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View Full Version : Looking for: SAL, LUMEN AND SPIRITUS MUNDI



Roburus
10-21-2016, 10:53 PM
Greetings friends.

I'm looking for the book "Sal, Lumen, Et Spiritus Mundi Philosophici". Anyone have it?

There´s a version in google books, but their english is very old and I can not understand well. I think there is a good version in the RAMS library .

This is the book: http://www.e-rara.ch/cgj/content/structure/1507169

Illen A. Cluf
10-22-2016, 12:08 AM
Dear Roburus,

The link did not work.

Unfortunately, the RAMS version only has some excerpts, not the complete text.

I am very skilled at reading old english handwriting. Send the google book and if it is not too long, I will see if I can transcribe it.

Roburus
10-22-2016, 05:20 AM
Dear Roburus,

The link did not work.

Unfortunately, the RAMS version only has some excerpts, not the complete text.

I am very skilled at reading old english handwriting. Send the google book and if it is not too long, I will see if I can transcribe it.


Thank you very much, perhaps it is not necessary to translate the entire book, there are some very important passages about SM I like to read. Could you do me that favor? I think it's just changing the letters "f" for "s". It seems that the site (www.e-rara.ch) is temporaly down. I have it, but weighs 100 mb :(

Illen A. Cluf
10-22-2016, 02:41 PM
Thank you very much, perhaps it is not necessary to translate the entire book, there are some very important passages about SM I like to read. Could you do me that favor? I think it's just changing the letters "f" for "s". It seems that the site (www.e-rara.ch) is temporaly down. I have it, but weighs 100 mb :(

Let me know where the passage is - Chapter and page. Perhaps the RAMS excerpts contain what you want.

Roburus
10-22-2016, 05:18 PM
Let me know where the passage is - Chapter and page. Perhaps the RAMS excerpts contain what you want.


The site is online again!!Maybe it was just maintenance: http://www.e-rara.ch/cgj/content/structure/1507169

i think there´s good information in the second book, chapters 1,2, 3 y 4

Chap. 1. That the spirit of the world assumes a body; and how it is incorporated.

Chap. 2. Of the conversion of this spirit into earth; and how its vertue remains integrally in this earth.

Chap. 3. Of the separation of fire from water, subtile from thick; and with what industry it should be effected.

Chap. 4. Of the spirits ascent into heaven, and descent into the earth.

Illen A. Cluf
10-22-2016, 05:32 PM
The site is online again!!Maybe it was just maintenance: http://www.e-rara.ch/cgj/content/structure/1507169

i think there´s good information in the second book, chapters 1,2, 3 y 4

Chap. 1. That the spirit of the world assumes a body; and how it is incorporated.

Chap. 2. Of the conversion of this spirit into earth; and how its vertue remains integrally in this earth.

Chap. 3. Of the separation of fire from water, subtile from thick; and with what industry it should be effected.

Chap. 4. Of the spirits ascent into heaven, and descent into the earth.

But this is not in old hard-to-read handwriting. It is very legible in typescript.

Roburus
10-23-2016, 03:08 PM
Well, English is not my natural language, but there are certain words I do not understand because they have changed some letters.

Andro
10-23-2016, 03:17 PM
there are certain words I do not understand because they have changed some letters.

You're welcome to transcribe and make a list of the words you don't understand and post them here, I'm sure with a little collective support we can all assist. I think it's worth a try.

Illen A. Cluf
10-23-2016, 04:07 PM
Well, English is not my natural language, but there are certain words I do not understand because they have changed some letters.

The only real complication is that the "s" looks like an "f", without the right side of the cross bar. If you replace all these "f"s with "s"s, it should be much easier to read.

If you have trouble with any other word, like Andro says, please make a list and we would be more than happy to interpret them.

Coleridgean
10-23-2016, 07:56 PM
It was Englished by Robert Turner (but written by Clovis Hesteau Nuisement), as were a number of alchemical works from the continent.

If you have a few pages you'd like cleaned up let me know. I'm an expert at changing f's into s's

It appears to be a very nice elaboration on the Tabula Smaragdina.

Roburus
10-25-2016, 12:51 AM
It was Englished by Robert Turner (but written by Clovis Hesteau Nuisement), as were a number of alchemical works from the continent.

If you have a few pages you'd like cleaned up let me know. I'm an expert at changing f's into s's

It appears to be a very nice elaboration on the Tabula Smaragdina.


