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Awani
07-01-2016, 07:26 PM
Let me speak for the whole human race, why not?

What we all want, basically, is some of the following in some degree or another: love (partner, family, friends), a home to keep us dry and warm, food and peace.

100 000 years ago, and now in 2016, we still want the same things. This false propaganda that we have evolved and achieved so many things do not impress me.

We still yearn for these basic things. None of our technological or political advancements has given us any of those things. In a sense it has made it even more difficult these days to just live the simple life. The further we go from the origin state of humanity the more confused and complicated we make it.

I am not saying we should de-evolve as a race, but I think as an individual I try to look at everything I do and see and experience from the perspective of a monkey man that is standing before the universe looking into the very concept of being conscious and physically alive in this strange realm.

Everyone knows money can't buy happiness, but it can buy comfort. But this is a lie that only the poor believe. The rich believe it even more.

All those things monkey man wondered about, the real questions, science has still failed to answer. And never will.

Look at the core of everyhing and you can easily see if it is empty, or a path to one of those simple things we need like love or home or food. If it is not don't do it. It only leads into an abyss of shit.

IMO.

:cool:

zoas23
07-01-2016, 09:03 PM
What we all want, basically, is some of the following in some degree or another: love (partner, family, friends), a home to keep us dry and warm, food and peace.


I like what you said here and this comment is somehow off topic, but very relevant for me because this is an "Alchemy Forum" and I've seen this mistake so many times...

Alchemy, Magic, Theurgy, Hermetic Orders, Spiritual Traditions... we all like at least one of these things (some of us like 'em all).

My advice to anyone is: do not get married to a Tradition (or Order or Practice).

The symbolism of a Marriage with your Higher Self (or whatever you want to call it) won't do the trick either.

Give yourself the time to find a partner in life... and I mean a partner made of human flesh, another human (no need to "get married", that's only a symbolism and I am talking about love... love doesn't need a marriage with papers, but you can do it if you want).

BUT I've seen in my life too many people getting "married" to a Tradition or a Philosophy... and it sounds like a fantastic choice for some people... but in the end... that's a very sad choice. Find someone with whom you can SHARE your experiences, discoveries, life, love... This person, and this person is a human, will some day become more important for you than the Philosopher's Stone.

ALL the secrets and mysteries of Alchemy won't make you REALLY happy if you don't have someone with whom you can share them.

Finally... each culture has a different finger that is dedicated to the symbolism of the wedding ring. If for some reason you have a ring that you feel that links you to the Tradition that you like, it's OK to use it... and you have 10 fingers. Choose any of the remaining 9 fingers you have... but never place a ring in that "special finger" that your culture assigns to the "wedding rings", unless it's a ring that you use as a "wedding ring" with another person (it doesn't matter if there is a legal marriage or not). Never replace your partner or your potential partner with a "Tradition", "Order", "Philosophy", "etc"...

The last words that William Burroughs wrote in his journal before his death:

https://claude101.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/vlcsnap-2011-04-06-22h09m15s571.png

Dendritic Xylem
07-02-2016, 03:50 PM
This is why my occupation of choice is farming.
We want love, a home, and peace...but we don't absolutely need those to survive.
There are plenty of people who live without love, home, or peace...albeit perhaps unhappily.

But the one thing we absolutely cannot ignore, is food.
Far too many people in the industrialized nations take food and its availability for granted.
I think this will change in the future...

A quote from George Soros's old business partner, Jim Rogers...

The stock brokers are going to be the ones driving taxis in the future, and the farmers are going to be the ones driving Lamborghinis.



This is a good thread.
I often think about the deleterious consequences of a purely technocratic society, as well as our current plutocratic system.

Awani
07-02-2016, 07:02 PM
There are plenty of people who live without love, home, or peace...albeit perhaps unhappily.

Yes, I just mean those things are what we all want for spiritual/mental satisfaction.

:cool:

Ghislain
07-03-2016, 01:19 AM
Just for you Dendritic Xylem ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMLFLhw3UGs

I don't know if this is true, but I does raise a question.

Ghislain

Dendritic Xylem
07-03-2016, 04:16 AM
Yes, I haven't yet discounted the possibility of sustaining oneself purely on prana or sm.
Some say that humans are meant to evolve toward this eventually.
But 99.9999% of us haven't figured it out yet.

I would love to not have to worry about physical food!

