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Schmuldvich
10-30-2016, 03:10 PM
Our Art has been accomplished for thousands of years--without the use of electricity, without the use of extreme methods, and under not so wonderful circumstances all over the world! This leads me to believe what the Sages say is true: There is no need for vast arrays of laboratory equipment, nor is there need for countless elaborate processes carried out by the Artist! Alchemy takes time, and I feel as if most people just getting their feet wet fail to observe this vital fact: Putrefaction must occur before we see all the changes in our flask that the Ancients described.


Are we all in agreement that Putrefaction is an absolutely necessary early stage of our Great Work? Must not every one of us wait about one philosophical month, or 40 days, before seeing the blackest of the black?






"From the putrefaction therefore in this water, there first appears blackness, like unto broth wherein some bloody thing is boiled."


"Now I have shown you that this operation is at no great remove from the living things, nor was anything over born or endowed with spirit or growth except for putrefaction and change of appearance. Thus it is that an authority has said that this operation avails nothing until after decay."


"Our venerable Water of the Philosophers, original Hyle of the Sages; it is the stone that one revealed for you in this treatise. It is the first matter of the perfect body, as you have determined. Put your matter in a furnace, into a clean vessel, clear transparent and round, whose opening you will hermetically seal, so that nothing can escape. Your matter is to be placed on a level bed or surface, slightly hot. You will leave it there for one Philosophical month. Maintain the heat evenly, so that the perspiration of the matter will sublime, until it sweats no longer, that nothing rises or descends, that it begins to putrefy."


And this blackness is that which conjoineth the body with the spirit. Then saith Rhasis, the government of the fire being observed for the space of forty days, both (to wit the white liquor, and the citrine body) are made a permanent or fixed water, covered over with blackness; which blackness, if rightly ordered, cometh to its perfection in forty days space. Of which another philosopher saith, so long as the obscure blackness appeareth, the woman hath the dominion; and this is the first conception or strength of our stone; for if it be not first black, it shall never be either white or red. Avicen saith, that heat causeth blackness first, in a moist body; then the humidity being consumed, it putteth off or loseth its blackness; and as the heat increaseth, or is continued, so it grows white. Lastly, by a more inward heat, it is calcined into ashes, as the philosophers teach. In the first decoction, which is called putrefaction, our stone is made all black, to wit, a black earth, by the drawing out of its humidity; and in that blackness, the whiteness is hidden. And when the humidity is reverted upon the blackness again, and by a continued soft and gentle digestion is made fixed with its earth, then it becomes white. In this whiteness, the redness is hidden; and when it is decocted and digested by augmentation and continuance of the fire, that earth is changed into redness, as we shall hereafter teach.


The highest mystery of the whole Work is the Physical Dissolution into Mercury, and the reduction into primary matter.


Take then in the name of the great God, the venerable matter of the Philosophers, called the first Hyle of the Sages, which contains the above named Philosophical Mercury, termed, the first matter of the perfect Body, put it into its Vessel, which must be clear, diaphanous and round, and closely stopped by the Seal of Seals, and make it hot in its place, well-prepared, with temperate heat, for the space of a Philosophical Month, keeping it six weeks and two days in the sweat of Sublimation until it begins to be putrefied, to ferment, to be coloured and to be congealed with its metallic humidity, and be fixed so far, that it do no more ascend in aery fumous substance, but remain fixed in the bottom, turned from what it was, and divested of all viscous humidity, putrefied and black, which is called the sable robe, Night, or the Head of the Crow. Continue therefore its decoction with a gentle fire, until all the black matter appearing in the superficies be quite dissipated by the Magistery, which blackness is by the Philosophers called the dark mantle of the Stone, which afterwards becoming clear is termed the cleansing water of the earth, or rather the Elixir. And note, that the blackness which appears is a sign of putrefaction. And the beginning of the dissolution is a sign of the conjunction of both natures. And this blackness appears sometimes in forty days, more or less, according to the quantity of the matter, and the industry of the operator, which contributes much to the separation of the said blackness. Now my Son, by the grace of God you are acquainted with one Element of our Stone, which is the black earth, the Raven's head, by some called the obscure shadow, upon which earth, as upon a base, all the rest is grounded. This terrestrial and dry Element, is called, Laton, the Bull, black dregs, our Metal, our Mercury.


