behaviour is done concerning negative aspects as conspiracies usually are I think it is very unhealthy, and it creates depressed or negative people.

A lot of the pro-conspiracy people I know, or encounter, all seem more angry, sad, depressed, lost, upset, confused, violent and negative than those that laugh at all conpiracies. Laugh not because ignorance is bliss, but because most of the conspiracies (if not all) are usually utterly irrelevant.

It is (and if not should be) a known fact that all governments and politicians and upper class snobs (and people in power) are CUNTS... that is all you need to know. Keep your kids away from them and concentrate on enjoying life, supporting your inherent rights and do some recycling.

:cool:

Andro
03-09-2017, 07:41 PM
do some recycling.

Recycling is not something I care for when it comes to our lives/incarnations.
_________________________________

I have zero interest in fear-mongering conspiracy theories.

I have a lot of interest in the 'mechanics' of the reality we 'inhabit'.

Those two things are not Siamese Twins.

Awani
03-09-2017, 08:34 PM
Those two things are not Siamese Twins.

That is why I wrote "I'm now not talking about this Breaking Bad clip, but in general..."

So if you exclude yourself, and based on my own experience, I would say that they are maybe not Siamese Twins but definetly closely related.


Recycling is not something I care for when it comes to our lives/incarnations.

I meant garbage. It's nicer if all the code is in order and not all over the place...

:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
03-09-2017, 11:18 PM
So if the Earth is flat, does that mean the other planets in our solar system are also flat?

If so, then why are they all perfectly facing the Earth, since they all look like circles in a telescope?

Awani
03-10-2017, 09:45 PM
I've heard many theories: flat, worm holes, peep holes, lamps, portals etc... and also that they are actual round planets... meaning that the Earth is the only thing that's flat.


...then why...

I ask myself that a lot regarding these conspiracies.

:cool:

Aham
03-11-2017, 02:41 AM
If so, then why are they all perfectly facing the Earth, since they all look like circles in a telescope?

Because the earth is at the center of the universe :cool:

Awani
03-11-2017, 01:08 PM
Because the earth is at the center of the universe :cool:

LOL. More like a "white" trash suburb.

:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
03-21-2017, 03:47 AM
Shaquille O’Neal has come out as a flat earther!

https://www.rt.com/sport/381527-earth-is-flat-shaquille-oneal/

Awani
03-21-2017, 01:00 PM
I drive from Florida to California all the time, and it’s flat to me. I do not go up and down at a 360-degree angle.”

Thanks Shaq, now I am convinced. LOL.

I think he does more damage than good to the "cause", at least I would think that if I was a Flat Earther. :)

:cool:

Dendritic Xylem
03-21-2017, 01:11 PM
Yeah, definitely doesn't help with the credibility of the theory.

But I thought this development was entertaining, even if I don't believe the stuff.


Although, if an alien picks me up in a ufo to show me a flat earth....
I probably wouldn't be nearly as surprised as most people. That's not saying much though.

Awani
02-12-2018, 09:35 PM
Yeah yeah yeah Elon Musk is in bed with NASA, and on board with the major conspiracy... whatever...

Regardless I don't think Musk is. Rather he is a "mover"... and the Earth is a globe.

Soon we can all go up and see for ourselves. Thanks Elon.

:p

Awani
03-05-2018, 07:53 PM
https://image.ibb.co/mROHA7/28166481_2022635791329470_4429907832307916563_n.jp g

:p

Andro
05-06-2018, 07:52 PM
https://hermeticvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Flat-Mars.png

Kibric
05-06-2018, 08:22 PM
Elon trying to be funny and not succeeding.
Are you a flat earther Andro ?

Andro
05-06-2018, 08:26 PM
Are you a flat earther Andro?

I can only rely on my own out-of body observations. Not sure about "flat" - but a globe (as per NASA) it ain't :)

What I saw is a much more complex structure that cannot be simplified into "Globe vs Flat".

Kibric
05-06-2018, 08:35 PM
What I saw is a much more complex structure that cannot be simplified into "Globe vs Flat"
care to elaborate ?. I dont astral travel to many parasites i think they're called for me at least.

Awani
05-06-2018, 10:27 PM
What I saw is a much more complex structure that cannot be simplified into "Globe vs Flat".

Theory based on guess work since I have not a direct experience of the kind of astral travel you do: As you have mentioned before you cannot, per se, astral travel to my room and document in great detail exactly how it looks and what is in it... because the astral travel is not a "ghost body" floating around in "reality". Rather it is a sort of interdimensional vibrational liminal journey, where you can see "more" than simply "what is". So... when you see the Earth in an out of body journey, you are not seeing the Earth "as is" in the physical realm... rather an astral vibrational version of it. Thoughts?

:p

Schmuldvich
05-07-2018, 04:50 AM
Theory based on guess work since I have not a direct experience of the kind of astral travel you do: As you have mentioned before you cannot, per se, astral travel to my room and document in great detail exactly how it looks and what is in it... because the astral travel is not a "ghost body" floating around in "reality". Rather it is a sort of interdimensional vibrational liminal journey, where you can see "more" than simply "what is". So... when you see the Earth in an out of body journey, you are not seeing the Earth "as is" in the physical realm... rather an astral vibrational version of it. Thoughts?

Wonderful question!

I, too, wonder the exact same thing (but would care less about the shape of the Earth) about astral projection and understand where you are coming from.

Andro, care to chime in?

Andro
05-07-2018, 08:17 AM
https://youtu.be/dZigAZtpeik?t=1878 (https://youtu.be/dZigAZtpeik?t=1878)

Andro
05-07-2018, 08:48 AM
Some years ago, there was that billionaire guy from Virgin Records/Virgin Airlines (Sir Richard Branson) with his "Virgin Galactic".

Now there's Musk's SpaceX and Bezos' Blue Origin.

Who knows what's next...

If things go well this time, we'll be soon booking flights to Mars, Devon Island, Canada (https://www.google.com/search?q=mars+devon+island) :)

Luxus
05-07-2018, 08:22 PM
All fluids in zero gravity have a natural tendency to form into spheres....so yes the Earth is spherical as is all the other planets in our solar system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s63JXdsL5LU

Amon
05-07-2018, 08:25 PM
I recall the Flat Earth Society claimed to have members all around the globe.

