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zoas23
08-25-2016, 04:19 PM
A good friend of mine (Philippe) sent me a link to a translation of a work he did of a book by a friend of him (Paul Gregor), containing Gregor's account of his experience with Quimbanda in Brazil:

http://blockhaus.editions.free.fr/images/Inedits/Gregor/CIRCE.pdf

(This arrived to me 5 minutes ago, so I have not read it yet... but since Philippe never sends me bullshit, I assumed it was worth sharing).

I've also received from him quite recently high res scans (16 GB) of a MS he has in French of an unknown person who copied 3 alchemical texts in French in 1788. The first one is The Mirror of Alchemy by Jean de Mehun... The other 2 texts have never been published (his theory is that the French revolution was very suspicious of any mysticism and thus the texts did not get published because it was risky).

I will try to decipher them (they are not in any cipher, it's just that the hand-writing of this person is terrible and very hard to read -I need to zoom each word to the size of my whole screen as to read it) and translate them to Spanish and create a French copy in text (as opposed to handwriting). Can't say if they are interesting or not, because reading them is a nightmare... but it's nice to rescue two lost alchemical texts.

Illen A. Cluf
08-25-2016, 06:24 PM
A good friend of mine (Philippe) sent me a link to a translation of a work he did of a book by a friend of him (Paul Gregor), containing Gregor's account of his experience with Quimbanda in Brazil:

http://blockhaus.editions.free.fr/images/Inedits/Gregor/CIRCE.pdf

(This arrived to me 5 minutes ago, so I have not read it yet... but since Philippe never sends me bullshit, I assumed it was worth sharing).

I've also received from him quite recently high res scans (16 GB) of a MS he has in French of an unknown person who copied 3 alchemical texts in French in 1788. The first one is The Mirror of Alchemy by Jean de Mehun... The other 2 texts have never been published (his theory is that the French revolution was very suspicious of any mysticism and thus the texts did not get published because it was risky).

I will try to decipher them (they are not in any cipher, it's just that the hand-writing of this person is terrible and very hard to read -I need to zoom each word to the size of my whole screen as to read it) and translate them to Spanish and create a French copy in text (as opposed to handwriting). Can't say if they are interesting or not, because reading them is a nightmare... but it's nice to rescue two lost alchemical texts.

If you need help transcribing any of the French texts, let me know. I have some experience with interpreting old handwriting (mostly English but also some French texts).

JDP
08-25-2016, 07:12 PM
I've also received from him quite recently high res scans (16 GB) of a MS he has in French of an unknown person who copied 3 alchemical texts in French in 1788. The first one is The Mirror of Alchemy by Jean de Mehun... The other 2 texts have never been published

What are the other two texts?

Also, the "Mirror" attributed to Mehun appears to just be another version of the "Mirror" attributed to Bacon:

https://archive.org/stream/hin-wel-all-00001728-001#page/n8/mode/2up

zoas23
08-25-2016, 08:06 PM
What are the other two texts?

Also, the "Mirror" attributed to Mehun appears to just be another version of the "Mirror" attributed to Bacon:

https://archive.org/stream/hin-wel-all-00001728-001#page/n8/mode/2up

Yes, it's the Mirror of Alchemy (probably NOT by Bacon, but it's that work).

The other works are 2 sets of alchemical letters, though I still didn't understand what they are.

Posting low res photos of the index pages of the MS... I couldn't upload the high res ones because they are 30 MB each one. Maybe someone can identify them.


BOOK COVER:
https://s14.postimg.io/cfq1pdbvl/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_36_01_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 1:
https://s14.postimg.io/bosq5uk4h/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_36_41_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 2:
https://s14.postimg.io/zd8814go1/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_06_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 3:
https://s14.postimg.io/avg4d8e3l/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_22_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 4 and FINAL:
https://s14.postimg.io/6wiwuepgh/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_52_p_m.p ng

A SAMPLE OF THE BEGINNING OF THE 1st LETTER of the "second set of letters":
https://s14.postimg.io/6owsoftxt/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_57_49_p_m.p ng

I still have not devoted the time to investigate what they are... the first book is well known, the letters, I think they have not been published (or at least that's what my friend believes).

