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Axismundi000
06-08-2016, 08:30 AM
Purchased Sal Ammoniac (ammonium chloride) was heated and the vapour congealed on the lid of a casserole pot, this done 3 times.
http://i64.tinypic.com/2bwnes.jpg
Alcohol from brewing wine was distilled then added to potasium carbonate so that the alcohol had 97-98 % concentration. Ratio 4:10 Sal Ammoniac to Alcohol put in a airtight glass occupying 1/3 volume of a glass vessel, kept airtight and incubated for 3 months.

The alcohol then distilled off of the Sal Ammoniac and put back with the salts 3 times.

http://i63.tinypic.com/f52461.jpg
Bartlett and Dubuis write that the remaining salts can be put aside and re-used with more Alcohol to make more Kerkring's Menstruum. Rubaphilos has written that increasing heat after the alcohol has distilled over is a secret part of the method that he was shown. So I gave it a try:

http://i68.tinypic.com/ohlmcw.jpg

Initially a vapour arrived in the flask which probably had alcohol then later as heat was increased the Sal Ammoniac turned to vapour and congealed throughout the apparatus some forming a mist above the alcohol which on cooling formed crystals in the alcohol. These crystals in the stoppered flask of Kerkring's Menstruum have now disappeared into the liquid. The remaining Sal Ammoniac in the apparatus is gone back to a white colour rather then the yellow/orange obtained from collecting it from the lid of the heated casserole dish. Ammonium Chloride is water soluble so it is OK to clean.

Has anyone else tried this cooking off of the salts at the end or do people keep the Sal Ammoniac to make a fresh batch of Kerkring's Menstruum?

Axismundi000
06-13-2016, 08:32 AM
I respect the preference of people to keep their own council.

However for the sake of completeness here is the flask after the 'cook off'. After the 3rd sublimation in the casserole dish, there was no dirt at the bottom it was totally clean and the Orange Sal Ammoniac was on the lid. Yet there is plenty after the dry distillation of the salts at the end of the 3rd rotation. I suspect the carbon has come from the alcohol. Also the Sal Ammoniac has goneback to just basic white not orange/yellow anymore, like when I got it from the tub of purchased ammonium chloride at the beginning of the procedure.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2hphbmc.jpg

Michael Sternbach
06-14-2016, 09:19 PM
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

I recall that Kerkring's Menstruum plays a role in Valentine's antimony work. What exactly is it used for?

Axismundi000
06-15-2016, 12:05 PM
Kerkring's Menstruum is sometimes called philosophical alcohol. Alcohol is the physical cloak that the Mercury principal wears in the plant realm. That is, the physical expression of the Mercury energy at the plant-life frequency. By work with the Sal Ammoniac (ammonium chloride) it becomes magnetised with the energies of the mineral realm. So it can act as a bridge between organic and inorganic life, the Alchemist sees everything is alive; plants, animal, minerals etc. Kerkring's Menstruum is an interface liquid(a menstruum.)

So when an author eg Basil Valentine describes a procedure using philosophical alcohol this is the stuff he is usually referring to.

Michael Sternbach
06-15-2016, 10:35 PM
Kerkring's Menstruum is sometimes called philosophical alcohol. Alcohol is the physical cloak that the Mercury principal wears in the plant realm. That is, the physical expression of the Mercury energy at the plant-life frequency. By work with the Sal Ammoniac (ammonium chloride) it becomes magnetised with the energies of the mineral realm. So it can act as a bridge between organic and inorganic life, the Alchemist sees everything is alive; plants, animal, minerals etc. Kerkring's Menstruum is an interface liquid(a menstruum.)

So when an author eg Basil Valentine describes a procedure using philosophical alcohol this is the stuff he is usually referring to.

Does Valentine use this in his version of the Great Work or only for making particulars?

Axismundi000
06-16-2016, 12:09 AM
Basil Valentine in Triumphal Chariot of Antimony does not indicate the use of Kerkring's Menstruum. Rather later on, Kerkring gives a commentary in which he describes the procedure for this philosophical alcohol hence Kerkring's Menstruum. I'm going to stay focussed on Kerkring's Menstruum here because that is what I specifically posted about.