Regardless, if anybody is going to delve into this subject he has to gain a solid grasp of math / geometry as well as physics and then move on to review the proof. The random bits and pieces of knowledge that remain in people's brains from high school education won't be of any use.

And instead of trying to find a solid model for a flat earth, they should be occupied with disproving the globe first, at which they fail at horribly when they begin an argument with "there is no such thing as gravity". When i hear this sentence, my brain gets triggered and is preparing to receive a huge load of incoming non-sense.

Luxus
05-07-2018, 08:38 PM
The whole flat Earth thing was a PSYOP to determine what percentage of the population could be programmed successfully to believe something ridiculous. Such people are useful because you can get them to vote whatever way you want, they will hold opinions you want them to hold. They will fight whatever side you want in a battle, including fighting to destroy their own country and ultimately themselves.

Andro
05-07-2018, 08:52 PM
The whole flat Earth thing was a PSYOP

How do you KNOW this? What do you have to back up this claim? Or alternately, how do you KNOW that the "globe earth" is not in fact the true psyop?

BTW, I've see the "earth" OOB as non-globe long before the whole mass-trend began.

Not that my OOB observations are any ultimate indications, just saying...

All reality is one big psyop, if you ask me... one Great Mind-Fuck :)

JDP
05-07-2018, 08:56 PM
when they begin an argument with "there is no such thing as gravity".

The universal solution for such stubborn, obtuse people is a very simple "experiment": jump off of a cliff!

Andro
05-07-2018, 08:56 PM
When i hear this sentence, my brain gets triggered.

That's the programming you've been subjected to :)

If "your brain gets triggered" - it is only the result of pre-installed programs.

Best to keep a skeptical but open mind. No "triggers" :)

Andro
05-07-2018, 09:02 PM
The universal solution for such stubborn, obtuse people is a very simple "experiment": jump off of a cliff!

Things falling down don't prove "gravity" any more than they prove "the fallen angels". Come on, you can do better than this.

"Gravity" is merely a theoretical model attempting to explain certain observable phenomena. There can (and very likely will) be other models/explanations.

Amon
05-07-2018, 09:05 PM
That's the programming you've been subjected to :)

If "your brain gets triggered" - it is only the result of pre-installed programs.

Best to keep a skeptical but open mind. No "triggers" :)

I guess trigger is not the best word to use. What i mean is, gravity can be generally understood as a force which pulls objects downwards (here on Earth). I saw this video featuring an old lady complaining about environmental issues and at some point she says "Did you know gravity is just a theory?". At this point i went "oh Lord" and understood she has no clue what she is talking about.

Awani
05-07-2018, 09:05 PM
Theory based on guess work since I have not a direct experience of the kind of astral travel you do: As you have mentioned before you cannot, per se, astral travel to my room and document in great detail exactly how it looks and what is in it... because the astral travel is not a "ghost body" floating around in "reality". Rather it is a sort of interdimensional vibrational liminal journey, where you can see "more" than simply "what is". So... when you see the Earth in an out of body journey, you are not seeing the Earth "as is" in the physical realm... rather an astral vibrational version of it. Thoughts?

I prefer to hear it in your own words if you don't mind. :) American Freedom Radio gives me the creeps, a bit like Alex Jones website... if you simply look at the design and the language... it just sounds like some nut job that never got laid, typing pamphlets in his mothers basement. Even if the content is "correct", the presentation is - for my tastes - very "wrong". You CAN judge a book by its cover... you can tell a lot from how "something" is presented. At least in my opinion.

https://preview.ibb.co/cBti8n/Untitled.jpg

:p

Andro
05-07-2018, 09:07 PM
I assume that none of us here has seen the earth (with physical eyes) from above/high up enough to know for certain what it looks like.

Until we can do so, for me, the jury is still out :)

Awani
05-07-2018, 09:09 PM
I assume that none of us here has seen the earth (with physical eyes) from above/high up enough to know for certain what it looks like.

Not sure if anyone shares my opinion, but regarding the question if the Earth is flat, sphere or plane... well my position is that "there is no Earth".

Well there is... but it exists no more than the worlds in Minecraft or GTA V or World of Warcraft exists... until someone pulls the plug, or we unplug. He he...

:p

JDP
05-07-2018, 09:12 PM
Things falling down don't prove "gravity" any more than they prove "the fallen angels". Come on, you can do better than this.

"Gravity" is merely a theoretical model attempting to explain certain observable phenomena. There can (and very likely will) be other models/explanations.

No, because that's just what gravity is: a force which pulls on everything around an object towards the center of that object. You can disagree with the theories devised to explain how gravity works, but you CANNOT deny the EMPIRICAL FACT that gravity does exist. We can easily and plainly observe its action over and over, every single day of our lives.

Andro
05-07-2018, 09:14 PM
I prefer to hear it in your own words if you don't mind. :)Even if the content is "correct", the presentation is - for my tastes - very "wrong". You CAN judge a book by its cover... you can tell a lot from how "something" is presented. At least in my opinion.

The interviewer is not a very smart person, to put it mildly. But great books often DO have shitty covers.

What I saw OOB I prefer to keep to myself. Someone's pre-programmed sensitivities might get "triggered" :)

But the guy in the interview (Bruce Jessup) has views that are (in some ways) similar to mine - on the this topic. Not really a globe, but not as the flat-earthers describe it, either.

He lives in Germany, a few hours drive from Berlin. One day I'll find the time to visit him and compare notes/experiences...

Awani
05-07-2018, 09:14 PM
No, because that's just what gravity is: a force which pulls on everything around an object towards the center of that object. You can disagree with the theories devised to explain how gravity works, but you CANNOT deny the EMPIRICAL FACT that gravity does exist. We can easily and plainly observe its action over and over, every single day of our lives.

Andro: jump off a building...

...then run...