As for accepting help to transcribe the text of the letters... I will need to talk about it with him, because he is a friend, but also a publisher and I think he may want to publish it himself (in French), but gave me his permission to translate it to Spanish and publish it in Spanish myself because we know each other since almost 20 years ago.

IF they are of worth, it could be possible to talk to him about an English translation... I am not too sure about WHAT they are and if they are of worth.

JDP
08-25-2016, 08:38 PM
Yes, it's the Mirror of Alchemy (probably NOT by Bacon, but it's that work).

The other works are 2 sets of alchemical letters, though I still didn't understand what they are.

Posting low res photos of the index pages of the MS... I couldn't upload the high res ones because they are 30 MB each one. Maybe someone can identify them.


BOOK COVER:
https://s14.postimg.io/cfq1pdbvl/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_36_01_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 1:
https://s14.postimg.io/bosq5uk4h/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_36_41_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 2:
https://s14.postimg.io/zd8814go1/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_06_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 3:
https://s14.postimg.io/avg4d8e3l/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_22_p_m.p ng

INDEX PAGE 4 and FINAL:
https://s14.postimg.io/6wiwuepgh/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_37_52_p_m.p ng

A SAMPLE OF THE BEGINNING OF THE 1st LETTER of the "second set of letters":
https://s14.postimg.io/6owsoftxt/Captura_de_pantalla_2016_08_25_a_las_4_57_49_p_m.p ng

I still have not devoted the time to investigate what they are... the first book is well known, the letters, I think they have not been published (or at least that's what my friend believes).

As for accepting help to transcribe the text of the letters... I will need to talk about it with him, because he is a friend, but also a publisher and I think he may want to publish it himself (in French), but gave me his permission to translate it to Spanish and publish it in Spanish myself because we know each other since almost 20 years ago.

IF they are of worth, it could be possible to talk to him about an English translation... I am not too sure about WHAT they are and if they are of worth.

The text that comes after the "Mirror" seems to be a work by Bernard Trevisan, or extracts from a work by that author ("Le Texte d'Alchimie, extrait de Trevisan".)

The "Letters" section appears to begin on page 61. They seem to have been written in 1786. The initials of the correspondents seem to be a "W.B." or "M.B." and the other a "W.H." or "M.H." The last letter seems to identify the one who has a "B" initial as "Borreavile", or "Bopreavile", or "Bopruavile", or "Borreuvile", or something along those lines.

By the way, the handwriting is actually not that bad, a lot of it can be understood. You should see some of the manuscripts I and a couple of other people around here have had to deal with. One of them, a German text, was written in so atrocious a handwriting that I actually had to hire a professional German paleographer to take a look at it, because nobody I knew who understood German could decipher the handwriting. And even the professional paleographer was not able to understand everything (she managed to nail like 90% of the text, though, very impressive.)

JDP
08-25-2016, 11:54 PM
Note: Page 44 contains "The Third Part" of the text by Bernard Trevisan, which seems to be the last one the scribe copied. On page 55 there apparently begins another text. It is "about the matter of the universal spirit or solvent". On page 58 there seems to be an opuscule apparently dealing with the "philosophical" distillation. On page 61 there is an entry about "the preparation of the oil" and some other preparation, which I have not quite understood what word it is yet. On this same page is for the first time mentioned a letter by the "W.B" or "M.B." fellow who appears in the series of 1786 letters that begin on page 73. On page 65 there is an entry about "the magnet of the sages" and on page 68 "a note on the oak" (it seems to say "chene", which is "oak" in French.)

zoas23
08-26-2016, 08:59 AM
Note: Page 44 contains "The Third Part" of the text by Bernard Trevisan, which seems to be the last one the scribe copied. On page 55 there apparently begins another text. It is "about the matter of the universal spirit or solvent". On page 58 there seems to be an opuscule apparently dealing with the "philosophical" distillation. On page 61 there is an entry about "the preparation of the oil" and some other preparation, which I have not quite understood what word it is yet. On this same page is for the first time mentioned a letter by the "W.B" or "M.B." fellow who appears in the series of 1786 letters that begin on page 73. On page 65 there is an entry about "the magnet of the sages" and on page 68 "a note on the oak" (it seems to say "chene", which is "oak" in French.)

