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ghetto alchemist
09-09-2016, 07:16 PM
I say the most often overlooked and least understood key in the art of alchemy is the importance of vacuum in completing the work.

The most clear reference as to the importance of vacuum has been from Barry Carter in recent years. He writes:

"as a vacuum is pulled on the m-state concentrate from ML traps, the water associated with it will boil off leaving a gelatinous substance. As the vacuum is released this substance evaporates."
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/Observed.htm

This statement is very important in that it tells us that without the vacuum, we can't even keep the gelatinous substance in its container.

This also relates well to a historical reference provided to us from Casanova writing about his experiences with the Count St Germain. Casanova writes:

"Then he showed me his magistrum, which he called athoeter. It was a white liquid contained in a well stopped phial. He told me that this liquid was the universal spirit of Nature and that if the wax of the stopper was pricked even so slightly, the whole of the contents would disappear. I begged him to make the experiment. He thereupon gave me the phial and the pin and I myself pricked the wax, when, lo, the phial was empty."
The Memoirs of Jacques Casanova de Seingalt, Vol. V (of VI), "In London and Moscow"
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39305...-h/39305-h.htm
Even though Casanova didn't mention vacuum, his description sounds exactly like what Barry Carter described. Casanova's testimony is useful, he thought St Germain to be a charlatan. His descriptions regarding the count tell us what he saw, not believing the Count to be an adept he felt no reason to protect anything told to him by St Germain. Later during their same meeting when St Germain performed a transmutation, Casanova was certain that the count had employed sleight of hand to swap in a gold plated dupe. Casanova's doubt that St Germain really transmuted gold caused an argument between them and that encounter was the last time they spoke, but Casanova never changed his mind that St Germain was a rogue.
We are lucky.....lucky that St Germain trusted Casanova enough to show him the magistrum.
Lucky that Casanova pricked the seal to show it did indeed disappear when the pressure was equalised.
Lucky that Casanova thought it to be a parlor trick, not an important secret.
And lucky that Casonva was such a prolific writer to tell us about the encounter.

Looking in older bona fide alchemy texts there are some hints as to needing vacuum.


COLLECTANEA CHEMICA - Edward Kelly (ed. by A. E. Waite):
The matter being thus prepared, its central fire will be awakened, if it is treated properly, according to the process for extracting quicksilver from it ores, by keeping it in a close heat, which is continued without admission of the crude air, till the radical moisture is elevated in the form of a vapour, and again condensed into a metallic water, analogous to quicksilver.

THE NEW CHEMICAL LIGHT DRAWN FROM THE FOUNTAIN OF NATURE AND OF MANUAL EXPERIENCE. TO WHICH IS ADDED A TREATISE CONCERNING SULPHUR - MICHAEL SENDIVOGIUS.
"Mercury: I am fire within; fire is my food and my life; but the life of fire is air, for without air fire is extinguished. Fire is stronger than air; hence I know not any repose, and crude air can neither coagulate nor restrain me."
AND

"Art can do something which Nature is unable to perform, by removing the crude air"


THE THREE TREATISES OF PHILALETHES.
"our Mercury. So long as it remains in the veins of the earth, in a place perfectly adapted to its generation, and is sheltered from crude air, it retains its inward movement and heat"


EMERALD TABLET.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/alc/emerald.htm
7a) Separate the earth from the fire, so you will attain the subtle as more inherent than the gross, with care and sagacity.
7a) separate the earth from the fire, the subtle and thin from the crude and course, prudently, with modesty and wisdom.
7a) Seperate thou ye earth from ye fire, ye subtile from the gross sweetly wth great indoustry.
7a) Separate that spirituous earth from the dense or crude by means of a gentle heat, with much attention.
7a) Earth must be separated from fire, the subtle from the dense, gently with unremitting care.
I say that the Emerald Tablet reference describes a low temperature, low pressure distillation.

