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JDP
10-02-2016, 09:25 PM
Pictures of Northwick Hill, where, according to John Dee's diary, Edward Kelley found the "scroll" (which appears to have been some sort of "treasure map" in cypher), the alchemical book attributed to St. Dunstan, and a sample of the Philosophers' Stone around the year 1582-83 in some kind of hidden tomb or chamber (Dee's diary mentions "the digging" where these items were found):

http://streetmap.co.uk/place/Northwick_Hill_in_Gloucestershire_525611_346611.ht m

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Driveway_to_Northwick_Hill_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1587752.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/04/24/93/4249349_8e5eb03a.jpg

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/04/48/06/4480690_6bb76f43.jpg

I wonder if Kelley found everything there was to be found at the place? Hmmm... do we have any forum members in Gloucestershire? ;)

JDP
10-04-2016, 10:04 PM
Some more interesting tidbits regarding the items that were found by Edward Kelley in Northwick Hill around 1582-83, this time from Dee's "Five Books of Mystery" manuscript:

"EK being come, with Mr John Husey of Blokley. (on the 22 day of marche) and EK being desirous
to understand somwhat of our spirituall frendes as concerning such matter as had falln out very
strange to him and Mr Husey: abowt a certayne moniment of a boke and a skroll fownd in Northwik
hill by the direction and leading of such a spirituall Creature, as when they had gotten the same,
and they endeuored by art to haue some exposition of the skroll, written in strange characters, they
wer willed to repayre to me, and there they shold be answered: &c. which thing now they did."

"He advised EK to comunicate to me the boke, and the powder, and so all the rest of the roll,
which was there fownd:"

"What if he go first to Nubery, and with the erth being taken thence, to procede to the other places
noted in the skroll and then with the erth of those ten places, the rest of the skroll, the boke therewith
fownd, and the red congeled thing in the hollow stone to come directly hither:"


http://timysteries.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/John-Dees-Five-Books-of-Myster-Joseph-H.-Peterson.pdf

From these passages, together with those in Dee's diary and several other contemporary witness accounts, it is possible to come to some conclusions regarding this interesting account which was later convoluted by writers who, unlike Dee, did not know Kelley personally or were not contemporaries of the pair:

1- Three items were found at Northwick Hill (not at Glastonbury Abbey or at an inn in Wales, as some later made-up accounts claim): a "scroll", which appears to have been a treasure map written in cypher and symbols (and which Dee seems to believe he was able to "crack" the code of), an alchemical book (apparently written in Latin, judging by the notebook of excerpts from it that Dee and Kelley made) attributed to St. Dunstan, and a "red powder" or "red congealed thing" that was found in a "hollow stone".

2- That Kelley, who apparently had a taste for going on "treasure-hunts", very likely made up that whole extravagant claim that a "spiritual creature" led him to the whereabouts of these items in order to impress the magic-inclined Doctor Dee and gain his friendship and all the benefits that would signify for Kelley.

3- That the sample of the Stone found at "the digging" in Northwick Hill was of the red one, not both the white and red Stone (as the later made-up story that Kelley bought samples of both forms of the Stone at an inn in Wales claims), and that this was used in several demonstrations of transmutation into gold (one of them for Emperor Rudolph II.)

4- That Kelley must either have found a sample of the white Stone somewhere else (another "treasure-hunt", maybe?), or he must have managed to figure out how to prepare it on his own (maybe from his persistent experiments and study of the text attributed to St. Dunstan that he found with the sample of the red Stone and the "scroll"), because Arthur Dee (John Dee's son) said that he witnessed several times his father and Kelley transmuting pewter (i.e. an alloy of lead and tin) into silver by means of a "powder", the results of which transmutations were sold to the Prague goldsmiths.

What all this information does not answer, however, is: 1- Who in blazes buried these items somewhere in Northwick Hill? 2- How did Kelley gain access to the information of where they had been buried? (and no, I am definitely NOT buying his "a spiritual creature led me to them" extravagant claim to impress the mystically-minded Dr. Dee) and 3- Where exactly is "the digging" place in Northwick Hill where these items were found? (are there any signs of excavations still left in the area today?)

zoas23
10-05-2016, 07:56 AM
Hmmm... JDP. I absolutely love Dee & Kelley, but sometimes they remind me of Laurel and Hardy (who are here below at an alchemy lab!!!).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HP5YidHsiU

The perfect duo of a trickster with a dubious education (Kelley) and a true scholar, a mathematical genius, who was somehow naive (Dee). Their genre is comedy, but a Divine Comedy.
William Burroughs and Brion Gysin developed the concept of the Third Mind (an artificial "new mind" that the very close collaboration of two persons can create).
And monsieur Gilles Deleuze once said that friendship and "comedy duos" are identical (I can only agree with him).
For some reason the Third Mind has the tendency to be more clever than the individual minds of two persons. Maybe it's the perfect Rebis.