Thank you JDP!

I'll check the work by Trevisan... the fact that it begins with "Mirror" is fantastic, because I'll use a better version of the text in French to see if he copied the same translation as to get used to his handwriting... and the final result will be publishing the text in Spanish and giving a copy to my friend in French... and then he'll be able to negotiate with English publishers. So probably the outcome will be that it will get published in these three languages.

I have to finish other projects before, but this *nightmare* of terrible handwriting will be my adventure in the future. Only *God* knows if the non-published parts here are of worth or not, but I'll take the chance.

Illen A. Cluf
08-26-2016, 02:42 PM
The handwriting seems to be extremely clear and easy to read. It should not be difficult to make a decent transcription of the French.

JDP
08-26-2016, 02:52 PM
Thank you JDP!

I'll check the work by Trevisan... the fact that it begins with "Mirror" is fantastic, because I'll use a better version of the text in French to see if he copied the same translation as to get used to his handwriting... and the final result will be publishing the text in Spanish and giving a copy to my friend in French... and then he'll be able to negotiate with English publishers. So probably the outcome will be that it will get published in these three languages.

I have to finish other projects before, but this *nightmare* of terrible handwriting will be my adventure in the future. Only *God* knows if the non-published parts here are of worth or not, but I'll take the chance.

The text by Trevisan seems like it might very well be this one ("The Book of the Natural Philosophy of Metals"), divided into 4 parts:

http://www.e-rara.ch/cgj/content/pageview/1423771

If it is the same text, then the scribe of your manuscript only copied 3 parts, or selections from the first 3 parts, which would explain why he refers to what he copied as "extracts" from "the text of alchemy" by Trevisan.

You can give parts of the unpublished texts to others to help you examine the contents. If you get permission from your friend, I'll be glad to take a look at some of the unpublished parts (like the short entries on pages 55 to 68) and report back to you on whatever I can manage to read. I am sure that so will Illen A. Cluf be happy to help you out.

JDP
08-26-2016, 03:00 PM
The handwriting seems to be extremely clear and easy to read. It should not be difficult to make a decent transcription of the French.

Did you manage to decipher what is the last word in the second entry of page 61? The first entry clearly says "Preparation de l'huile". The next entry says "Preparation de (?)"

Illen A. Cluf
08-26-2016, 03:20 PM
Did you manage to decipher what is the last word in the second entry of page 61? The first entry clearly says "Preparation de l'huile". The next entry says "Preparation de (?)"

Yes, it says: "Préparation des mèches", or "Preparation of the candewicks" (or "wicks" or "locks"). Perhaps it has something to do with luting. Or it might be the preparation of some absorbent material which will draw up the oil prepared in the previous step.

JDP
08-26-2016, 03:46 PM
Yes, it says: "Préparation des mèches", or "Preparation of the candewicks" (or "wicks" or "locks"). Perhaps it has something to do with luting. Or it might be the preparation of some absorbent material which will draw up the oil prepared in the previous step.

OK, thanks for clearing that word up.

Or maybe it is some sort of "analogy" or "deckname" for something else. Like probably the "oak" mentioned in a note further down.

Illen A. Cluf
08-26-2016, 03:52 PM
OK, thanks for clearing that word up.

Or maybe it is some sort of "analogy" or "deckname" for something else. Like probably the "oak" mentioned in a note further down.

That's possible. Oak is a common decnamen, but I don't think I have previously seen the word "candlewick" or "wick" used as one. Then again it could also mean "lock" as opposed to "key". Lot's of "if's", but the content should clear it up.