Even I have to admit though that besides the above examples it is difficult to find much in the old texts. This probably was a highly protected secret. If we look further afield though there are some other references to be found. The Chinese have left us with a couple. The book Journey to the West, which in my opinion was the secret manual of how to make the Taoist pills of immortality, names the main character Sūn Włkōng which means "Awakened to Emptiness" or "Aware-of-Vacuity". I think we could just as well translate as "Aware of Vacuum".
Also the Tao Te Jing text (道德經) written by the master Laozi talks of the importance of space where there is nothing: "We turn clay to make a vessel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends."

Once we accept the necessity of applying vacuum to create the gelatinous substance or the athoeter, we can then begin to ponder how would you accomplish this. Of course in modern times, we just connect our container to a vacuum pump. But vacuum pumps are a recent invention and haven't been around nearly as long as alchemy. In fact as a curious sidenote, the first scientist to imagine and design a vacuum pump was Robert Boyle, who himself was a student of alchemy. He never did get to see a functioning vacuum pump and apparently never did suceed at alchemy either, although he did leave us with the ideal gas equation. Amazing really, because with his understanding of the importance of gas pressures he was already halfway there.

Before the existence of vacuum pumps, the only way that I can imagine you could create a vacuum is with a column of liquid. Now it can be done with a column of water 10 metres high, but if you wanted to create a vacuum inside a clandestine lab, the you could do it with a column of mercury only 28 inches high. That is short enough to fit on your worktable. Mercury would have been necessary, absolutely necessary, but only to lower the gas pressure in the flask, not for any chemical reaction. And in fact it is the case that mercury is mentioned in almost every single ancient alchemy text, it is also the name that almost every single adept seems to give for the gelatinous substance.

Unfortunately this has given many alchemy researches the mistaken idea that mercury is the starting substance for making the philosophers stone. I shudder to think of how many people have been unecessarily poisoned by this misunderstanding of the old adepts writings.

Fortunately mercury is not needed at all in these modern times, avoid it at all costs and use a vacuum pump, either buy one or make it yourself.

Chasm
09-09-2016, 08:57 PM
I say the most often overlooked and least understood key in the art of alchemy is the importance of vacuum in completing the work.
This is a good observation Ghetto!


The most clear reference as to the importance of vacuum has been from Barry Carter in recent years. He writes:


This statement is very important in that it tells us that without the vacuum, we can't even keep the gelatinous substance in its container.

This also relates well to a historical reference provided to us from Casanova writing about his experiences with the Count St Germain. Casanova writes:

Even though Casanova didn't mention vacuum, his description sounds exactly like what Barry Carter described. Casanova's testimony is useful, he thought St Germain to be a charlatan. His descriptions regarding the count tell us what he saw, not believing the Count to be an adept he felt no reason to protect anything told to him by St Germain. Later during their same meeting when St Germain performed a transmutation, Casanova was certain that the count had employed sleight of hand to swap in a gold plated dupe. Casanova's doubt that St Germain really transmuted gold caused an argument between them and that encounter was the last time they spoke, but Casanova never changed his mind that St Germain was a rogue.
We are lucky.....lucky that St Germain trusted Casanova enough to show him the magistrum.
Lucky that Casanova pricked the seal to show it did indeed disappear when the pressure was equalised.
Lucky that Casanova thought it to be a parlor trick, not an important secret.
And lucky that Casonva was such a prolific writer to tell us about the encounter.
You pick up information well and cross reference equally well. Hence you make the logical deductions.


Looking in older bona fide alchemy texts there are some hints as to needing vacuum.

I say that the Emerald Tablet reference describes a low temperature, low pressure distillation.

