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Awani
06-28-2016, 10:11 PM
So just back from Romania. Went there for a psychedelic conference with Ghislain (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?186-Ghislain). The highlight was having an intimate dinner with Dennis McKenna and Jan Kounen (film director I like)... pretty awesome. Dennis is such a down to earth guy (as was Jan). Anyway... some ideas emerged when I and Ghislain were talking.

Video feedback = connect video camera to TV and film the TV, and you get a weird loop
Sound feedback = put a microphone too close to the speaker, and you get a high pitch noise
Reception = the antenna that receives the signal (video/sound)

When you smoke DMT you can hear this weird noise. Could this be a feedback sound loop?

When you do any kind of strong psychedelic substance the initial phase is going through the "corridor", which is a spinning, twirling, confusing chaos... could this be a feedback video loop?

Biologist Bruce Lipton:

...it also hit me that on the cell surfaces of all of our cells are sets of antennas, glyco protein antennas, that read environmental information. Actually a subset of these, recognized by science, are called self-receptors, receivers of self. Of course, they weren't thinking of it in that terminology, but what I started to recognize, the self-receptors distinguish one identity from another identity. If I remove the self-receptors from a cell, the cell is generic. And I can implant that generic cell into any human because it's now just a human cell without any personal identity to it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV95anuFDQU
Relevant bit starts at about 15 minutes...

Conclusion

When you do psychedelics in the initial phases you get the same effect as you would when a video camera or a microphone is turned to "look at itself"... then you get this weird feedback loop.

Because we are all just vehicles with antennas connected to a certain frequency.

:cool:

Andro
06-29-2016, 04:49 AM
turned to "look at itself"... then you get this weird feedback loop.

Auto-Feedback is the Key to self-awareness. Self 'seeing' Self. It happens in us all the time, with or without psychedelics. It's possible that Psychedelics bring this more 'to the front', so to speak.

When going Out of Body you often see your own physical body lying down, while 'you' float around having a jolly good time :)

A known 'trick' to become aware in a lucid dream is to look at one's hands. Thus, an auto-feedback loop is created, leading to awareness of self in the dream.


Because we are all just vehicles with antennas connected to a certain frequency.

The 'Self' that we perceive ourselves to 'be', is what I refer to as a 'Fake ID'. It's maintained by a 'frequency' like the one mentioned above, which is being 'broadcast' without interruption.

Like the main protagonist says in the movie They Live, when planning to destroy the central broadcasting dish that keeps everyone asleep: "The signal must be cut down at the source!".

thoth
06-29-2016, 05:58 PM
So just back from Romania. Went there for a psychedelic conference with Ghislain (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/member.php?186-Ghislain). The highlight was having an intimate dinner with Dennis McKenna and Jan Kounen (film director I like)... pretty awesome. Dennis is such a down to earth guy (as was Jan). Anyway... some ideas emerged when I and Ghislain were talking.

Video feedback = connect video camera to TV and film the TV, and you get a weird loop
Sound feedback = put a mic too close to the speaker, and you get a high pitch noise
Reception = the antenna that receives the signal (video/sound)

When you smoke DMT you can hear this weird noise. Could this be a feedback sound loop?

When you do any kind of strong psychedelic substance the initial phase is going through the "corridor", which is a spinning, twirling, confusing chaos... could this be a feedback video loop?

Biologist Bruce Lipton:

...it also hit me that on the cell surfaces of all of our cells are sets of antennas, glyco protein antennas, that read environmental information. Actually a subset of these, recognized by science, are called self-receptors, receivers of self. Of course, they weren't thinking of it in that terminology, but what I started to recognize, the self-receptors distinguish one identity from another identity. If I remove the self-receptors from a cell, the cell is generic. And I can implant that generic cell into any human because it's now just a human cell without any personal identity to it.

Conclusion

When you do psychedelics in the initial phases you get the same effect as you would when a video camera or a microphone is turned to "look at itself"... then you get this weird feedback loop.

Because we are all just vehicles with antennas connected to a certain frequency.

:cool:

Can wait to hear about that.

Its like consciousness being aware of consciousness.

In one of his talks, McKenna (the other one) did talk about the indole ring of psilocybin, being like an antenna, and speculated about technology using that design.

Awani
06-29-2016, 07:07 PM
...possible that Psychedelics bring this more 'to the front'...

Yes, although and understatement. More like "smacks it into your face without any possibility to avoid it."


Its like consciousness being aware of consciousness.

Yes. Good way to put it. But I only agree if we are talking about the spirit consciousness, the higher self. Not the everyday being conscious. If this true self looks at itself there is this feedback effect.

But if a normal consciousness looks at itself there is only a reflection in the mirror.

:cool:

thoth
06-30-2016, 10:21 PM
Yes. Good way to put it. But I only agree if we are talking about the spirit consciousness, the higher self. Not the everyday being conscious. If this true self looks at itself there is this feedback effect.