"Lock" has been used previously as a decnamen by Cyliani in "Hermes Unveiled":

"Determined to win or perish, I furiously seized my spear with one hand and the substance in the other and put a sufficient quantity of this latter on the lock. In a little while the lock disappeared entirely and the two leaves of the door to the temple opened with a loud noise. My eyes fell on a fierce dragon who was endowed with an enormous three pointed tongue with which he sought to throw his fatal breath on me."

Hellin Hermetist
08-26-2016, 05:12 PM
Yes, it says: "Préparation des mèches", or "Preparation of the candewicks" (or "wicks" or "locks"). Perhaps it has something to do with luting. Or it might be the preparation of some absorbent material which will draw up the oil prepared in the previous step.

Most probably the author gives practical instructions about the construction of the lantern that will keep the matter warm during the many stages of the Opus. He may describe what type of oil we have to use
and from what substances we have to make the wick, so as to create a lantern that shall be able to burn for the biggest time possible and in the same time consume the least quantity of oil. That point was crucial those old times, as they didnt have electric heaters and other modern apparatus. Von Batsdorff has also given instructions of that type.

Illen A. Cluf
08-26-2016, 06:23 PM
Most probably the author gives practical instructions about the construction of the lantern that will keep the matter warm during the many stages of the Opus. He may describe what type of oil we have to use
and from what substances we have to make the wick, so as to create a lantern that shall be able to burn for the biggest time possible and in the same time consume the least quantity of oil. That point was crucial those old times, as they didnt have electric heaters and other modern apparatus. Von Batsdorff has also given instructions of that type.

Interesting thought!

JDP
08-26-2016, 06:38 PM
Most probably the author gives practical instructions about the construction of the lantern that will keep the matter warm during the many stages of the Opus. He may describe what type of oil we have to use
and from what substances we have to make the wick, so as to create a lantern that shall be able to burn for the biggest time possible and in the same time consume the least quantity of oil. That point was crucial those old times, as they didnt have electric heaters and other modern apparatus. Von Batsdorff has also given instructions of that type.

Maybe, but people back then did not usually waste much time and money in strange and complicated preparations of something which only purpose was just to burn. They already had many naturally-occurring or man-refined flammable materials as choices for fuel. The final answer regarding whether these two entries refer to something as relatively trivial as fuels and wicks or to something more "arcane" appertaining to alchemy, properly, will come after examination of those two entries in question.

zoas23
08-26-2016, 09:02 PM
The handwriting seems to be extremely clear and easy to read. It should not be difficult to make a decent transcription of the French.

My friend himself (who is French), can't read several pages without scanning them and printing them in poster size.

As for using the help of others, I would need to talk about it with my friend, it's way beyond what I can decide. Though the text will be published sooner or later. I have a few projects before doing such thing, but it's already in my to-do list. My friend is a rabid publisher*, so I assume his intention is to publish it himself (in French).

*He translates some 10-15 books per year to French.

P.S, Thanks JDP for letting me understand better what is the text I have... it will make everything easier.

Illen A. Cluf
08-27-2016, 12:34 AM
My friend himself (who is French), can't read several pages without scanning them and printing them in poster size.

As for using the help of others, I would need to talk about it with my friend, it's way beyond what I can decide. Though the text will be published sooner or later. I have a few projects before doing such thing, but it's already in my to-do list. My friend is a rabid publisher*, so I assume his intention is to publish it himself (in French).

*He translates some 10-15 books per year to French.

P.S, Thanks JDP for letting me understand better what is the text I have... it will make everything easier.

No problem. Just offering help if you need it.

zoas23
08-31-2016, 12:19 AM
No problem. Just offering help if you need it.

Thank you, Illen.
The intention is to make the text available... HOWEVER the "job" of the person who gave me this pdf is being a publisher... The text obviously has no copyright. So I am not in a position where I can give this text to others, because I would be acting against the "job" of my friend.

My general tendency is to blindly trust people until they show me that I was wrong... but I can't use my usual "policy" when a third person (my friend) is involved.
It's not that I distrust you... it's just that I can't do something that may eventually create a problem for a third person.

Other than that, I will try to speak to him about it... and if you are REALLY interested, then he eventually may want to negotiate something with you.