Even I have to admit though that besides the above examples it is difficult to find much in the old texts. This probably was a highly protected secret. If we look further afield though there are some other references to be found. The Chinese have left us with a couple. The book Journey to the West, which in my opinion was the secret manual of how to make the Taoist pills of immortality, names the main character Sūn Włkōng which means "Awakened to Emptiness" or "Aware-of-Vacuity". I think we could just as well translate as "Aware of Vacuum".
Also the Tao Te Jing text (道德經) written by the master Laozi talks of the importance of space where there is nothing: "We turn clay to make a vessel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends."

Once we accept the necessity of applying vacuum to create the gelatinous substance or the athoeter, we can then begin to ponder how would you accomplish this. Of course in modern times, we just connect our container to a vacuum pump. But vacuum pumps are a recent invention and haven't been around nearly as long as alchemy. In fact as a curious sidenote, the first scientist to imagine and design a vacuum pump was Robert Boyle, who himself was a student of alchemy. He never did get to see a functioning vacuum pump and apparently never did suceed at alchemy either, although he did leave us with the ideal gas equation. Amazing really, because with his understanding of the importance of gas pressures he was already halfway there.

Before the existence of vacuum pumps, the only way that I can imagine you could create a vacuum is with a column of liquid. Now it can be done with a column of water 10 metres high, but if you wanted to create a vacuum inside a clandestine lab, the you could do it with a column of mercury only 28 inches high. That is short enough to fit on your worktable. Mercury would have been necessary, absolutely necessary, but only to lower the gas pressure in the flask, not for any chemical reaction. And in fact it is the case that mercury is mentioned in almost every single ancient alchemy text, it is also the name that almost every single adept seems to give for the gelatinous substance.

Unfortunately this has given many alchemy researches the mistaken idea that mercury is the starting substance for making the philosophers stone. I shudder to think of how many people have been unecessarily poisoned by this misunderstanding of the old adepts writings.

Fortunately mercury is not needed at all in these modern times, avoid it at all costs and use a vacuum pump, either buy one or make it yourself.
John Keely used the term "Negative Attraction" to explain the effects of the higher octaves of vacuum phenomena. He chose the term as nothing else existed in its place. By exciting this phenomena within resonating metals and non metals using inaudible scalar harmonics, he discovered the vibro-gravitation frequency of the earth. The inverse frequency emitted from metals created a repulsive effect relative to the metallic mass displaying anti-gravity. It's really that easy.

Tesla also gives the phenomena of adhesion and cohesion much attention, but you must understand that these forces are the very same inward seeking, negative, Male force.

Confirmation of this is found in the study of Walter Russell, The Universal One.

Great post Ghetto!

Florius Frammel
09-10-2016, 05:43 AM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Vitriol-1-stolzius_von_stolzenburg-1614.PNG

In this picture you can see that one hand is holding a strange thing. Some say it is a fish bladder that was supposed to be used to produce a vacuum in a distilling apparatus. As far as I know the use of such a bladder is not backed by any alchemical text.

I first read about this in the book by Gebelein

Ghislain
09-10-2016, 06:41 AM
You can see how simple it is to create a partial vacuum with fire cupping.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgHNt5_Deh0

If the vessel itself was also heated then the cooling would increase the vacuum effect as it cooled.

Ghislain

zoas23
09-10-2016, 07:08 AM
Interesting points.

My two cents are remembering the mystical name for the Fire in the Rosicrucian tradition: Nequaquam Vacuum (Literally "Nothing is void" or "There isn't Vacuum anywhere").

It's not incredibly bizarre to understand this mystical name as the idea that the Fire will fill the Vacuum (thus a vacuum has to exist to be filled by it).

Interesting, because I always understood the phrase in a different way (quite unrelated to any Lab practice).