I think that Kelley gave this Third Mind an imaginative and chaotic subconscious... And Dee gave it a rational consciousness, a methodic direction, a mathematical intelligence.
The whole of their story is comedy, even their "grand finale" with Uriel making them become very modern swingers... but "Comedy" doesn't mean "unworthy" (some of the most interesting alchemical classics are "comedy" -i.e, Cyliani-... and "The Name of the Rose" teaches a valuable lesson about the worth of Comedy).
I would laugh at anyone who believes that Enochian is "the divine language".
I would laugh at anyone who believes that Enochian is NOT "the divine language".
And that's comedy... it's chaotic, but it's perfectly organized. It's pure randomness, but it's completely based on the Steganographia. It doesn't make any sense, but it makes perfect sense.

Two persons who are ALREADY into alchemy and ciphers dig a hole and find a book on alchemy, an alchemical stone and a cipher. Doesn't it sound a bit strange?

There is a book I adore, it's probably one of my favorites: "On the Cave of the Nymphs (http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/porphyry_cave_of_nymphs_02_translation.htm)" by Porphyry... What I LOVE about this book is that Porphyry takes 14 lines from Homer's Odyssey and completely deconstructs them to arrive to some interesting conclusions:

1) That the Book by Homer is NOT a history book, that its asseverations about the Empirical world are allegories about something else.
2) That the Cave in Ithaca that Homer described is NOT a "touchable" reality, but a way to talk about something else.
3) That those who search for that Cave are not considering the fact that the Cave exists, but not in a physical way.

Of course, some people didn't think like Porphyry and ended up finding Troy!

But my tendency is to read the whole of the adventures of Dee & Kelly as an allegory. Could it be that the idea of digging underground and finding a stone which is explained in 2 ways (a book in latin and a cipher that leads to a treasure) can be a metaphor???

So you accept the idea of "the spirit that guided Kelley" is not an empirical fact... but what makes you think that the rest of that story is "empirical"?

JDP
10-05-2016, 01:01 PM
Hmmm... JDP. I absolutely love Dee & Kelley, but sometimes they remind me of Laurel and Hardy (who are here below at an alchemy lab!!!).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HP5YidHsiU

The perfect duo of a trickster with a dubious education (Kelley) and a true scholar, a mathematical genius, who was somehow naive (Dee). Their genre is comedy, but a Divine Comedy.
William Burroughs and Brion Gysin developed the concept of the Third Mind (an artificial "new mind" that the very close collaboration of two persons can create).
And monsieur Gilles Deleuze once said that friendship and "comedy duos" are identical (I can only agree with him).
For some reason the Third Mind has the tendency to be more clever than the individual minds of two persons. Maybe it's the perfect Rebis.

I think that Kelley gave this Third Mind an imaginative and chaotic subconscious... And Dee gave it a rational consciousness, a methodic direction, a mathematical intelligence.
The whole of their story is comedy, even their "grand finale" with Uriel making them become very modern swingers... but "Comedy" doesn't mean "unworthy" (some of the most interesting alchemical classics are "comedy" -i.e, Cyliani-... and "The Name of the Rose" teaches a valuable lesson about the worth of Comedy).
I would laugh at anyone who believes that Enochian is "the divine language".
I would laugh at anyone who believes that Enochian is NOT "the divine language".
And that's comedy... it's chaotic, but it's perfectly organized. It's pure randomness, but it's completely based on the Steganographia. It doesn't make any sense, but it makes perfect sense.

Two persons who are ALREADY into alchemy and ciphers dig a hole and find a book on alchemy, an alchemical stone and a cipher. Doesn't it sound a bit strange?

There is a book I adore, it's probably one of my favorites: "On the Cave of the Nymphs (http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/porphyry_cave_of_nymphs_02_translation.htm)" by Porphyry... What I LOVE about this book is that Porphyry takes 14 lines from Homer's Odyssey and completely deconstructs them to arrive to some interesting conclusions:

1) That the Book by Homer is NOT a history book, that its asseverations about the Empirical world are allegories about something else.
2) That the Cave in Ithaca that Homer described is NOT a "touchable" reality, but a way to talk about something else.
3) That those who search for that Cave are not considering the fact that the Cave exists, but not in a physical way.