Therefore since this mystery of Putrefaction is not more secret then necessary, so necessary that without it there is nothing can be done to purpose, that is to say, with profit; I shall be a little plain and full in the prosecution of this mystery: For in the knowledge of this consists all that is required to make a Philosopher. All the intentions of the Artist, must be only so to prepare and order things, that he may be sure of this terminus; and when he is there come, he is as sure a Master as if he had the Stone in his Cabinet. By the failing of this sign, the Operator is always to turn either backward to seek out some other principles, or forward, or to the right, or to the left; but when he is Master of this, he then can fail in nothing but in the Regimen of the outward heat.


"This first regimen has been studiously kept secret by all the Sages. They have spoken of the second regimen, or that of Saturn, as if it were the first, and have thus left the student without guidance in those operations which precede the appearance of that intense blackness. Count Bernard, of Trevisa, says, in his Parable, that When the King has come to the Fountain, he takes off the golden garment, gives it to Saturn, and enters the bath alone, afterwards receiving from Saturn a robe of black silk. But he does not tell us how long it takes to put off that golden robe; and thus, like all his brethren, leaves the poor beginner to grope in the dark during 40 or 50 days."


"Aphorism 83...There is no new generation made without a previous corruption."


"The matter should be gathered at the right time. This must be well preserved until putrefaction."




http://i.imgur.com/bUzPZHs.jpg
Posted by Andro nearly 10 years ago


How many here have achieved our true Blackness?

Andro
10-30-2016, 09:01 PM
Posted by Andro nearly 10 years ago

I only joined this forum 7 years ago :)

As for the above picture, I reckon there was way too much 'accidental' humidity ('phlegm' or 'waters of the flood/deluge') for the body to fully putrefy and be subsequently 'calcined' & 'sublimed' by means of its own 'water'.

Schmuldvich
10-31-2016, 12:36 AM
I was under the impression the image you posted was a successful putrefaction. Thank you for clarifying. Do you have any images or wisdom you would like to share regarding Putrefaction that you haven't shared already?





In my method/Xperience:

1. The white emerges later, after putrefaction/dark/black stage. Also red. Not theory.

2. Not all my matters putrefied 2 absolute black. Dew was best 4 black.

3. Seal flask tight = no blackness. Not theory.
Air brings death/decay & life as well. Fire of death & life is in air.
The air we breathe keeps us alive & slowly kills us @ the same time.
That's b/cause our body cannot cast off most superfluities found in air (& nourishment).
Hopefully Stone can change that to some extent ;)

4. If temp gentle, genie/more volatile parts stay in flask.

5. U want attractive & homogenized body of magnet, not the water from where it came.
If something hetero in magnet, magnet no good. Throw away hetero b4 expose magnet 2 Fire.

6. Fire then attracted 2 magnet body & incarnates inside.
Magnet must B very attractive. Good Magnet already has lots of Fire.
Add more Magnetic Water = Add more Fire.
Superfluous water slowly evaporates again. No need 4 it.

7. Repeat cycle until body of magnet supersaturated w/incarnated Fire.

8. Surely are other ways/matters also. Not monopole.

Andro
10-31-2016, 05:27 AM
Do you have any images or wisdom you would like to share regarding Putrefaction that you haven't shared already?

Not sure about 'wisdom', but too much water hinders the process, as does too much dryness. We want it to 'sweat', not to 'drown'. The 'sweat' is being cohobated/circulated upon its body, in gentle heat. The 'sweat' in this case would be a weak expression of the 'Acid' - active principle (Radical Humidity). We constantly loose our RH throughout our lives, 'cooking' at our own body temperature.

black
10-31-2016, 09:23 AM
If you do not pass through the blackness to the light...you will not be
able to read the emerald tablet.

It alludes me at the moment who might have suggested this...but it may
have been Dr Glauber.

Schmuldvich
11-04-2016, 03:53 AM
Not sure about 'wisdom', but too much water hinders the process, as does too much dryness. We want it to 'sweat', not to 'drown'. The 'sweat' is being cohobated/circulated upon its body, in gentle heat.

I appreciate you sharing, Adro.