The correspondence of the 5 mystical names can be disputed, though in all the cases I know, "Nequaquam Vacuum" is used for the fire.

theFool
09-10-2016, 09:14 AM
I like your approach to the mystery. I would add one more reference:
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/urine.htm

One different explanation for the "athoeter" experiment could be that it is a low boiling point substance. In a closed vessel, pressure builds up and keeps it in liquid state. Upon pricking the vessel the substance evaporates in the same way (for example) pressurized propane would do.
In order to capture it in liquid form, either low temperature or high pressure is needed (for example distillation in a closed system). This reference you provided is very clear:


COLLECTANEA CHEMICA - Edward Kelly (ed. by A. E. Waite):
The matter being thus prepared, its central fire will be awakened, if it is treated properly, according to the process for extracting quicksilver from it ores, by keeping it in a close heat, which is continued without admission of the crude air, till the radical moisture is elevated in the form of a vapour, and again condensed into a metallic water, analogous to quicksilver.

It needs a very well closed vessel.
I cannot understand yet the role of the vacuum or if it is absolutely needed.

Philosophical
09-10-2016, 09:59 AM
Thanks for posting the video of cupping Ghislain. As someone studying TCM it seems to me absurd that the alchemists had no idea about vacuums considering that cupping has been used for a very long time, also in other cultures I believe like middle eastern cultures used cupping also. I also agree re how easy it is to obtain a vacuum from my understanding all that is required to get a vessel to contain a partial vacuum is to heat it substantially and seal while the vessel it is hot.

On a side note, but I feel still relevant, with the talk lately on this board about physical forces and their relationship to alchemy here is I believe a fruitful link as if you take out all the matter from space it still has properties..electromagnetic permeability and permittivity.

JDP
09-10-2016, 10:53 AM
I say the most often overlooked and least understood key in the art of alchemy is the importance of vacuum in completing the work.

The most clear reference as to the importance of vacuum has been from Barry Carter in recent years. He writes:


This statement is very important in that it tells us that without the vacuum, we can't even keep the gelatinous substance in its container.

This also relates well to a historical reference provided to us from Casanova writing about his experiences with the Count St Germain. Casanova writes:

Even though Casanova didn't mention vacuum, his description sounds exactly like what Barry Carter described. Casanova's testimony is useful, he thought St Germain to be a charlatan. His descriptions regarding the count tell us what he saw, not believing the Count to be an adept he felt no reason to protect anything told to him by St Germain. Later during their same meeting when St Germain performed a transmutation, Casanova was certain that the count had employed sleight of hand to swap in a gold plated dupe. Casanova's doubt that St Germain really transmuted gold caused an argument between them and that encounter was the last time they spoke, but Casanova never changed his mind that St Germain was a rogue.
We are lucky.....lucky that St Germain trusted Casanova enough to show him the magistrum.
Lucky that Casanova pricked the seal to show it did indeed disappear when the pressure was equalised.
Lucky that Casanova thought it to be a parlor trick, not an important secret.
And lucky that Casonva was such a prolific writer to tell us about the encounter.

Looking in older bona fide alchemy texts there are some hints as to needing vacuum.




I say that the Emerald Tablet reference describes a low temperature, low pressure distillation.

Even I have to admit though that besides the above examples it is difficult to find much in the old texts. This probably was a highly protected secret. If we look further afield though there are some other references to be found. The Chinese have left us with a couple. The book Journey to the West, which in my opinion was the secret manual of how to make the Taoist pills of immortality, names the main character Sūn Włkōng which means "Awakened to Emptiness" or "Aware-of-Vacuity". I think we could just as well translate as "Aware of Vacuum".
Also the Tao Te Jing text (道德經) written by the master Laozi talks of the importance of space where there is nothing: "We turn clay to make a vessel; But it is on the space where there is nothing that the usefulness of the vessel depends."

Once we accept the necessity of applying vacuum to create the gelatinous substance or the athoeter, we can then begin to ponder how would you accomplish this. Of course in modern times, we just connect our container to a vacuum pump. But vacuum pumps are a recent invention and haven't been around nearly as long as alchemy. In fact as a curious sidenote, the first scientist to imagine and design a vacuum pump was Robert Boyle, who himself was a student of alchemy. He never did get to see a functioning vacuum pump and apparently never did suceed at alchemy either, although he did leave us with the ideal gas equation. Amazing really, because with his understanding of the importance of gas pressures he was already halfway there.