Of course, some people didn't think like Porphyry and ended up finding Troy!

But my tendency is to read the whole of the adventures of Dee & Kelly as an allegory. Could it be that the idea of digging underground and finding a stone which is explained in 2 ways (a book in latin and a cipher that leads to a treasure) can be a metaphor???

So you accept the idea of "the spirit that guided Kelley" is not an empirical fact... but what makes you think that the rest of that story is "empirical"?

Because of two reasons:

1- Dee did not intend personal documents like his diary to be published, these were his own notes to himself. Why would he make up this account or intend it as some sort of "allegory", then? It does not make sense unless what he is writing is what really happened. There can be no doubt that Kelley did show up before him with these items.

2- Independent eye-witnesses (like Arthur Dee, or Cornelius Drebbel, who personally knew Rudolph II and almost surely was the informant of John Winthrop Jr. regarding Kelley's alchemical activities at that emperor's court) confirm parts of this account.

On the other hand, we have no confirmation whatsoever for Kelley's claim that a "spiritual creature" supposedly led him to the place where the items were found. This is just Kelley making a very difficult to believe claim without presenting any evidence whatsoever for it (and, as I keep on pointing out when this topic comes to the surface, unlike alchemy and its "Stone", which is very physical and tangible and thus capable of being proved, how in blazes can someone prove that such "spiritual creatures" even exist in the first place???), and John Dee very gullibly and uncritically swallowing it (since he was very eager to believe in anything regarding such "spiritual" beings, which Kelley must have known very well.)

zoas23
10-05-2016, 09:39 PM
Because of two reasons:

1- Dee did not intend personal documents like his diary to be published, these were his own notes to himself. Why would he make up this account or intend it as some sort of "allegory", then? It does not make sense unless what he is writing is what really happened. There can be no doubt that Kelley did show up before him with these items.

2- Independent eye-witnesses (like Arthur Dee, or Cornelius Drebbel, who personally knew Rudolph II and almost surely was the informant of John Winthrop Jr. regarding Kelley's alchemical activities at that emperor's court) confirm parts of this account.

On the other hand, we have no confirmation whatsoever for Kelley's claim that a "spiritual creature" supposedly led him to the place where the items were found. This is just Kelley making a very difficult to believe claim without presenting any evidence whatsoever for it (and, as I keep on pointing out when this topic comes to the surface, unlike alchemy and its "Stone", which is very physical and tangible and thus capable of being proved, how in blazes can someone prove that such "spiritual creatures" even exist in the first place???), and John Dee very gullibly and uncritically swallowing it (since he was very eager to believe in anything regarding such "spiritual" beings, which Kelley must have known very well.)

Again... we are talking about DEE & KELLEY!

Yes... his diaries were NOT meant to be published, same thing goes for the whole of Dee's "Magnum Opus", the Quinti Libri Mysteriorum, which mostly deal with the Enochian language. Those were "private" writing too (published later by Ashmole using the Sloane collection).

Or MAYBE he wanted them to be published or at least read by other persons?

I am not saying that the Stone is a "metaphor", it is physical... then again, the "Enochian Language" is also "real" in the same sense that English is "real" (i.e, it exists).

All I am saying is: a professional Cartographer, Alchemist and Cryptologist (Dee) and his friend dig a hole and find a map (cartography, cryptology), a stone (alchemy) and a book on alchemy (alchemy).
What a fantastic coincidence! They are very lucky to have found this "treasure" with 3 things that perfectly match the diversity of studies that they were already into...

I talked about friendships and comedy... we are not "friends", JDP (I mean that we are not that close, not that we dislike each other).
But I can still think of us as a comedy duo... you are often the "empiricist", I am often the "mystical"...
BUT this time, your empiricism strangely becomes "mystical" and my "mysticalism" (I know the word doesn't exist) becomes empirical.

I do NOT buy the story of their hole as an empirical fact. The chances of digging a hole and finding there 3 objects that perfectly match your THREE AREAS of studies is... hmmmmm.... VERY unlikely to be taken as an "Empirical Fact"... thus I believe it's "something else".

z0 K
10-05-2016, 10:38 PM
Some more interesting tidbits regarding the items that were found by Edward Kelley in Northwick Hill around 1582-83, this time from Dee's "Five Books of Mystery" manuscript:

"EK being come, with Mr John Husey of Blokley. (on the 22 day of marche) and EK being desirous
to understand somwhat of our spirituall frendes as concerning such matter as had falln out very
strange to him and Mr Husey: abowt a certayne moniment of a boke and a skroll fownd in Northwik
hill by the direction and leading of such a spirituall Creature, as when they had gotten the same,
and they endeuored by art to haue some exposition of the skroll, written in strange characters, they
wer willed to repayre to me, and there they shold be answered: &c. which thing now they did."