I wish I could transcribe and then translate it. Do you use an OCR software for the clenaning and chanching? Actually they are many pages :(

Coleridgean
10-25-2016, 01:33 AM
I don't have ocr - I just type it out by hand. Pretty used to it by now. Especially Turner, whose translations were used to great effect by Newton

Schmuldvich
10-25-2016, 01:52 AM
http://i.imgur.com/naI8beF.jpg

This is not a difficult text to read (...if you haven't already, definitely do so now--a lot of thing are made clear); it is, though, a difficult text for OCR software to properly transcribe. Which means if this is to be done properly, someone must take the time to transcribe [type] the whole treatise word by word into a text editor.

Curious to see how long this would take me, I had my hand at it. Page 61 took me two and a half minutes to transcribe. There are 175 words on the page, so I am able to transcribe this olde English text at about 70 words per minute.

"Sal, Lumen, Et Spiritus Mundi" has 200+ pages. At the rate it took me to transcribe that one page, the entire text would take me roughly 9 hours to thoroughly reproduce in plain text! Someday I may get around to this being that this text is exceedingly valuable and worthy of a more focused study.

Coleridgean
10-25-2016, 02:15 AM
I'd be willing to do ten pages by hand. If you can find a few more people like me then maybe it will cut down the load. Just name the ten pages you'd want me to do

Schmuldvich
10-25-2016, 02:46 AM
I'd be willing to do ten pages by hand. If you can find a few more people like me then maybe it will cut down the load. Just name the ten pages you'd want me to do

Amazing! It would be wonderful if more people like you would volunteer for this, Coleridgean. If you could start on page [54] and do up to page [64] that would be great!

I will start on page [65] and get around to getting up to page [75].

Whoever would like to volunteer next, do page [86] to page [96]. The next person to volunteer does page [97] to [107]. After that, page [108] to page [118], etc.



When transcribing (I have never done this before but can see myself totally getting into this), please remember to use the same capitalization the author uses; this is very important for us to remember!!!

Coleridgean
10-25-2016, 02:55 AM
OK I will do ten pages starting with 54

Coleridgean
10-25-2016, 03:31 AM
Here is the first half-

A TREATISE OF The Philosophers true Salt and Secret; And Of the universal Soul or Spirit of the World.

Book II

CHAP. I.

That the Spirit of the World assumes a Body; and how it is incorporated.

WE have I hope sufficiently explicated in the former book, that all things were not only produced; but also made corporeal by the universal Spirit. We now come to declare what kinde of Body this Spirit assumes, and how it self both is, and makes all things corporeal; for that must needs be corporeal which makes all other things such, seeing nothing can give what it self hath not. Let us therefore see with what, and how it is vested with a Body: not that we will here dispute of the incorporation of celestial and supernatural beings, but onely of Physical and Sublunary Generations, and of the body of the Earth, which is the sole vessel and true matrix, where the prime and most general Incorporator of things, is it self incorporated.
I say then, That no body can be made without a precedent Mover, that may deduce potency to act: that which exists not in save potency, may be produced into light, and according to Natures intent, reach its final term; which is, to make that a body which it would produce. Now this mover can be no other then fire or heat, which moves it self first in the Air; for all Generations begin there, because fire is the most active Element, and consequently most subtile and light: whence it is more prompt for motion.
Fire therefore, whose propriety is through its levity to ascend, and make unknown things visible, doth requisitely receive the beginning of its motion and action from inferiour Bodies; that is, from the centre of the Earth: where, as we said before, the old Demogorgon, and Progenitor of all things, inhabits; sitting there in his Throne, and midst of his Empire: that thence he may govern, command, preserve, and divide the essence of Life to all the parts of that great Spherical Body expanded about him; and that he may more easily and from equal distance, receive from every Member what he wants. The root of Fire is implanted in the fruitful bowels of this old Parent: which thence emits a vaporous breath, which Hermes calls the humid Nature: for vapour is the prime and next action of fire; with which it is so conjoined, that it cannot be imagined without it.
But some may say, If vapour comes from fire, how can it be moist, seeing fire is hot and dry? Whence acquires it this contrary quality? And here we finde nothing absurd, if we do but consider, That fire cannot live and subsist without moisture, which is its aliment, support and subject; without which, fire cannot be conceived: for being by Nature active, and its action indefatigable, it must needs have something to act upon, and never be destitute of this thing.
Fire then, and co-essential moisture, are like Male and Female in all Generations, and are the first Parents of corporification of the Spirit of the World; as hereafter we shall make appear. But Fire is the first Operator, because action precedes passion, though the Patient be inseparably co-existent with the Agent; as the old Stoick Zenon asserts, who thought that the substance of Fire was by Air turned into Water, and there conserved, as the general Sperm, and first universal matter, whence all things were first generated. Thales Milesius, whom the Greeks surnamed the wife, perceiving the matter patient, said, That Water was the first matter: which Heraclitus attributed to the Sea: and Moses, more illuminated then both, saith, That before the heaven and earth were created, the Spirit of the Lord moved on the face of the waters: calling Fire, because of its noble and pure essence, The Spirit of God. In saying therefore, That Fire is the first principle of beings, I transgress not the limits of Reason and Verity: for it is without doubt, the first Operator, and the last Destroyer and Changer of forms, whose cause it is, even till it hath brought them to their period and first matter, beyond which there is no progress, but onely a transformation, as I shall by and by declare, by comparison with visible and familiar beings: the first active potency, which begins to operate in the production of man, is the agitation or motion of heat: which imitating the action of fire (whose Nature is chiefly separative) draws Sperm from the whole Body (wherein Man’s seed is potentially included) and cocts and digests it: thereby rendering it apt for expulsion, and afterwards for Generation and Augmentation; which Generation and Augmentation is always helped by Fire, which is the sole Actor: so that it should attain the end of its exaltation, being inflamed by the Sulphur of Excrements, and impurity of Aliments, it would absume the radical Moisture, which is the Seat and Preserver of Life: which done, the fire remits not of its power and action, till by resolution and corruption, it brings the Body to Ashes; which nothing can do but Fire.