It baffles me (well, honestly I guess it doesn't really...) that so many people FOR SO MANY YEARS can talk about Alchemy but very, very, very few actually start the Great Work and much, much, much fewer than that even start working down the right path to begin with!

I guess that is why so few pictures exist on the internet of legitimate Alchemical works. You would think that one could dig and at least find a couple pictures of one of the most forefront operations of our Magnum Opus...Putrefaction...but no such pictures exist. I originally thought Andro's preparation was a successful putrefaction, but I guess not; that means that to the best of my knowledge there is only one picture on the internet of our Putrefied starting matter, and that was originally posted on a private message board years ago....So that leaves me with the question: Do so few people know such little about Alchemy that they forsake this critically important early step? Maybe it's just because no one wants to post their Work publically.

Everyone has their reasons and I respect that.

I will ask though, being new here...has ANYONE here achieved our Blackness? Anyone at all, past members even?




If you do not pass through the blackness to the light...you will not be able to read the emerald tablet.

It alludes me at the moment who might have suggested this...but it may have been Dr Glauber.

Have you achieved our Blackness, black?

Awani
11-04-2016, 04:54 AM
...but very, very, very few actually start the Great Work and much, much, much fewer than that even start working down the right path to begin with...

...and the few who do start the Great Work, and the few who walk down the "right path" (as you say) never ever ever make the Stone. Pretty funny if you ask me.

:cool:

Andro
11-04-2016, 05:06 AM
...and the few who do start the Great Work, and the few who walk down the "right path" (as you say) never ever ever make the Stone.

How can anyone possibly KNOW this, except the silent ones who have crossed this threshold... Or the less silent ones who only introduce gentle guidance, without making bombastic claims?

(bombastic claims such as: "the right path")

Andro
11-04-2016, 05:23 AM
Everything can putrefy, including what you call 'our matter', by which I can only assume you refer to urine (correct me if I'm wrong). But urine is not 'our matter'. If anything, it can be a useful 'Materia Tertia', if one is inclined to work in this manner.

Also, if we're talking about Alchemical putrefaction (putrefaction of a body by means of its own 'water' OR the Universal 'water' OR an expression of it), it is different than the more 'common' variations. And if someone posted a picture somewhere, it doesn't really say much. Black color doesn't necessarily equal NNN.

Speaking of which, are you talking about a 'black pitch'-like mass (NNN)? If you have seen a picture of such, you should be able to tell if it's a genuine Alchemical putrefaction or not.


Maybe it's just because no one wants to post their Work publicly.

That's a fair assumption.

Awani
11-04-2016, 05:43 AM
How can anyone possibly KNOW this, except the silent ones who have crossed this threshold...

Or whistleblowers.

:cool:

Andro
11-04-2016, 06:02 AM
I would suggest that we all stay on the topic of putrefaction here, in the context of practical/lab alchemy (the stated intention of the OP), as there are already a few threads dealing with what alchemy is or isn't. People have strong views/opinions/sentiments on this matter, and as of late there is a general tendency to insert those views pretty much everywhere, and other threads/topics get side-tracked because of it. I'm doing this myself sometimes, and I will be more attentive in the future, so this is (also) a 'note to self' kind of thing :)

Aspects of Alchemy (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?3946-Aspects-of-Alchemy)

Is Spiritual Alchemy A Valid Path? (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4824-Is-Spiritual-Alchemy-A-Valid-Path)

The Grrreat Work (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4949-The-Great-Work)

black
11-04-2016, 08:09 AM
I would like to think that there are several members of this forum
that can putrefy to blackness in the vegetal work.

But it would appear that the blackness that we need is the one
that will open the gate allowing the celestial planets or metals
to present themselves in their due order.

The more I study, the more I realize how little I know about this
multispectral art.

If someone posted photos of the great work I probably
wouldn't understand what they meant.

Black paint in a flask may possibly look like the alchemic
blackness, so a photo can be very deceptive.

Perhaps the dialogue presented with the photo can tell so
much more about this blackness???

theFool
11-04-2016, 03:02 PM
..there is only one picture on the internet of our Putrefied starting matter.. Since almost no one knows what the starting matter is, I think the conclusion comes by itself that there are not any pictures of it in putrefaction.