Michael Sternbach
06-16-2016, 08:09 AM
Basil Valentine in Triumphal Chariot of Antimony does not indicate the use of Kerkring's Menstruum. Rather later on, Kerkring gives a commentary in which he describes the procedure for this philosophical alcohol hence Kerkring's Menstruum. I'm going to stay focussed on Kerkring's Menstruum here because that is what I specifically posted about.


http://i63.tinypic.com/34phpfo.jpg

But alright... If you can't or don't want to share what Kerkring's Menstruum is actually used for, there will probably be nothing left for me to say. Except that your photo is upside down. Do you come from a land down under? ;)

JDP
06-16-2016, 11:23 AM
Do you come from a land down under? ;)

Men at Work... making gold!

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b6/2e/91/b62e917677722616278f616501656401.jpg

Axismundi000
06-16-2016, 01:14 PM
The pictures are the right way up when I open the page, rotate them.

The general use of Kerkrings Menstruum is to help extract the oil which is regarded as the sulphur or soul from a metal. I'm showing a specific Alchemy lab method here not teaching how to make the philosopher's stone. I was curious whether others re-use the salts or cook them off, my thinking was if I show my work it might encourage people who also use Kerkring's Menstruum to express an opinion.

Michael Sternbach
06-16-2016, 08:03 PM
The pictures are the right way up when I open the page, rotate them.

Oh, I take it then that you posted them like this intentionally, most likely for reasons of concealment of what they are showing...


The general use of Kerkrings Menstruum is to help extract the oil which is regarded as the sulphur or soul from a metal.

So they can be used for making the metal oils that you occasionally find mentioned in the literature. Alrighty, now you're talking business.


I'm showing a specific Alchemy lab method here not teaching how to make the philosopher's stone.

Heaven forbid! Notwithstanding the fact that few people would be able to do so - even if they wanted.


I was curious whether others re-use the salts or cook them off, my thinking was if I show my work it might encourage people who also use Kerkring's Menstruum to express an opinion.

Alchemy is a broad field of study, and I suspect the reason that nobody replied specifically to your question so far is simply that not many here have ever made Kerkring's Menstruum in the first place. According to its title, this thread seems to be about KM in general. The upside (;)) of us talking about it is that we keep bumping the thread, so there is a chance that somebody knowledgeable will chime in with the kind information that you're after, before it will go into oblivion.

Axismundi000
06-17-2016, 08:24 AM
There is no concealment as I say the photo's come out correctly oriented when I open the page, they were taken on my iPad and I used tinypic to format them for a forum.

The most straightforward application of Kerkring's Menstruum: obtain smelted lead or cerrusite crystal ( high purity) and break up into small pieces and or grind to powder. Add vinegar (preferably home made) and seal jar. Leave for say 3 months. Pour off liquid and evaporate liquid, add distilled water and further evaporate until ph neutral. Add Kerkring's Menstruum, the lead will precipitate out of the liquid, I then leave this in an incubator for a few months , I just feel I should do this. Then pour off liquid keep evaporating and pouring off until no further lead precipitates, add further Kerkring's Menstruum if needed. This liquid distil until an oil is left in the flask which must not be burnt, I rotate the alcohol (Kerkring's Menstruum ) 7 times, adding back and redistilling. The final product contains no metal but has the soul/sulphur of the metal.

Rubaphilos Safleur has a free PDF book about this with a lot more methodology and explanation on his website. I disagree with some of what he writes but anybody can try this work for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Michael Sternbach
06-17-2016, 12:57 PM
There is no concealment as I say the photo's come out correctly oriented when I open the page, they were taken on my iPad and I used tinypic to format them for a forum.

If they come out upright for you, you MUST be an Aussie!


