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Salazius
09-07-2016, 03:04 PM
Hi there,

A question in running into my mind about the orientation of the Phi Stone.

Generally, after multiplication of any kind of Stone, there is an orientation, because it is said that the Stone is useless as such, for example, as medicine for human body, animals, vegetables & metals.

For metals, the white Stone is oriented and "fermented" with Silver. Here it is not the salt of Silver that matters most but its Sulfur. Same with Red Stone and Gold. So here, there is a necessity to fit the sulfurs to the state of evolution of the Stone. Easy to understand.
By dry path it is said to use one part of Stone on 3 of gold or silver. By wet method, it is the reverse. They don't always say these proportions, it can vary a lot, sometimes 1/10 or 10/1 etc.

Now, for a human medicine, it is generally said to simply extract the Stone with milk, or wine (White for White stone and red for red Stone ?). But wine has both a slight animal (by alcohol) and vegetal signature/Sulfur.
Spiritus Vini, pure, is said to be only "animal" and fitting, thus, to the human body in order to transport the Sulfur of the Stone inside the human structure. It is because alcohol can go through the encephalic barrier ? Who knows. I would, personnaly not use milk nor wine, because they are or vegetable, or animal, and not really human, but both accepted to the human body (we drink milk and eat grapes right ?). Maybe here I'm a bit purist ... but when it comes to the Stone, I am very cautious.

But there is no Sulfur here involved in the medium (clear spiritus vini, or clear water for plants, but dew has a sulfur...). Just a pure mercury. Why then not extracting the Stone with Saliva instead (white stone), or just orienting it with blood (red stone). Because there is a sulfur here that gives the signature of the body that will receive it.

It seems to be important to sign the Stone and to give it a good "fluidic" medium.

In gold it is the metallic "water" part, that gives fluidity to the metal when melted. And carrying the sulfur in its belly so to speak.

So, I'm still wondering if it is needed to use a sulfur in order to orient the Stone to a certain kingdom, and not just a mercury to make it fit to the kingdom that will receive it. It would be hard to eat a rock per se for a plant, or for a metal to absorb a salt without a metallic quality, so, there is a need for a medium to make available the Sulfur of the Stone, but a Sulfur ?

There is also a question of preservation of the Stone. As we know it, it is a salt. And as such, it is vulnerable. Why not then protecting it in a matrix ? We get a glass with stone + metals, and alcohol makes it more stable (no putrefaction possible).

There is also the question of the fumes of "inferiors" metals. When projecting the Stone for orientation, you don't have to use wax in order to protect it from gold since they have "the same nature" (The Stone is in a sense, the "same sulfur", but at a higher dosage), but, the glass you get, you need to wrap it in wax or paper in order to avoid any fumes coming from the lead, silver, or mercury, etc, to pollute the Stone.

So, don't we need then to protect the Stone/elixir from our breath ? From our mercurial part ? Maybe no, because it is less agressive. Maybe also we should not let dissolve the Stone on the tongue, in order to avoid any contact with the fire of saliva.

Because it is here a question of Mercurial nature, raw, crude, coming from the melted metals that could affect the metallic nature of the Projection Powder/Stone and thus its essential quality, its Sulfur. Or, it would pollute it, or, it would affect it, like, "killing" a bit the sulfur of the Stone. My guess is that it is both.

So, for a human body, shall we imagine that we don't need to make a contact with our breath ? I think so. Shall we avoid to swallow it ? Shall we avoid that the elixir goes through the acidic part of the Stomac that could greatly change the nature of the Sulfur of the Stone ? Shall we make instead an oil and apply it on a dry skin and let it go in the blood stream as such ?

I don't have yet answers, but if I have, then, I'll let you know.

Andro
09-07-2016, 03:15 PM
let it go in the blood stream

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/androgynus_album/Syringe_zpsuezd3haf.jpg

:cool:

Salazius
09-07-2016, 03:28 PM
I thought about that, but naturally the skin makes a filter and let enter only what is "good"/available for the body.

We can absorb it through several places, some are thiner. That's why binge drinkers use the rectum, vagina, eyes for example.