True Initiate
11-04-2016, 03:51 PM
I would like to think that there are several members of this forum
that can putrefy to blackness in the vegetal work.


I think anyone can accomplish vegetable putrefaction. The bigger key to me is how to go from black stage to white stage and breed new life into a dead matter.

Schmuldvich
11-04-2016, 04:39 PM
Since almost no one knows what the starting matter is, I think the conclusion comes by itself that there are not any pictures of it in putrefaction.


http://i.imgur.com/7CKAIUj.jpg
Originally posted by Krisztian



Black paint in a flask may possibly look like the alchemic blackness, so a photo can be very deceptive. Perhaps the dialogue presented with the photo can tell so much more about this blackness???

YES! This is how to discern the false from the true.

It is through one's words and actions that their efforts can be analyzed and critiqued. Of course no picture that anyone posts will ever be undeniable proof of anything. Out of everyone here, the member of this forum Krisztian understands and knows more about Alchemy than probably 90% of this forum's members combined. For years on the internet he has demonstrated a sound comprehension of Alchemical principles, and he has even gone out of his way to nudge, prod, and push members in the right direction (very few of which ever heed his suggestions). Curiosity got the best of me so for many weeks I pulled up every piece of information I could find on this mysterious man. What I found really surprised me...I didn't realize how successful this man was in his outward life...or who he really was. Needless to say, Krisztian is an accomplished man who knows what he is talking about and is on the right path (though he has not successfully created the Philosopher's Stone yet). We can all learn things from members like Kristian.


There was another member full of valuable knowledge here. Somebody felt the need to ban him from this site, so he will never be able to answer any questions on this forum regarding his Work, but this is what he posted...



http://i.imgur.com/RHrAjCr.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/JV8WfDH.png
Originally posted by Chasm



My image is taken as is for a reason. I have many images of the crow. The blackest of black. This [top] picture comes after that yes, but how?


You can see three matters in the [top] image. The fourth, black matter is missing. It has been cut off.


These white salts are regenerated matter [in the bottom picture]. The common white ammoniacal salts are saturated with a yellow oil in this image. To be precise, these white salts are the second white salts which arrive after/during the fading black of blacks putrefaction.


The salts have basically turned into a white "grease" [in the bottom picture] as opposed to the black, opened and putrefied bituminous matter. The iris got me to thinking of the peacocks tail.


This [bottom] image is taken as the matter is exiting the black of blacks stage or the reign of Saturn. It signifies the triumph of antimony. Notice what is depicted as a "starry sky", the coating of the glass. Again, the circular iris are reminiscent of the caudal pavonis features.

The bottom image appears to be a picture taken post-Putrefaction. As you can see, the white salts have already started to separate from the black putrefied Matter below. The OP claims to have more pictures of Putrefaction too, so True Initiate, these pictures may be insight into going from blackness to whiteness and how to achieve our Separation.

Ghislain
11-04-2016, 08:12 PM
I think anyone can accomplish vegetable putrefaction. The bigger key to me is how to go from black stage to white stage and breed new life into a dead matter.

Could it be that if you burn organic material to ash and then steep it in water, filter the water and evaporate it you are left with the white salts.

These salts, potash, will breath new life into old soil.

Ghislain

Ghislain
11-04-2016, 08:19 PM
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fanitachowdry.files.wordpress.com% 2F2013%2F11%2Fannealed-brass-2.jpg&f=1
Source: (https://anitachowdry.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/heat-induced-colours-on-metals/)


Could the colours have something to do with temperature?

Ghislain

Schmuldvich
11-24-2016, 12:11 AM
Certainly temperature has something to do with Putrefaction. Even with those whom experiment upon diverse and random starting material, you would think some would have least attempted some kind of putrefaction.

Black, White, then Red is thoroughly ingrained into all of our subconsciouses here, is it not? Why are so few people focused on achieving our Putrefaction?

Salazius
11-24-2016, 12:42 PM
Blackness is an interaction of the Principles, as a Chaos. Or disequilibrated phase of arrangement of the elements. It is a medium phase between two equilibriums.

It is also sometimes seen as a paradoxical phase, because the Principles are almost in fusion, but not able to, and also in the state of separation, but not able to separate exactly and really.