Awani
09-14-2016, 12:12 PM
Yes, I haven't yet discounted the possibility of sustaining oneself purely on prana or sm.
Some say that humans are meant to evolve toward this eventually.
But 99.9999% of us haven't figured it out yet.

I would love to not have to worry about physical food!

That's is where VR comes in, eventually total upload of consciousness. The AI will be the uploaded humans in a way. No need to eat when it is a digital world that is eternal.

Now this might already have happened, so our amnesia is the reason we think we need to eat.

:cool:

Andro
09-14-2016, 12:26 PM
No need to eat when it is a digital world that is eternal.

Eternal - as long as it stays plugged in to a power source (it STILL needs to 'eat', no matter how we spin it) and of course as long as the tech doesn't break down beyond i's own AI ability to self-repair.

Awani
09-14-2016, 12:43 PM
Yes but an hour here could be 100 life time there. As for power source it will probably be free energy kind of deal. What power source runs this reality? Perhaps just one single breath, one single thought, of "God". Allegorically speaking.

Code does not have to be seperate from what you call un-created energy/force (etc). It can all be the same thing. Only our perspective project code or non-code regardless what the source of our knowing is.

I know what I know, and no one else can know it. And others can know what they know, and I will never be able to know it. But this knowing, at its core, is the same knowing when it is stripped of all bias, projection, ego etc. Because even the most knowing person is still limited by his/her perspective.

I guess this is why I deem altered states of perception to be so powerful, because it is not leaving the body... It is leaving the mind.

Anyhow I don't claim to know anything, I know what I know. LOL. This makes it very hard for me to find any point in talking or writing. There is nothing for me to say. So why continue? Well, habits are hard to break.

Perhaps just a phase...

Started watching Mr. Robot. Had I seen this ten years ago it would have been an amazing series, but now I just feel "so what" when I watch it. Don't know why I suddenly felt like mentioning this... just feel everything is a joke even the very things that tries to expose the joke. Kindergarten stuff. IMO. LOL.

True sanity is what being sane feels like. ;) I think the next few years is going to be a lot of changes in my life. The time has come.

:cool:

Andro
09-14-2016, 03:08 PM
I guess this is why I deem altered states of perception to be so powerful, because it is not leaving the body... It is leaving the mind.

For me, perception = mind and 'altered states' = 'Kindergarten stuff' - but again, why bother agreeing or disagreeing... This is the part "I" really/truly agree with, about trying to communicate what one labels as 'knowing'... Habits die hard, indeed... But they do die, eventually... Good news!


Just feel everything is a joke even the very things that tries to expose the joke. Kindergarten stuff. IMO. LOL.

It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye/I... Well, we all find out sooner or later :) ...

One 'exposes' something every time one is presenting it 'in a different light' or 'from a different perspective' than it used to be presented... So calling it 'Kindergarten stuff' = exposing it as Kindergarten stuff -> is also Kindergarten stuff! :p Exposing the exposers who expose other exposers, etc...

What an expos!

Andro
09-14-2016, 03:33 PM
What power source runs this reality?

Hmm...

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Battery.jpg

:confused:


The time has come.

'The time' comes & goes... perhaps until:

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NeoLiberated.jpg

:cool:


---------------------------------------------------

Awani
09-14-2016, 09:11 PM
For me, perception = mind and 'altered states' = 'Kindergarten stuff'...

Based on personal experience it clearly is not (even when I tried make it so). Although Mr. Robot is, which is the thing what I called "kindergarten".


Exposing the exposers who expose other exposers, etc...

I'm not trying to expose (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4680-Offering) anything, but one thing I would like to expose is semantics. Whatever a person writes can be "turned upside down", and if one is skilled this can be done quite well... but in all honesty it is utterly meaningless, because the "semantics" (or projection of the listener) of every single person is different and if the listener is not "in tune" exactly with the "speaker", then whatever is being said can be "flipped". The end result of this is always stalemate from my perspective, and never furthers whatever philosophical argument that is being present. We are all guilty of this behavior to some degree, and it is very easily done so one can do it and not even realize it.

Which is another reason for me to repeat my position: that there is really nothing to say... besides (considering the topic of this thread) if there is something I want I already have it, which means I don't need to try and get it.


This is the part "I" really/truly agree with, about trying to communicate what one labels as 'knowing'... Habits die hard, indeed... But they do die, eventually...