:p

Awani
05-07-2018, 09:16 PM
Someone's pre-programmed sensitivities might get "triggered" :)

https://image.ibb.co/hrSUES/Unknown.jpg

:p

Andro
05-07-2018, 09:20 PM
No, because that's just what gravity is: a force which pulls on everything around an object towards the center of that object. You can disagree with the theories devised to explain how gravity works, but you CANNOT deny the EMPIRICAL FACT that gravity does exist. We can easily and plainly observe its action over and over, every single day of our lives.

There are no empirical facts, only empirical evidence.

Let me teach you an example: A doctor CAN find "no evidence of cancer", but he CAN NOT find "evidence of no cancer".

The observable phenomenon is that things tend to fall down. We DO have empirical evidence for that.

Gravity is NOT the observed phenomenon. It is a model devised to explain it.

If you can't tell the difference, well... the rest is silence :)

Andro
05-07-2018, 09:26 PM
https://image.ibb.co/hrSUES/Unknown.jpg

Wasn't talking about you. Someone mentioned earlier that their brain gets "triggered" by such matters.

I wouldn't want to be responsible for someone getting a stroke as a result of cognitive dissonance :)

I can tell you what I saw OOB in private, next time we chat :)

Awani
05-07-2018, 09:29 PM
Someone mentioned earlier that their brain gets "triggered" by such matters.

I know... but Alchemy Forums is not a SAFE SPACE... only if people are attacked personally... but if ideas put forth somehow attacks other peoples ideas THEN be prepared to face rape of the mind, sodomy of the intellect and even perhaps murder of inherent dogma.

:p

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:02 PM
How do you KNOW this? What do you have to back up this claim? Or alternately, how do you KNOW that the "globe earth" is not in fact the true psyop?

BTW, I've see the "earth" OOB as non-globe long before the whole mass-trend began.

Not that my OOB observations are any ultimate indications, just saying...

All reality is one big psyop, if you ask me... one Great Mind-Fuck :)

I believe it is a psyop because 1 the whole flat Earth thing suddenly appeared and 2 it takes money to spread information.

Did you watch the vid I posted above of the water in zero gravity? All fluids will form a sphere in zero gravity! Why do we need communication satellites if the Earth is flat? Why cant a radio broadcast be sent right across your flat Earth? Could a satellite orbit a flat disc? What would be the gravitational field lines look like from a flat Earth? What is the highest mountain on your flat Earth? Standing on top of that mountain with a scope I would be able to see what? Could a moon orbit a flat earth? Are there people living on both sides of this flat Earth or only one? Is it not strange that all the other planets in our solar system and any planet we have found outside of our solar system is spherical yet our Earth is flat?

Amon
05-07-2018, 10:06 PM
I believe it is a psyop because 1 the whole flat Earth thing suddenly appeared and 2 it takes money to spread information.

Did you watch the vid I posted above of the water in zero gravity? All fluids will form a sphere in zero gravity! Why do we need communication satellites if the Earth is flat. Why cant a radio broadcast be sent right across your flat Earth? Could a satellite orbit a flat disc? What would be the gravitational field lines look like from a flat Earth. What is the highest mountain on your flat Earth? Standing on top of that mountain with a scope I would be able to see what? Could a moon orbit a flat earth? Are there people living on both sides of this flat Earth or only one? Is it not strange that all the other planets in our solar system and any planet we have found outside of our solar system is spherical yet our Earth is flat?

I don't think the flat Earth model is that of a flat disk. Its a disk alright but only the very fundantional plane is considered "flat". The North pole resembles a really huge mountain which would explain why radio waves or sunlight cannot reach places diametrically opposed in relation to the North Pole.

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:12 PM
I don't think the flat Earth model is that of a flat disk. Its a disk alright but only the very fundantional plane is considered "flat". The North pole resembles a really huge mountain which would explain why radio waves or sunlight cannot reach places diametrically opposed in relation to the North Pole.

What is the name of this highest mountain in the North pole?

Andro
05-07-2018, 10:13 PM
I believe it is a psyop because 1 the whole flat Earth thing suddenly appeared and 2 it takes money to spread information.

Did you watch the vid I posted above of the water in zero gravity? All fluids will form a sphere in zero gravity! Why do we need communication satellites if the Earth is flat. Why cant a radio broadcast be sent right across your flat Earth? Could a satellite orbit a flat disc? What would be the gravitational field lines look like from a flat Earth. What is the highest mountain on your flat Earth? Standing on top of that mountain with a scope I would be able to see what? Could a moon orbit a flat earth? Are there people living on both sides of this flat Earth or only one? Is it not strange that all the other planets in our solar system and any planet we have found outside of our solar system is spherical yet our Earth is flat?

1. It's not MY "flat earth". I have clearly stated before that what I saw OOB was not exactly a "flat" structure as it is promoted by this "movement".

2. Have you ever personally seen satellites in the sky with your own eyes/telescope?

3. I will not get into the topic of the visible celestial bodies. It's a bit more complex, at least in my own observations.

4. I am NOT arguing for "flat earth". I am all for entertaining alternative models, but then again, I am not obsessing over it.

5. The realm of the "gods" (the gods that you mentioned on another thread) - where is it? How is it related/connected to YOUR globe earth?

Amon
05-07-2018, 10:24 PM
What is the name of this highest mountain in the North pole?

I said resembles because its not actually a mountain. Something like that: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jkIoJ631shk/VyAFK9YNzDI/AAAAAAABCbg/_L5rAGe1nY0tCeahrWsHXB8DKzBICM1NwCLcB/s1600/la_secta_de_la_tierra_plana_ampliacion.jpg

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:36 PM
1. It's not MY "flat earth". I have clearly stated before that what I saw OOB was not exactly a "flat" structure as it is promoted by this "movement".

2. Have you ever personally seen satellites in the sky with your own eyes/telescope?

3. I will not get into the topic of the visible celestial bodies. It's a bit more complex, at least in my own observations.

4. I am NOT arguing for "flat earth". I am all for entertaining alternative models, but then again, I am not obsessing over it.