A Turba. A Massa-Turba/tio or action to make something to get out.

Putrefactio has two major phases.

The first one is the peeling and removing the flesh/sulfur from the body (salt) and releasing the principles of the matter. This is the breaking down. Solve. Separatio.

Once the bones are cleaned from flesh, a new body can be construct upon it.

But, by conjunctioof Salt and Sulfur (Red King and White Queen, Sun and Moon), via the Mercury effect, there is a fusion of both, and generating a New Black. So, Conjunctio is the New Black.

There is several "blackness", and they all involve Mercury as responsible for this. He is the one that marries the Principles or make them divorce.

So, in its action, Mercury acts as Cupid or a Bishop, sometimes Venus, blessing, uniting, marrying and magnetizing the King & Queen. Or, as Death, or soldiers, with swords and scythe, cutting the link and separating them, spilling blood & putting into pieces the King's body.

All black are not the same, as all peacock also...

Schmuldvich
11-24-2016, 04:25 PM
Thanks, Salizius. I was hoping someone knowledgeable would eventually reply...

I follow your blog and have been reading your posts on this site for over 5 years now. You (and a very select few others here) seem to have a sound grasp on Alchemical principles and your posts display an actual understanding of Alchemy that parallels my own understanding. While I do love discussing Alchemy with those who have differing viewpoints, not very much comes out of it at the end of the day when everything is all said and done. It is refreshing to read a post, such as yours below, that shows a true comprehension and actual understanding of our Operations. I started this thread in hopes that those more knowledgeable and experienced than me would reveal their faces.



Blackness is an interaction of the Principles, as a Chaos. Or disequilibrated phase of arrangement of the elements. It is a medium phase between two equilibriums. It is also sometimes seen as a paradoxical phase, because the Principles are almost in fusion, but not able to, and also in the state of separation, but not able to separate exactly and really. A Turba. A Massa-Turba/tio or action to make something to get out.

YES!! Your description here is spot-on! I like how you say, "the Principles are almost in fusion, but not able to, and also in the state of separation, but not able to separate exactly and really." Fantastic depiction!



Putrefactio has two major phases.

The first one is the peeling and removing the flesh/sulfur from the body (salt) and releasing the principles of the matter. This is the breaking down. Solve. Separatio. Once the bones are cleaned from flesh, a new body can be construct upon it.

YES! This is the particular stage of Putrefaction I started this thread about--our initial Putrefaction. If you wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to hear more from out about this particular Stage of the Great Work. Surely Evaporation is a part of this stage. Everyone goes about this differently though. Some divide their Matter, some use overhead heat, some use heat under the vessel, etc. Can you describe this Process in more detail, Salazius?



But, by conjunctioof Salt and Sulfur (Red King and White Queen, Sun and Moon), via the Mercury effect, there is a fusion of both, and generating a New Black. So, Conjunctio is the New Black.

YES! I, too, refer to this stage as Conjunction. It is my understanding as well that at this stage, as you point out, we witness a new Blackness. This part is far from me though, and at this moment I have no experience under my belt to legitimately comment on this later Process. ...Although! We do know that there is a "less noble" way of working involving common gold. When following this "less noble" path, could this Stage be carried out sooner rather than later assuming one knows what his final objective is? Curious your thought on this.



There is several "blackness", and they all involve Mercury as responsible for this. He is the one that marries the Principles or make them divorce. So, in its action, Mercury acts as Cupid or a Bishop, sometimes Venus, blessing, uniting, marrying and magnetizing the King & Queen. Or, as Death, or soldiers, with swords and scythe, cutting the link and separating them, spilling blood & putting into pieces the King's body.

All black are not the same, as all peacock also...

YES! Here you bring up "Mercury", the most overused word of the Sages, haha. In this context I will assume you are referring to our middle substance, Mercury, that which acts as a magnet drawing the powers above to itself and the powers below to itself while residing in the middle of these two Extremes, being that you say this Mercury "marries the Principles or makes them divorce". Then you bring up Venus; and while our Venus could be referred to as Mercury (and commonly is), in this context you post I would be of the understanding that our Mercury here is liquid whereas our Venus here is solid. Do we agree? How would you describe "our Mercury" or "our Venus"?

z0 K
11-24-2016, 04:31 PM
Blackness is an interaction of the Principles, as a Chaos. Or disequilibrated phase of arrangement of the elements. It is a medium phase between two equilibriums.