The most straightforward application of Kerkring's Menstruum: obtain smelted lead or cerrusite crystal ( high purity) and break up into small pieces and or grind to powder. Add vinegar (preferably home made) and seal jar. Leave for say 3 months. Pour off liquid and evaporate liquid, add distilled water and further evaporate until ph neutral. Add Kerkring's Menstruum, the lead will precipitate out of the liquid, I then leave this in an incubator for a few months , I just feel I should do this. Then pour off liquid keep evaporating and pouring off until no further lead precipitates, add further Kerkring's Menstruum if needed. This liquid distil until an oil is left in the flask which must not be burnt, I rotate the alcohol (Kerkring's Menstruum ) 7 times, adding back and redistilling. The final product contains no metal but has the soul/sulphur of the metal.

Rubaphilos Safleur has a free PDF book about this with a lot more methodology and explanation on his website. I disagree with some of what he writes but anybody can try this work for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Interesting! This seems to be the 'lead acetate path', or a variation thereof, that you are describing. Are you aware of any direct link to Valentine's writings?

Axismundi000
06-17-2016, 01:44 PM
If you make a glass from the antimony you can extract the oil of the metal from it which is where Kerkring's appendices to triumphal chariot of antimony are usefull. Kerkring's Menstruum is not an Alkahest so smelted ( dead) metals will not produce a good oil. Cerrusite that I mention above is Alchemicaly speaking, a living crystal and if it is good quality/purity you can use the vinegar and then the Kerkring's Menstruum directly on it. You don't need to make it a glass or go through the extensive preparation that other mineral ores require.

Kerkring's Menstruum can be applied when you wish to obtain the oil/soul of a metal as mentioned previous.

Michael Sternbach
06-18-2016, 03:25 AM
I have a book by Frater Albertus (written in German) in which he talks about the preparation of antimony glass. I will take a look at it.

I will also review what Bartlett has to say about the acetate path.

Axismundi000
06-18-2016, 07:34 AM
My personal feeling is that it is best to cook off the salts at the end when making Kerkring's Menstruum because the Sal Ammoniac that went into tha Alcohol disappeared. My thinking is the salt that is inherently fixed has now become more volatile. I mentioned that Bartlett and Dubuis write that the salts can be re-used for more Kerkring's Menstruum which implies not increasing heat to make them vapour for the final distil, I.e. no cook off.

Please let me know what opinion you form on this because that is why I started this thread.

Edit: Bartlett give details of the procedure for Kerkring's Menstruum on p.74-75 of his book real Alchemy.

Michael Sternbach
06-19-2016, 06:34 AM
My personal feeling is that it is best to cook off the salts at the end when making Kerkring's Menstruum because the Sal Ammoniac that went into tha Alcohol disappeared. My thinking is the salt that is inherently fixed has now become more volatile. I mentioned that Bartlett and Dubuis write that the salts can be re-used for more Kerkring's Menstruum which implies not increasing heat to make them vapour for the final distil, I.e. no cook off.

Please let me know what opinion you form on this because that is why I started this thread.

Edit: Bartlett give details of the procedure for Kerkring's Menstruum on p.74-75 of his book real Alchemy.

Maybe the salt should be kept since it has become activated by the process in a way that makes it even more effective for future use? But I'm just speculating, I still hope that somebody with practical experience in this is going to chime in.

The best way will be to keep experimenting yourself until you reach satisfying conclusions.

Axismundi000
06-19-2016, 07:57 AM
I think you are right about personal experimentation Michael Sternbach. Alchemy is not chemistry, in chemistry if you add one thing to another it always gives a specific compound. This is only the starting point for Alchemy, different outcomes for the same work are common.

Andro
06-19-2016, 11:21 AM
Continued here: Aspects of Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3946-Aspects-of-Alchemy&p=42618#post42618)

z0 K
06-20-2016, 05:38 PM
Logistical Note: Continued form HERE (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3946-Aspects-of-Alchemy&p=42669#post42669).
________________________________

Axismundi000, I didn’t respond earlier to the Kerkring thread because I have not worked with sal ammoniac. Chemists think sal ammoniac is ammonium chloride. I have experience working with armoniac. Sometimes it manifests as sal volatile we call sal armoniac. Chemists think sal volatile is ammonium carbonate but that is the body they analyze when the armoniac escapes their determination of it. Ammonium carbonate does not give the same results as sal armoniac. I would suspect that ammonium chloride does not give the same results either.