5. The realm of the "gods" (the gods that you mentioned on another thread) - where is it? How is it related/connected to YOUR globe earth?

I have not see a telecommunication satellite with my own eyes but loads of amateur astronomers have, I'm not really an astronomy buff. I do know however that it wasn't until we had these satellites that we could communicate across the Earth via radio waves. If the Earth was flat a radio broadcast would go right across flat Earth. If the Earth was flat I could climb the highest mountain on flat Earth and I would be able to see every country on flat Earth with a telescope. A natural satellite such as our moon could never orbit a flat disc because of the shape of the gravitational field lives generated by a flat Earth.
If the Earth was flat we would be able to build a lighthouse on top of the highest mountain on flat Earth and everyone everywhere would be able to see it.

I believe the realm of the gods is here. It occupies the same space as ours but at a higher octave.

Andro
05-07-2018, 10:41 PM
I believe the realm of the gods is here. It occupies the same space as ours but at a higher octave.

So the realm/space of the "gods" is also globe-shaped, just on a higher octave?

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:43 PM
I said resembles because its not actually a mountain. Something like that: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jkIoJ631shk/VyAFK9YNzDI/AAAAAAABCbg/_L5rAGe1nY0tCeahrWsHXB8DKzBICM1NwCLcB/s1600/la_secta_de_la_tierra_plana_ampliacion.jpg

That is totally impossible, no object could ever orbit such a shape. I dont understand what the three spheres are above this discus but I will assume one is the Sun, one is the Moon and the one right above the Arctic is the pole star. The Arctic would be a place of never ending day!

Andro
05-07-2018, 10:48 PM
That is totally impossible, no object could ever orbit such a shape. I dont understand what the three spheres are above this discus but I will assume one is the Sun, one is the Moon and the one right above the Arctic is the pole star. The Arctic would be a place of never ending day!

You're using globe logic (orbit mechanics, solar light-coverage, etc) on non-globe models.

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:54 PM
So the realm/space of the "gods" is also globe-shaped, just on a higher octave?

The higher aspect of our Earth is a sphere with two vortex cones at the poles so it is not exactly the same as our physical Earth (I believe). This vortex cone the Aryans called the mountain of the gods. This mountain unlike physical mountains is narrow at the base and expands as you ascend.

Luxus
05-07-2018, 10:57 PM
You're using globe logic (orbit mechanics, solar light-coverage, etc) on non-globe models.

No I am not, I know what the gravitational field lines would look like from that flat Earth. I know that stable orbit cannot be achieved orbiting an object with this type of gravitational field.

JDP
05-08-2018, 01:17 AM
There are no empirical facts, only empirical evidence.

Let me teach you an example: A doctor CAN find "no evidence of cancer", but he CAN NOT find "evidence of no cancer".

Same difference! It seems you are engaging in semantic games.


The observable phenomenon is that things tend to fall down. We DO have empirical evidence for that.

Gravity is NOT the observed phenomenon. It is a model devised to explain it.

If you can't tell the difference, well... the rest is silence :)

No, "gravity" is the name we give to that observable phenomenon, the one there is no question about, because it is AN EMPIRICAL FACT that is independently observed & felt by all living creatures possessed of at least some modicum of intelligence (yes, even many animals know about how real gravity is. You won't see many cats or dogs jumping down a cliff out of their own will! Same thing with sane, non-suicidal people.) Then there's several theories that have been invented to try to "explain" the "workings" behind the observable FACT known as "gravity". You can disagree with those, but certainly NOT with the EMPIRICAL/OBSERVABLE FACT itself.

Kibric
05-08-2018, 01:57 AM
Gravity leaks from the 11th dimension i recall

The one argument flat earther's have is that there is no none composite picture of earth.
We have the technology but no one has actually done it. Also there is clear graphically anomalies on the ISS live feeds and interviews.
This alone does not support the flat earth model.
Inner earth on the other hand has more evidence to support it, Admiral Byrd etc.

Andro
05-08-2018, 05:11 AM
Same difference! It seems you are engaging in semantic games.

No, I'm not. "No evidence of cancer" is NOT the same as "evidence of no cancer". You can have the former, but not the latter. Can you see this?

Most things to tend to fall "down". THIS is the phenomenon.

"Gravity" is a model attempting to explain the phenomenon.

You're boring me again with your tired "jumping off a cliff" stand-up routine.

I am NOT denying observable phenomenon. I am questioning the model used to explain it.

There is a BIG difference. Not a semantic one.

Casts and dogs don't avoid jumping off cliffs because of "gravity".

They avoid it instinctively, just like I did as a child, before I even knew about the theory of gravity.

We are apparently born with the fear of falling.

The phenomena we explain by the model of gravity can be also explained by density and buoyancy (for example).


✂--------------------------------------------------------

Andro
05-08-2018, 05:20 AM
No I am not.

Yes, you are.

If you can't see it, it's not my job to explain/convince.

What have you ever done (on purpose) to prove yourself wrong? Confirmation bias is not a friend of the rational mind.

Anyone defending a model should have an "attempting-to-prove-oneself-wrong" mechanism, IMO.

:)

JDP
05-08-2018, 09:44 AM
No, I'm not. "No evidence of cancer" is NOT the same as "evidence of no cancer". You can have the former, but not the latter. Can you see this?

No. As I said: SAME DIFFERENCE! These are just word games.


Most things to tend to fall "down". THIS is the phenomenon.

And that is "gravity"! It's not a "theory", it's the observable phenomenon itself:

https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/what-is-gravity/en/


"Gravity" is a model attempting to explain the phenomenon.

No! "Gravity" is the name of the phenomenon.


You're boring me again with your tired "jumping off a cliff" stand-up routine.

Some people find the truth to be "boring".


I am NOT denying observable phenomenon. I am questioning the model used to explain it.

Then you CANNOT question gravity itself.


There is a BIG difference. Not a semantic one.

Casts and dogs don't avoid jumping off cliffs because of "gravity".

Yes, they do. They know very well that they will plummet down to their deaths if they take such an action.


They avoid it instinctively, just like I did as a child, before I even knew about the theory of gravity.