Andro
09-07-2016, 03:34 PM
I thought about that, but naturally the skin makes a filter and let enter only what is "good"/available for the body.
We can absorb it through several places, some are thinner. That's why binge drinkers use the rectum, vagina, eyes for example.

With a syringe it goes directly into the blood stream. For other ways, the thin skin just above the rectal opening is a very good gateway into the blood stream.

Also, regarding mixing it with blood and then drinking the 'transmuted' blood - there is already a rich tradition about this :) :) :)

Salazius
09-07-2016, 04:04 PM
Actually I doubt about the blood + Stone, since the nature of Blood is more Martian. But it can do the trick perfectly imo.

Using a syringe is not very natural to me, neither like taking the blood out of the body. Ingesting or putting on the skin seems, to me, more logical.

Just trying to investigate new ways :)

Philosophical
09-07-2016, 09:58 PM
In the days of old it is said that witches would make salve with pork lard in order to absorb certain otherwise poisonous plants (belladonna, henbane, aconite) into their blood for their otherworldly travels. While a little bit different in application maybe some kind of salve would be a more natural "carrier". The only problem with the this particular idea is that it's not exactly a human signature but apparently scientists like to use pigs to test things because their bodies are very similar ours.

Lux Natura
09-07-2016, 11:39 PM
Philosophical: Yes they called these "flying ointments", and, after tolerance had built up, they were applied to thinner membranes, in order to absorb more. The whole broomstick thing is more of an applicator than anything else.

Kiorionis
09-08-2016, 12:25 AM
Using a syringe is not very natural to me, neither like taking the blood out of the body. Ingesting or putting on the skin seems, to me, more logical.

It seems the orienting of the stone is all about imparting a digestive quality into any substance, so that substance can act towards its full capacity.

Using a syringe to inject anything into the blood stream doesn't allow the body to actually digest it, so it would have to be very digestible/pure before the injection. One reason people have allergic reactions to syringes is because undigested foodstuff is put into the bloodstream and our immune system marks it as invading. Very dangerous..

I feel as though the transference principle is at play behind the orientation of the Stone (Bardon's letter 'E' if you're familiar). To what capacity I don't know.

Chasm
09-08-2016, 01:18 AM
For metals, the white Stone is oriented and "fermented" with Silver. Here it is not the salt of Silver that matters most but its Sulfur. Same with Red Stone and Gold. So here, there is a necessity to fit the sulfurs to the state of evolution of the Stone. Easy to understand.
By dry path it is said to use one part of Stone on 3 of gold or silver. By wet method, it is the reverse. They don't always say these proportions, it can vary a lot, sometimes 1/10 or 10/1 etc.

Now, for a human medicine, it is generally said to simply extract the Stone with milk, or wine (White for White stone and red for red Stone ?). But wine has both a slight animal (by alcohol) and vegetal signature/Sulfur.
Spiritus Vini, pure, is said to be only "animal" and fitting, thus, to the human body in order to transport the Sulfur of the Stone inside the human structure. It is because alcohol can go through the encephalic barrier ? Who knows. I would, personnaly not use milk nor wine, because they are or vegetable, or animal, and not really human, but both accepted to the human body (we drink milk and eat grapes right ?). Maybe here I'm a bit purist ... but when it comes to the Stone, I am very cautious.
I don't have yet answers, but if I have, then, I'll let you know.

Hello Salazius,

I believe being of the first Kindom, mineralis, that the Stone is universal. Plants need minerals. People need Plants and minerals. The regression to the first cause of things is therefore found in the minerals.
The Stone is said to reduce matter to its primum ens. It purifies, removes "accidents", and converts things to their primary states.
Because humans are specified, coded, disease is accidental. The Stone should cleanse the body and its vessels of all plaque. Blockages, a huge cause of diseases, are painlessly dissolved and excreted via the most efficient pathways.
I personally don't see a need to use a carrier to administer the Stone. My understanding is that it's universality allows it penetrate all things unfettered because of its stature as a 5th element. It can effect changes in lower matter but is not affected by the same. Pure healthy tissue is unaffected and can only be cleansed. Stomach acid would do nothing to it as it is superior to acids.
Imo, I would do as the alchemists do and drink it down with some fine Renish or Canary wine.
Needles are barbaric anyways. Doesn't anyone watch Star Trek? ;)
"Bones" would have a fit seeing a patient impaled with a syringe.