It is also sometimes seen as a paradoxical phase, because the Principles are almost in fusion, but not able to, and also in the state of separation, but not able to separate exactly and really.

A Turba. A Massa-Turba/tio or action to make something to get out.

Putrefactio has two major phases.

The first one is the peeling and removing the flesh/sulfur from the body (salt) and releasing the principles of the matter. This is the breaking down. Solve. Separatio.

Once the bones are cleaned from flesh, a new body can be construct upon it.

But, by conjunctioof Salt and Sulfur (Red King and White Queen, Sun and Moon), via the Mercury effect, there is a fusion of both, and generating a New Black. So, Conjunctio is the New Black.

There is several "blackness", and they all involve Mercury as responsible for this. He is the one that marries the Principles or make them divorce.

So, in its action, Mercury acts as Cupid or a Bishop, sometimes Venus, blessing, uniting, marrying and magnetizing the King & Queen. Or, as Death, or soldiers, with swords and scythe, cutting the link and separating them, spilling blood & putting into pieces the King's body.

All black are not the same, as all peacock also...

Great insight and quotes, indeed all blacks are not the same. Dragon Scales are produced from dry putrefaction, a medium phase:-) Wet putrefaction is another way being knocked around on another thread mincing and rotting the matter:-) Thatís the long way:-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cFjxHEoBY&feature=youtu.be

Salazius
11-24-2016, 04:58 PM
@Schmuldvich

I'm glad this post could bring up some informations.


Surely Evaporation is a part of this stage. Everyone goes about this differently though. Can you describe this Process in more detail, Salazius?

Technique here is irrelevant since, depending of the matter and way, it will take different forms.
The process is just at first saturnian and then lunar, leading to whitness.


We do know that there is a "less noble" way of working involving common gold.
When following this "less noble" path, could this Stage be carried out sooner rather than later assuming one knows what his final objective is? Curious your thought on this.

I don't get you. There's no sooner or later.
Why less noble with gold ?


Then you bring up Venus; and while our Venus could be referred to as Mercury (and commonly is), in this context you post I would be of the understanding that our Mercury here is liquid whereas our Venus here is solid. Do we agree? How would you describe "our Mercury" or "our Venus"?

In the context of my post there is no such differentiation.
They are just illustration of the same principle.

Now, specifically, depending of the authors, depending of the context, the "Mercury" can be as Lunar Doves, Venussian Cupid, Mercurial Hermes with wings, or even Saturn with wings. Sometime also as Jupiter and his golden shower.

Some nomenclature are different pointing the same thing with a different name. We can't say Mercury is liquid or Venus solid. In a dry path it is solid in cold state and liquid in fusion.

Also, in Alchemy, there is no "wet or dry path". There's only fusion. That's how elements interact, in a "fused medium", whatever the temperature needed to fuse the medium.

Schmuldvich
11-24-2016, 05:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cFjxHEoBY&feature=youtu.be

So...What are we looking at, z0_K?




What are these "black scales of the alchemical dragon"?


http://i.imgur.com/E3FkiLr.jpg



What is this "frost of the dragon's breath"?


http://i.imgur.com/2t6rnEf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8PDcTMm.jpg



What is contained in the flask in the background? What is the yellow juice in the flask in the foreground?


http://i.imgur.com/EgOdkP9.jpg



Nice lab, man! Great to see you taking pictures and videos chonologicalizing your progress and discoveries. Thank you for sharing your work with us!




What was your starting matter?


http://i.imgur.com/8tf1JDc.jpg





http://i.imgur.com/0OL2fHs.jpg



What is this clear liquid in the receiver?


http://i.imgur.com/BFEiEil.jpg



Is this your matter drying out?


http://i.imgur.com/E6zs3Cc.jpg



I'm loving the 1080p video. Great quality!