We are apparently born with the fear of falling.

Indeed, because gravity is a reality of daily life, it has always been so, so we seem to be "programmed" to take it into account, and for our own health!


The phenomena we explain by the model of gravity can be also explained by density and buoyancy (for example).


✂--------------------------------------------------------

No, it can't. For example, there is no "density" to speak of between the planets, stars, comets, asteroids, etc., yet gravity still pulls all of them towards each other. Gravity is quite independent of the "medium" between bodies. It works even in a vacuum.

Andro
05-08-2018, 10:16 AM
"No evidence of cancer" is NOT the same as "evidence of no cancer". You can have the former, but not the latter. Can you see this?
No. As I said: SAME DIFFERENCE! These are just word games.

This is where your "logic" fails miserably. Those two are NOT the same.

No doctor/lab in the world is able to find "evidence of no cancer" - what they may find is "no evidence of cancer".

No evidence of cancer does NOT mean you don't have cancer, it just means they found no evidence of it.

"No evidence of god" is NOT the same as "evidence of no god".

"No evidence that you're a criminal" is NOT "evidence that you're not a criminal".

etc, etc...

The two are NOT the same!

One can have the former, but not the latter.

One can NOT conclusively prove a negative (i.e. have conclusive evidence for a negative)

As long as you MISERABLY FAIL to grasp this VERY simple empirical concept, all logical debates with you are doomed :)

Have fun in your pseudo-empirical fantasy land :cool:

Andro
05-08-2018, 10:40 AM
"No evidence of cancer" is NOT the same as "evidence of no cancer".

"No evidence of god" is NOT the same as "evidence of no god".

"No evidence that you're a criminal" is NOT "evidence that you're not a criminal".

The two are NOT the same!

I'm curious, can anyone else see this? Or is it just me?

:confused:

Luxus
05-08-2018, 11:54 AM
Yes, you are.

If you can't see it, it's not my job to explain/convince.

What have you ever done (on purpose) to prove yourself wrong? Confirmation bias is not a friend of the rational mind.

Anyone defending a model should have an "attempting-to-prove-oneself-wrong" mechanism, IMO.

:)

Nope, I am treating it simply as an object, a mass and observing how the geometry of that mass effects the pattern of gravitation field lines around that object. Once I have established the field shape I ask myself the question can stable orbit be achieved around this flat object.....and the answer is no.

Let us also remember that when you see the round shadow cast and moving across the Moon during eclipse this shadow is produced by our Earth ie the Earth is round!

Andro
05-08-2018, 12:22 PM
can stable orbit be achieved around this flat object...

What if it's not "around"? What if there's an entirely different mechanism at play?


the round shadow you see cast on the Moon is the shadow produced by our Earth

How are you so certain that this is a fact? Maybe there is a different explanation of the moon phases?

If the earth is casting the shadow - how would you explain the sun and a partial (overshadowed) moon both simultaneously in the sky?

Could the earth be lit by a different luminous body from behind, so it can cast a shadow on the moon while the sun is above the horizon?

(during daytime, of course, when both sun and partial/overshadowed moon are "above the horizon")

I'm not asking to antagonize, I'm just curious, because I have never heard a satisfying explanation for this... All the explanations I've heard so far show how the sun and the moon can occupy the same daytime sky, but none of them explains the shadow cast on the moon while the sun is otherwise engaged...

There are images online, but I've witnessed it myself many times.

Awani
05-08-2018, 12:33 PM
No! "Gravity" is the name of the phenomenon.

Actually the Law of Gravity is the law that things attract. The Theory of Gravity is "ideas" on how they actually attract.

You got to be pretty blind not to "see" that there is a law of gravity on this Earth. This is not different from the law of gameplay when playing a video game. Like anything you got to have perimeters to make the "thing" enjoyable. Just like a videogame there are of course hacks, and laws can be broken. But just because you can break a law does not mean that the law does not exist. It does not also imply that the law is eternal, that it has always been that way and always will be that way. Like everything in the universe, "gravity" also runs on the same algorithm as everything else... some call it evolution. Gravity has probably evolved out of habit... I mean if you have a tree, and the seeds of the tree is in the top... it would be good if "something" could make those seed go down to the ground? All this is a perfect allegory of what I mean when I say that we should not allow the delusion of reality confuse us regarding the reality of the illusion.

The theory of gravity on the other hand is not a law, nor is it understood, nor has the scientific community agreed on how it actually works.

As for debates on flat earth: for me they fall in the same category as "aliens raped my momma" or "the governments is making chemtrails to control my mind"

Maybe they are, maybe they did... maybe... but personally I could care less... and a globe is way more beautiful... and since reality is what we make of it, then my reality will be like NASA says, because not only does it make more sense... it is also more beautiful (which is the most important).

Finally all this talk of brainwashing, aliens control, slaves, trapped etc etc... that is all hogwash to me, and communities that are involved with fear and paranoia, those communities or groups of people, they are the real trap. It is dark energy, no doubt. And where I am in my own journey I feel I am beyond that. Those states of mind was fun when I was a teen... because as Yoda says fear leads to anger, and anger leads to hate. And even if some seem to empower themselves with "being informed" they are actually weaking their internal energies. They will age quicker. IMO.

:p

JDP
05-08-2018, 12:42 PM
This is where your "logic" fails miserably. Those two are NOT the same.

No doctor/lab in the world is able to find "evidence of no cancer" - what they may find is "no evidence of cancer".

No evidence of cancer does NOT mean you don't have cancer, it just means they found no evidence of it.

"No evidence of god" is NOT the same as "evidence of no god".

"No evidence that you're a criminal" is NOT "evidence that you're not a criminal".

etc, etc...

The two are NOT the same!

One can have the former, but not the latter.