"He advised EK to comunicate to me the boke, and the powder, and so all the rest of the roll,
which was there fownd:"

"What if he go first to Nubery, and with the erth being taken thence, to procede to the other places
noted in the skroll and then with the erth of those ten places, the rest of the skroll, the boke therewith
fownd, and the red congeled thing in the hollow stone to come directly hither:"


http://timysteries.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/John-Dees-Five-Books-of-Myster-Joseph-H.-Peterson.pdf

From these passages, together with those in Dee's diary and several other contemporary witness accounts, it is possible to come to some conclusions regarding this interesting account which was later convoluted by writers who, unlike Dee, did not know Kelley personally or were not contemporaries of the pair:

1- Three items were found at Northwick Hill (not at Glastonbury Abbey or at an inn in Wales, as some later made-up accounts claim): a "scroll", which appears to have been a treasure map written in cypher and symbols (and which Dee seems to believe he was able to "crack" the code of), an alchemical book (apparently written in Latin, judging by the notebook of excerpts from it that Dee and Kelley made) attributed to St. Dunstan, and a "red powder" or "red congealed thing" that was found in a "hollow stone".

2- That Kelley, who apparently had a taste for going on "treasure-hunts", very likely made up that whole extravagant claim that a "spiritual creature" led him to the whereabouts of these items in order to impress the magic-inclined Doctor Dee and gain his friendship and all the benefits that would signify for Kelley.

3- That the sample of the Stone found at "the digging" in Northwick Hill was of the red one, not both the white and red Stone (as the later made-up story that Kelley bought samples of both forms of the Stone at an inn in Wales claims), and that this was used in several demonstrations of transmutation into gold (one of them for Emperor Rudolph II.)

4- That Kelley must either have found a sample of the white Stone somewhere else (another "treasure-hunt", maybe?), or he must have managed to figure out how to prepare it on his own (maybe from his persistent experiments and study of the text attributed to St. Dunstan that he found with the sample of the red Stone and the "scroll"), because Arthur Dee (John Dee's son) said that he witnessed several times his father and Kelley transmuting pewter (i.e. an alloy of lead and tin) into silver by means of a "powder", the results of which transmutations were sold to the Prague goldsmiths.

What all this information does not answer, however, is: 1- Who in blazes buried these items somewhere in Northwick Hill? 2- How did Kelley gain access to the information of where they had been buried? (and no, I am definitely NOT buying his "a spiritual creature led me to them" extravagant claim to impress the mystically-minded Dr. Dee) and 3- Where exactly is "the digging" place in Northwick Hill where these items were found? (are there any signs of excavations still left in the area today?)

I don’t think you will find anything useful in that area. The treasure map idea is a “snipe hunt.” What you really need to consider is the Book of St. Dunstan. I believe Kelley made up the whole buried treasure farce to entertain Dee.

The Book of Dunstan is the source material of Kelley’s alchemical knowledge. The fantastic story makes it look like Kelley and Dee rediscovered a lost alchemical tome. I’ve said it many times that Kelley’s Book of Dunstan is the same treatise that Ripley had in his possession: Key to the Golden Gate. That treatise is nearly identical to Philosophia Maturata except for the introduction.

He figured it out by studying the Book of Dunstan and experimenting. Arthur Dee inherited Dee’s library. In his Fasiculus Chemicus he produces several quotes from the Book of Dunstan. One can find those quotes in Philosophia Maturata which was published by an English astrologer that apparently bought the manuscript from Dee or Ashmole years after Fasiculus was published by Ashmole.

Kelley was very shrewd to invent the tale of finding the treasure of St. Dunstan including the powders. That way he could pretend that he did not have the know-how to make the powders of projection but did have authentic alchemical transmutation powder for demonstration. That worked until Rudolph imprisoned him. Of course this is my speculation.

If you want to know how Kelley proceeded in the lab read either Philosophia Maturata or Ripley’s, Key to the Golden Gate. I’m sure you have read the latter because you were involved in transcribing it once upon a time;-)

It makes no sense to those that have already made up their minds that one makes the Stone with metallic materials. People look to find the mercury of the Philosophers in minerals from mines. Metaphors my friend. In both treatises it is said the stone for healing and long life can be made on the cheap by the poor. I have found this to be true in the lab; at least for the stone of the poor. It is said that the use of gold is for the rich.