What, in normal English, is this raw ruddy toad?


http://i.imgur.com/XpTqayx.jpg



What is this salt of the toad that your call first eagle?


http://i.imgur.com/ktVktvn.jpg



What is this dragon's blood you are showing us?


http://i.imgur.com/9VsDjsY.jpg



What is this alchemystic fire?


http://i.imgur.com/9C6JyMG.jpg



Also, why is it relevant that your matter dissolves in liquid (http://i.imgur.com/q6bRlz2.jpg)?

Schmuldvich
11-24-2016, 06:12 PM
@Schmuldvich

I'm glad this post could bring up some informations. Technique here is irrelevant since, depending of the matter and way, it will take different forms. The process is just at first saturnian and then lunar, leading to whiteness.

Always appreciate you sharing!

________________

Note: Off-topic continued here: Alchemical Paths (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4991-Alchemical-Paths-Wet-Dry-Long-Short-Rich-Poor-Noble-Ignoble)


--------------------------------------------

Kiorionis
11-24-2016, 07:35 PM
It is my understanding that there is a "Noble Way" that does not use common gold in the preparatory stages, and a "Less Noble Way" that involves the use of common gold as a means of shortening the length of time of some of our Operations.


In my mind, this is the different between trying to putrefy an impure substance ('Our Mercury' and common gold) and a pure substance ('Our Mercury' and 'Our Gold').

The putrefaction will take longer with an impure substance because there is more resistance to the putrefactive force.


Also, in Alchemy, there is no "wet or dry path". There's only fusion.

________________

Note: Off-topic continued here: Alchemical Paths (http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?4991-Alchemical-Paths-Wet-Dry-Long-Short-Rich-Poor-Noble-Ignoble)


--------------------------------------------

Schmuldvich
04-24-2017, 02:05 AM
Is anyone able to come forward and speak of how they achieved a successful putrefaction? ...Has anyone here at all achieved anything like the Ancients described as Putrefaction?

z0 K, can you talk any more about "our Toad" or the "Philosophical Matter" you showed us in your videos?

z0 K
04-24-2017, 04:33 PM
Is anyone able to come forward and speak of how they achieved a successful putrefaction? ...Has anyone here at all achieved anything like the Ancients described as Putrefaction?

z0 K, can you talk any more about "our Toad" or the "Philosophical Matter" you showed us in your videos?

There are two kinds of putrefaction wet and dry. Wet is when you chop up a fresh herb, seal it in a vessel in its own juices and leave it in a warm place for weeks; this is not the only wet putrefaction method. It produces a rotten putrid mess of foul humors and stinking spirits. Then you process it as best as you can according to your understanding. Dry is when you heat the herb in a closed system until the spirits rise above and the earth below is black.

The Quotes you provided in the first post on this thread are about dry putrefaction. The ones from Roger Bacon and Synesius provide the clearest description of the whole process. It is confusing and doesnít make much sense until you see the elements in the flask metamorphose in the dry putrefaction. After the volatile elements rise what is left in the flask is black basaltic earth.


Avicen saith, that heat causeth blackness first, in a moist body; then the humidity being consumed, it putteth off or loseth its blackness; and as the heat increaseth, or is continued, so it grows white. Lastly, by a more inward heat, it is calcined into ashes, as the philosophers teach. In the first decoction, which is called putrefaction, our stone is made all black, to wit, a black earth, by the drawing out of its humidity; and in that blackness, the whiteness is hidden.


...and make it hot in its place, well-prepared, with temperate heat, for the space of a Philosophical Month, keeping it six weeks and two days in the sweat of Sublimation until it begins to be putrefied, to ferment, to be coloured and to be congealed with its metallic humidity, and be fixed so far, that it do no more ascend in aery fumous substance, but remain fixed in the bottom, turned from what it was, and divested of all viscous humidity, putrefied and black, which is called the sable robe, Night, or the Head of the Crow. Continue therefore its decoction with a gentle fire, until all the black matter appearing in the superficies be quite dissipated by the Magistery, which blackness is by the Philosophers called the dark mantle of the Stone, which afterwards becoming clear is termed the cleansing water of the earth, or rather the Elixir. And note, that the blackness which appears is a sign of putrefaction. And the beginning of the dissolution is a sign of the conjunction of both natures. And this blackness appears sometimes in forty days, more or less, according to the quantity of the matter, and the industry of the operator, which contributes much to the separation of the said blackness.