One can NOT conclusively prove a negative (i.e. have conclusive evidence for a negative)

As long as you MISERABLY FAIL to grasp this VERY simple empirical concept, all logical debates with you are doomed :)

Have fun in your pseudo-empirical fantasy land :cool:

Huh? A doctor can easily "find evidence of no cancer" in a patient. If he examines you and does not find any cancer, that could easily be his verdict: "I find evidence of no cancer in you". It's pretty much the same as the other one, only with the words changed around a bit. Think about it as a bullet instead of cancer: "I find evidence of no bullet in you". Why? Because he examined you and did not find any bullet whatsoever in you. "No bullet" here in this negative context is meant as not finding "any bullet":

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/no

Manner of expression.

JDP
05-08-2018, 12:51 PM
Actually the Law of Gravity is the law that things attract. The Theory of Gravity is "ideas" on how they actually attract.

You got to be pretty blind not to "see" that there is a law of gravity on this Earth. This is not different from the law of gameplay when playing a video game. Like anything you got to have perimeters to make the "thing" enjoyable. Just like a videogame there are of course hacks, and laws can be broken. But just because you can break a law does not mean that the law does not exist. It does not also imply that the law is eternal, that it has always been that way and always will be that way. Like everything in the universe, "gravity" also runs on the same algorithm as everything else... some call it evolution. Gravity has probably evolved out of habit... I mean if you have a tree, and the seeds of the tree is in the top... it would be good if "something" could make those seed go down to the ground? All this is a perfect allegory of what I mean when I say that we should not allow the delusion of reality confuse us regarding the reality of the illusion.

The theory of gravity on the other hand is not a law, nor is it understood, nor has the scientific community agreed on how it actually works.



That's my point. There is a big difference between the two. "Gravity" is observed by everyone, but not everyone shares the same ideas regarding how it "works". The world of EMPIRICAL FACTS is quite independent of the world of THEORIES/SPECULATIONS/CONJECTURES. EMPIRICAL FACTS are the same for everyone (objective), THEORIES/SPECULATIONS/CONJECTURES about those FACTS are not (subjective.)

Luxus
05-08-2018, 01:05 PM
I gave several indisputable facts which when added together make this flat Earth highly improbable.

1, If the Earth was flat radio waves could propagate across flat Earth unimpeded.

2, Connected to the above, If Earth was flat we would need no telecommunication satellites to bounce signals around the "globe". Also notice we had not this ability until the invention of the communication satellite.

3, At the top of the highest mountain on flat Earth you would be able to see every country across flat Earth with the aid of a telescope.

4, Related to the above a powerful light beacon located on the highest mountain on flat Earth would be viewable by everyone on flat Earth.

5, All fluids will naturally form spheres in a zero gravity environment, see video https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2014/nov/07/water-bubble-space-science-video

6, Related to the above all observable planets are spherical (we have never observed a flat planet thus far) based on the law of probability our planet being flat is highly improbable.

7, This one I have tried to communicate, but as far as I understand it stable orbit around a flat Earth either orbiting over both faces or over the top of one face would be impossible.

8, Lunar eclipse shadow being round. We know the Moon orbits the Earth. If the Moon orbited above one side of flat Earth (which would be imposable anyway) the people living presumably on the other side would never see the moon. Also the Moon would always appear at the same altitude in the sky. If you are saying the Moon orbits around both faces of flat Earth (which again would be imposable) the shadow cast on the Moon would be a flat line (assuming you are not also saying the Sun revolves around the Earth).
If the Sun revolved around the flat Earth as that image posted a few pages back illustrates then there would be eternal daylight at the Arctic.

Added together there are more holes in this flat Earth idea then holes in a tea bag.

Awani
05-08-2018, 01:08 PM
That's my point.

It is wonderful that we finally agree, however I doubt that your point was also that the Law of Gravity is not fixed and that it can be hacked. Close enough I guess.

:p

Luxus
05-08-2018, 01:21 PM
On the subject of gravity you can actually create gravity without mass so gravity is not a property of mass rather it is a secondary reaction ie matter causes a coherence in the vacuum energy of space and we experience this localised coherence as gravity.

Florius Frammel
05-08-2018, 03:41 PM
If the earth is casting the shadow - how would you explain the sun and a partial (overshadowed) moon both simultaneously in the sky?

Could the earth be lit by a different luminous body from behind, so it can cast a shadow on the moon while the sun is above the horizon?

(during daytime, of course, when both sun and partial/overshadowed moon are "above the horizon")

I'm not asking to antagonize, I'm just curious, because I have never heard a satisfying explanation for this... All the explanations I've heard so far show how the sun and the moon can occupy the same daytime sky, but none of them explains the shadow cast on the moon while the sun is otherwise engaged...

There are images online, but I've witnessed it myself many times.

I have got two explanations for your observation.
First imagine you are standing at the place where this picture is taken(a spot on the moon):

https://www.planet-schule.de/mm/die-erde/Barrierefrei/pages/img/img_1408377044137_li.jpg

Then switch the perspective to Berlin if you can locate the approxiamate location on the picture.
From Berlin you see both, sun and moon.

Switch back to that spot on the moon and walk a few meters to the right. It will be getting dark there, though from Berlin the whole moon (with this earth shadow) is still visible.

Another important thing may be the different refraction of light in different mediums (here: space and atmosphere). It can also been observed with atmosohere and water like in this picture:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZzeWsco__0/maxresdefault.jpg

So the moon and stars are not at the position where we actually see them. One reason why some telescopes are in an orbit outside the earth atmosphere.

JDP
05-08-2018, 07:01 PM
On the subject of gravity you can actually create gravity without mass so gravity is not a property of mass rather it is a secondary reaction ie matter causes a coherence in the vacuum energy of space and we experience this localised coherence as gravity.

Sounds a bit difficult to prove such a thing, since without any mass of matter around there would be no way of observing the effects of gravity, even if we assume it's there somehow. Also, it's well-known that the more massive an object is, the stronger its gravitational pull. So there is an obvious connection between mass and gravity.

Awani
05-08-2018, 07:40 PM
https://preview.ibb.co/k6tpzS/tumblr_nt4hr3njh_O1uvm6rjo1_1280.jpg

:p

Luxus
05-08-2018, 08:41 PM
Sounds a bit difficult to prove such a thing, since without any mass of matter around there would be no way of observing the effects of gravity, even if we assume it's there somehow. Also, it's well-known that the more massive an object is, the stronger its gravitational pull. So there is an obvious connection between mass and gravity.

