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Awani
10-23-2016, 10:49 PM
In my family I am responsible for doing the laundry. I think this is a pretty sweet assignment. Usually I have to do this about twice a week and it involves stuffing my washing machine with dirty clothes, then waiting an hour... then moving these clothes into the dryer... wait another hour and then spend about 5-10 minutes placing all the items in the closet.

Not much work at all, and I love to read a book or watch a movie and hear the machines work away in the distance.

Imagine before these machines. Imagine how much time it would take to do the laundry. It would take the whole fucking day, if not two days including the drying period... and that is if the weather is good.

Now imagine you have a family of 2-3 children and a husband/wife. That is a lot of dirty clothes. You would spend a lot of time each week making sure your family is in clean clothes.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h18/deviadah/forum/Knight%20Daniel%20Ridgway%20Women%20Washing%20Clot hes%20by%20a%20Stream_zpsc389xpf0.jpg

Where am I going with this?

Well the rise of the emancipation of women is practically in sync with the rise of the washing machine and the dryer. It is a fact that 100 years ago women performed all laundry duties, but when the machines came to help her week freed up.

She had more time to do something else... like perhaps try and get some basic rights in the male dominated society. And it worked. Even if not perfectly equal women are, in most parts of the Western World, fairly equal. Especially when compared to pre-washing machine times.

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Now rewind the clocks back about 100 000 years. In those days we mainly wore what was left from the animals we killed. And fur basically cleans itself... more so than our current clothes at least. Regardless in those days the human race used clothes mainly to keep warm.

For a very long period we roamed. We were nomads. We were free. In a sense we lived life as it should be lived: get some food, make a fire... raise a family. Pretty simple. I doubt many people suffered from depression or stress. Sure there were problems in those days, as today, but not of the same degree.

Existence was pure, at its core... and humans lived at one with nature.

Then we started farming and thus we invented the modern concept of "clothes"... and we had to start doing the washing and this led to a lot of mindless work that further enslaved us. I am certain ancient humans did some sort of washing, but not at all to the degree we did our washing when we "settled down".

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Is the women's liberation movement proof that when we remove unnecessary work we take charge of our faith, and we begin to create something better? And did our successful hundreds of thousands of years of nomadic life partially come to an end because we introduced such said unnecessary work?

:cool:

zoas23
10-24-2016, 03:51 AM
Hahaha... I know your motto is "Freedom is in the mind". My motto is "Fuck gender roles" and I am a proud male washer too (and cooker in maybe 90% of the times).

[It funny, but I think our mottos lead to the same place].

I have a washing machine since 5 years ago, before then, I used to wash with my hands (no, it's not truly as time consuming as you would imagine).

But I did not write to say such things, but something else. There is a *trap* in your post, the myth of the "noble savage" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_savage ).

"Freedom in in the mind" and "Fuck gender roles" are as valid today as they were thousands and thousands of years ago.

I'm not a structuralist, but I believe that the myth of "The Fall" in almost intrinsic to mankind... and I don't mean it in Religious Terms, but the idea that there was a "golden age" (it doesn't matter where you place it) and then we had fallen into some sort of *slavery* by our own mistakes... and we are always trying to return to our own definition of that "golden age".

It would involve a long discussion, but I believe the golden age never existed... and the "noble savage" has the same problems that you and I have. The solution to the *riddle* is not the noble savage, but something of a very different nature and I am forced to quote someone I admire a lot:

FREEDOM IS IN THE MIND
(and not in the past, and not in the present, and not in the future).

elixirmixer
10-24-2016, 06:54 AM
While there is a greater awareness of gender equality in terms of cultural behaviour and political correctness, the women in the know, who are still fighting for these women rights, still believe that it is only on the surface that there has been change, apparently, statistics show that we are still just using women as cum rags, and that women are being subject to this because of a heavily over-dominating male presence in the leadership. You'll notice that the only women who make it into power are the women that are happy to watch millions of other women suffer, starve and die, just to help out the american economy..

To me, this whole gender equality thing is bullshit, because the whole world raving on about this has made Australia flip the situation on its head and now women have WAY MORE rights than men, especially when it comes to children, courts, police, and custody battles.

Not to mention, that (sorry zoas) as the women have free'ed up there week, gone and gotten jobs, their kids are now locked up in "Programming prison", divorce rates are the highest they have ever been, women are typically behaving in a much less respectful 'elegant' manner than they used to... there are no laws against adultery in Australia, and many many many men, have worked their whole lives, only to have their wives, and their wives lawyers, take away their homes, their children ect... whenever they feel the desire... That is not equality... that is manipulation, destroying the very definition of the family unit, and has resulted in an innumerable kids losing their fathers just because the women wants to hide them out of spite.

I know many dads here in Australia... but i know hardly any fathers... Not to mention all the sexual abuse that happens to the children that are fostered because of this bullshit.

Down with fake gender equality! Put them back in the heart of the home where a tender lady belongs, and how can they be offended at that? Is going and working 9-5 suddenly more desirable than Motherhood?

The world is becoming evil, and this whole gender equality shit is just another "We are trying to look like we are doing the right thing but really its just a distraction while we shove a dick up your ass and steal your kids"

Just my opinion, but one that i think many would share...