Before the existence of vacuum pumps, the only way that I can imagine you could create a vacuum is with a column of liquid. Now it can be done with a column of water 10 metres high, but if you wanted to create a vacuum inside a clandestine lab, the you could do it with a column of mercury only 28 inches high. That is short enough to fit on your worktable. Mercury would have been necessary, absolutely necessary, but only to lower the gas pressure in the flask, not for any chemical reaction. And in fact it is the case that mercury is mentioned in almost every single ancient alchemy text, it is also the name that almost every single adept seems to give for the gelatinous substance.

Unfortunately this has given many alchemy researches the mistaken idea that mercury is the starting substance for making the philosophers stone. I shudder to think of how many people have been unecessarily poisoned by this misunderstanding of the old adepts writings.

Fortunately mercury is not needed at all in these modern times, avoid it at all costs and use a vacuum pump, either buy one or make it yourself.

None of this proves anything about vacuums and alchemy, which you seem to be aware of when you only say that it seems to "hint" at it.

The reference to that mysterious very volatile liquid of St. Germain is from the second half of the 18th century and does not find any echoes in the older alchemical literature. The volatility of the alchemical "water" is much more relative. It has to be HEATED for it to evaporate, whereas the one described by Casanova evaporates immediately in the open air with just the surrounding atmospheric heat. Whatever it was, it was something else totally different from the alchemical solvent. Ancient, medieval and even Early Modern alchemists did not have the necessary apparatuses to be able to prepare and handle such a remarkably volatile substance (even acetone's volatility seems "tame" in comparison with the liquid described by Casanova!)

The other references do not really imply anything regarding vacuums, specially when read in their proper contexts. To the alchemists simply closing a vessel was "keeping the air out" of it, despite the fact that some of it was in fact trapped inside.

JDP
09-10-2016, 11:16 AM
You can see how simple it is to create a partial vacuum with fire cupping.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgHNt5_Deh0

If the vessel itself was also heated then the cooling would increase the vacuum effect as it cooled.

Ghislain

Yes, but for the alchemist this technique would have been pretty much useless. It works for "cupping" because you IMMEDIATELY seal the mouth of the glass vessel by pressing it against human skin. But for the purposes of the alchemist you would have to do that, and then somehow close the mouth the of the vessel fast enough before the air makes it back inside. They only had two ways of sealing flasks, since they had neither ground glass joints nor rubber stoppers:

1- Put a glass/ceramic/metal stopper on it and apply a "lute" to the joints

2- Heat the UPPER PART of the neck of the flask until it is soft enough to be closed with tongs

Both of them take time to do, so whatever partial vacuum you could achieve with the "cupping" technique would have pretty much been lost by the time you could close the mouth of the vessel. Besides, the vessels had to already have their contents inside, unlike "cupping" glasses, which are empty. Plus what if the contents were flammable and you had to keep flames away from them? They would in fact ignite. Finally, there is no mention whatsoever in the literature of alchemy to the "cupping" technique attempted to be applied to their flasks. Conclusion: it doesn't seem that the alchemists were very concerned with vacuums in the least. They considered that just preventing their "water" from evaporating into the atmosphere during the "coction" of the Stone was more than sufficient, so simply closing the flasks was thought to be enough.