Yeah I know. ;)


'The time' comes & goes... perhaps until:

http://liberatelife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NeoLiberated.jpg

This is my point. There is no "until", because this has already happened. So it doesn't come and go. It already is. The reason I wrote "the time has come", is unrelated to everything else I wrote and only related to "my own life"... so when I wrote that "YOU" thought about what your reply was... which was the correct reaction for you, but semantically utterly irrelevant and unrelated to the statement I made, what it meant and why I stated it. It's that "semantic" problem I mentioned earlier. Not complaining about it, or exposing this (as I said we all do this to some degree)... just offering that this is my reaction to this specific reply.

:cool:

Andro
09-14-2016, 09:49 PM
there is really nothing to say...

Indeed... And so many words to do so :) ...

Awani
09-14-2016, 09:51 PM
Perhaps the problem is not only that "there is nothing to say", but if there is something to say it is practically impossible to say it. LOL.

:cool:

JDP
09-14-2016, 11:30 PM
We all want these:

http://i.investopedia.com/content/short_article/why_gold_and_silver_/shutterstock_203849551_gold_silver.jpg

No matter how much some pretend to deny it, we all want them in our pockets/vaults/coffers, loads of them. Why? Because they can easily provide two of the essential things that are the subject of this thread:

1- a home to keep us dry and warm

2- food

Some even would say that they can buy "love" too, but it depends on your definition of the word. Peace and true love, though, have to be acquired in a different way.

Axismundi000
09-15-2016, 12:08 PM
I'm not a Christian.

Yet the saying man cannot live by bread alone springs to mind.

Speaking personally I have yet to meet a happy, contented materialist but I'm sure they are out there.

Awani
09-15-2016, 01:10 PM
I'm not a Christian.

Yet the saying man cannot live by bread alone springs to mind.

Speaking personally I have yet to meet a happy, contented materialist but I'm sure they are out there.

There is no question some sort of income is needed to sustain life living in society, but large quantities of gold is not required. And wealth is not the answer, and funnily it is only poor people who think it is.

But this thread tried to go a bit deeper than what we need to survive, which is the same for all. And it is possible to live without money... But not if you want to run the rat race.

I have been poor. I have been not rich but well off and I have been in the middle, and emotionally I was at my lowest when I had the most material success... and emotionally at my highest when I had nothing. Compared to some poor areas I have travelled to I am super rich because where I live is one of the richest nations in the world... so a poor person here is rich in the ghettos of India. Relative. I am not blind to white privelege.

I have had things served to me since birth that the majority of the world could only dream about (food, free school and healthcare, free dentist, free to exist and believe whatever etc). I certainly appreciate my position in the world, but the suicide rate here is much higher than in some poor nations. Wealth does not equal happiness.

I have met a lot of poor people in Africa and other parts of the world and they all have a glow in them (even if they suffer). And I have spent time with rich people in suits, the white Elite that have everything and there is no glow in their dead empty eyes. No soul.

There are always exceptions, speaking generally based on my own experiences.

In short I agree with what you say. ;)

No amount of money can buy my integrity. I have had situations where I was once offered a very large sum to do a few months work for a political party and I told them to fuck off. Paracelsus said something along the lines of "don't concern yourself with things you cannot take with you when you die"... regardless if you believe in afterlife or not the only thing you bring with you in the moment of death is "what you did and who you are".

If you are scum, you die like scum.

:cool:

Awani
09-15-2016, 01:30 PM
If someone wants to give me 1 kg of gold for no reason I say thank you, but I rather have someone give the people I love a peaceful heart. I would not even need to think about which of the two I choose, and anyone who does is certainly not someone I want near my family.

Anyone seen Shallow Hal? That film is about thin/fat, but same concept could be applied to generous/greedy.

:cool:

Ghislain
09-16-2016, 01:19 AM
We all want these:

http://i.investopedia.com/content/short_article/why_gold_and_silver_/shutterstock_203849551_gold_silver.jpg

No matter how much some pretend to deny it, we all want them in our pockets/vaults/coffers, loads of them. Why? Because they can easily provide two of the essential things that are the subject of this thread:

1- a home to keep us dry and warm

2- food

Some even would say that they can buy "love" too, but it depends on your definition of the word. Peace and true love, though, have to be acquired in a different way.

JDP you tar everyone with the same brush...I think gold is pretty, but I have enough and need no more. I would wish a little gold on everyone, but you can't eat it, it won't comfort you when you are lonely, it doesn't buy friends or love and even if it did could you ever know?

I hope you find your fortune, then you can tell us what you think.