The problem almost no one gets past is the Green Lion. Nearly everyone thinks it is a concoction of lead or antimony. Ripley says both are useless for this work. That is high irony because Ripley is hailed as the father of the lead acetate path: another farce or comedy:-)

If you wish to make the Philosophers Stone in the alchemy lab you must make the Vegetable Stone first. If you can do that you may understand the protocol to make the Stone with gold or silver. I do not know if the stone made with gold will transmute other metals as yet because that work builds upon the philosophical mercury and sulfur extracted and purified for the Vegetable Stone which is the stone for the poor.

It is all about menstrums and the beginning is vegetal. Hollandus is the most generous and detailed about the lab operations. If one perseveres and succeeds it will take about a year to accomplish. It is well worth the endeavor.

zoas23
10-05-2016, 11:02 PM
I don’t think you will find anything useful in that area. The treasure map idea is a “snipe hunt.” What you really need to consider is the Book of St. Dunstan. I believe Kelley made up the whole buried treasure farce to entertain Dee.

That's my theory too... Except that I do not completely discard the possibility that Dee himself was part of the "farce" of the hole.

The book: there are many ways to find a book... in most cases they are no buried or hidden in a strange place (of course, the story of Nag-Hammadi is amazing).***
The Stone: the two of them were alchemists... Kelley was more into it that Dee, but both of them were Alchemists.
The Cipher Map: Dee was a cartographer and a cryptologist....

*** And Dee and Kelley had EXCELLENT connections with very powerful persons (i.e, VERY rich) who were giving them materials of study as to benefit from their research.

Some common sense makes the "fairy tale" become VERY unlikely to be real... and these "empirical facts" lead to think of something else... but with some minor differences, Zo k, I agree with you (well, the ony difference is that I don't think Dee was "swindled", I believe he was an active part of the creation of this "myth"... but such thing is only a biographical speculation and impossible to demonstrate).

P.s, the rest of your comments are fascinating... as usual!

JDP
10-06-2016, 01:11 AM
Again... we are talking about DEE & KELLEY!

Yes... his diaries were NOT meant to be published, same thing goes for the whole of Dee's "Magnum Opus", the Quinti Libri Mysteriorum, which mostly deal with the Enochian language. Those were "private" writing too (published later by Ashmole using the Sloane collection).

Or MAYBE he wanted them to be published or at least read by other persons?

I am not saying that the Stone is a "metaphor", it is physical... then again, the "Enochian Language" is also "real" in the same sense that English is "real" (i.e, it exists).

All I am saying is: a professional Cartographer, Alchemist and Cryptologist (Dee) and his friend dig a hole and find a map (cartography, cryptology), a stone (alchemy) and a book on alchemy (alchemy).
What a fantastic coincidence! They are very lucky to have found this "treasure" with 3 things that perfectly match the diversity of studies that they were already into...

I talked about friendships and comedy... we are not "friends", JDP (I mean that we are not that close, not that we dislike each other).
But I can still think of us as a comedy duo... you are often the "empiricist", I am often the "mystical"...
BUT this time, your empiricism strangely becomes "mystical" and my "mysticalism" (I know the word doesn't exist) becomes empirical.

I do NOT buy the story of their hole as an empirical fact. The chances of digging a hole and finding there 3 objects that perfectly match your THREE AREAS of studies is... hmmmmm.... VERY unlikely to be taken as an "Empirical Fact"... thus I believe it's "something else".

Dee was not part of the digging operations at Northwick Hill, it was Kelley and a man called John Husey (his full name indicates that he was a local of the area in question, as he is said to hail from Blockley.) Again, there is no evidence that Dee had any reason to lie about any of this. His son Arthur Dee also saw the items in question. He had no reason to lie about it either. And the sample of the red Stone was used in several demonstrations, including for Rudolph II himself (that's how he became convinced that Kelley was a genuine alchemist, which we all know ended up with Kelley eventually becoming his prisoner.) There is no doubt that what Dee recorded in his private papers regarding these items presented to him by Kelley actually happened. What we may question are the more dubious claims of Kelley to impress his mystically-minded associate, like that whole thing about a "spiritual creature" leading him to find them. What seems obvious to me is that Kelley somehow gained access to information regarding the whereabouts of these items (perhaps thanks to the above mentioned associate of Kelley in Blockley) and then concocted this bizarre claim about the "spiritual creature" to impress Dee's mystical mindset. It is more "spectacular" to tell this tale to a man so desirous to make contact with "spirits" as Dee was than to tell him the more "dull" truth of how he really found the items, i.e. through the standard methods of treasure-hunters (consulting old records, interviewing locals, observing the terrain for signs of possible human intervention, etc.)