Since their "water" does not seem to have been extremely volatile, unless too much "provoked' by the fire (thus the warnings to carefully control the heat by means of water/sand baths), I would probably expect that a round flask with a long neck and something like a thin & narrow "escape tube" (like a capillary tube, for example) to probably be more than sufficient for the purpose. It might not be necessary to really "hermetically seal" the flask. I have in fact seen in some Arabic texts alchemists who prepared the Stone not by digesting in a closed flask but actually by distilling and "cohobating" the "water" on its "earth" many times, until the portions of the "water" coagulate with the "earth". Such a technique requires to open the apparatus, pour the liquid back into the cucurbit/retort, distill again, and so on many times. So if their "water" was really very prone to be lost through volatilization this technique would very likely not work. Too much of it would eventually be lost during all those distillations and cohobations. Therefore, a careful control of the heat would very likely prevent most of the liquid from evaporating into the atmosphere, even without a "hermetic seal".

theFool
09-10-2016, 12:28 PM
Yes, but for the alchemist this technique would have been pretty much useless. It works for "cupping" because you IMMEDIATELY seal the mouth of the glass vessel by pressing it against human skin. But for the purposes of the alchemist you would have to do that, and then somehow close the mouth the of the vessel fast enough before the air makes it back inside. They were heating in sand bath the whole flask. Then they sealed the mouth and gradually let the fire subside. One way could be luting with wax.

zoas23
09-10-2016, 06:34 PM
They were heating in sand bath the whole flask. Then they sealed the mouth and gradually let the fire subside. One way could be luting with wax.

The "cupping technique"... I doubt it was widely used because of the reasons JDP mentioned.

There are other ways to change the pressure in a flask (just like the "cupping" technique, it does not create a vacuum, it simply lowers the pressure)... We used to use this technique in chemistry classes at high school. The problem of this OTHER technique is that if you use heat again, the pressure will, of course, go back to "normal" again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ2tPVSoiH0

(Pardon me for the "super-cool" guy in the video, I'm a bit in a hurry and I am posting with some haste).

Kiorionis
09-10-2016, 09:08 PM
I say the most often overlooked and least understood key in the art of alchemy is the importance of vacuum in completing the work..


I'm in agreement, but i think the common scientific idea of a vacuum -- an apparatus with little or no gas/air/matter contained within -- is a little extreme.

In my own experience, I find more important that a proper alchemical 'vacuum' should allow for a type of respiration between the elements inside the flask.

The most simple and common example i can think of is analogous to the hydrophilic and hygroscopic properties of potassium carbonate and similar salts, which pull moisture from the atmosphere.

JDP
09-11-2016, 12:35 PM
They were heating in sand bath the whole flask. Then they sealed the mouth and gradually let the fire subside. One way could be luting with wax.

But that would start the reactions of the matter/matters inside the flask before you have had the time to seal the glass vessel.

JDP
09-11-2016, 12:50 PM
The "cupping technique"... I doubt it was widely used because of the reasons JDP mentioned.

There are other ways to change the pressure in a flask (just like the "cupping" technique, it does not create a vacuum, it simply lowers the pressure)... We used to use this technique in chemistry classes at high school. The problem of this OTHER technique is that if you use heat again, the pressure will, of course, go back to "normal" again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ2tPVSoiH0

(Pardon me for the "super-cool" guy in the video, I'm a bit in a hurry and I am posting with some haste).

The first time I saw this trick performed was back in the 80s, in an educational TV show by the late, great "Mr. Wizard" (Don Herbert):

http://thekidsmagic.com/watch/ckBoYRhwfCI/boil-water-with-an-ice-cube-mr-wizard-s-challenge

Axismundi000
09-12-2016, 11:16 AM
I know people can prefer to be purists and maintain maximum authenticity in the Work. I've always liked Dubuis approach and it's fun to use the modern stuff.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2zi4j2f.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/ma8pas.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/16k7xxc.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/vq2mih.jpg


This was just a test run with some alcohol. As previous these are oriented correct on my IPad so if for you they are not oriented correct my apologies.

I am wondering if the reduction in thermal decomposition with vacuum distilling helps facilitate what is mentioned earlier in this thread, this philosophical 'Mercury'.

