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Loki Morningstar
08-11-2016, 06:12 PM
Hi Guys.

I found some interesting information regarding selenium dissolving gold (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja02018a005?journalCode=jacsat). Leaving a Red/Yellow solution. And as far as I am aware selenium is not overly harmful to the human body. In fact there are many places that say it is good for you.

Due to remembering that selenium fluoresces, I then thought about the fact that alchemists had cups made of a wood that when water was put into them, would make the water fluoresce, Kidney wood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignum_nephriticum). Could this be the water that is talked of?

I started thought about the fact that fluorescence is due to the chemical catching radiation and then emits any radiation that it cannot contain. Could this radiation be seen as the prima materia?

Then thought about how the Hawthorn tree was sacred to many ancient cultures. The hawthorn is known to contain selenium. Talked of in many ancient cultures, it was said to be scared to: Isis, Ishtar, Moses, the Israelites, and the fairy people of Ireland. The fairy people of Ireland, or Tuatha Dé Danann, were said to be blue. Perhaps from drinking colloid silver dissolved in the selenium from the hawthorn berry?

Also I have heard much about selenium being an important component of telomeres and DNA.

I just wondered if anyone had done any work with selenic acid, or had any more info to share?

I think if I was to get into Practical Alchemy, this is certainly where I would start.

Loki Morningstar
08-12-2016, 07:58 PM
I was just thinking. Beings it is so close to sulphur on the elemental table, and supposedly has similar qualities. Could it be the second sulphur people are looking for?

Loki Morningstar
08-12-2016, 09:54 PM
Just found a great article on dissolving gold with selenic acid. It's a download though.

Dissolving Gold with Selenic Acid (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwi0sN3e7bzOAhUIBcAKHctXAJUQFgg4MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fir.library.oregonstate.edu%2Fxml ui%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F1957%2F53539%2FEddyLowel lPerry1948.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1&usg=AFQjCNGi9oGaNcmipzcRRzin_gqduDnDEQ&sig2=cWp8Vrqvr202sGshEpmCaw)

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 03:08 PM
Also turns out that it's name comes from the Greek word for moon. So I don't know if that means anything to anyone?

And was likely what was referred to as “red sulfur” in the writings of Arnold of Villanova, in the 13th century.

And Also turns out that it's name comes from the Greek word for moon. So I don't know if that means anything to anyone?

And was likely what was referred to as “red sulfur” in the writings of Arnold of Villanova, in the 13th century.

And selenium occurs in protein in the form of an amino acid called selenocysteine.

ghetto alchemist
08-14-2016, 08:43 PM
And was likely what was referred to as “red sulfur” in the writings of Arnold of Villanova, in the 13th century.

Which writings? Can you give us some specific references?

Remember that alchemy was practiced as far back as the time of Jesus (Eg Mary the Jewess).
Seems like a bit of an anachronism to suggest people were using Selenic acid 2000 years ago.
Where do you suppose they got it from?

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 09:55 PM
Hi Ghetto Alchemist,

Thank for your reply, I am quite new to this, It will be nice to have someone with more knowledge than me to talk about it with.

As for specific writings, I know not currently, although shall do some research to attempt to find out. I'll get back to you if I find anything.

As for where can it be got from. Pretty much everywhere. It seems that it is in practically every living thing as it makes up part of DNA. And also there are many plants that are high in selenium, such as Hawthorn. Which was highly sacred to the people of the British isles, and happens to originate in Egypt. So is likely something that would have common to them also.

It is my theory that Alchemy, in its oldest form, most likely started in herbology, and so it would be likely that Alchemists of the past would have had great knowledge of plant materials. So this could be a high possibility in my eyes. Although I would appreciate your more experienced opinions on the matter.

It seems that alchemists of the 1600s had a bit of a fascination with fluorescent materials, which I also thought may have been a bit of a clue. I am going to attempt to do some more research tonight, and see if there is anything more I can find.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 10:02 PM
Another little gem I have found. Related to the kidney wood.

Research on kidney wood from Calvin University (https://www.calvin.edu/academic/chemistry/faculty/muyskens/fluorescence/Narra%20preprint.pdf)

An article on organic selenium. (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01858a511)

How to isolate selenium from animal feed/distillers grains. (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0zDNBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=iso+organic+selenium&source=bl&ots=FifDKGAw61&sig=bpgJ3TTeTgs21b_cNvG5Ap1pwD0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUs-6V-8HOAhUpJ8AKHdQ-DCAQ6AEIRjAG#v=onepage&q=iso%20organic%20selenium&f=false)

Selenium benefits health, scientific paper. (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274315501_ISO_selenium_paper)

Skip to the conclusion. Paper is a bit words, but you can see all the research is there.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 10:58 PM
It seems selenium protects the body from heavy metals also.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 10:59 PM
Livestock grown in areas containing high amounts of selenium in the soil and in which a plant called Astragalus ("loco weed" in USA) is present are poisoned. This is because Astragalus concentrates selenium.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 10:59 PM
Selenium is occasionally found as the free element. Minerals are rare and selenium is normally extracted as a by-product from copper production. So it seems that as long as we have been able to produce copper we have had the by product of selenium, therefore, it is likely that alchemists would have been able to get their hands on it.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 11:06 PM
It also accumulates in the residues from sulphuric acid manufacture.