Dee and Kelley had many interests, the items found in the "digging" only represent two of them. And why should we expect Dee or Kelley to report other findings that did not interest them? We do not know what else Kelley may have found in his "treasure hunting" expeditions. We are only informed about the items that interested the pair.

JDP
10-06-2016, 01:32 AM
I don’t think you will find anything useful in that area. The treasure map idea is a “snipe hunt.” What you really need to consider is the Book of St. Dunstan. I believe Kelley made up the whole buried treasure farce to entertain Dee.

The Book of Dunstan is the source material of Kelley’s alchemical knowledge. The fantastic story makes it look like Kelley and Dee rediscovered a lost alchemical tome. I’ve said it many times that Kelley’s Book of Dunstan is the same treatise that Ripley had in his possession: Key to the Golden Gate. That treatise is nearly identical to Philosophia Maturata except for the introduction.

He figured it out by studying the Book of Dunstan and experimenting. Arthur Dee inherited Dee’s library. In his Fasiculus Chemicus he produces several quotes from the Book of Dunstan. One can find those quotes in Philosophia Maturata which was published by an English astrologer that apparently bought the manuscript from Dee or Ashmole years after Fasiculus was published by Ashmole.

Kelley was very shrewd to invent the tale of finding the treasure of St. Dunstan including the powders. That way he could pretend that he did not have the know-how to make the powders of projection but did have authentic alchemical transmutation powder for demonstration. That worked until Rudolph imprisoned him. Of course this is my speculation.

If you want to know how Kelley proceeded in the lab read either Philosophia Maturata or Ripley’s, Key to the Golden Gate. I’m sure you have read the latter because you were involved in transcribing it once upon a time;-)

It makes no sense to those that have already made up their minds that one makes the Stone with metallic materials. People look to find the mercury of the Philosophers in minerals from mines. Metaphors my friend. In both treatises it is said the stone for healing and long life can be made on the cheap by the poor. I have found this to be true in the lab; at least for the stone of the poor. It is said that the use of gold is for the rich.

The problem almost no one gets past is the Green Lion. Nearly everyone thinks it is a concoction of lead or antimony. Ripley says both are useless for this work. That is high irony because Ripley is hailed as the father of the lead acetate path: another farce or comedy:-)

If you wish to make the Philosophers Stone in the alchemy lab you must make the Vegetable Stone first. If you can do that you may understand the protocol to make the Stone with gold or silver. I do not know if the stone made with gold will transmute other metals as yet because that work builds upon the philosophical mercury and sulfur extracted and purified for the Vegetable Stone which is the stone for the poor.

It is all about menstrums and the beginning is vegetal. Hollandus is the most generous and detailed about the lab operations. If one perseveres and succeeds it will take about a year to accomplish. It is well worth the endeavor.

Unfortunately, we do not know which text attributed to St. Dunstan was it that Kelley found. A.E. Waite, who was very interested in the Kelley account, could not determine this. We lack information about the contents of the "St. Dunstan" text that Kelley found.

That Kelley might have figured out how to make the white Stone, or at least some type of "tincture" that could turn lead and tin into silver, I have pointed out above, since Arthur Dee said that both his father and Kelley sold artificial silver made from pewter to the Prague goldsmiths/silversmiths. The problem comes regarding the red Stone and gold-making. For some reason Kelley was only able to temporarily please Rudolph II in this regard, and later on he seems unable to repeat the same feat. Why? If he knew how to make the red Stone, he should have had no problem to continue making gold for his patron. However, if he only had a limited supply of the red Stone, as it would be logically implied if he had found a sample of it instead of making it himself, then we can understand why he was only able to accomplish transmutations into gold as long as the sample lasted. Once the limited supply of it was gone, Kelley was faced with the task of continuing to make gold, but not having figured out yet how to make the red Stone he obviously could not. Since Kelley presented himself to Rudolph II as an "adept", he interpreted this "failure" to make more gold as Kelley just being obstinate and refusing to work for him anymore, which prompted him to throw Kelley in jail and see if he changed his mind and became more cooperative again.