Illen A. Cluf
09-08-2016, 02:01 AM
Just trying to investigate new ways :)

The medicine is already quite potent. So, if I were to try it in a new way, I would neither inject or ingest it directly. Rather, I would make a Homeopathic remedy of it and dissolve it on the tongue. That way, only the essence of it is transmitted, it is totally safe, and it would not interfere with body acids, etc.

Salazius
09-08-2016, 01:58 PM
Rather, I would make a Homeopathic remedy of it and dissolve it on the tongue. That way, only the essence of it is transmitted, it is totally safe, and it would not interfere with body acids, etc.

So you would use absorption via the mucous skin of the mouth in homeopathic form.

Ok. That would fit for a 4+ multiplicated Stone IMO.

What are your thoughts about orientation by itself ?



Stomach acid would do nothing to it as it is superior to acids.


Yes, it is quite possible that the stomac's acid would do nothing over it.

Dwellings
09-08-2016, 04:30 PM
The stone is highly sympathetic with the human kingdom since it is made of the same stuff that humans are made of. We dilute it in wine to weaken/dilute the heat of the stone. So, in a way it is already oriented. The stone was exclusively appointed by God for redeeming us but our present fleshly state may be compared with animals. So, in a way they too are cured with the same medicine.

Illen A. Cluf
09-08-2016, 04:46 PM
What are your thoughts about orientation by itself ?


According to the philosophers, it is safe. Many of them also recommend taking it with wine. It also does not contain any traces of metals at all. Still, if I was to ingest it by itself, I would first have a chemical analysis done on it. Then I would analyze the results, and if it contained anything dangerous, I would seek further advice from the medical community.

Salazius
09-08-2016, 06:25 PM
In fact I don't trust ancient authors, these are just books and words, no real stuff in front of me. I want to know the whys and hows of such orientation.

Or it is not necessary at all, or it is in some cases necessary, or in some cases not necessary but a bonus.

I think that the reasons depends of the quality of it.

My thoughts are that the mercury involved is not really important since I've made small scale metallic transmutation under alcool environment. And it worked. So, vegetable mercury is just interesting probably for the quality of preservation, dissolution, etc of the sulfur of the Stone. So, water or vinegar, or ether could do the trick, since it is safe for the human body, or even adapted to the "organism" that will receive it.

But, in regard of the Sulfur and its origin, I'm a bit more cautious, and still consider that one should not use wine but a pure mercury instead. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

Illen A. Cluf
09-08-2016, 07:51 PM
But, in regard of the Sulfur and its origin, I'm a bit more cautious, and still consider that one should not use wine but a pure mercury instead. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

Great thought, and you could be right. I wonder if a pure distilled water would work as well?

Chasm
09-08-2016, 10:12 PM
Great thought, and you could be right. I wonder if a pure distilled water would work as well?
I read somewhere that water is good as well.

elixirmixer
10-16-2016, 02:48 PM
What i would do for a 4+ Multiplied Stone.... sigh....... keep chipping away at it i suppose.

Salazius
10-17-2016, 08:16 AM
Great thought, and you could be right. I wonder if a pure distilled water would work as well?

Wondering too, as a mercury, probably, but lacking of a sulfur for the orientation of the Stone.

Salazius
10-17-2016, 08:20 AM
I came to the conclusions that the Stone should be oriented by a specific Sulfur.

First of all, it can be any sulfur, of any signatures and any kingdoms. As a universal Sulfur, alchemists prefer to use "a Gold", but any sulfur can do the trick as the Stone is truly universal.

It requires a Mercury for this orientation, able to open the Stone, but not to burn it.

Generaly the Mercury is already present in the Sulfur (like gold = can melt = mercury's presence).