Awani
10-24-2016, 10:46 AM
Funny, didn't expect there to be so many comments on gender roles. I did not even think about that... I was more focused on the issue of unnecessary work being the distraction for "freeing the mind".


It would involve a long discussion, but I believe the golden age never existed... and the "noble savage" has the same problems that you and I have.

I disagree with this. Although I dislike the terms "noble/nobility" as well as "savage", but I know you just used that "phrase"... but that moniker is wrong in itself.

I am not for going back, but for going forward. BUT... and I will explain my thinking with allegory:

A band makes a classic best selling debut album. Then sometimes they follow this up with a second album that becomes even bigger. Then the third album is not liked at all. The fourth and fifth no better. This is a common trend with bands and their albums, but then they release an album where they go back to "their roots" and they regain that earlier success.

So no I don't think we should revert to the Stone Age, but I do think we should "go back to our roots".


FREEDOM IS IN THE MIND ...and not in the present...

Actually a free mind, or a mind in a state of freedom, is constantly in the present moment. IMO.

zoas23: it doesn't help when I'm trying to dominate my own ego to give it energy with constant flattery. Are you the devil? ;)

:cool:

zoas23
10-25-2016, 09:59 PM
I disagree with this. Although I dislike the terms "noble/nobility" as well as "savage", but I know you just used that "phrase"... but that moniker is wrong in itself.

Yeah, I used them for communication's sake. The "noble savage" simple refers to an idea that became popular during the enlightenment era and the discussion about the TRUE nature of man (i.e, are we naturally born "good" or are we "naturally born "evil"?). The ones who had the first idea often thought very much like you, that we were born good and that we created a culture that "corrupted" us and made us get far from our roots (the ones who had the opposite idea mostly think that we were born "uncivilized" and that we created a civilization to prevent evil to some extent).

The idea is mostly linked to the idea of the "natural man".

Since I am talking with a well-read person, I have to say that I dislike Aristotle a lot, but I like some of his ideas (maybe a 1% of his ideas)... one of them is his classical definition of what a human is: "a political animal".

The "Natural Man" (Noble Savage) is a myth.

Is it possible to go back or further to a pre-political organization of mankind? I don't think so... Maybe a better political organization? Yes, that's possible, but you won't correct the "FALL OF MANKIND" that way.

I am talking about the "FALL" because, as I've said, the myth of the "fall" seems to be intrinsic to all of us (religious, atheists, etc): the idea that some state of perfection was lost and we have to "return there". Immanentize the eschaton! ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton ). I get your idea, but is THAT possible or an utopia?


So no I don't think we should revert to the Stone Age, but I do think we should "go back to our roots".

I get you allegory... I don't think Mick will ever do something worthy again without Brian Jones by his side though. :p
(LOL... I am suddenly endorsing your theory due to my love to the glorious Stone age, those ancient times when Brian was doing miracles with his sitar).


zoas23: it doesn't help when I'm trying to dominate my own ego to give it energy with constant flattery. Are you the devil? ;)

DOMINATE the Ego... I LOVE listening to that expression.
Whilst I hate the misunderstandings that a similar expression has created is a disaster: dissolving the Ego... a detrimental idea if it's misunderstood and it's often misunderstood and disasters happen...

I can only steal your words again: "Freedom is in the mind". Perception is everything.

As for me being the devil... LOL... The story isn't sad, but it sounds sad (for me it's something that brings me tears of joy). I was holding the hand of my grandma when she died (her death was expected, she had cancer that lasted for some 5 years till she finally died peacefully and without pain). During her last month she started to speak like a prophet (her brain was not working well and was somehow living in hallucinations, but I was having interesting conversations with her). Her last words were. as she was talking to me and looking at my eyes: "I never told you about it, but I will have to warn you about it before leaving: you are the Devil... but there's a secret... the Devil is not a bad person, but quite the opposite" (then she went into a coma and died after some minutes).

So, going back to the FALL.... maybe the Devil told Eve: "Yeah, eat that fruit, you won't die... Freedom is in the mind".


"With all the new crimes that you are perfecting
Oh, I can't help quoting you
Because everything that you said rings true" :cool:

Awani
10-25-2016, 11:56 PM
The Serpent is the good guy for sure. I have always seen it like that.

The Fall = the beginning of the RISE ;)

:cool:

Ghislain
10-26-2016, 07:24 PM
Just going back to the subject of family breakdown and divorce...I don't think this has anything to do with women's rolls but men's. Few men play the roll of real men in their relationships any more. They don't make their women feel special as it has been taught they are now equal and it is no longer necessary. We bury ourselves in our own mental desires and the relationship sours for want of some excitement or variety and companionship.

The man's roll as breadwinner and protector has gone and women are left seeking it.

On the subject of being born good or evil...that is impossible for there is no good or evil, they are both just personal perceptions.

I think the going back bit entails returning to smaller communities where each member of society has a function and feels needed as a part of that community.
This is not to say these communities need to be isolated, there can be multiple community interactions and each can help the other.

We have become large wishy washy communities with no goals...money and consumerism has become people's replacement for belonging, the more you can possess
the more you belong.

Ghislain