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Ghislain
08-04-2016, 04:16 PM
I say that consciousness is the Prima Materia.


Prima Materia is the primitive formless base of all matter similar to chaos, the quintessence, or aether. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_materia)
From Wikipedia.

Consciousness brings everything into existence; without consciousness every thing ceases to exist.

Ghislain

Andro
08-04-2016, 04:32 PM
Consciousness is related to perception, not to existence. I see existence as completely independent from consciousness.

If anything, consciousness is required to project & perceive that which doesn't really 'exist'.
______
I.M.S.I.

Ghislain
08-04-2016, 06:58 PM
Andro what is the relation of consciousness to perception, and if one does not perceive something does it exist?

Ghislain

Andro
08-04-2016, 07:13 PM
Andro what is the relation of consciousness to perception, and if one does not perceive something does it exist?

1. Consciousness is needed for the perception/projection feedback loop, it is however not needed for KNOWING.

KNOWING is fully independent from perception, (sensory) data input/output, independent from time, space, memory, etc...

2. What exists cannot be KNOWN via perception. Perception (and Projection) are only for what doesn't really exist.

What EXISTS does not require projection/perception, it is absolutely independent of it.

KNOWING/Gnosis cannot arise from perception/data/etc... Certainly not from the mind... What most people today call "Gnosis" is no more than Projection/Perception Mental Flip-Fuck, rooted in duality.
______
I.M.S.I.

Ghislain
08-04-2016, 07:22 PM
How do we define consciousness?

Is a rock conscious, because the particles that make it up hold it in that particular state...is that a conscious effort?

Can something that is not conscious know?

Ghislain

Andro
08-04-2016, 08:01 PM
How do we define consciousness?

We don't. It defines itself. Feedback loop, etc...


Is a rock conscious, because the particles that make it up hold it in that particular state... is that a conscious effort?

To a lesser degree than people, but yes, I would say so. But not because of the particles making an effort. Particles can be loosely compared to tiny "rocks", for the sake of this discussion.

Remember the carriage example from my talk in Amsterdam in 2014? The is no carriage, only a bunch of ideas/concepts making up a "bigger" idea/concept.


Can something that is not conscious know?

Yes.

On the other hand, "something" that IS conscious can only project & perceive, but it cannot KNOW.

Awani
08-04-2016, 08:56 PM
Related...


We don't. It defines itself. Feedback loop, etc...

Feedback and Reception (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4795-Feedback-amp-Reception)

:cool:

Ghislain
08-05-2016, 01:29 PM
I am not talking here of “self Consciousness”, I believe that everything that exists is present in consciousness. Even thoughts exist in a mind that is present in consciousness.


Creature Consciousness

An animal, person or other cognitive system may be regarded as conscious in a number of different senses.


Sentience.
Wakefulness.
Self-consciousness.
What it is like.
Subject of conscious states.
Transitive Consciousness.

State consciousness

The notion of a conscious mental state also has a variety of distinct though perhaps interrelated meanings. There are at least six major options.


States one is aware of.
Qualitative states.
Phenomenal states.
What-it-is-like states (as in Creature Consciousness above).
Access consciousness.
Narrative consciousness.

Source: Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy – Consciousness (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/consciousness/#HisIss)

From the source article I have just taken some of the headings, and this only scratches the surface of the article. However, although I appreciate these explanations of how one can look at consciousness, this is not the type of consciousness that I am referring to.

I am referring to a universal consciousness that does not belong to a particular object, but to all objects; it is not of the mind, but the mind is a part of it. Nothing exists in the universe unless it is within the universal consciousness; not even a thought!

What came first, the consciousness or the universe?

Ghislain

Loki Morningstar
08-05-2016, 08:24 PM
Ghislain:

This consciousness you talk of. How would you define it?

What is it?

What is it made from?

What does it do?

What makes you think it exists?

Etc.

P.s. Thanks for the link, really enjoying it. :)

Ghislain
08-05-2016, 08:32 PM
Loki Morningstar, I think it is the originator of the data stream I am seeking, the pattern giver to the particles, that is how we get the complex order from the chaos. It is the enthalpy that feeds on entropy to create anew; ectropy.

or maybe not ;)

Ghislain

Loki Morningstar
08-05-2016, 09:01 PM
Right, so what is the data stream?

And if our consciousness has a consciousness at the root, then how does that consciousness work? The same as ours?

Ghislain
08-05-2016, 09:36 PM
I don't think we have an individual consciousness, I think we tap into a universal consciousness.

If I could use the computer as an example once again, we have a capacity for storage, like an inbuilt hard-drive (memory). We have an ALU to do minor calculations, which we call logic (the brain). We have our input devices, which we call our senses (ears, eyes, nose, nervous system...etc.). going along these lines consciousness is the internet and from this we get our intuition and gut feelings, but that is just a part of it, for everything that exists relies on the conscious connection; it is all one.

We think...that is just a function of what we are. A rock sits still and sometimes crumbles...that is just a function of what a rock is. I wouldn't make a very good rock, can't say the same for the rock ;)

It is our ego that makes us believe we are so much more, that is not to detract from how wonderfully amazing we actually are, as is everything else.

Ghislain

Ghislain
08-05-2016, 09:48 PM
Here is a point I like to ponder...

If I drove a car that nobody knew I had into a forest that nobody frequented and left it there, then what would be the point of it still being there after I cease to exist (ashes to ashes fermions to bosons).

The point is that every action is uploaded and becomes what we call reality. Where is it uploaded to? A Collective Consciousness.

Ghislain