I speculate that a few hundred years ago an Archimedes screw in a cylinder with openings at top and bottom could produce pressure or vacuum. If the opening at top and bottom was accessed alternatively, not simultaneously with the screw threading, turning the screw would cause vacuum or pressure depending on the requirement of the Alchemist. It would need to be very well made I guess.

theFool
09-12-2016, 12:05 PM
I am wondering if the reduction in thermal decomposition with vacuum distilling helps facilitate this 'Mercury' that can be observed. Thanks for sharing. May I ask, the 'Mercury' distilled in the receiver is ethanol or something different?

Axismundi000
09-12-2016, 12:16 PM
It's just alcohol in the photo's. I was referring to the discussions of mercury earlier in the thread and how less thermal decomposition by using vacuum may facilitate this, just supposition.

theFool
09-12-2016, 01:01 PM
It's just alcohol in the photo's. I was referring to the discussions of mercury earlier in the thread and how less thermal decomposition by using vacuum may facilitate this, just supposition. Thanks for clarification. You use the word 'mercury' for the distilled alcohol. In my opinion, mercury might be 'something' dissolved in this alcohol in small quantity.

Axismundi000
09-12-2016, 01:17 PM
Personally I think there is the universal Mercury and these specific menstruum said that can act as Mercury like alcohol for plants.

Andro
09-12-2016, 02:41 PM
There are vacuum distillation setups which can come in handy for certain experiments. A GOOD vacuum tap/connector (one that can 'hold' the vacuum for longer periods) can cost significantly more than a regular one like they sell in stores.

For more 'simple' experiments, strongly heating the flask and quickly corking & sealing it has worked well for me, even if it's not the same very low pressure one gets with professional pumps... One problem with this method arises when/if one has matters in the flask which are more on the 'volatile' side of the spectrum to begin with.

Vacuum can give us unique conditions witch are not available when air (or too much air) is involved.

IMO (when we go beyond Spagyrics), the exclusion of air, gases or other volatile superfluities may be (also) related with 'increasing the chances' of the Spirit to become 'corporified' by 'chemically binding' (for lack of a better term) with the 'open' matter(s)/'magnet'(s) in our flasks. This way, we may also receive the additional benefit of much less 'phlegm' than in the more 'traditional' methods (e.g. from the 'air') of 'catching the astral spirit' with the same 'magnet(s)'. After all, it's not 'common' water or air we're after...


[...] hygroscopic properties of potassium carbonate and similar salts, which pull moisture from the atmosphere.

Although this will 'bring in' some corporified Spirit, it will be with lots of 'phlegm' and it will take much more time to have a noticeable effect. But yes, it will also 'work', to a certain extent.

Salazius
09-12-2016, 03:34 PM
As far as is concerned a simple cooking of the matter in a flask there is never mention of any method to produce vacuum in any text. For spagerical products, or alchemical one, like in the Thrid Opus/ Final Coction of the Matter in order to go through the colours.

There is a trick here, quite simple indeed, and it explains why it is nerver mentioned. You can find it only by practice.

Kiorionis
09-12-2016, 05:14 PM
Although this will 'bring in' some corporified Spirit, it will be with lots of 'phlegm' and it will take much more time to have a noticeable effect. But yes, it will also 'work', to a certain extent.

I was thinking of it more as an expression of a principle, that the reason for a 'vacuum' is to cause ingress of the Sulphur and Spirit, otherwise they remain separate.

Based on what I've experienced lately.

Lux Natura
09-12-2016, 11:24 PM
A GOOD vacuum tap/connector (one that can 'hold' the vacuum for longer periods) can cost significantly more than a regular one like they sell in stores.

Hydraulic valves are the way to go in the DIY route. Well, at least that's the conclusion I have come to in my research. Basically: flask---> valve ---> gauge ---> aspirator / vacuum. After needed vacuum is reached, the valve can be shut off, and everything post valve can be removed. Depending on the quality of the valve used, it can withstand quite high temperatures. Valves rated to be used for 95 weight hydraulic oil are designed to withstand the boiling point of the fluid, which in that case is 500 degrees C. As far as pressures, some valves are designed to operate to several thousand PSI.