Ghislain

Awani
09-16-2016, 02:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srwxJUXPHvE

:cool:

zoas23
09-16-2016, 05:32 AM
We all want these:

http://i.investopedia.com/content/short_article/why_gold_and_silver_/shutterstock_203849551_gold_silver.jpg

No matter how much some pretend to deny it, we all want them in our pockets/vaults/coffers, loads of them. Why? Because they can easily provide two of the essential things that are the subject of this thread:

1- a home to keep us dry and warm

2- food

Some even would say that they can buy "love" too, but it depends on your definition of the word. Peace and true love, though, have to be acquired in a different way.

Hmmm... what?

Watch this film (or don't watch it, since the contents don't matter for this issue):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRjDrEm17Tk

This film costed me $15,000 (the TOTAL cost should be around $50,000 / $60,000... but a big part of the cost was financed by different institutions after applying for script contests).
How much did I get in return? $0
How much I EXPECTED to get in return? $0...

In short, I willingly *burned* $15,000 (though they became a film). I'm not a weirdo, I know hundreds of film makers who did the same... knowing that they were burning money and knowing that such money was not going to "come back" due to the nature of their films (there's something funny here, because when I made that movie, I filmed it in an analog film, the reactive part of the film that "captures" the light is made of silver... so it's literally *burning* silver).

Now... a band I admire a lot is the KLF! (Also known as "The K Foundation", "The Justified Ancients of Mu Mu", "The J.A.M.S")... They did something quite interesting: they willingly recorded music that was as commercial as possible (though with a clear mystical idea behind it) with the main aim of winning a million of (British) pounds. Once they reached such goal of earning a million... they retired from the music industry, the decatalogated the WHOLE of their albums, they made sure that the band was not going to produce any more money in any possible way... and they burnt ALL the money that the band made (which was curiously almost all the money that its two members had in their pockets). In short: the whole point of the KLF was to show that it's easy to win a million and that you can also BURN IT.

In this part of a longer documentary about the KLF, they explain WHY they did such thing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk-A93GAdAI

Don't watch my movie, but watch this part of the KLF documentary... at least you'll have the point of view of two persons who thought the other way around and backed up their ideas with a concrete action (burning all the money they had). I don't see a way of assuming that they burnt all their money to have more money, when the result was that they end up almost broken... and it was not accidental.

Andro
09-16-2016, 12:39 PM
True sanity is what being sane feels like.

This reminds me of an older post from solomon levi:


Being "sane" is really just being fixed, stable in any given reality.
Going "insane" is simply volatilizing the fixed, returning order to chaos, elements to QE (quintessence).

This is why in "proper" alchemy our mercury and sulphur act on eachother simultaneously,
fixing the volatile and volatilizing the fixed, spiritualizing matter and materializing spirit, creating a perfect rebis/androgyne.
If you push it too far, too many eagles, our subject will go insane - i.e. volatilise right through the vessel and be 'lost'.

In Castaneda terms, your shields/ego/doing gives you stability/security. You have to find a 'crack' (not-doing) in this
'world'/egg shell/protection/armor and expand it to glimpse infinity. But don't throw away your shields all at once.
You have to lose your mind/human form gradually, pushing, yet maintaining, sanity. It's walking the razor's edge.

Plant allies are used when necessary to begin the 'crack', but reliance upon them is insanity/addiction. Some are very "jealous Gods".
In "proper alchemy" one should learn to use their will/sulphur to follow the path that has been shown by the ally/mercury.
This will make one strong and pliant enough to not be ripped apart by infinity - a balanced rebis.

solomon levi
09-16-2016, 03:04 PM
i heard my name :) haha. <3

Ghislain
09-16-2016, 06:53 PM
Thanks Zoas23, two wonderful films, I have to say I was a little lost in the first :)

I think money, as useful as it is, can be a prison or an enslaver...what those guys did was to show they are not slaves to a pile of paper that others place value on in faith.
They did it! Many others would not or could not have done it. They explained that they could have wasted it on drink, drugs, swimming pool or whatever and people would
have less angst about it. People were angry because someone had belittled their faith in the god money. Had they given it to some starving people they would have been
hailed as true philanthropists, but soon those people would be starving again, much of it lost to corrupt organisers.

Loved the quote by Solomon Levi :)

I think you could look at what they did as a western version of the Buddhist Monks Sand Mandalas, although not quite as impressive :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYVcjFhpsHc

Just one other point, if they had not done it then no one would be opining about it now ;)

Ghislain