Gravity can be observed without the need of mass because it bends light if the warping is extreme enough. Extreme warping of space/time must occur around the jets of a quasar and this should be observable by the bending of light rays around the jets. Severe time distortions would also occur around these jets due to their enormous energy density.

The more massive an object is the grater the coherence of the vacuum energy around that mass thus the grater the gravitational effect...gravity is a property of space not matter

Awani
05-08-2018, 09:31 PM
Gravity can be observed without the need of mass because it bends light...

...you touched upon it but gravity also bends time... so I wonder if it bends consciousness...

We might have a sort of law regarding gravity, but we cannot claim we understand gravity. I wonder if psychedelics have a sort of gravitational pull since it bends the mind. Just a few minutes ago I was listening to a talk by Terence McKenna where he put forth the idea that the mind is folded within the brain (it takes the shape of its container), and with psychedelics the mind unfolds. That is also one plausible explanation...

If "immaterial" things like time and light can bend, then why not the mind as well?

Can psychedelics generate gravity?

The planets are in a preserved angular momentum (think it is called that), and they roll around our sun due to its gravitational pull... and because there is no friction in space, and because the planets are so big it seems like this is going to go on forever. It won't. At some point the Moon is going to reach escape velocity. If a large enough object collides with a planet, the planet can change course... it can get a push to reach escape velocity.

Our mind seems to be made up of thoughts that are also in preserved angular momentum (volumes of philosophical books could be written about this). If the right ingredient is placed within the mind be it trauma or psychedelics or other, then our thoughts can reach escape velocity.

Perhaps the debate is not if gravity exists or not.

Perhaps the debate is what is not gravity?

Perhaps that is the only thing that exists?

Perhaps gravity is the felt and visible energy of God itself.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/69/32/27693251e8bde2667ddcd6b379ee9f59.gif

:p

JDP
05-08-2018, 11:58 PM
Gravity can be observed without the need of mass because it bends light if the warping is extreme enough. Extreme warping of space/time must occur around the jets of a quasar and this should be observable by the bending of light rays around the jets. Severe time distortions would also occur around these jets due to their enormous energy density.

The more massive an object is the grater the coherence of the vacuum energy around that mass thus the grater the gravitational effect...gravity is a property of space not matter

A quasar is a supermassive object. There is no way to observe light or anything else being affected by gravity without something that has mass producing that very gravity for us to observe it. If gravity depended on space and not on matter this would not be the case, we could observe gravity in a vacuum with nothing else around.

Luxus
05-09-2018, 12:28 AM
A quasar is a supermassive object. There is no way to observe light or anything else being affected by gravity without something that has mass producing that very gravity for us to observe it. If gravity depended on space and not on matter this would not be the case, we could observe gravity in a vacuum with nothing else around.

Gravity is only produced in space when the vacuum energy which pervades space is locally cohered. This coherence can be produced by mass or energy. And yes you can produce gravity in free space without any mass if you focus enough energy to trigger a localised coherence of the vacuum energy. The jet of a quasar has an enormous energy density so I suspect it will produce far reaching gravitational distortions around the jet. Physicists are working on warp drives and the whole physics of these devices hinges on being able to warp space with energy rather then mass.

Awani
06-03-2018, 09:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5CMgR74QK4

Btw watch all videos by Kyle Dunnigan.

:p

Amon
06-04-2018, 12:03 AM
There is an intresting idea that i like entertaining, posed by Leedskalnin, that is, gravity and magnetism are the same force, the difference being only in the density of the currents of the flowing miny magnets (which i call gravitoniums). He claims a magnet has the ability to "concentrate" this current.

Another claim he makes, which is actually of more use to alchemical theory, is that light itself, when it strikes an object, it is either reflected or broken into its 2 constituents, which as gravitoniums and heat.
That sort of ties together with the notion of leaving liquids in sealed flasks on sunlight so they may be "energized' and become "magnetic". But that is for another thread,

Michael Sternbach
06-04-2018, 04:19 AM
Gravity is only produced in space when the vacuum energy which pervades space is locally cohered.

Are you referring to Tom Bearden's theory?


This coherence can be produced by mass or energy. And yes you can produce gravity in free space without any mass if you focus enough energy to trigger a localised coherence of the vacuum energy. The jet of a quasar has an enormous energy density so I suspect it will produce far reaching gravitational distortions around the jet. Physicists are working on warp drives and the whole physics of these devices hinges on being able to warp space with energy rather then mass.

Yes. More accurately, with negative energy that would essentially have an anti-gravity effect.

Dendritic Xylem
06-07-2018, 10:43 PM
Just found out that for the low price of $20k you can book a flight to the edge of space. In a MiG-29 no less.

http://www.flyfighterjet.com/edge-of-space-flight#toggle-id-1-closed

Andro
06-08-2018, 03:57 AM
Just found out that for the low price of $20k you can book a flight to the edge of space. In a MiG-29 no less.

http://www.flyfighterjet.com/edge-of-space-flight#toggle-id-1-closed


Yes well Flat Earth folks will just say those videos are made by CIA NASA agents, or that any curvature is lens created. ;)

Psyop & fish-eye lenses. LOL.

http://www.flyfighterjet.com/wp-content/gallery/mig-29-edge-of-space/edge-of-space-mig-29-fulcrum.jpg

The "passenger" even goes out of his way to say that he "sees the curvature" and that "it's not an optical illusion".

I thought this was supposed to be "common knowledge" for everyone, so why would he say that (almost as if surprised) and why would the editors chose to insert this remark in a clip that's less than 80 seconds long?

Reminds me of an OLD joke I once heard, from the iron curtain era:

Person A: Have you heard? The Russians have made it into space!
Person B (with visible excitement): Really? ALL of them?

Dragon's Tail
06-08-2018, 05:05 AM
why would the editors chose to insert this remark in a clip that's less than 80 seconds long?