The above quotes describe the matter that remains in the flask. The authors have taken the operations out of context to confuse those that have no experience in the lab. Different operations are conflated to confuse even more.


Book of Artephius, 1150
From the putrefaction therefore in this water, there first appears blackness, like unto broth wherein some bloody thing is boiled.

Artephius is describing the condition of the water received from the putrefaction. It is black broth with bloody coagulations of tar.

The Toad is the result when the elements of the putrefaction have been purified and combined. That is the mercurial waters and the fixed salts purified with the fire and air elements are combined and rectified several times. The elements received from the putrefaction are philosophical because Spiritus Mundi and Anima Mundi from the once living matter are entangled in the chaos of the putrefaction. Care must be taken to not lose them by excessive heat and bad seals in the system. This is one way of processing the philosophical elements.

The videos are to show the philosophical processing used in alchemical engineering. You will never see anything like that employing the usual spagyrical methods commonly taught these days. The protocols in the videos are the same for the work on metals. There are other methods that produce organic quintessence stones.

Dwellings
04-24-2017, 05:21 PM
Is anyone able to come forward and speak of how they achieved a successful putrefaction? ...Has anyone here at all achieved anything like the Ancients described as Putrefaction?

Alchemy as you know is an all or nothing proposition. Either you know it or you don't.
So, no need to worry about putrefaction. It is simply another rotation of the wheel.
Stop giving it much thought, rather focus on the overall process.

Schmuldvich
04-25-2017, 11:58 PM
Thank you for taking the time to respond, z0 K. Very insightful.

What would you say is the stage before Putrefaction?

What happens after Putrefaction?

Have you any insight into obtaining "our Alkahest"...a Liquor that dissolves metals like ice in hot water?



Alchemy as you know is an all or nothing proposition. Either you know it or you don't. So, no need to worry about putrefaction. It is simply another rotation of the wheel.
Stop giving it much thought, rather focus on the overall process.

As an aspiring Alchemist, how can you possibly say this?

Putrefaction is absolutely critical when preparing things Alchemically. Without it we toil in vain. Apparently not many people recognize this or want to believe it, because so very few focus on this fundamental aspect of the Art. Without Putrefaction there can be no Generation.

Without Putrefaction we achieve nothing. Through Putrefaction we accomplish everything.

Kiorionis
04-26-2017, 12:29 AM
Without Putrefaction we achieve nothing. Through Putrefaction we accomplish everything.

In my own opinion, incorrect. I would say:

Without 'proper preparation' we achieve nothing.
Through 'proper preparation' we achieve philosophic putrefaction.

This is why Dwellings, IMO states:


Alchemy as you know is an all or nothing proposition. Either you know it or you don't. So, no need to worry about putrefaction. It is simply another rotation of the wheel.
Stop giving it much thought, rather focus on the overall process.

I interpret this as: alchemy, as proposition, is not a Law or a Theory or even Correct. It is a Hypothesis. Either your experiments are based on this hypothesis or you've submitted to the theory. If you focus so much on putrefaction, and the theory of putrefaction, you are limiting yourself only to one variable in a very complex formula.

My own formula at this point in Time is: Preparation, Putrefaction, What-Comes-Next?

I currently do not care about the What-Comes-Next.

Dwellings
04-27-2017, 04:02 PM
As an aspiring Alchemist, how can you possibly say this?

Putrefaction is absolutely critical when preparing things Alchemically. Without it we toil in vain. Apparently not many people recognize this or want to believe it, because so very few focus on this fundamental aspect of the Art. Without Putrefaction there can be no Generation.

Without Putrefaction we achieve nothing. Through Putrefaction we accomplish everything.

There are 7 rotations of the wheel, indicating 7 planetary regimens. Putrefaction is the Regimen of Saturn. Nothing more, nothing less.

Adepts came up with their usual distration tactics and many unfortunately have fallen for it. My personal opinion is not to fall for it and try to understand "what, why and how" aspects of these 7 rotations

Luxus
04-27-2017, 05:17 PM
Not all wheels have the same number of spokes, I have seen 4 spoked wheels, 7 spoked wheels and 12 spoked wheels.