A less overkill approach, many carpenters that run vacuum setups use simple fuel line valves to lock in the vacuum, and these (from what I have seen) will easily hold 23 inches of mercury vacuum.

Dendritic Xylem
09-13-2016, 01:08 AM
I create my own valve by making a self healing injection port with RTV silicone. Get a rubber flask stopper which has a port/hole in it. Now fill the hole with enough silicone that it will hold a vacuum, but will also be easy to stick a syringe needle through. Now use the syringe needle hooked up to a two-stage vacuum pump and inserted through the port to pull vacuum within the flask. Just pull the syringe out and the port will seal without letting pressure in. I add a small fresh glob of silicone directly over the injection sight after removing the needle, as well as the edge of the joint between the flask and stopper. It is just for extra long-term protection from leaks, but may not be necessary.

That is the cheapest valve I could come up with that would hold at least 28 inHg.

Axismundi000
09-13-2016, 06:44 AM
I am currently using an air compressor valve but I think it is a bit leaky. My diaphragm pump can run happily for hours so the partial pressure can be kept fairly constant. But I do need a better stop valve. Has anyone tried the Venturi vacuum valves they would perhaps fit better with more classic set-ups? Expanding gases leave but cannot get back in and they can go to 29 inches Mercury partial pressure which is a lot! Also they are cheaper then a pump.

http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/Category/Venturi_Vacuum_pumps/6906?SearchTerm=Venturi+Vacuum+pumps

Lux Natura
09-14-2016, 12:01 AM
There is a trick here, quite simple indeed, and it explains why it is never mentioned. You can find it only by practice.

There are ways to use up what is in the air. Nitrification of ammonia to nitrite and oxidation to nitrate can use up the nitrogen and oxygen in the air. That one is the most common I think on the earth, and the bacteria responsible for it are literally everywhere.

Other processes can fix the gases too. Chlorine can be fixed by adding nothing more than sodium and a drop of water. I don't know if in either of these cases a vacuum is left though.

Myself, I'm interested in vacuum distillation for things I ferment. We know that certain oils are insensitive to heat and light. Ideally I'd like to fractionally distill at room temperature. There's another experiment for which I require a vacuum, and I'm not quite sure there is even any literature on it ever being done.

elixirmixer
10-15-2016, 12:09 PM
Yeah i still dont get what parts i need. Where do i get these 'aspirators' and which is the best 'valve'. Im interested in maybe having another crack at some acetate metal stuff but on the vac

Axismundi000
10-15-2016, 05:58 PM
The MIT video on YouTube I posted and the various descriptions/photos people have added on this and the other thread in the equipment section cover it largely.

If you don't understand then perhaps you should approach with caution any practice.

Kiorionis
10-15-2016, 08:33 PM
Yeah i still dont get what parts i need. Where do i get these 'aspirators' and which is the best 'valve'. Im interested in maybe having another crack at some acetate metal stuff but on the vac

I'd recommend starting with a simple vacuum distillation of water, just to get the hang of it. That way if something goes wrong you don't poison yourself.

Here's where I bought my setup from. Comes with everything you need, and you can always use it without the vacuum attachments. If you scroll down, they have a water aspirator setup:

http://www.pelletlab.com/vacuum_distillation

elixirmixer
10-15-2016, 11:17 PM
SO close yet so far...

Thanks Kiorionis

I have the glassware that i need. its a vaccum under $200, and the valve and gauge that i am hoping someone will do what you did and say 'this is where i got mine' ect.....

Thank you everyone... once i get this happening i will be creating the planetary metals... (I had a very special alchemist share the entire metallic oils paths from begining to end, red oil of gold and everything, with pictures ect.... I will love that bloke forever!

Axismundi000
10-16-2016, 08:48 AM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351876790877

I payed over £500 for a similar pump from Cole-palmer U.K. Good hunting elixirmixer.