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 11:10 PM
This is related in some way also.

Tellurium wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellurium)

I have a feeling that if you invested in this right now you could make a killing...

This stuff is freaking cool! :D

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 11:26 PM
Antimony is pretty cool too eh? I never realised that this physical alchemy stuff could be so fun! Can you believe that Antimony(III) sulfide, Sb2S3, was recognized in predynastic Egypt as an eye cosmetic (kohl) as early as about 3100 BC, when the cosmetic palette was invented, and a copper object plated with antimony dating between 2500 BC and 2200 BC has been found in Egypt.

Wikipedia is so awesome! :D

Loki Morningstar
08-14-2016, 11:56 PM
I think I am quickly starting to realise that in my opinion Gold Should not be the goal of Neo-Alchemy. It seem there are plenty of rarer earth metals with greater use.

Man I love this universe in which we live. What a cool place.

Loki Morningstar
08-15-2016, 09:52 AM
It seem that the book of Arnold of Villanova (c. 1235-1311) that talks of "red sulphur" (sulphur rubeum), is 'Rosarium Philosophorum' which was found on the walls of chambers in which native sulphur was vaporised.

This is from the book 'Selenium in food and health' by 'C.Reilly'. It seems a relatively good book, and I think I might buy it.

Loki Morningstar
08-15-2016, 10:19 AM
Selenium trioxide SeO3, can be made by the action of sulphur trioxide on potassium selenate. (Cook the sulphur well with the sulphur?)

It is a white, crystalline, hydroscopic compound which dissolves in water to form selenic acid.

Loki Morningstar
08-15-2016, 10:48 AM
The organic compounds of selenium are considerable interest and several of them play important roles in biochemistry and nutrition. Organoselenium compounds are similar, but not identical, in chemistry and biochemical properties to organosulphur compounds. Because a increase in atomic number results in a decrease in bond stability, selenium compounds are less stable on exposure to light or heat and are more easily oxidised than are their sulphur analogues.

Many selenium compounds change colour on exposure to light or air and have unpleasant odours. To some extent, such properties discouraged investigators of these compounds in the past, understandably so, if we are to judge by a story related by Frost. This tells of a unfortunate experience of an organic chemist who worked on selenium at the University of Cambridge. His efforts at synthesis, we are told, led to such a stench that he moved to the roof of his lab to try again. "There, however, the horrible odour permeated all of Cambridge and even disrupted a ceremony at the university in memory of Darwin.

JDP
08-15-2016, 04:11 PM
I think I am quickly starting to realise that Gold is not the goal of Alchemy. It seem there are plenty of other rare earth metals with great use, that are actually rarer than gold...

The "realization" is wrong in this case since the alchemists knew nothing of these rare earth metals, as they had no way of reducing them back to their metallic forms. They were plenty acquainted with gold and silver, though, the two "noble" metals since remote antiquity, and thus that was always their goal.

Loki Morningstar
08-15-2016, 04:40 PM
I have edited my post. Hope it is more clear.

Loki Morningstar
08-16-2016, 09:31 PM
It is a shame this is so expensive, I would have liked to have read this. :(

Mice injected with gold and selenium (http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4613-0723-5_195)

Loki Morningstar
08-19-2016, 02:14 PM
Orgnoselenim has a vile smell when isolated. Then when purified turns red, and then black. Then when gold is added to selenic acid, leaves a golden white powder. I think I am onto something here. I am going to continue research into organoselenium. I am going to have to start getting a lab together and attempt to isolate some.

Loki Morningstar
08-19-2016, 04:23 PM
I wonder if Aurothiogluocose (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurothioglucose) could be produced with the sulphur replaced with selenium? I need to figure out the production techniques for Aurothioglucose, seems difficult to find anything on the net so far.

Loki Morningstar
08-19-2016, 06:03 PM
I have a feeling that the selenium may have been found in the spirit of (wheat) wine. This could perhaps be our water? It is amber after all. There is high selenium levels in wheat. And I wonder if we were to make wine from it, if this may work to get the selenium from the wheat.

This would also explain why the potable gold/mana was called 'bread'. And explains the dirty yellow colour of it.

Yet again. I need to attempt this, I need to get a lab.

Loki Morningstar
07-02-2017, 10:59 PM
Just dropping a few links here for prosperity and for anyone who is interested.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jp508419p

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FBadBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=Au25(SeR)18&source=bl&ots=7y09Or85pF&sig=tUDgHFpAl2IJaUyfv-9fRX3vWRs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqyqLP1uvUAhWHOsAKHaYZB1YQ6AEINjAC#v=on epage&q=Au25(SeR)18&f=false

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenyl_group

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organoselenium_chemistry

I have a feeling I am really onto something here regarding organo-selenium compounds.

Loki Morningstar
07-02-2017, 11:15 PM
Seems that brazil nuts are the best source for selenium. Perhaps it is time I set up a lab?