Coleridgean
10-25-2016, 03:33 AM
When I copied and pasted into the form it seems to have removed all the italics :(

Schmuldvich
10-25-2016, 04:03 AM
You can email or PM me your word document and I will compose this into one single book instead of posting a bunch of snippets online as we go.

...I finished my 10 pages a couple minutes ago, so page [65] to page [75] is complete.



It appears as if Coleridgean has completed his pages, so page [54] to page [75] is done! Awesome!

I will do page [86] to page [96] when I get the chance.

Who is going to volunteer to do page [97] to page [107]...?

Roburus
10-25-2016, 02:30 PM
I can transcribe them, page 97 to page 107, give me you mail by PM (but I cannot answer it, reach the limit)

Andro
10-25-2016, 03:50 PM
give me you mail by PM (but I cannot answer it, reach the limit)

After you have made 25 posts, your Private Message quota 'jumps' to 50.

4 more posts and you're there :)

Roburus
10-25-2016, 07:10 PM
After you have made 25 posts, your Private Message quota 'jumps' to 50.

4 more posts and you're there :)

Thanks fo the info Andro!

Schmuldvich
10-25-2016, 10:35 PM
I can transcribe them, page 97 to page 107, give me you mail by PM (but I cannot answer it, reach the limit)
Excellent! Thank you for volunteering to undertake this task!

I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.

Schmuldvich
10-27-2016, 05:15 AM
Coleridgean transcribed page [54] to page [64].

I did page [65] to page [75].

Someone still needs to complete page [76] to page [85].

I just finished page [86] to page [96] a few minutes ago.

Roburus is going to take care of page [97] to page [107].


Who is going to volunteer to transcribe page [108] to page [118] next???

I will complete page [119] to page [129] when I get the chance.

garvolt2002
10-29-2016, 01:54 PM
I can do 76 to 85. If no one else is doing this? I presume that's Chapter 8.

Schmuldvich
10-29-2016, 03:04 PM
I can do 76 to 85. If no one else is doing this?

Excellent!! Please do!

garvolt2002
10-29-2016, 07:44 PM
Started who is combining all the translations

Schmuldvich
10-29-2016, 08:27 PM
Started who is combining all the translations

Me, if people would PM or email me their contribution.

Coleridgean and Roburus both still need to send me their pages.

Private message me for my email, or just PM me the translated text. If for whatever reason someone has an issue with this, just go ahead and post it here as a post.

I will post it as a whole as soon as everything is complete!

Coleridgean
10-31-2016, 03:35 AM
I cant seem to attach the word doc file, and when I copy and paste it just says:

"The text that you have entered is too long (11017 characters). Please shorten it to 5000 characters long."

Schmuldvich
10-31-2016, 04:14 AM
I cant seem to attach the word doc file, and when I copy and paste it just says:

"The text that you have entered is too long (11017 characters). Please shorten it to 5000 characters long."

I just PM'd you my email. You can email it to me if you'd like.

Coleridgean
10-31-2016, 04:24 AM
Tried to email you but it bounced. Also I'd prefer not to PM since you are only allowed up to 3 private messages maximum on this forum according to the message it has in the PM system

Andro
10-31-2016, 05:56 AM
you are only allowed up to 3 private messages maximum on this forum according to the message it has in the PM system

After you have made 25 posts, you PM quota jumps to 'normal' (50 stored messages).

If you choose to become a Patron (by donating (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?1703-Donate!) for the upkeep of the forum), you get 250 stored messages.

Schmuldvich
11-20-2016, 03:01 AM
I received Coleridgean's work.

Anybody else have anything completed?