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Aleilius
01-28-2009, 02:57 AM
Should theurgy and practical alchemy be utilized together?

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My answer:

I believe that theurgy and practical alchemy are intertwined, one related to the other, and that they should always be utilized together. At the most fundamental level, alchemy is the manipulation of the invisible universal spirit. This by itself hints to a predisposition to theurgical practices in alchemy.

Human's have the inherent ability to manipulate the universal spirit. We can hold something in our mind's eye, and cause an influx of energy to come upon the subject. Thus, in a certain sense, our consciousness is a magnet for the invisible energy. We become part of the equation.

It's my contention that alchemy and theurgy, when practiced together, will always yield a superior result to those practicing "alchemy" without theurgy.

Salazius
01-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes, It should.

Theurgy is the volatile part, Alchemy the fixed part, mixed together ... it really can be good.

The sacred mass is this mixing, it is also the secret of the transubstantiation. On every levels of existence.

Theurgy can duplicate the effects of Alchemy on your consciousness and your bodies, and vice versa.

Lets do a venus invocation, just an invocation.
Lets take a Quintessence of Copper. Just the Quintessence.

Now, invoke and fix Venus in your Quintessence, and, ingest it in ritual.
That's not the same thing ! It's far powerful.

solomon levi
01-28-2009, 07:36 PM
This is my third time taking a serious interest
in alchemy over the past 15 years or so.

The second time ended because I had come to the conclusion
that alchemy and theurgy were inseperable, and theurgy at
that time seemed like more than I was prepared for -
a whole new arena.

At present, the most theurgy I utilise is with my own HGA
and some contact with alchemists in the astral realm.

kerkring
01-29-2009, 10:40 AM
In the Qabala course of the Philosophers of Nature it is written that the Qabala work presented only allows you to make contacts as high as Tiphereth and that to reach the higher Sephiroth you need proceed to do theurgy. Is this correct and can someone recommend some good works on practical theurgy?

Thanks,

solomon levi
02-05-2009, 06:43 AM
In the Qabala course of the Philosophers of Nature it is written that the Qabala work presented only allows you to make contacts as high as Tiphereth and that to reach the higher Sephiroth you need proceed to do theurgy. Is this correct and can someone recommend some good works on practical theurgy?

Thanks,

Aleister Crowley - Magick in theory and practice.

kerkring
02-05-2009, 07:07 AM
Aleister Crowley - Magick in theory and practice.

Thanks :)

Salazius
02-05-2009, 10:30 AM
huh Crowley ... quite a crazy man, really crazy. He was a genious in his kind, but really the craziest too.

Donald Micheal Kraig, "Modern Magic", complet and quite sure, then Franz Bardon, quite hard "initiation into hermetic" but a must read and very good, Denning & Phillips all their stuff is quite good. Cicero's, all the "golden dawn stuff", complet quite good and sure.
Donald Tyson, all his books are good, not the "necronomicon", and it's book on sex magic, which is quite dangerous.
Cunningham Scott, wicca, plants, stones, etc, quite good and safe.

Ilos
11-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Hey,
I was reading a bit about how to recharge the elixirs and after a wile I started surfing on the internet than I ran onto Theurgy, wile reading it made me think of those movies with alchemists lifting their stone up and saying Latin words. This awakes a thought in my head, how could Theurgy be related with Alchemy, can they be without one another?? maybe what makes the whole sense of Alchemy might be the practices of Theurgy...

Axismundi000
11-15-2012, 05:22 PM
Use of Theurgy and Thaumaturgy on the the materia is what has brought me to Alchemy. Many Alchemists on this forum who are far more knowledgable and practically experienced do what could be called pure alchemy without any added stuff which is perhaps more of an occam's razor approach.

There are many routes up the same mountain.

solomon levi
12-16-2012, 02:41 AM
It's been nearly four years since this thread was started and so much has changed for me.
But the relation between alchemy and theurgy has only gotten more intense and evident.

1. Alchemy was taught to man by beings that were not human.
2. Moses, Solomon and many renaissance alchemists practiced magic and communication with spirits
or inorganic beings.
3. Today I listened to an ormus conference call where yet another person producing very effective ormus
relates it with what he called 5th dimensional beings who instruct him in the work, just as Hudson and the
Essene mentioned "angels" which appear and give guidance or even have guardianship over the material.
4. Methods of collecting spiritus mundi involving nests and shielding and dimensional vortexing are very
similar, if not the same, as methods of invoking spirits into a protective sigil/talisman.
5. Jacob wrestled with an angel just as Castaneda had to wrestle an inorganic being. Don Juan supposedly
had several of these "allies" which were contained in a gourd which hung at his waist. And wasn't Moses
able to speak to IHVH through the Ark of the Covenant - an inorganic being again related to a nest/shield.