But if a normal consciousness looks at itself there is only a reflection in the mirror.

:cool:

Yes I completely agree. The real consciousness is that part without all the cultural programming/imprinting - ie the pure self.

On a psilocybe trip at the right moment (when the rough animal human part left behind and the universal pre-birth part is aware), it would be interesting to look in a mirror into the eyes - just like the feedback video/sound, and try to get a higher awareness. (Kind of like Anro's idea of looking at the hands when travelling out of the neighbourhood ;) )

In artificial inteligence there is the idea of "emergence", which is when a system becomes self aware. As far as I understood it, it was when a system reached a certain level of complexity (neurons/connections/processes), it became self aware. Instead of just 10,000 individual processes, some processes came to the fore, and became like a primary process.

I liked McKennas's muesings, that if a computer intelligence ever emerged via the WWW, that the first thing it would do is hide (I guess for fear of self preservation, and then after 1000 years in its time - ie. 1 sec in our time - on a 1 Ghz PC, it would then attack , or hopefully just replicate, or maybe modify the Monkey folks in a gentle way.

Anyway I do get what you were saying about the feedback idea. Will think about that next time I am "flying"
Maybe its another version of the Delphi Oracle "know thyself" i.e. let thy lower self become aware of thy higher self.

Its kind of like an amplifier, and thats why if you are in a bad place psychologically (have just had a row with the boss or herself), that when flying you will be in a bad place - your feedback loop spirals down, but opposite also applies

(BTW typo missed the " 't" after "can")

Awani
06-30-2016, 11:01 PM
In the Bwiti tradition (with Iboga) there is a part of the ritual where you look in the mirror. Alas I did not get to do this for some reason.

Generally it is advised not to do this. It is far superior to be in the dark and look in the "real" mirror, rather than see what your physical reflection might look like. Also looking in the mirror on any psychedelics can be hypnotizing and it is very easy to get stuck in your reflection. Just like the Narcissus myth.

I would refrain from doing it personally, but I am not saying anyone should not do it... it's not just something I think leads to anything.

:cool:

Kiorionis
07-01-2016, 04:38 AM
I would refrain from doing it personally, but I am not saying anyone should not do it... it's not just something I think leads to anything.

:cool:

Its really fun on a very very low dose.

Andro
07-01-2016, 06:16 AM
For those who can consciously go OOB, I recommend to stay indoors after getting out of body, find a mirror and look at your non-physical 'reflection'. It can be a bit 'spooky', but fascinating!

zoas23
07-01-2016, 06:55 AM
Interesting that you mentioned the mirror, Dev.

With a large mirror (if possible, big enough as to reflect the whole body) and sitting more or less 1,50 meters away from it... and without psychedelics involved... if you look at your own body and you manage to take your consciousness to the other side of the mirror***, then you can learn a lot about one of the most interesting and universal Gnostic allegories.

*** This is hard to put into words, but I mean something like switching your perception and becoming the image in the mirror looking at your real body.


Disclaimer: with "real body" I mean the Soma (physical body) and the expression is used only for educational purposes and does not mean that the physical body is the ultimate reality.

Awani
07-01-2016, 08:03 AM
This is hard to put into words, but I mean something like switching your perception and becoming the image in the mirror looking at your real body.

On more than one occasion have I achieved this effect, one time I was even speaking to myself. The two bodies had two different brains even. One was the normal physical consciousness and the other the true higher consciousness. It was a very peculiar feeling that I do not think I could have achieved by only looking at a mirror. To paraphrase McKenna no one is scared shitless before they are about to just sit and meditate. :)

Although I have looked in the mirror in a lucid dream once, but all that happened was that I woke up. Perhaps a fail safe to avoid feeback?

By the way with Soma you don't mean physical body, but rather Amanita Muscaria. ;)

:cool:

zoas23
07-01-2016, 12:58 PM
On more than one occasion have I achieved this effect, one time I was even speaking to myself. The two bodies had two different brains even. One was the normal physical consciousness and the other the true higher consciousness. It was a very peculiar feeling that I do not think I could have achieved by only looking at a mirror. To paraphrase McKenna no one is scared shitless before they are about to just sit and meditate. :)

Although I have looked in the mirror in a lucid dream once, but all that happened was that I woke up. Perhaps a fail safe to avoid feeback?

By the way with Soma you don't mean physical body, but rather Amanita Muscaria. ;)

Are you coming here to clean the coffee I just spilled all over the screen when I laughed or I will have to clean it by myself?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant with the mirror... if we place our consciousness on the "other side"... then the strangest things happen on "our side".
That's for sure on of my favorite forms of meditation, even if it's not truly my most "typical" one.

By the way... note how most of the Gnostic myths (both Pagan and Christian) involve a "character" that looks at his own reflection, in most cases in the water, and creates a "double consciousness" (in all the cases I remember, this is shown as something negative... BUT there is also a positive way to do it).