That being said I enjoyed the presentation of your experiment. In my opinion that procedure would produce anhydrous ethanol with ammonium chloride dissolved in it at a rate of 6gm/L at 19C after the incubation. Distilling until the NH4Cl sublimes into the receiver with the ethanol may increase the concentration.

Did more crystals appear after the distillate cooled down?

I appreciate your explanation about Kerkring’s Menstrum. As far as I know ethanol can be a weak philosophical menstrum made to carry useful matter with it after cohabitation and distillation.

I do not agree with the hypothesis that alcohol is the carrier of Plant Mercury. I don’t say this to be argumentative. I used to believe it myself. That particular hypothesis is regarded as operative theory in the field of Spagyric praxis based on the writings of Paracelsus popularized in the last century by many modern alchemists.

I haven’t given Valentine any scrutiny in many years. I’m revisiting him again now that you have piqued my interest with your experiment. Thanks for that!


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Axismundi000
06-20-2016, 08:55 PM
About a sewing thimble of salts formed in the recieving flask which was stoppered when the salts started to burn in the distilling flask. This small quantity of salts disappeared into solution. I estimate that the liquid was no more the 10 centigrade above room temperature when the vapour from the salts were arriving in the receiving flask. So I think the salts went into solution when the flask reached room temperature.

This fresh information about Sal Ammoniac is new to me please explain more.

Your observation about the nature of the plant Mercury is also very interesting. Dubuis writes that alcohol is the cloak of Mercury for plant realm, perhaps you would like to share how you define it.

z0 K
06-21-2016, 03:51 PM
About a sewing thimble of salts formed in the recieving flask which was stoppered when the salts started to burn in the distilling flask. This small quantity of salts disappeared into solution. I estimate that the liquid was no more the 10 centigrade above room temperature when the vapour from the salts were arriving in the receiving flask. So I think the salts went into solution when the flask reached room temperature.

This fresh information about Sal Ammoniac is new to me please explain more.

Your observation about the nature of the plant Mercury is also very interesting. Dubuis writes that alcohol is the cloak of Mercury for plant realm, perhaps you would like to share how you define it.

Iíve been rereading Valentineís Triumphant Chariot. He says to use sal armoniack and wine spirit. Kerkring in his commentary says to use sal armoniack. Valentine is quite wicked with his use of double entendre concerning antimony and spirit of wine. He spends a lot of time describing the properties of antimony. In some places he addresses antimony specifically as the mineral stibium. In other places he describes antimony as a spirit with qualities that match armoniac in its first determined form which is not tangible as a substance to grasp but a Spirit that can be known or perceived by the senses. He describes antimony as having sulfur, mercury, and salt within it which the starting matter does but stibium does not.

He describes the production of ethanol from grape wine and calls it spirit of wine. Then he says how it can be made from the lees as well and that is burning wine. Burning wine made from the lees and skins of wine grapes is not ethanol.

He gives an outlandish example of something that is essential to remove the venom when he introduces true unicorn horn. Which I believe is a play on words for another horn that is used in alchemy that rhymes with unicorn. Sal armoniac can be obtained from that. It is true because it comes from the hart.

Ethyl alcohol is not plant mercury. None of the adepts ever said it was. That is a modern viewpoint that does not agree with the adepts that have left us with treatises about the plant work to make the plant stone. Many of them do detail how to make the quintessence spirit of wine from grapes. That is a menstrum used in other processes having to do with philosophical menstrums. It is the beginning of making the circulatum minus one way.

Plant mercury is a water with Spirit that does not wet the hands. Every plant has it. Each individual plant and each species express the philosophical mercury uniquely. That being said the plant mercury is always a water with a Spirit that does not wet the hands.

Sure it sounds like enigmatic BS, until you see it in your vessel.

Axismundi000
06-21-2016, 05:27 PM
Thank you z0 K I shall consider carefully what you have written and anything you may choose to add.

Axismundi000
11-04-2016, 06:38 PM
Just a brief update.

The alcohol looks looks yellow before it is distilled off the ammonium chloride, once distilled it is normal appearing. Does anyone else find this?

https://s16.postimg.org/k8e4v7chd/IMG_0713.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/k8e4v7chd/)