One is compelled to consider that perhaps the dangers of alchemy have more to do with the inorganic
beings which exists in the same dimension/twin world as the Spiritus Mundi does and that a vortex/gate
for SM is as easily used by such entities if the proper precautions are not taken. In some Gnostic views
Jehovah was not God, but was merely an entity which Moses magically invoked - and look at all the trouble
that entity caused according to the Old Testament.

Seth-Ra
12-16-2012, 05:29 AM
It's been nearly four years since this thread was started and so much has changed for me.
But the relation between alchemy and theurgy has only gotten more intense and evident.

1. Alchemy was taught to man by beings that were not human.
2. Moses, Solomon and many renaissance alchemists practiced magic and communication with spirits
or inorganic beings.
3. Today I listened to an ormus conference call where yet another person producing very effective ormus
relates it with what he called 5th dimensional beings who instruct him in the work, just as Hudson and the
Essene mentioned "angels" which appear and give guidance or even have guardianship over the material.
4. Methods of collecting spiritus mundi involving nests and shielding and dimensional vortexing are very
similar, if not the same, as methods of invoking spirits into a protective sigil/talisman.
5. Jacob wrestled with an angel just as Castaneda had to wrestle an inorganic being. Don Juan supposedly
had several of these "allies" which were contained in a gourd which hung at his waist. And wasn't Moses
able to speak to IHVH through the Ark of the Covenant - an inorganic being again related to a nest/shield.

One is compelled to consider that perhaps the dangers of alchemy have more to do with the inorganic
beings which exists in the same dimension/twin world as the Spiritus Mundi does and that a vortex/gate
for SM is as easily used by such entities if the proper precautions are not taken. In some Gnostic views
Jehovah was not God, but was merely an entity which Moses magically invoked - and look at all the trouble
that entity caused according to the Old Testament.


Very good observations Sol. :)


I myself have had a sort of "shamanic" journey through certain Biblical Patriarchal journeys, and encountering the various beings (Being?) has been very... interesting to say the least.
Ive always known the more i did in the lab, the more ive seen energies and entities, and not just me, but the rest of my house-hold. All of our works, possessing SM/Life in some form/fashion/vibration - as its increased and made alchemically powerful, attracts them - some to teach and help, others to devour and destroy (nothing like getting some living fire for the "solve" portion of the work eh? ;) ).
This is part of the danger of the Art, as well as its most beneficial aspects, just beware the "Serpent's Bite" - it takes many forms. ;)
Its the same deal with the djinn wanting the high-energy substances.

It is all very much so connected, and all very much so alive. Our technical/linear type minds often see a lot of the work as a simple system - but infact it is more appropriate to consider it all alive, each vibrational pattern, each matter used, each solvent, each coagulant, each entity; they are all aspects of the One, embodied for their frequency, just as we are a micro-cosmic, fractal representation of the One, in are frequency (even when we jump from wave to wave - we are what we are, a small collective of that piece, which is a reflection of the whole).

Theurgy is Spirit being communed with by its more subtle (volatile) laws. Chemistry is Spirit being worked with by its most vulgar (fixed) laws. The former dictates the latter though, which is a key to more advanced and subtler work, but the latter can attract and pull down the former, thus we have magnets.
Alchemy works the Living Being(s) as a whole, just as it works us as a whole. :cool:




Seth-Ra

solomon levi
12-16-2012, 10:58 AM
Theurgy is Spirit being communed with by its more subtle (volatile) laws. Chemistry is Spirit being worked with by its most vulgar (fixed) laws. The former dictates the latter though, which is a key to more advanced and subtler work, but the latter can attract and pull down the former, thus we have magnets.
Alchemy works the Living Being(s) as a whole, just as it works us as a whole. :cool:

Seth-Ra

Very well said/seen, Seth. :)

solomon levi
01-05-2013, 03:19 AM
http://books.google.com/books?id=fPxHEmzBVugC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=castaneda+allies+gourd+size+of+left+thumb&source=bl&ots=ntV_A6410j&sig=Csy6Ydozyn_gwlTg65UOebX0Dtg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TpjnUM8xivesAfvHgGg&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=castaneda%20allies%20gourd%20size%20of%20left%20 thumb&f=false

There are depths of this that I can't discuss at this time. It freaks me out and that means it would really freak some people out.
But the link shows a parallel to the sorcerers' flask/gourd and trapping a "mercury" inorganic (just means energy without organic substance)
hyperdimensional presence.
The area that gets deep is how the ego is an inorganic being, and so are its thought-forms.
We have trapped a part of ourselves dimensionally through self-reflection of ego/thinking.
This is perfectly alchemical.