Because it's polarizing and they know it will create buzz like this ;)

Andro
06-08-2018, 05:26 AM
Because it's polarizing and they know it will create buzz like this ;)

Yep :)

Buzz is the word!

Dendritic Xylem
06-08-2018, 09:07 AM
Psyop & fish-eye lenses. LOL.

If it's a gopro, which is what most people use, then the wide-angle (fish eye) effect is standard. A quick google search reveals many threads asking how to remove the fish eye effect.



The "passenger" even goes out of his way to say that he "sees the curvature" and that "it's not an optical illusion".

That passenger is Canadian Josh Cartu. He's a high school dropout that races ferraris. I doubt he's a secret agent...
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/hey-josh-cartu-how-did-you-get-to-race-ferraris/

Mentioning the curvature is normal, because few ever get to see it. It's the main visual difference between flying near space vs just regular high altitude. The optical illusion comment also makes sense when you consider that the wide angle camera he's using does create some curve illusion. He also might be making a subtle shout out to flat earthers. The theory has gotten much attention over the last decade. I think most first-world people at least know of its existence by now.

Also, the civilian flight service is legit. Anthony Bourdain did it...
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2r45sl
Although it wasn't the near space flight, my point is that this is a real company doing real flights with real civilians. So this legitimate company has one single hoax flight among a dozen legitimate ones...simply for perpetuating the round earth psy-op, and the FSB recruits an uneducated racer to go along with the hoax? Seems pretty far-fetched to me.

Awani
06-08-2018, 09:19 AM
Seems pretty far-fetched to me.

I agree. There is no motive... what is the motive?

The only motive I have heard is based in some sort of "negative"/"enslavement" mentality.

:p

Andro
06-08-2018, 10:07 AM
Most (non-crazy) arguments for both "camps" have numerous valid points.

None of those points (so far) have been sufficient to convince me, one way or the other.

People with vested interests are able go to incredible lengths do maintain/expose a perceived "lie", just as they can go to great extremes to hide (or reveal) what they perceive as "truth".

I'd rather wait until I myself (or someone I genuinely trust) take such a trip :)

Dendritic Xylem
06-08-2018, 11:25 AM
I'd rather wait until I myself (or someone I genuinely trust) take such a trip :)

There's also a company that's been doing commercial work but is planning balloon trips for civilians in the future.
https://worldview.space/about/#overview


With technology advancing like it is, it'll be hard for the elite to keep us away from Space. Things should be interesting in 50 years.

But then again, 50 years ago people were saying we would all have flying cars today.
Yet here we are, still burning fossil fuels and waiting for battery advancements.

Whether the Earth is flat or round, I'm pretty sure the PTB want to keep us on it so they can keep harvesting our energy output. Matrix style.

Andro
06-08-2018, 11:39 AM
Whether the Earth is flat or round, I'm pretty sure the PTB want to keep us on it so they can keep harvesting our energy output. Matrix style.

This sits well with something you wrote in the past, that anti-gravity tech is even more suppressed than "free" energy.

Care to comment on that?

Thanks.

Warmheart
06-08-2018, 11:07 PM
With technology advancing like it is, it'll be hard for the elite to keep us away from Space. Things should be interesting in 50 years.
Do you think there is something awaiting people in the space?

Various teachings say that planets are body of sentient beings, and I saw many things which approve this. I think that when mankind will start exploring (or rather consuming) consuming other planets (physical bodies of godlike beings) and draining them from resources, it will lead to extremely horrible consequences. I see a lot of notions of that with companies like that of Musk and such, and they worry me.

Dendritic Xylem
06-08-2018, 11:40 PM
This sits well with something you wrote in the past, that anti-gravity tech is even more suppressed than "free" energy.

When I was 12 I saw a very bright white plasma in the sky at night. It looked like Venus except 10x bigger. It took off from a stand still at a speed which would have destroyed any occupants. I thought I may have hallucinated, until years later when youtube was created and people started posting videos of the same thing. Some quick research yielded two possibilities. The first was atmospheric phenomenon like sprites and ball lightning. The second was space craft which use some type of electromagnetodynamic fields that provide seemingly reactionless propulsion while also reducing the effect of inertia on matter within the field. After much research, and speaking with other witnesses, I settled with the space craft theory.

I'm not 100% sure if they are piloted by aliens, humans, robots, or any combo of those. But it seems that some type of intelligence is up there living the Star Trek life while we are stuck on Earth with ridiculously inferior technology. Considering how violent and irrational our species can be, it's understandable why there would be a concerted effort to keep the masses grounded.

So I assume that we are kept in place in a system which facilitates the harvesting of production/work/energy by those at the top of the pyramid, so they can live the good life and support the development of a private elite Space infrastructure. But "they" can only hold us back for so long as technology advances. Infrared cameras are helping quite a lot.

The Chilean govt released a very good video of these craft early last year...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEK3YC_BKTI


11 months later the U.S. govt released two official videos of these impressive craft and a third video in March...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1uLwUTDA0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rWOtrke0HY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFvkMnuyClw


They also seem to be getting a little more open about energy tech this year, particularly compact fusion reactors...

https://lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/compact-fusion.html

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20289/china-touts-fusion-progress-as-new-details-on-lockheed-martins-reactor-emerge

Dendritic Xylem
06-08-2018, 11:50 PM
Do you think there is something awaiting people in the space?

Various teachings say that planets are body of sentient beings, and I saw many things which approve this. I think that when mankind will start exploring (or rather consuming) consuming other planets (physical bodies of godlike beings) and draining them from resources, it will lead to extremely horrible consequences. I see a lot of notions of that with companies like that of Musk and such, and they worry me.

I think that if there are other intelligent beings in the Universe, then we could potentially learn much from them. I don't think we are the only intelligent beings out there. It's akin to geocentricism imo. The consumption aspect is definitely a concern. But I think if populations are kept limited and advanced permaculture/recycling technologies are fully utilized along with healthy spiritual practices, then there would be minimal negative consequences. Maybe we could even use technology to help enliven dying planets.

But yeah, I'd put my money on the corporate industrial Muskocalypse happening before the Universal enlightenment of humanity.